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Sump& Plumbing design for shallow 18g


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#1
ccapasso

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Officially coming down the home stretch on my shallow tank design/concept and am looking for help on a sump design.

I know this post is a bit lengthy, and I apologize, but I want to make sure I get this all worked out before I move forward.

The display tank will be 36x12x10 (approx 18g). This will be setup an my office at work, so I need it to be as quite as possible. I don't have a cabinet for the sump to sit in so it would have to sit on the carpet under the table that will hold the tank. Any problems with doing this?

As far as sump design, I was thinking a 10g sump would work. Does that sound accurate?

The next thing I need help with is the pump:

From what I've read, I believe you are suppose to turn the total system volume over 5x per hour. That being the case, I believe I would need a pump that is rated for over 140gph ([18g+10g]*5). I know the 10g sump won't be completely filled, but if I account for it I should be OK with a 140gph pump right?

The last thing I need help with is the plumbing:

I'm going to be honest and say that I know nothing about plumbing, lol. I know that my desk/table that the tank will sit on is about 3ft high. Knowing that, and everything above, what size PVC pipe should I use? Also, what size bulkheads?

I was planning on using an overflow kit from glass-holes. I was thinking either the nano overflow kit or the Super Nano con Dientes. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for any and all help. It truly is appreciated.

#2
Ichiban

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im in the same boat as you.. looking for a sump plan for my 60-f ada tank

planning to use a 10 gallon sump as well haha
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#3
ccapasso

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im in the same boat as you.. looking for a sump plan for my 60-f ada tank

planning to use a 10 gallon sump as well haha



Here's hoping for some assistance B)

#4
jestep

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How high is the tank off the ground. Even a 300GPH pump will be reduced a lot depending on how far the sump is below the tank. Check the pump curve charts to see what the flow will be.

A 10 gallon should be plenty. If you don't have a cabinet, you may want to try to make more of a display refugium since it is going to be visible.

The overflow is where it gets tricky. The glass holes kits work, but they are very difficult to keep silent. This is one of those fluid dynamics rules that makes an overflow sound like a toilet every few seconds. You basically need to run them at about 30% of their rated flow, if vented, for silent operation. This flow rate allows for a laminar flow pattern that basically travels down the walls of the tube with a channel of air in the center. When you increase the flow the air channel collapses and you get a toilet sound.

The other option is to run an overflow at a full siphon, which is also silent, but this requires at least 2 overflows to do properly. The primary overflow runs at full siphon, the higher one vented, and you run a pump that just surpasses the flow rate of the full siphon. The problem with this is that 1" PVC will pull much more than 1000gph at full siphon.

Personally, I would make a glass overflow and drill the tank. You have more options for getting what you want and they tend to look better.

Edited by jestep, 03 April 2012 - 04:56 AM.


#5
ccapasso

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How high is the tank off the ground. Even a 300GPH pump will be reduced a lot depending on how far the sump is below the tank. Check the pump curve charts to see what the flow will be.

A 10 gallon should be plenty. If you don't have a cabinet, you may want to try to make more of a display refugium since it is going to be visible.

The overflow is where it gets tricky. The glass holes kits work, but they are very difficult to keep silent. This is one of those fluid dynamics rules that makes an overflow sound like a toilet every few seconds. You basically need to run them at about 30% of their rated flow, if vented, for silent operation.

The other option is to run an overflow at a full siphon, which is also silent, but this requires at least 2 overflows to do properly. The primary overflow runs at full siphon, the higher one vented, and you run a pump that just surpasses the flow rate of the full siphon. The problem with this is that 1" PVC will pull much more than 1000gph at full siphon.

Personally, I would make a glass overflow and drill the tank. You have more options for getting what you want and they tend to look better.


Thanks a lot of the response!

The display tank will sit on the table/desk, which is approx 3ft off the ground.

Thanks for the tip on making it a display refugium. I was thinking about keeping it as clean as possible since it is indeed going to be visible.

