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LED and eye problems


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#1
andyITA

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Guys,
I HAVE A BIG PROBLEM !!!!
Ever since I have installed my LED lighting (21x3Watt white and royal blue leds) My visual focus is a bit strange....I feel like my eyes are always tired...this effect is over after about 2 hours after I stop looking at the tank.

I have to mention that I never in my life had any problems with my eyes...I still have crystal clear eye sight, I`m 25 years old and this experience started for the first time ever in my life after I installed this LED light system.
Atm I`m using 20% of the led power 4-5 hours/day but even on higher led power I still have the same problem.
A friend of mine that sold me the LED system had it like 3-4 months and he didn`t experience any problem.....

My guess is this:
I am either sensible to this spectrum
I get my eyes tired because of the shimmering effect that occurs because I have powerful water movement on the surface
It-s just a matter of getting used to this kind of light.

I cannot change LED light with fluorescent because of the heat in the hood (I have no problems in looking on fluorescent light systems)
Metal Hallide is not an option since it-s tons of heat and I have no chiller.

Please if anyone has experienced this or has any idea please help me I am on the edge of quiting because of this....

#2
mrbigshot

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a small fan blown at the water will reduce the head from your t5's most of the time. in an enclosed canopy over a 20h without a fan my temps rise at most 3 degrees, my heaters run less so the temp is actually the same. as long as you temp stays under 82 degrees i wouldn't worry about it.

google retinal blue light hazard

most commonly associated with blurriness or seeing halo's.

The mechanisms for photochemical induced retinal injury are caused by the absorption of light by photoreceptors in the eye. Under normal conditions when light hits a photoreceptor, the cell bleaches and becomes useless until it has recovered through a metabolic process called the visual cycle. Absorption of blue light, however, has been shown to cause a reversal of the process where cells become unbleached and responsive again to light before it is ready. This greatly increases the potential for oxidative damage. By this mechanism, some biological tissues such as skin, the lens of the eye, and in particular the retina may show irreversible changes induced by prolonged exposure to moderate levels of UV radiation and short-wavelength light. (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-light_hazard)


Edited by mrbigshot, 25 March 2012 - 11:02 AM.

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#3
blasterman

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Glasses?

I'll bet you $50 if you took this symptom to a physician he'd advise the above (or more excercise).

Oh wait....since we have quack articles regarding "blue light hazards" (usually associated with people trying to sell you blu blocking sunglasses) you obviously can't go outside and get excercise because the sun emits more far blue light than a 1000watt halide. I can show this with my spectrometer, but that's basic science.

Edited by blasterman, 25 March 2012 - 11:32 AM.


#4
andyITA

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Glasses?

I'll bet you $50 if you took this symptom to a physician he'd advise the above (or more excercise).

Oh wait....since we have quack articles regarding "blue light hazards" (usually associated with people trying to sell you blu blocking sunglasses) you obviously can't go outside and get excercise because the sun emits more far blue light than a 1000watt halide. I can show this with my spectrometer, but that's basic science.


Mate I totally agree with you.
But here-s the thing: I never ever in my life had any problem whatsoever with my eyes. ONLY when I look at LED aquarium illumination system I get this tired eyes problem. I have no problem looking at blue/white/whatever the color is in fluorescent light.
I had a friend 3 months ago that had LED light and experienced the same problem after spending some time looking at his aquarium that day. After that I lost contact with him and absolutely no problem for 3 months till I got LEDs for myself. Back then I didn`t realise LEDs caused me the problem.

So I go to the physician, he gives me glasses....okey great....but I am not ill I have my eyes in perfect shape....I think I-ll get rid of the ####ing LEDs instead.

#5
jm82792

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I am protective(safety glasses for almost everything) of my eyes because I only see 20/50ish and for years it was 8X worse....
Your findings are strange considering there isn't any UVA coming from the LEDs, perhaps since they are so strong and the lighting is from such a small area that's the cause?
Maybe build a diffuser?
I was talking to my optician and his opinion(was just confirming what I knew) confirms that LEDs are fine as long as the spectrum is good.

