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#1
Saltyduck

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Ok so - long story short - about 6mths ago I had a glass heater explode in my tank. It had no copper parts. My LFS called the company (deep blue) and they confirmed this. Everything was going great too.

I took everything out and emptied as much water as I could. I didn't want to ruin the live sand or live rock so I left that alone, but emptied as much water as I could.

I re-set up the tank and started completely over. My LFS has been great in the whole process. They talked with Deep Blue, who didn't offer me a replacement anything, but the LFS gave me store credit for what I lost.

However ever since the heater mishap (I now have a Rena heater - plastic and not-expode-able) for some reason, certain things don't live in my tank. I test my water weekly for PH, Nitrite, Nitrate, Alkalinity, Ammonia - and everything tests fine. I've taken my water to two separate LFS's and they test my water and they say it tests fine and say "it's a mystery" as to why these things don't do well.

Currently I have:
maroon clown
starry blenny
catelina goby
blue legs
maxi mini carpet anemone

and all of these have done great. They're perky, colorful, and healthy. I have more fish than anything else because these are the only things that seem to do well in my tank. I really don't want to add much more - but I WOULD like to add some snails - but these are one of the things that die within days of putting in the tank. I've tried turbos, trochus, ceriths, nassarius...they all die pretty quick. The nassarius lasted the longest.

I'm beginning to think there might be something in the liverock or sand that may have been left over from the heater that is undetectible when I test (I've also bought a copper and other test kits - hardness, calcium and test out fine) but for some reason the fish and the anemone are unaffected.

I'm debating whether I should change the LR and/or the sand or just give in and let it be what it is - but I'm stubborn and want to fix it. The things that are in there now are healthy, perky, colorful and happy....I should probably leave it...but I really would like some little crabs and snails to help with clean up at least.

Thoughts?

Parameters:
"reef capable" LEDs (I also have a metal halide set up but not a fan w/ the heat it puts out and my anemone was not a fan either so I don't use it),
RENA heater (keep it at 75 deg),
salinity is 1.024
PH 8.2
Nitrite: none
Nitrate: 3ish
Calcium: 530 (yes I realize this is high)
Koralia powerhead
strip bubbler
weekly water changes
15 gal tall

Anyway.................any input appreciated
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#2
FlCandy

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IDK have you tested for Copper anyways?

I would just to be sure.

Also could try running some Activated Carbon that would help some to get any contaminants out.

Other then that and large WC IDK until your SURE you have no copper in the tank.

Although your Nem and the Hermits are doing fine as well .....

IDK about the LED's either..... I haven't heard that they are TRULY "Reef Capable"

#3
altolamprologus

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Since you have other inverts that are doing fine, it's not copper or any other heavy metal. Since your calcium is high, it leads me to believe your magnesium may also be high, which can kill snails. Buy a mag test kit and see what your level is. If you're just dumping them in there without being drip acclimated for at least an hour, that's the cuprit.


Other notes: If by "reef capable LEDs" you mean the marineland ones, those suck and will probably not support your nem over time.

Catalina gobies are temperate fish that don't do well at reef temps. Even 75 is a bit high

Maroon clowns are huge fish. It may be small now, but it will eventually get big enough to just barely be able to turn around in the tank. Minimum recommended tank size is 30 gallons and even that is really really small for maroons. They are also straight up @ssholes that will attack and kill everything, including your hand. I suggest you find new homes for both fish and re-stock the tank more wisely next time.

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
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#4
FlCandy

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Since you have other inverts that are doing fine, it's not copper or any other heavy metal. Since your calcium is high, it leads me to believe your magnesium may also be high, which can kill snails. Buy a mag test kit and see what your level is. If you're just dumping them in there without being drip acclimated for at least an hour, that's the cuprit.


Other notes: If by "reef capable LEDs" you mean the marineland ones, those suck and will probably not support your nem over time.

Catalina gobies are temperate fish that don't do well at reef temps. Even 75 is a bit high

Maroon clowns are huge fish. It may be small now, but it will eventually get big enough to just barely be able to turn around in the tank. Minimum recommended tank size is 30 gallons and even that is really really small for maroons. They are also straight up @ssholes that will attack and kill everything, including your hand. I suggest you find new homes for both fish and re-stock the tank more wisely next time.


I really love your responses Alto. I didn't know about the high Mag, good to know that affects snails too. ;)

#5
altolamprologus

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I really love your responses Alto. I didn't know about the high Mag, good to know that affects snails too. ;)

Thanks, candy :) Mag usually doesn't get high enough to affect snails, but it's around 1600ppm that they start to die

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

29 gallon reef; 20 gallon angler lagoon

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#6
FlCandy

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Thanks, candy :) Mag usually doesn't get high enough to affect snails, but it's around 1600ppm that they start to die



And with Calc that high I bet the Alk is high as well makes perfect sense! :D

I love learning new things!

#7
Saltyduck

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IDK have you tested for Copper anyways?