As for the overflow, I'm a little confused. I understand they can be noisy so I've done some reading. Something I read suggested a "Herbie" method. I assume I can do this with the glass-holes kit?

The part that I'm confused on is why a glass overflow and drill the tank? I was planning on having the display tank drilled an the overflow in it. Could you explain a bit more on what you suggested please?

#6
jestep

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You would use 4 pieces of glass and silicon to create the overflow instead of the black acrylic box. It's a matter of preference more than anything. What I'm describing is a herbie type setup. A herbie requires 2 drains minimum for redundancy and silence.

#7
ccapasso

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Thanks jestep!

That is what I thought you meant but wanted to make sure.

Technically I could do a herbie type setup using the glass-holes super nano con dientes if there is enough space to drill two holes right?

#8
Ichiban

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love it!!!!!!!! more info please! haha
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#9
ccapasso

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Put something together in Paint just now. Not great quality but you get the general layout.

Posted Image

Attached Thumbnails

  • shallow_layout.png

Edited by ccapasso, 04 April 2012 - 12:45 PM.


#10
andrewguilfoy

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How high is the tank off the ground. Even a 300GPH pump will be reduced a lot depending on how far the sump is below the tank. Check the pump curve charts to see what the flow will be.

A 10 gallon should be plenty. If you don't have a cabinet, you may want to try to make more of a display refugium since it is going to be visible.

The overflow is where it gets tricky. The glass holes kits work, but they are very difficult to keep silent. This is one of those fluid dynamics rules that makes an overflow sound like a toilet every few seconds. You basically need to run them at about 30% of their rated flow, if vented, for silent operation. This flow rate allows for a laminar flow pattern that basically travels down the walls of the tube with a channel of air in the center. When you increase the flow the air channel collapses and you get a toilet sound.

The other option is to run an overflow at a full siphon, which is also silent, but this requires at least 2 overflows to do properly. The primary overflow runs at full siphon, the higher one vented, and you run a pump that just surpasses the flow rate of the full siphon. The problem with this is that 1" PVC will pull much more than 1000gph at full siphon.

Personally, I would make a glass overflow and drill the tank. You have more options for getting what you want and they tend to look better.



If you have your drain line submerged in the sump below the water line, you need to introduce air by adding an external durso (ditch the elbow and that ridiculous looking tube). Also, ditching PVC hard lines and using flex pipe, such as (not spaflex) but rigid flex pipe, like an outdoor pool pump uses. They are thick and weather tough, and allow water to flow straight down the tube. I drained my last tank almost 5 times to finally learn how to shut those boxes up. You don't need to reduce the flow, they just need to be beefed up a little. The way they want you to set it up stock just doesn't work. Also, enkamat, Very large wire matting, cut a small sheet, place it on top of the overflow box like a lid. Works like a charm to break up the flow.
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#11
Lawnman

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If you have your drain line submerged in the sump below the water line, you need to introduce air by adding an external durso (ditch the elbow and that ridiculous looking tube). Also, ditching PVC hard lines and using flex pipe, such as (not spaflex) but rigid flex pipe, like an outdoor pool pump uses. They are thick and weather tough, and allow water to flow straight down the tube. I drained my last tank almost 5 times to finally learn how to shut those boxes up. You don't need to reduce the flow, they just need to be beefed up a little. The way they want you to set it up stock just doesn't work. Also, enkamat, Very large wire matting, cut a small sheet, place it on top of the overflow box like a lid. Works like a charm to break up the flow.

Am I reading this right you are suggesting using flex pipe instead of hard plumbed pvc pipe?

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#12
andrewguilfoy

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Yes. Just not flex PVC or spa flex, which I normally I don't mind, but can be super stiff. The pipe I used was 1 1/2 inch, kind of rigid flex pipe, clamped to a hose barb, gray, made it silent for me. Using the hard PVC works, just sounded like a toilet was running constantly. Maybe it was how I plumbed it.
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