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Emerald crab died withing minutes of putting him in


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#1
capt_noonie

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Hello all. This is my first post, after doing some searching did not find anything like my situation. I got a Nano cube 28g late Feb. My water tested fine a few weeks ago so yesterday me and the bf went to buy some livestock. One emerald crab, two small hermits, one shrimp (forgot the name, but he's not the peppermint one), two small snails (again forgot the name but they have these small "elephant trunk" type things up front), and one sand star. We dropped off the bags in the tank but could not get home to open up the bags to put them in the tank till about 3 hrs later.

The emerald floated to the back of the tank turned himself upside down and started having spasms. We flipped him back over, and he clung to a rock, then a few minutes later walked back towards the back of the tank and didn't move. The next morning he was still in the exact same position, so I knew he was dead. In fact we watched him die last night.

Also this morning the two hermits were also dead, their shells empty. We did find one body on the complete opposite side of the tank. Did not find the other body.

Snails, star, and shrimp seem fine. Water temp is 82, is that too high? Retested water this morning, all is exactly the same except ph is now 8.0 instead of 8.2

Also the emerald was white, not green, but was like that in the shop, as was his tankmate.
I am a nano noob. Thank you all for your help. =)

#2
matt20

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Hello all. This is my first post, after doing some searching did not find anything like my situation. I got a Nano cube 28g late Feb. My water tested fine a few weeks ago so yesterday me and the bf went to buy some livestock. One emerald crab, two small hermits, one shrimp (forgot the name, but he's not the peppermint one), two small snails (again forgot the name but they have these small "elephant trunk" type things up front), and one sand star. We dropped off the bags in the tank but could not get home to open up the bags to put them in the tank till about 3 hrs later.

The emerald floated to the back of the tank turned himself upside down and started having spasms. We flipped him back over, and he clung to a rock, then a few minutes later walked back towards the back of the tank and didn't move. The next morning he was still in the exact same position, so I knew he was dead. In fact we watched him die last night.

Also this morning the two hermits were also dead, their shells empty. We did find one body on the complete opposite side of the tank. Did not find the other body.

Snails, star, and shrimp seem fine. Water temp is 82, is that too high? Retested water this morning, all is exactly the same except ph is now 8.0 instead of 8.2

Also the emerald was white, not green, but was like that in the shop, as was his tankmate.


I have found that hermits and other crabs tend to be less forgiving to rapid changes in salinity than other inverts. How did you acclimate everything? Did you just dump everything in after letting the temperature equalize? If the water at your LFS has a different salinity than that of your tank, and you acclimated your crabs too quickly or just dumped them in the tank, then they would likely die due to salinity shock.

Edit: also, 82 degrees might be a little high. It's really personal preference though, up to a certain point. I like to keep my temp at 78F. It doesn't fluctuate much from that.

Edited by matt20, 02 April 2012 - 12:50 PM.


#3
GTi

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Hello all. This is my first post, after doing some searching did not find anything like my situation. I got a Nano cube 28g late Feb. My water tested fine a few weeks ago so yesterday me and the bf went to buy some livestock. One emerald crab, two small hermits, one shrimp (forgot the name, but he's not the peppermint one), two small snails (again forgot the name but they have these small "elephant trunk" type things up front), and one sand star. We dropped off the bags in the tank but could not get home to open up the bags to put them in the tank till about 3 hrs later.

The emerald floated to the back of the tank turned himself upside down and started having spasms. We flipped him back over, and he clung to a rock, then a few minutes later walked back towards the back of the tank and didn't move. The next morning he was still in the exact same position, so I knew he was dead. In fact we watched him die last night.

Also this morning the two hermits were also dead, their shells empty. We did find one body on the complete opposite side of the tank. Did not find the other body.

Snails, star, and shrimp seem fine. Water temp is 82, is that too high? Retested water this morning, all is exactly the same except ph is now 8.0 instead of 8.2

Also the emerald was white, not green, but was like that in the shop, as was his tankmate.

Did you drip acclimate as well as temperature acclimate? i think most people run their tanks around 78 degrees.

#4
louy99

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what are your water parameters? nitrates? nitrites? phosphates? ammonia? did you acclimate them in the tank slowly?

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#5
bio14guy

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Did you drip acclimate as well as temperature acclimate? i think most people run their tanks around 78 degrees.


The crab may have molted its shell if it was whitish and not green. Give it a few days and he my turn up again. As for your tank it is a bit hot. I would try to bring it down to 76.

