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Ben's OMG IT'S A WATERFALL build


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#26
jedimasterben

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:o BUILD THIS NOW!

Working on it. :)

UPDATE:
Bought a few things just now at drsfostersmith.com:
2x Koralia nano 425's - $23 each (sale FTW!)
Reef Crystals 200g salt mix - $54
80lbs Tahitian Moon Sand ($1/lb, only ~40 is for this tank, the other is for my big reef)

Also bought a glass 40mm (1.57") drill bit from Amazon for $5.34 shipped

Brings total spent to $360 so far.

I also made a s!@# list of, well, you know, s!@# left to buy. :)

Bulkheads/plumbing misc - $45 (this includes if I want to drill for a return on the top tank instead of a lily pipe like I'm considering now)
Custom LEDs - ~$130
Mounting for LEDs - ~$30
Sump - hoping for a $/gallon sale soon for a 20g or so


It all starts adding up fast! Gonna go to home depot tomorrow and see what they have as far as fittings go to attach to the bulkheads. I think that instead of hard-plumbing with PVC that I could convert to 3/4" tubing insert fittings and just run those into the sump. This would allow me a bit of flexibility as I'm not sure if the sump will need to sit right there or in a slightly different spot. Both drains will be redundant, two 3/4" bulkheads on each tank drain.

Also toying with the idea of having the tanks side-by-side instead of front to back. Would allow me to not have the rear tank be so much higher than the front tank, and would make lighting much, much easier. I'd still have the bigger tank elevated, but maybe only by 6" instead of 12". Will get a Google Sketchup design going. All this has to be figured out before I drill the tanks. :)

#27
jedimasterben

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UPDATE:

Didn't end up making it to Home Depot today. My wife works night shift tonight and we stayed up til around 5AM so she could sleep all day to be ready for her shift, so I ended up sleeping til 1:15PM. :P. After I got up and ate "breakfast", I drained a 10g tank and converted it to my SW hospital. Didn't do it in time, though, still lost 60% of my fish to ich, but now the others are super healthy and show no signs of ich, so once they get medicated with cupramine they should all make it. :)

Kept running numbers in the meantime. Figured out that as long as I can get a dimmable driver, I can use the DIM4 controller module from LEDGroupBuy! I want to have three drivers, one for whites, one for blue and violet, and one for the red, cyan, and pink. All told, its probably gonna cost around $200 for the whole kit, minus a controller. Already the projected numbers are over budget, but oh well, I'll keep finding "submarine money" somehere. At least now my wife is no longer opposed to the hobby. She is helping pick out corals and not having a heart attack over paly-covered rocks for $40. :)

Also forgot to add a skimmer to that list, so that's another $80. :(

Edited by jedimasterben, 08 March 2012 - 05:35 AM.


#28
jedimasterben

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UPDATE:

I'm seriously considering an odd LED type: 10w or 20w 10K/455nm royal blue hybrids. http://cgi.ebay.com/...7#ht_2021wt_905

I would need to run either three or five of them, as that's what the only dimmable drivers they have can run them at (or if anyone knows of a driver that will do 1000ma with 40-50v, and is less than $35, let me know). They have 90 degree and 60 degree optics available, and the LEDs themselves are 120 degree.

I will still be supplementing them with 3w LEDs, 8x violet, 4x cyan, 4x pink, and 4x red to finish out the spectrum.

I could do 3x 10w supers, 3x 20w supers, or 5x 10w supers, as that's all the driver options I have (they are the only dimmable ones).

They would be arranged as such (top view of the 24"x24" footprint of the two tanks):

----------------------------
----------------------------
----------------------------
--------------X-------------
----------------------------
-----X----------------X-----
----------------------------
----------------------------
----------------------------

or

----------------------------
----------------------------
-----X----------------X-----
----------------------------
--------------X-------------
----------------------------
-----X----------------X-----
----------------------------
----------------------------

Ok, are the Google Sketchups for it. I made two different views for each setup, with 120 degree and 60 degree cones, since most of an LED's light is within the first 50% of the cone. I may also put 90 degree lenses on the front LEDs to keep more light in (but the lenses are $11 each!).

