Lowest cost way to eliminate green hair, bubble, turf and slime algae

[SantaMonica]

Hmm. Not sure what you mean. Nobody reads more than a few forums, except maybe you.

 

As for periphyton, yes, it is the primary filtration of shallow reefs. That would include aquariums. See the studies in the link below.

[SantaMonica]

In case the dedicated post was missed:

 

Finally, DIY for people who have been wanting a hang-on-back algae scrubber: here are the plans for converting a Tetra EX-20 power filter to a HOB upflow scrubber!

 

 

 

 

Note: This very simple DIY version is not quiet. If made for a nano, it will probably be the loudest thing on your setup. It is made to be an easy DIY by not including extra steps which would make it more quiet, although it will get more quiet as it fills with growth. These optional steps for quieting will be mentioned but not shown. This simple DIY however does keep all the red light inside; none gets into the tank, or on the glass, and only very small red specks of red light are visible on the top.

 

First, here is the filter you need to buy:

 

 

 

 

Other power filters will work too, you will just need to change the shape of the wall in the next step.

 

Now, take out all the internal cartridge pieces; none of them are needed anymore. The green frame (which is meant to hold the filter bag) is already shaped to match the curve of the filter box, so we will trace it’s shape onto a thin piece of black styrene plastic that you can buy at any hobby or craft shop. The green frame has two halves; one of them is slightly larger than the other; use this larger one for tracing:

 

 

 

 

Now cut a flat section out of the curve; this will be at the bottom of the filter box, and will let water go under it (it is upside down here)…

 

 

 

 

Now apply your algae-attachment material. Any type of epoxy and aquarium gravel will work, but Devcon 30 Minute is available most places; and the whiter the gravel, the better, so that it reflects more light to the growth. You could also used roughed up plastic canvas:

 

 

 

 

Next you will need an air line clip, and a “T” connector; the one shown is a double clip (holds 2 hoses), but a single clip is good too:

 

 

 

 

 

Now rotate it so the curve is on the bottom, and epoxy the air line clip at the bottom:

 

 

 

 

Try putting the “T” connector into the air line clip, and see how it fits; then remove it:

 

 

 

 

To make installation easier, you can remove the power cord and water pump; this is not necessary, but makes it easier to set the filter box on your table:

 

 

 

 

Now for the hardest part: glue the plastic wall (with gravel or screen material) into the filter box. But first, test-fit the wall for a good fit, to make sure it has almost no gaps. Push the plastic wall up against the internal rails of the filter box. These are the rails that the green filter bag frame slides into; use the rail that is closest to the front of the filter box, and put the plastic wall on the front side of this rail. Note that the top of the plastic wall should be at the top of the other wall that is already in the filter box. If the fit it good, epoxy away!…

 

 

 

 

 

Now drill a hole about 3/8” (10mm) on the right side of the filter box, at the top, for the air tubing to go out; attach the “T” connector to the air line clip, and run the air tubing through the drilled hole. Note that the hole must go under the rim of the filter box, so that the top of the filter box can still snap on, and so that internal water splashing will be kept inside:

 

 

 

 

 

The pics show the hole on the right side, but you may want to put the hole on the left side instead, so that the tubing can go the same path as the filter power cord. Inside the filter box, the air tubing should go down first, to the bottom of the filter box, and then upwards to the hole. This way the tubing will not be in your way when you reach in for harvesting.

 

 

 

 

The LED that you use should be red, 660nm or maybe 630nm, and can be 1 watt or 3 watt. If your nutrients measure low or zero, use the 1 watt; if your nitrate is above 20, or phosphate above 0.2, then use 3 watt. Use a waterproof LED (very hard to find), or just dip a regular LED in epoxy:

 

 

 

 

To dip your own LED, first solder your wire to the LED. Then clean the solder flux off, using alcohol and a toothbrush; then clean again with fresh alcohol to get all residue off of the LED and the first 6” of wire. Then dip the LED and the first ½” of wire into clear epoxy such as Devcon 30 Minute, and let harden over night. Then dip again in new epoxy, but this time go further up the wire, about 2”. Let dry over night again. Now epoxy your LED into position so that it shines on the middle of the algae attachment surface.

 

ONLY OPERATE THE LED UNDER WATER. It will overheat and melt the filter box if you leave the LED on without water. You can turn the LED on for just a few seconds to make sure it works, but any longer than this needs to be underwater only. After the LED is in place and the wire routed through the hole in the side of the filter box, silicone the hole on the inside and outside, to keep the water inside when it is bubbling.