#6
altolamprologus

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Sounds like they died from salinity shock. Google drip acclimation and do that from now on. Also test all your water params and post them here. Your snails are nassarius snails and you need to return the sand sifting star before it starves to death.

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

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#7
capt_noonie

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The crab may have molted its shell if it was whitish and not green. Give it a few days and he my turn up again. As for your tank it is a bit hot. I would try to bring it down to 76.

There were two emeralds at the shop. There was also one molted shell, if not a dead one. the guy said it was just a shell when I told him there was a dead one in the tank. However, I know he did not molt, as I watched him dying on his back with his arms flailing about. =(


Thank you to all who replied. I will turn the heater down to 78. Also did not think about drip acclimation until this morning. Haven't kept fish of any kind for quite some years. =/
I am a nano noob. Thank you all for your help. =)

#8
capt_noonie

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Oh also, the ph was 8.2 before we bought the livestock. This morning I retested and it was 8.0. Ammonia, nitrate were 0, nitrite was very low, but I forgot the actual number, notes are at home (it was the second to the lowest reading) so I am thinking you guys are right, salinity shock.

Also, sand star will starve to death? Should I not be trusting what my LFS is telling me?
I am a nano noob. Thank you all for your help. =)

#9
altolamprologus

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Oh also, the ph was 8.2 before we bought the livestock. This morning I retested and it was 8.0. Ammonia, nitrate were 0, nitrite was very low, but I forgot the actual number, notes are at home (it was the second to the lowest reading) so I am thinking you guys are right, salinity shock.

Also, sand star will starve to death? Should I not be trusting what my LFS is telling me?

The lower pH reading is likely just from dissolved organic acids from the dead organisms and it should go back to normal with your next water change.

Yes, the star will starve to death. The generally accepted minimum tank requirement is 100 gallons per star. They only eat microfauna in the sand and need a very large, very mature tank to survive.

You shouldn't necessarily distrust your LFS, but take everything they say with a grain of salt. Many LFS employees will tell you whatever they need to to make a sale. Sometimes they are simply misinformed and pass on bad information. The people on online forums are constantly being exposed to new fish keeping techniques and a vast supply of information so in general they are better informed. Before you buy anything, you should always go home and do some research first. Impulse buys are always a bad idea.

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

29 gallon reef; 20 gallon angler lagoon

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#10
tiggs

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Hello all. This is my first post, after doing some searching did not find anything like my situation. I got a Nano cube 28g late Feb. My water tested fine a few weeks ago so yesterday me and the bf went to buy some livestock. One emerald crab, two small hermits, one shrimp (forgot the name, but he's not the peppermint one), two small snails (again forgot the name but they have these small "elephant trunk" type things up front), and one sand star. We dropped off the bags in the tank but could not get home to open up the bags to put them in the tank till about 3 hrs later.

The emerald floated to the back of the tank turned himself upside down and started having spasms. We flipped him back over, and he clung to a rock, then a few minutes later walked back towards the back of the tank and didn't move. The next morning he was still in the exact same position, so I knew he was dead. In fact we watched him die last night.

Also this morning the two hermits were also dead, their shells empty. We did find one body on the complete opposite side of the tank. Did not find the other body.

Snails, star, and shrimp seem fine. Water temp is 82, is that too high? Retested water this morning, all is exactly the same except ph is now 8.0 instead of 8.2

Also the emerald was white, not green, but was like that in the shop, as was his tankmate.


As others have said, drip acclimation is the way to go. Also, you never want to let anything float for 3 hours, especially if the lights are on. Remember, there's not much water in the bags, so being that close to your lights will heat it up rather quickly.

#11
capt_noonie

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As others have said, drip acclimation is the way to go. Also, you never want to let anything float for 3 hours, especially if the lights are on. Remember, there's not much water in the bags, so being that close to your lights will heat it up rather quickly.

I knew 3 hrs was too long, but could not get away from work to get home. =/ Thankfully the lights were not on. The lid was also open. Everyone seemed fine and feisty going in...

The lower pH reading is likely just from dissolved organic acids from the dead organisms and it should go back to normal with your next water change.

Yes, the star will starve to death. The generally accepted minimum tank requirement is 100 gallons per star. They only eat microfauna in the sand and need a very large, very mature tank to survive.

You shouldn't necessarily distrust your LFS, but take everything they say with a grain of salt. Many LFS employees will tell you whatever they need to to make a sale. Sometimes they are simply misinformed and pass on bad information. The people on online forums are constantly being exposed to new fish keeping techniques and a vast supply of information so in general they are better informed. Before you buy anything, you should always go home and do some research first. Impulse buys are always a bad idea.


