imcosmokramer Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 http://reeftools.com/live/forum/showthread.php?t=1593 I can't believe the steam did it. so scary. Link to comment
acropora1981 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Is the toxin only made in Palythoa or is it made by zoanthus as well? ... why would they treat him with antibiotics? Thats for bacteria... Link to comment
banshee Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I'm starting to wonder if palys and zoos are worth keeping. I'm sure there's plenty if things that won't poison my family I could keep... Link to comment
steely185 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I work with palytoxin as part of my job in a toxin lab. Palythoas produce palytoxin while zoanthids do not. Zoanthids can produce their own toxin (not known as palytoxin) but their toxin produced is nowhere near as strong. Not all palythoas produce palytoxin. There can also be slight variations with their mass fingerprint depending on species. This means that an individual species may have a unique toxin that can be identified based on molecular weight. Big thing here is that any toxin when aspirated is usually more dangerous and usually more deadly. Link to comment
19jeffro83 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 What kinds of palys found in the hobby carry the stronger poisons? I read this last night on RC and did some searching but can't find specific species or morphs that are more dangerous than others. Link to comment
JoelRHale Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I work with palytoxin as part of my job in a toxin lab. Palythoas produce palytoxin while zoanthids do not. Zoanthids can produce their own toxin (not known as palytoxin) but their toxin produced is nowhere near as strong. Not all palythoas produce palytoxin. There can also be slight variations with their mass fingerprint depending on species. This means that an individual species may have a unique toxin that can be identified based on molecular weight. Big thing here is that any toxin when aspirated is usually more dangerous and usually more deadly. Steely, not to hijack, but I know there is a lot of confusion when it comes to what is and what isn't a palythoa. Are these palythoa? And are they capable of real harm? They were sold to me as palythoa. When I added them they slimed so bad I had to start running carbon. Just curious if there's any risk involved. They aren't incredibly pretty so I wouldn't mind getting rid of them. Link to comment
HVani Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I've also heard of steam being inhaled while cleaning palys and causing major issues. That seems the most dangerous form of the toxin. If you are just touching them or even fragging I think you are much safer. I have several palys in my tank without any issues besides needing to run carbon. When I need to frag them I will wear gloves and goggles but no need to get rid of them completely. Link to comment
steely185 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Just be careful when handling palythoas and careful fragging them. Palythoa toxica, Palythoa heliodiscus, palythoa tuberculosa, and palthyoa caribaeorum are all very strong. Morning mist palys are another that is strong. It's not always easy to id them based off of looks alone. It usually takes some work like on a mass spec to id the truely toxic ones. Inhalation is more dangerous because it reaches your bloodstream quicker through the membranes in your nostrils (same reason some nasal sprays work so much quicker than taking a pill when sick). I wouldn't be working with them with any open wounds for the same reason. Link to comment
JoelRHale Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I've also heard of steam being inhaled while cleaning palys and causing major issues. That seems the most dangerous form of the toxin. If you are just touching them or even fragging I think you are much safer. I have several palys in my tank without any issues besides needing to run carbon. When I need to frag them I will wear gloves and goggles but no need to get rid of them completely. In the new tank they have no place in the scape. They are actually pretty much hidden from view. They get direct light and are doing well, but I just don't have a place for them. So if they can seriously hurt me I'll just trade them for something else. Just be careful when handling palythoas and careful fragging them. Palythoa toxica, Palythoa heliodiscus, palythoa tuberculosa, and palthyoa caribaeorum are all very strong. Morning mist palys are another that is strong. It's not always easy to id them based off of looks alone. It usually takes some work like on a mass spec to id the truely toxic ones. Okay, thanks for the info! I'll just continue to be extra careful. Link to comment
asting Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 This happens every few years or so. Bottom line is don't boil zoanthids or palys. Link to comment
Psychosis Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 What, you guys get arms deep in a private cess pool every day? Legionnaires, Salmonella, and some other exotic stuff that I can't recall, occasionally wind up in home aquaria. You run a bacteria farm, it can't all be beneficial. This is an easy fix. Wear gloves, don't cook coral, and keep your hands washed ya' nasties. Oh, best wishes on a speedy recovery. Blood filled lung sounds brutal. Link to comment