Edited by jm82792, 25 March 2012 - 02:43 PM.


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#6
HVani

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I've had my LEDs for a while now and I've had no issues with my eyes. I even watch the tank in the dark with the LEDs on. The first couple days I had them I got a little bit of head ache from the shimmer but not anymore. I wear glasses though so I'm not sure if that's part of it.

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#7
andyITA

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I am protective(safety glasses for almost everything) of my eyes because I only see 20/50ish and for years it was 8X worse....
Your findings are strange considering there isn't any UVA coming from the LEDs, perhaps since they are so strong and the lighting is from such a small area that's the cause?
Maybe build a diffuser?
I was talking to my optician and his opinion(was just confirming what I knew) confirms that LEDs are fine as long as the spectrum is good.

It can`t be because there it-s too much power in the LEDs since I have used them on 20% of their power and still had the same impact on my eyes.
I am genuinely starting to think that I have a weakness in my eyes regarding powerful blue light devices. I mean I read an article saying that blue light is not natural and for some pple their eyes don`t know how to react or adapt so from here could come the stress on the eyes.....

#8
pyrrhusmj

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You could just be getting old. After all 25 is ancient. Kidding of course. I can
See your issues. While I don't have a sensitivity to a particular spectrum, I have a strong sensitivity to bright light of any type which is a sign of some name I can't pronounce. If you haven't seen an optometrist or opthamOlogist in a while, go talk to them.

#9
andyITA

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I just taken out the led system out of the hood and got florescent light instead: 3x18Watts blue+white and now I can finally say my eyes are relaxed again...I can watch my aquarium efortless again and it-s such a nice view.

Question: if I leave the cooler to push air into the T5 neon tube to cool it would it be ok ? coze they tend to get a bit hot usually ....

#10
steely185

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Without giving you a smart ass response. People react different to different types of light. I have had no issues with my vision and have had very different types of lighting over the years (VHO, T5, halide, LED) and LED are the only ones to bother my eyes. They create more tension on the eyes and headaches.

I think part of the problem is the angle of exposure to the light. The other part I believe is the blending of the light. Some fixtures have more of a disco ball or spastic light effect while others blend the light better light natural light. Some fixtures, DIY fixtures, and the current true lumen lights do this to me. My kessil does not bother me at all though. I believe it's because it is a point source light and the colors are blended so much better. There is no disco ball effect and the tank is more soothing to look under this light.

Edited by steely185, 26 March 2012 - 05:55 AM.


#11
Veng

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My guess is you're dealing with the "60hz headache" some people get from LEDs.

#12
Cintax

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I would imagine the problem is more to do with the shimmer effect then anything.

I will say that after looking at my aquarium regular things appear more yellow for about 2-5 minutes. I run my LEDs at 35% duty cycle.

#13
andyITA

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I am happy again...I just need to battle with the head problem now....I am going to install the cooling sistem on the hood now to cool the T5 since they get a lot hotter than the leds

#14
Cintax

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Can you modify your fixture to include a small exhaust fan? Something like 120mm from a computer will move enough air and be fairly quiet. I have one that is 120mm, 800 RPM and only 13dB.

#15
halcyonism

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Mate I totally agree with you.
But here-s the thing: I never ever in my life had any problem whatsoever with my eyes. ONLY when I look at LED aquarium illumination system I get this tired eyes problem. I have no problem looking at blue/white/whatever the color is in fluorescent light.
I had a friend 3 months ago that had LED light and experienced the same problem after spending some time looking at his aquarium that day. After that I lost contact with him and absolutely no problem for 3 months till I got LEDs for myself. Back then I didn`t realise LEDs caused me the problem.

So I go to the physician, he gives me glasses....okey great....but I am not ill I have my eyes in perfect shape....I think I-ll get rid of the ####ing LEDs instead.


When is the last time you have had your eyes examined? I have known several people throughout the years that swore they had perfect eye sight, their profession required an eye exam and they all came home with glasses.