 

Now snap the lid on the filter box, and put the water pump back on, and it is ready to use! Like all algae scrubbers, start at 18 hours/day of light, but run the water pump 24/7. Also, if you don’t see some brown growth within a week or so, you may need to shade the LED so it is not too bright; this can be done with smaller pieces of black plastic put inside the filter box. And now, final pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Air bubbles will go up the LED-side of the plastic wall you put in, and water will go down and under the wall, so that no bubbles get out. Almost all red light will be blocked from getting into the aquarium because the black surfaces won’t reflect it. And harvesting (cleaning) is done simply and easily by just lifting the hinged lid; no need to take anything apart. Here is an overview video:

 

 

Variations: The first mods that you may want to consider are ones to make the scrubber more quiet. You can always try it as-is first, and add the mods later if needed. The way it currently is, the sound of the bubbles comes through the walls of the plastic filter box. Of course you can reduce air flow, such as at night if it’s near your bed, but the best results are always with more bubbles, not less. You could also use an aquarium airstone, which would make smaller bubbles and thus be more quiet, but an airstone will need periodic cleaning when it clogs with growth.

 

The first way to reduce the bubble sound is to thicken the walls by adding epoxy to them, or maybe, epoxy and gravel. To do this, you would coat the inside of the entire compartment with epoxy, and maybe even do so more than once. The thicker, the better (weight does not matter).

 

You could also try doing this to the lid, but you will need to make sure the lid can still fit. One way to try this is to use reef-putty: put a thin layer all over the bottom of the lid, then lay a sheet of plastic sandwich wrap over it, and press it into position on the filter box; when it is dry, pull the plastic wrap off and the putty will have taken the shape of the internal parts such as the water tube.

 

Next you could add some sound-absorbing material to the inside of the lid; this well help reduce sound from reflecting down through the water drain area into the aquarium. Black polyester felt, maybe 1/8” thick, glued to the bottom of the entire top part all the way to the end of the water path, will absorb a lot of the reflecting sound inside. Just make sure the lid fits before gluing anything in place.

 

Lastly you could try to seal the crack where the lid opens up. One way is to put some black silicone along the crack, and then lay a sheet of sandwich plastic wrap over the opening, and then close the lid. When the silicone dries, remove the plastic wrap and the lid should fit tight with no gaps.

 

The other variation might be a removable screen/wall: Instead of gluing the plastic wall in, just slide it in the slots where the green filter basket slid into. It probably would need to be a tight fit, because it may want to pop up on it’s own. With this removable screen/wall, you could remove just screen for cleaning, instead of the whole filter box. However you’d still need to take the whole filter box to the sink when you need to brush out the insides.

 

So, post your build and growth pics here, so we can all see how it is going!

 

[Tamberav]

SM,

 

have you seen people using the cheap chinese E27's on algae scrubbers? The seller says they will customize. I was thinking about switching the blue led for a warm white.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221383845540?var=520258111494

 

I want to make an algae scrubber for a back chamber for my cold water reef build but confused about appropriate lighting. It seems silly to spend $45 at rapid led to power 2 led's.

[SantaMonica]

Yes many people have used those; they work great as-is but are a bit focuesed. You certainly don't want white; leave the blues.

[SantaMonica]

Don't underestimate the power of a single LED:

 

"The algae still seems to be quite dark on the green grabber material but has grown a fluffy algae on the inside of the lid..." -- Centralscot.

 

 

[SantaMonica]

This example from 3Twinklets on the R2R site shows that if growth gets thick, it needs to be cleaned a day or two earlier, before it blocks light from the middle section which you can see here:

 

[SantaMonica]

Here are some scrubber results I collected:

"[scrubber] is working incredible well. Went from constant algae outbreaks (3-4 per year), to no algae at all. 10 yr old 250 gal reef tank, started developing blooms at year 7. Nothing else worked, even breakdown and rebuilds." -- Joe Lopez

"I recent removed bio-pellets, GFO, and trimmed off a lot of macro algae. Oh yeah, overfeeding now to try and bring up my phosphates. Since removing a bunch of nutrient exporting systems like bio-pellets, GFO, and a second algae scrubber, my [scrubber] has been growing nuts. It's been less then 7 days and I have to remove more. People are surprised when I open up the [scrubber] and show them what I pull out with one hand" -- ReeferEric on the R2R site. pics:

"I pull a handful out every week" -- Choff on the R2R site.