The star was totally an impulse buy. I watched him (if not exactly him, but another sand star) a few weeks ago at the shop and he was moving so quickly across the tank with a hermit crab riding piggy back. I wanted to get him for sure. I also want to get an urchin. Good thing there was none there as I might have picked him up too.

I should probably go check out another shop, huh? Hate to think I can't really trust my shop, the owner is so nice and he has a lot of regular customers, always busy.

So my hermits probably met the same demise, though not as dramatically. How did one of their bodies end up on the other side of the tank? Do you think one of the other critters pulled them out? The snails?

And I've been using Purple Up, though not every day, should I be?
I am a nano noob. Thank you all for your help. =)

#12
Yves17

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FOR ME <--- That's weird because hermit crabs are pretty hard to me. I do 15 mins of acclimation for them I have 2 next time you know what to do =)

#13
capt_noonie

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I've just been reading other threads saying just that, hermits are hardly. They were tiny little guys though.

Another thought. I bought my water from the same shop. I would assume they use the same water for their tanks. So wouldn't the salinity be the same if not similar? Well on second thought, after I typed that, there is more evaporation in my tank huh since it's smaller.

*sigh
I am a nano noob. Thank you all for your help. =)

#14
matt20

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Oh also, the ph was 8.2 before we bought the livestock. This morning I retested and it was 8.0. Ammonia, nitrate were 0, nitrite was very low, but I forgot the actual number, notes are at home (it was the second to the lowest reading) so I am thinking you guys are right, salinity shock.

Also, sand star will starve to death? Should I not be trusting what my LFS is telling me?


Just thought I'd mention that it's normal for ph to change slightly throughout the day. Anything that photosynthesizes in your tank will suck up co2 during the day, raising your ph. At night, the same organisms will release co2, which will lower your ph. So when you test o
Ph first thing in the morning it will be a bit low

#15
capt_noonie

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Bf went to the LFS and told the owner what happened. He said temp was fine at 83, and that 85 would be too high. But all you guys said 78, so I will lower to 80. He also got this powder to put in the stabilize the ph. He did say that leaving them in the bag for 3 hrs was totally too long, I know, but just couldn't get home from work. Also found out that we were not leaving the light on long enough. We thought a room with bright light during the day would be enough since we don't have corals yet.

I did check on the shrimp, star, and snails, and they seem to be fine. The shrimp seems to be happy, bouncing around like he did the in the shop. Star keeps burying and unburying himself. Not moving like the one I had seen in the shop. Most likely not the same one as bf said there was a LOT of new stuff in since yesterday. This shop is always busy!

Here's vid I took of the shrimp when I went to check on him.
vid of the cleaner shrimp, looks happy!
I am a nano noob. Thank you all for your help. =)

#16
altolamprologus

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Bf went to the LFS and told the owner what happened. He said temp was fine at 83, and that 85 would be too high. But all you guys said 78, so I will lower to 80. He also got this powder to put in the stabilize the ph. He did say that leaving them in the bag for 3 hrs was totally too long, I know, but just couldn't get home from work. Also found out that we were not leaving the light on long enough. We thought a room with bright light during the day would be enough since we don't have corals yet.

I did check on the shrimp, star, and snails, and they seem to be fine. The shrimp seems to be happy, bouncing around like he did the in the shop. Star keeps burying and unburying himself. Not moving like the one I had seen in the shop. Most likely not the same one as bf said there was a LOT of new stuff in since yesterday. This shop is always busy!

Here's vid I took of the shrimp when I went to check on him.
vid of the cleaner shrimp, looks happy!

Return the powder before you open it. All it will do is raise your alk, causing a temporary pH swing. Your pH is fine and will go back to normal after the organic acids dissipate as I said before.

You don't need a light. The fish don't know the difference between a cloudy day and the lights not being on.