#16
andyITA

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Can you modify your fixture to include a small exhaust fan? Something like 120mm from a computer will move enough air and be fairly quiet. I have one that is 120mm, 800 RPM and only 13dB.

Well...so I need to take out or to blow the air on the florescent tube ?
the thing is that the hood has allready 2 small fans (1 takes the air out 1 puts air in) but it still gets hot like hell. I think it-s because the hood came with classic T5 power with starters. they get hot
I want to replace them with electrical power suply no starters needed and put 2 fans to blow the air on the suply and on the T5 tubes.....also I will leave the 2 small stock fans on so they will circulate the air into the hood case.

#17
Cintax

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You can try switching to a digital ballast which might reduce heat over a mechanical ballast (am I understanding you correctly?).

Is the case made of plastic? If so you could easily modify it to use larger fans. Large fans are great because they move more air at less RPM so they will be quieter.

I'd use the fans to blow air away from the water so you don't add heat to the tank.

#18
andyITA

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You can try switching to a digital ballast which might reduce heat over a mechanical ballast (am I understanding you correctly?).

Is the case made of plastic? If so you could easily modify it to use larger fans. Large fans are great because they move more air at less RPM so they will be quieter.

I'd use the fans to blow air away from the water so you don't add heat to the tank.


Yes I want to switch to digital ballast.
Case is bade of plastic and I am going to drill a hole in the middle and mount a fan cooling system to blow air on the digital ballast and T5 tubes.....

Regarding the water cooling I will blow air into the water surface to make it evaporate resulting in cooling.

#19
dling

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Yes I want to switch to digital ballast.
Case is bade of plastic and I am going to drill a hole in the middle and mount a fan cooling system to blow air on the digital ballast and T5 tubes.....

Regarding the water cooling I will blow air into the water surface to make it evaporate resulting in cooling.

Since you wont be needing those led's anymore PM me and I will give you my address and you can send them to me.Thats the least I can do to help save your eye sight.No thanks nessary. :D
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#20
Deep Stops

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When is the last time you have had your eyes examined? I have known several people throughout the years that swore they had perfect eye sight, their profession required an eye exam and they all came home with glasses.


Same thing happened to me when I was 19. I swore I had good vision, but someone suggested that I should get my eyes tested because I couldn't read something. Turned out I had astigmatism. Still don't wear my glasses though.

Edited by Deep Stops, 26 March 2012 - 11:25 AM.


#21
andyITA

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Same thing happened to me when I was 19. I swore I had good vision, but someone suggested that I should get my eyes tested because I couldn't read something. Turned out I had astigmatism. Still don't wear my glasses though.

the thing is I can see perfectly in close/far distance....
the only thing is that I felt my eyes super tired the day I had LEDs in my tank

#22
mrbigshot

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Glasses?

I'll bet you $50 if you took this symptom to a physician he'd advise the above (or more excercise).

Oh wait....since we have quack articles regarding "blue light hazards" (usually associated with people trying to sell you blu blocking sunglasses) you obviously can't go outside and get excercise because the sun emits more far blue light than a 1000watt halide. I can show this with my spectrometer, but that's basic science.


except cree acknowledges this danger, unless they started making sunglasses to.

http://www.cree.com/...p_eyeSafety.pdf

xr-e blues, and xp-e blues are moderate risk where the xr-e and xp-e royal blues are high risk for
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#23
andyITA

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OK I`v been to the eye doc and got tested on a advanced system for eye exam and my eyes are perfect....and my vision is sharp.

He only suggested that I have some sort of photofhobia and I should spend less time viewing my aquarium....also he gave me some anti reflection glasses to protect me during the time I spend watching the monitor/aquarium....but I hate them I simply cannot find them comfortable I feel life a pain in the frontal part of my head when I use them.

what do you think ?

#24
Deckoz2302

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....I think blue light makes me sneeze.....sun sneezes yo

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#25
mrbigshot

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andy i would go back to t5ho's. if you cant enjoy the aquarium anymore than theres no sense in having one.
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