"Everything is working great, got two of them on my system" -- Kenneth Salomon

Dan Budz:

"The [scrubber] is working well" -- JT Powell

"All I can say about the [scrubber] is WoW. It completely wiped out my severe case of Cyano Bacteria in 4 weeks, it is working like a champ. I was a little skeptical that it would work at first because it's very compact, but I am completely amazed on how great it's working." -- John Quezada

"My [scrubber] is working great" -- Stefan Kolev

"Happy to report that the [scrubber] is growing lots of hair algae" -- Kidtango on the R2R site

"[scrubber] is growing thick and fast" -- Carl Knowles

"Boom... 7 days growth from my [scrubber]" -- rdevoe11, pic:

Other pics:

Matthew Coulthard:

Nicolay Oganesian:

Yuppy Suhandinata:

[SantaMonica]

Shade cloth:

All new scrubbers which use white growth surfaces should have a black cloth placed over some of the LEDs for the first week or two. Because the all-white interior reflects so much light, when it is new the light levels are way above the highest amount that can grow anything. Once growth starts, the white surfaces get covered with growth and the total light levels drop, and the cloth can be removed. Any cloth, stocking, or t-shirt can work; just don't melt the cloth with hot LEDs

This covering of the lights can be done by anyone, on any scrubber, even waterfalls. Waterfalls use plastic canvas which has more holes than material, and they are not in white compartments, so the light levels when new are not that high. But it still might help if a new screen stays completely empty or had bald spots.

The reason for a white colors, of course, is too allow more light to reach the base of the growth that does the attaching to the surfaces. As the growth gets thicker, the bottom layers will almost be in darkness, so the white surface doubles the light there by reflecting instead of absorbing the light.

Put the shade cloth about 2/3 or 3/4 over the lights; this way you can see which part grows better: the covered, or uncovered.

[SantaMonica]

Some more various growth pics, of what you might expect with upflow scrubbers:

[SantaMonica]

Scrubbers compared to refugiums

If you are starting a new tank, then the obvious difference is that a scrubber gives you the option of not having a fuge at all because an upflow scrubber can be placed on top of, in, or behind, the display. There are other uses for a sump/fuge of course, but we'll only cover the filtration concerns here.

A not-so-obvious difference is that a scrubber, if run together with a fuge with macros, will kill the macros even though the macros are much larger. This is because the scrubber thinks the macros are nuisance algae. Some people do run both together without killing the macros, but this is just because their scrubber is not strong enough, and actually the macros might even be slowing down the scrubber because the scrubber thinks it has to remove the macros, along with the nutrients in the water and the nuisance algae in the display. However if this works for them, good.

But assuming you have to decide on either a sump/fuge or a scrubber (not both)...

o Filtration with algae is proportional photosynthesis, which is proportional to Light X Air Water Turbulence Flow X Attachment. Meaning, stronger light grows more algae; stronger air/water interface turbulence grows more algae; and stronger attachment lets more algae grow without it detaching and floating away. A scrubber is thus designed to maximize Light, Flow, and Attachment.

o The main problem with macros in a refugium is the self-shading that the macros do. Any part of the macro which is not directly in front of the light at any moment is not filtering. And any macro inside of a "ball" of macro (like chaeto) is self-shaded all the time. Only the surface macro that is directly in front of the light is doing any real filtering. A scrubber is designed to have all the algae in front of the light at all times. Rotating the macro does not solve the problem, because the time that the macro is rotated away from the light is time that the macro is not filtering. This is why it takes a much larger size of chaeto to do the same filtering as a scrubber.

o Self-flow-blocking is another problem of macros in a refugium, for the same reason as light-blocking. And the thicker the "ball" of macro, the worse the flow-blocking.

o Particle trapping is another result of a ball of macro. These particles need to cycle back around to feed the corals, but instead they get trapped in the macro and they rot, and in doing so they block even more flow and light.

o With a scrubber, there is very little water standing in the way of the light. Also, the light is (or should be) very close to the scrubber... 4 inches (10cm) or less. The power of light varies with the inverse square of the distance, so going from 8" to 4" actually gives you 4X the power, not 2X. And the nutrient removal power of algae is proportional to the power of the light, because it's the photosynthesis that is doing the filtering.

o Rapid flow across the algae in a scrubber gives more delivery of nutrients, compared to the slow moving water in a fuge. Filtering is proportion to nutrient flow.

o The turbulence of water moving over the sections of algae in a scrubber help to remove the boundary layer of water around the algae. This boundary layer slows the transfer of metabolites in and out of the algae. There is no turbulence in a fuge (if there were, you'd have waves and bubbles). The interface between the air and water is what provides the most turbulence and boundary layer removal; there is no air/water interface in macros.

o Scrubbers do not let food particles settle like a refugium does; most particles flow right out of the scrubber.

o Scrubbers do not (if cleaned properly) release algal strands into display, like chaeto does.

o Scrubbers do not go sexual, like caulerpa can.

o Scrubbers do grow lots of pods; more than was previously thought, especially if not cleaned with freshwater.

o Scrubber don't, obviously, provide a place for snails and crabs, etc.