I would just to be sure.

Also could try running some Activated Carbon that would help some to get any contaminants out.

Other then that and large WC IDK until your SURE you have no copper in the tank.

Although your Nem and the Hermits are doing fine as well .....

IDK about the LED's either..... I haven't heard that they are TRULY "Reef Capable"


I have tested for the copper - I got a copper test kit and each time I test for it (I test for it every other time just in case) it is negative. I have run a HOB filter originally for the first few months after the heater misshap.

Since you have other inverts that are doing fine, it's not copper or any other heavy metal. Since your calcium is high, it leads me to believe your magnesium may also be high, which can kill snails. Buy a mag test kit and see what your level is. If you're just dumping them in there without being drip acclimated for at least an hour, that's the cuprit.


Other notes: If by "reef capable LEDs" you mean the marineland ones, those suck and will probably not support your nem over time.

Catalina gobies are temperate fish that don't do well at reef temps. Even 75 is a bit high

Maroon clowns are huge fish. It may be small now, but it will eventually get big enough to just barely be able to turn around in the tank. Minimum recommended tank size is 30 gallons and even that is really really small for maroons. They are also straight up @ssholes that will attack and kill everything, including your hand. I suggest you find new homes for both fish and re-stock the tank more wisely next time.


I have tried drip acclimating them - they still die within 3-7 days. I will get a mag test kit and try that.

I have had the anemone for about 3mths now and it seems to like the LEDs. I had a T5 before and it even did fine on that...I was surprised because I put it in a bright spot but it chose a spot that gets a little less light. I tried the metal halide for a month but it shrunk and puckered and didn't spread out as much as it did with the LED's.

I'll keep the maroon until it gets bigger...then return it to my LFS. They're pretty good about giving me store credit or exchanging me things. This one isn't so much a @sshole (tho the other clown I had was- and was promptly returned)
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#8
jedimasterben

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I have tested for the copper - I got a copper test kit and each time I test for it (I test for it every other time just in case) it is negative. I have run a HOB filter originally for the first few months after the heater misshap.



I have tried drip acclimating them - they still die within 3-7 days. I will get a mag test kit and try that.

I have had the anemone for about 3mths now and it seems to like the LEDs. I had a T5 before and it even did fine on that...I was surprised because I put it in a bright spot but it chose a spot that gets a little less light. I tried the metal halide for a month but it shrunk and puckered and didn't spread out as much as it did with the LED's.

I'll keep the maroon until it gets bigger...then return it to my LFS. They're pretty good about giving me store credit or exchanging me things. This one isn't so much a @sshole (tho the other clown I had was- and was promptly returned)

Again, testing it doesn't mean anything as long as your nem and other inverts are still alive. Any heavy metals would take them out pretty quickly. Though, I did have a hermit crab and two snails that survived a week in a QT tank with Cupramine in it! They hitchhiked into the system on a live rock when I was treating my fish for ich, and a week later I found them crawling around like nothing ever happened!

#9
Saltyduck

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Again, testing it doesn't mean anything as long as your nem and other inverts are still alive. Any heavy metals would take them out pretty quickly. Though, I did have a hermit crab and two snails that survived a week in a QT tank with Cupramine in it! They hitchhiked into the system on a live rock when I was treating my fish for ich, and a week later I found them crawling around like nothing ever happened!


I know but I still test - just in case I will have an answer! I mean Deep Blue did say they use no copper parts in their heaters....but I still tested. And the things I do have are still alive...but I just want to be sure.

And out in the wild I've seen hermit crabs meander through some pretty rotten stuff! I think they're the cockroaches of the sea and could survive the apocalypse.
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#10
jedimasterben

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I have tried drip acclimating them - they still die within 3-7 days. I will get a mag test kit and try that.

I have had the anemone for about 3mths now and it seems to like the LEDs. I had a T5 before and it even did fine on that...I was surprised because I put it in a bright spot but it chose a spot that gets a little less light. I tried the metal halide for a month but it shrunk and puckered and didn't spread out as much as it did with the LED's.

I'll keep the maroon until it gets bigger...then return it to my LFS. They're pretty good about giving me store credit or exchanging me things. This one isn't so much a @sshole (tho the other clown I had was- and was promptly returned)

A lot of the snails you listed are intertidal snails that regularly go through wet-dry-wet-dry with the changing tides, so you don't need to drip acclimate them, they are used to sudden changes in their environment. I didn't lose a single snail out of 300 acquired from ReefCleaners.

Mini-maxis don't need a whole lotta light. Put them under bright lights and they'll move around and hide under a rock to find shade!

#11
Saltyduck

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A lot of the snails you listed are intertidal snails that regularly go through wet-dry-wet-dry with the changing tides, so you don't need to drip acclimate them, they are used to sudden changes in their environment. I didn't lose a single snail out of 300 acquired from ReefCleaners.

Mini-maxis don't need a whole lotta light. Put them under bright lights and they'll move around and hide under a rock to find shade!