lizardfish Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 story sounds fake.. how did he know it was the paly steam ? why would he take the time to print out stuff on it. they wouldn't give him antibiotics .. sounds fishy (no pun intended ) iv worked with all kinds of paly's with no protection with cuts on my hands, burns a lil some times skin turns a lil red at most. i think the real danger is getting it in your eyes ... news story or it never happened Link to comment
FlCandy Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 story sounds fake.. how did he know it was the paly steam ? why would he take the time to print out stuff on it. they wouldn't give him antibiotics .. sounds fishy (no pun intended ) iv worked with all kinds of paly's with no protection with cuts on my hands, burns a lil some times skin turns a lil red at most. i think the real danger is getting it in your eyes ... news story or it never happened Okay they also gave steroids to stop the body's reaction to the toxin. Antibiotics were to stop any secondary infection from starting. Have dealt with toxins in cats and dogs. Link to comment
lakshwadeep Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 It's confusing how steam could hold palytoxin considering it is an extremely large (molecular weight) molecule, assuming that is what caused the symptoms. Link to comment
mndfreeze Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I call shennanigans, or bad information. There is a ton of incorrect info in the posting, and it screams internet kid looking for attention. Link to comment
Chrisl1976 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 why would he take the time to print out stuff on it. they wouldn't give him antibiotics .. sounds fishy (no pun intended ) Why did he print it out? Because he is VERY smart and it probably saved his life. These are all exotic creatures. If he was brought into that ER unconscious, I can probably guarantee you being poisoned by a coral would not have been on any ER docs list of the first 10 reasons to treat him for. How many cases of this go through ER's a year in non-tropical regions? Its just like keeping Lion Fish. If you get stung, the first thing you do is Tell someone, if you can't you call 911 and tell them. Worse case scenario, you write it on your forehead with a permanent marker. You want to get the exact care you need ASAP and not the shotgun treatment you get if they don't know. Link to comment
seabass Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Just in case you don't have access to a printer when you are coughing up blood... Link to comment
boxboy Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 This does not apply to Lps or sps correct? Link to comment
seabass Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 No it doesn't, but there are allergy risks with those too. My take on this subject is that the risk is low; however, you should always take precautions and be safe. There are a number of threads on how you should handle coral and the safety precautions that are recommended. Link to comment
Tcat3rd Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 This is tommy, i just lost a post that took me 45 min to type on I pad, cannot do again, still very week. Lizard and freeze, I do not lie, I am a 55 year old man with over 20 years in saltwater. My name is Tom chambers from Lakewood Ohio, currently in icu step down room at Cleveland clinic from palytoxin . Cosmo and Kreeger are from a great local club and Kreeger wrote the post for me to inform fellow reefers of what happened, I was in icu on the phone with him as I could not type yet. Within 3 hour of contact, I could not lift my hand. It was definitely the toxin as I started getting sick within minutes of coming upstairs from cleaning. Kreeger described it exactly as it was to to him by me. Wanna contact me, I'll reply, but not for a while, I am still trying to get of of here. Posting that this is fake or has tons of incorrect info is doing a disservice yo the readers here. I only signed up to tell everything in story is correct and I will post dr reports on reef central where people have known me for many years if that mt hep non believers like you. That was the ONLY purpose of Kreeger posting for me, not to argue with people would tear apart the facts. Steely I believe you work in a lab with toxins as does my doaghter who works as a bio chemist for Cleveland clinic Lerner research center. She has access to many journals and as you know there us very little on palytoxins. My daughter has actually been published in the new england journal of medicine and graduated from case western. Email and I reply whenever I get out. I was not boiling them. Will follow up on reef central northern Ohio reef keepers not fixing typos, to hard Ono iPad Doc is here again, about to spend 5th night here gotta go quick, Peace Tommy Link to comment
Dani3d Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Absolutely not! they are extremely dangerous and could kill you any time, you never know when. So just to be safe, send what ever you have to me. I'll even pay for the shipping on those good looking ones. I am immune to palytoxine. I'm starting to wonder if palys and zoos are worth keeping. I'm sure there's plenty if things that won't poison my family I could keep... Link to comment
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