However, if you already have a sump with an empty compartment, and you don't mind using all of it and putting a light over it, then maybe it's easier and cheaper to try macros first.

[brandon429]

Can you link a thread where putting an ats inline killed someones macro I'm curious to see

 

Its amazing that the ats could out starve macro but not out starve itself

 

Edit for below

Of course none of the links were saved, you could tell I was expecting that in asking for them. I bet there's motivation now to produce at least one example far off from six years ago. But as a trend you can reference? Na. Nothing about a host applies whatsoever, that's just a sentence where a link should be. Try to find any recent full tank shots of caulerpa cures using ats then post if you can.

[SantaMonica]

I haven't saved any of those links, sorry.

 

Macro is more easily out-competed, because it does not have a coral host to swap and store nutrients with.

[SantaMonica]

Nano sized videos:

Saltwater reef pond:

Dirty freshwater tank:

First cleaning on dirty freshwater tank:

[SantaMonica]

Coming in 2016:

Waterfall algae scrubber

Version 2

After I invented the waterfall scrubber in 2008, it's great that so many people got to DIY it, and it's also great that lots of builders/sellers used it as their design up until the current day. It's had over 7 years to gather hobbyists.

2012 was a good year though, when I introduced the upflow scrubber. It's only had 3 years to gather hobbyists, but offers them what they did not have before: a compact place where they can put a scrubber that does not spill over when it fills up.

Now that the upflows are established, it's time to do some more work on the waterfalls. They've been unchanged since 2008, and almost every part of them can be improved. So over the next year or two I'll post up the improvements piece by piece. Hopefully the improvements will be useful to all.

The first improvement is one that can be done by nano folks. That's next.

[ajmckay]

You invented the waterfall algae scrubber? I can't verify if that's true or not but I think bold statements like that don't lend much credibility unless they're already commonly accepted as true. It may very well be true but without some sort of evidence a claim like that usually attracts more negative attention! Now I can say that you likely did come up with the design concept of the upflow scrubber (you have a patent) and I recognize that it's had a few improvements over time as well - such as with the substrate material.

 

Anyways, it's not my intention to drive this thread off topic so hopefully others can simply agree to either research the claim or ignore it and focus on ATS developments.

 

I've done a bit of research on waterfall and upflow scrubbers and I've even put together some designs (I'll post links when I find them). I'm glad to see some more innovation on the waterfall side though as it seems most of the new ideas center on small tweaks to make it easier to clean, etc... I would like to see developments in lighting, flow, and generally making them more compact while still being efficient. I honestly don't see waterfall scrubbers being utilized in display tanks, but it would also be a cool idea.

[brandon429]

For 2015 in retrospect of the last few years of ATS use I'd ask these questions.

 

1. What are some limitations of ATS systems regarding various algae fixes? Do ATS work always, sometimes...do they vary in ability to control DT invaders across users? wanted to know if some tanks/invasions just won't comply with this method for various reasons, or can a reevaluation/sizing of the system make all algae challenges comply?

 

2. I have some valonia challenge tanks that are not getting helped by other means, would you be willing to guide the fixes on some tanks right here if they'd like to post before shots?

 

 

 

ATS has literally thousands of active users for a long time, agreed

with each system of care the ability to break down pros and cons increases legitimacy tenfold, wondering what limitations you currently see in the approach as a whole

[smeagol108]

can the drop versions of this product be put into a HOB filter? such as an ac70?

 

 

Coming in 2016:

Waterfall algae scrubber

Version 2

After I invented the waterfall scrubber in 2008, it's great that so many people got to DIY it, and it's also great that lots of builders/sellers used it as their design up until the current day. It's had over 7 years to gather hobbyists.

2012 was a good year though, when I introduced the upflow scrubber. It's only had 3 years to gather hobbyists, but offers them what they did not have before: a compact place where they can put a scrubber that does not spill over when it fills up.

Now that the upflows are established, it's time to do some more work on the waterfalls. They've been unchanged since 2008, and almost every part of them can be improved. So over the next year or two I'll post up the improvements piece by piece. Hopefully the improvements will be useful to all.

The first improvement is one that can be done by nano folks. That's next.