The star is probably the same one, it's just still acclimating to it's surroundings and is probably astounded at the complete lack of food (hint hint-you should have returned it while you were there)

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

29 gallon reef; 20 gallon angler lagoon

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#17
Chrisl1976

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Contrary to what has been said, Drip acclimation is not recommended from ReefCleaner.org which sells hundred of snails and crabs. I just ordered a CUC and 2 emerald crabs and these are their instruction for release:

Acclimation (All Animals)-

1. Float the bag in your tank to get the snail used to the temperature in your aquarium.

2. Wait 15 minutes.

3. Add contents to tank.

You may find this to be different than the acclimation procedure you are used to carrying out. The reason we now ask our customers to use this procedure is because our snails and crabs live intertidally, and can handle drastic swings in ph/salinity without a problem. However, what they can't handle is toxic levels of ammonia. During the shipping process, ammonia levels in the shipping bags build, while the ph level goes down. As the ph goes down the toxicity of ammonia also goes down. However, when your tank water with normal ph is introduced to the shipping bags, and the ph rises, so does the toxicity of the ammonia, and you will be poisoning the livestock. Please don't do this. Any other method of acclimation voids the Alive Arrival Guarantee. If you are a pro and know how to deal with these issues with ammonia neutralizing drips that may be a good idea for urchins, porcelains and true crabs. (If you are however unsure how to carry out this acclimation procedure please do not practice it with our livestock)

Just a JBJ 28CF on its way to looking wonderful.


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#18
altolamprologus

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Contrary to what has been said, Drip acclimation is not recommended from ReefCleaner.org which sells hundred of snails and crabs. I just ordered a CUC and 2 emerald crabs and these are their instruction for release:

Acclimation (All Animals)-

1. Float the bag in your tank to get the snail used to the temperature in your aquarium.

2. Wait 15 minutes.

3. Add contents to tank.

You may find this to be different than the acclimation procedure you are used to carrying out. The reason we now ask our customers to use this procedure is because our snails and crabs live intertidally, and can handle drastic swings in ph/salinity without a problem. However, what they can't handle is toxic levels of ammonia. During the shipping process, ammonia levels in the shipping bags build, while the ph level goes down. As the ph goes down the toxicity of ammonia also goes down. However, when your tank water with normal ph is introduced to the shipping bags, and the ph rises, so does the toxicity of the ammonia, and you will be poisoning the livestock. Please don't do this. Any other method of acclimation voids the Alive Arrival Guarantee. If you are a pro and know how to deal with these issues with ammonia neutralizing drips that may be a good idea for urchins, porcelains and true crabs. (If you are however unsure how to carry out this acclimation procedure please do not practice it with our livestock)

It only works for intertidal organisms. Non-intertidal organisms die when thrown into the tank like that, as shown by OP's experience.

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

29 gallon reef; 20 gallon angler lagoon

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#19
Chrisl1976

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It only works for intertidal organisms. Non-intertidal organisms die when thrown into the tank like that, as shown by OP's experience.



Last I checked, Emerald crabs are an intertidal species. I dropped my two in last week exactly per instructed and they both are fine.

Just a JBJ 28CF on its way to looking wonderful.


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#20
altolamprologus

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Last I checked, Emerald crabs are an intertidal species. I dropped my two in last week exactly per instructed and they both are fine.

Maybe the param difference was just too much then?

edit: Although it does say true crabs should be drip acclimated

Edited by altolamprologus, 02 April 2012 - 08:30 PM.

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

29 gallon reef; 20 gallon angler lagoon

Posted Image


#21
ChefReef

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you should really return the Sand star. it will die... and please do research before impulse buying.

also i usually just drop my snails and crabs right in the tank. shrimp and other things like that always drip them

#22
capt_noonie

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Maybe the param difference was just too much then?

edit: Although it does say true crabs should be drip acclimated


I don't know if emerald crabs specifically are intertidal, but apparently something did;nt bode well with him nor the hermits. Obviously at this point it must have been the salinity levels. My bad for leaving all the critters in their bags for 3 hours. =(

I will talk to the shop's owner about returning the star. I do like him so much though. Is there ANY type of star that will work in a small tank environment?

you should really return the Sand star. it will die... and please do research before impulse buying.

also i usually just drop my snails and crabs right in the tank. shrimp and other things like that always drip them


The funny thing is I am an active member of a yorkie forum, and the first piece of advice we give noobs is DO YOUR RESEARCH! Ironic isn't it that I should have heeded my own advice. It is still a living creature. I have much to learn =/
I am a nano noob. Thank you all for your help. =)

#23
Chrisl1976

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I don't know if emerald crabs specifically are intertidal, but apparently something did;nt bode well with him nor the hermits.


Emerald crabs live in the rubble rock zones typically 1-10' of depth.

Just a JBJ 28CF on its way to looking wonderful.


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#24
ChefReef

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I will talk to the shop's owner about returning the star. I do like him so much though. Is there ANY type of star that will work in a small tank environment?



sadly none that i know of.

#25
HVani

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I would get a serpent star. I have 3 in my 25 gallon. It will eventually be too small for all of them but they seem to grow kind of slow. Very neat critters.

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