Yeah I initially did just a gradual float and then added water from the aquarium w. the snails but then did the drip with them when they were all dying. They still died no matter what acclimation I did. So I dunno what's up with the tank that's killing them.

I don't plan on getting any corals - really all I'd like to get more in my tank is snails to take care of the glass algae since the starry blenny does such a phenomenal job with the algae elsewhere (he's so chubby) on the glass and some other cleaner type things like a sand sifting star.

I've watched my tank and the maroon clown is very well behaved so I don't see him eating anything or bothering anything else in the tank. I question if my live rock is really alive....nothing ever grows on it (well, algae does, but blenny takes care of that). It's the "aqua cultured" type so I dunno if that stuff just doesn't come with critters and stuff.
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#12
bizzarro

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I had snails live and survive in higher calc (600+ using an API Calc test kit) than that unknowingly when I started to finally test.

Take a water sample to your LFS to do the tests on the other elements you can't test for.

Doesn't mag get depleted quickly? If you never dosed mag, I don't think your levels would be that high.

#13
Degener8

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What was used in the heater that could have leeched into the tank.. deep blue should be able to answer that. Old heaters used to use mercury etc I just think there had to be something that go into and is still there. I had a heater explode once and there was all these little beads that dropped all over my sand.. I still don't know what they were actually made of but I replaced all my sand because of them.

Maybe you could do something like vaccume out all the sand and let things re settle as a bare bottom tank then attempt a snail or 2 and see..

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#14
Deckoz2302

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And with Calc that high I bet the Alk is high as well makes perfect sense! :D

I love learning new things!


Alk is probably low in the 6-8 range and ph is probably in the 7.6-7.9 range

I'll learn you some stuff randii... ;)

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#15
Deano

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There is a very remote chance it may be stray voltage in the tank since the fish and nem are doing ok but I would test for it just to rule it out.

Here is a link to help id and test for stray voltage.

#16
Saltyduck

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What was used in the heater that could have leeched into the tank.. deep blue should be able to answer that. Old heaters used to use mercury etc I just think there had to be something that go into and is still there. I had a heater explode once and there was all these little beads that dropped all over my sand.. I still don't know what they were actually made of but I replaced all my sand because of them.

Maybe you could do something like vaccume out all the sand and let things re settle as a bare bottom tank then attempt a snail or 2 and see..


Would it be possible to replace the sand with other live sand?

The heater was brand new - I bought it just two weeks earlier! But it still could have something it it that leached out that is still in my tank.

I had snails live and survive in higher calc (600+ using an API Calc test kit) than that unknowingly when I started to finally test.

Take a water sample to your LFS to do the tests on the other elements you can't test for.

Doesn't mag get depleted quickly? If you never dosed mag, I don't think your levels would be that high.


I've never dosed it with anything! I dont know where the high levels are coming from. I do think I am seeing the "snow" in there. It's not a lot but I do see white specs floating around.
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#17
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Alk is probably low in the 6-8 range and ph is probably in the 7.6-7.9 range

I'll learn you some stuff randii... ;)


LOL I bet you will!



White Specks...... When did you start seeing them?

#18
Saltyduck

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LOL I bet you will!



White Specks...... When did you start seeing them?


Well I just started to NOTICE them within the last week. But my Calcium has been high for awhile (despite the water changes). I just started to look closely at the water recently to see if I saw "white specs" after I read somewhere that high calcium caused "white snow" - so they could have been there for longer as far as I know.
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#19
asting

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Thanks, candy :) Mag usually doesn't get high enough to affect snails, but it's around 1600ppm that they start to die

hm I've never heard that. Do you have any sources for that? I've been studying the bryopsis treatment method of kent tech m and have not run across anyone saying that in all of the threads.
Thanks.

#20
altolamprologus

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hm I've never heard that. Do you have any sources for that? I've been studying the bryopsis treatment method of kent tech m and have not run across anyone saying that in all of the threads.
Thanks.

"Too much magnesium can have a negative effect on snails in that it works as a muscle relaxant" from here

other reports

You're the type of man who passes by sports illustrated and grabs encyclopedia brittanica when you take a dump, huh?

Did someone mention Alto ???
Im GAGA for Alto !!

I'd give you a hug but you might stab me

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#21
FlCandy

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Well I just started to NOTICE them within the last week. But my Calcium has been high for awhile (despite the water changes). I just started to look closely at the water recently to see if I saw "white specs" after I read somewhere that high calcium caused "white snow" - so they could have been there for longer as far as I know.



That could be the specks, if calcium gets too high you can see a precipitate (Snow).

I would do as Deckoz says and stick with one kind of salt.

#22
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Ok just a little update - I did a bunch of water changes, replaced some of the sand and some of the LR. Things appear to be MUCH better. Everything seems much happier. My LFS gave me a snail (no charge) to see how it'd do - it's still alive! I also added a Rena XP1 and that seems to have made a huge difference as well.
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