 

[SantaMonica]

My notifications seemed not to be turned on. Anyway...

invented the waterfall

Yes on other forums you will find the first post in August 2008, and it includes a removeable growth compartment. Really easy to DIY.

I would like to see developments in lighting, flow, and generally making them more compact while still being efficient

Yes these will be coming; also easy to DIY.. maybe easier that a sloted pipe.

What are some limitations of ATS systems regarding various algae fixes? Do ATS work always, sometimes...do they vary in ability to control DT invaders across users? wanted to know if some tanks/invasions just won't comply with this method for various reasons, or can a reevaluation/sizing of the system make all algae challenges comply?

A scrubber will alway remove nutrients. The question is how fast. It must be faster that the food you feed, or else nutrients will build up and be absorbed by nuisance algae.

Dino's and diatoms area easy to remove. GHA takes longer. Bryopsis, bubble, and cyano take the longest because they have alternate survival techniqes. But if nutrients are not there, they will evenually all go.

I have some valonia challenge tanks that are not getting helped by other means, would you be willing to guide the fixes on some tanks right here if they'd like to post before shots?

Certainly, but bubble is the hardest like I stated. You can speed up the long process with well known manual removal techniques.

wondering what limitations you currently see in the approach as a whole

The limitations are space and cost. Chemically they are great, and exactly the way reefs operate.

can the drop versions of this product be put into a HOB filter

Yes drop-in upflow versions can go anywhere they fit.

[Hammerstone]

Why is your water so yellow that it looks like urine?

what are we looking at? Is that your tank? I might not have TOTM tanks but my water is pristinely clear.

[HecticDialectics]

what are we looking at? Is that your tank? I might not have TOTM tanks but my water is pristinely clear.

Wat?

 

Why are you quoting a post from 4 years ago like it was directed at you?

[olemanwinter]

I think I'm going to give an upflow scrubber a shot. I don't quite have the room for a gfo reactor in my AIO compartment so I've got to choose between bagged GFO or a small upflow scrubber....or both.

 

Is Amazon the best place to get one of these cheaply if I don't want to DIY?

[Hammerstone]

Wat?

 

Why are you quoting a post from 4 years ago like it was directed at you?

my mistake, o didn't know it wasn't current. I dodnt mean any harm.

[SantaMonica]

Trevor Janvier in Canada is having fun with his upflow version: "20 days... that's pretty wicked growth, and it seems like my glass algae has lessened. The first picture is 6 weeks ago the next is 4 weeks ago, and last are today, all are 2 weeks intervals with 24 hour lights. phosphate is between .06-.19 and I only clean the glass about once every two weeks and it takes only a min or two. best thing I have bought for my tank"

[ReeferReefer]

I don't doubt that Turf Scrubbers work but the way you guys write sounds like a bad infomercial. Just talk like a normal human being. Everything these guys write sets off scam alarms in my head.

Honestly just the way you present this with straight copy and paste is so gimmicky. And this is coming from someone who is impressed by your products. I dont doubt your medications since DIY is so easy but still... Feels like a pushy used car salesman

[brandon429]

I have a request to change the way you market this Santa Monica

 

If we sample 100 pictures from this thread and the ones from around the web, the vast majority by 90% are pics of algae mats by you linked from other threads and not display tanks being corrected. They're in there, but at the rate of 10% of all pics (user submitted dt pics in the actual thread per forum, not ones you brought in)

 

that's like our peroxide dosers showing only pics of peroxide bottles post after post after post and then occasionally a tank correction.

 

I wish you'd flip that. Be able to show 10% algae mats, since 100% of attempts will result in an algae mat and never fail to do that, and 90% display tanks *before and afters* for the very invaders you are claiming this fixes.

 

Algae turf systems have been around so long in one form or another those pics do exist, the method is legit among methods. Your $$ are coming from people who want to fix a DT issue, not just have a wad of green somewhere in the tank and I think user submitted pics, not ones you collect and link around, should be the basis of your claims and what keeps kicking the threads up. currently posts from you about wads of algae keep the threads kicked up or they stay down a long time. there is not any time that shining bright lights in a concentrated area wont grow an algae mat, not one instance so Id like to see examples that involve 90% display tanks and a total shift away from the last 8 yrs of you marketing nearly exclusively off algae mat pics alone

 

 

also, I wish you'd never cut and past the lengthy thing about periphyton, write something new. im posting here because of you putting that in our big peroxide threads every 2 yrs, the exact same paragraph, I feel its an attempt to get your for-profit signature link buried among a high view count thread, going only off the constant cut and pasting with no new wording. I would never post on your threads without that initial invite.