Three LEDs, 120 degree cones, front
Posted Image

Three LEDs, 60 degree cones, front
Posted Image

Three LEDs, 120 degree cones, back
Posted Image

Three LEDs, 60 degree cones, back
Posted Image

Five LEDs, 120 degree cones, front
Posted Image

Five LEDs, 60 degree cones, front
Posted Image

Five LEDs, 120 degree cones, back
Posted Image

Five LEDs, 60 degree cones, back
Posted Image


What do you think I should get? They are dimmable, so that gives me some flexibility.

Edited by jedimasterben, 08 March 2012 - 05:35 AM.


#29
asting

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I'd be careful with what you place over the front, as I imagine the glare on that top tank would get bad if the optics are too wide.

#30
jedimasterben

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I'd be careful with what you place over the front, as I imagine the glare on that top tank would get bad if the optics are too wide.

You speak the truth. I hadn't thought about that, but damn, now it hit me hard!

Ok, if I do five of these 10W LEDs, with two in the back with no optics (120 degrees) and three in the front with 60 degree optics, it would look like this:

Posted Image

Still has some of the front lighting (in blue) hitting the rear tank about halfway up. While I was designing it I though about a solution. Since the LEDs will be mounted to aluminum U-channel, I could just cut a bit of a side of some of the extra channel and put it as a block to prevent light from hitting right there. I would measure where it would need to go and attach it into place. Plus, it'll add a bit more dissipation area. :)

#31
CarrillXXP

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In the front I'd have slimmer optics, maybe 40?
Posted Image

#32
jedimasterben

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They have 90 degree and 60 degree optics available, and the LEDs themselves are 120 degree.

In the front I'd have slimmer optics, maybe 40?

Not available in 40 degrees.

#33
Trick

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whatever you do with optics/no optics, add some kind of reflector or shade so you don't get blinded from the side. I had to do this with my last led build. Awesome build BTW definitely gonna follow this one.

#34
Deleted User 4

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mmm my name is ben too, looking forward to this build, subscribed

#35
asting

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whatever you do with optics/no optics, add some kind of reflector or shade so you don't get blinded from the side. I had to do this with my last led build. Awesome build BTW definitely gonna follow this one.

I was thinking this too. If you had a plank of wood running parallel to the front panel of the top tank that stuck down a few inches past the LED it should help.

#36
jedimasterben

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I was thinking this too. If you had a plank of wood running parallel to the front panel of the top tank that stuck down a few inches past the LED it should help.

This was my plan. My current setup on my big tank is blinding!

Ok, so I was continuing to think about those LEDs and I found that there are parabolic lenses available for the 20w versions of these that are 25 degrees by 50 degrees, which would be perfect for the front tank. However, I'd need to find a driver that could run 2 of the 20w and another to run 2 of the 10w. This, I found, is nearly impossible as the LEDs use very different amperages, and while this wouldn't so much matter (running the 10w in parallel after the 20w, etc), to find one with the right voltage range for my application is beyond my search abilities.

After pricing out several drivers required, along with the $13 lenses, I'd be paying just as much for these as I would be a known-good set of 3w LEDs, so I'm thinking I will stick with my original plan, modified a bit. More details on that to come.

#37
Mr. Microscope

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One thing to note. What are your plans for nutrient level? Unless you're running a very low nutrient SPS style tank, you may have algae build up on your rocks where the waterfall is going to be. One thing I know, exposed algae stinks! I don't want to discourage you because this is going to be a killer build, just something to keep in mind.
74wp.png6ygv.png5cx1.pngxooo.pngxq0e.pngR2Fe5xc.gif

#38
jedimasterben

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One thing to note. What are your plans for nutrient level? Unless you're running a very low nutrient SPS style tank, you may have algae build up on your rocks where the waterfall is going to be. One thing I know, exposed algae stinks! I don't want to discourage you because this is going to be a killer build, just something to keep in mind.

I'm not sure what you mean by low nutrient. I add nothing to my current tank except food, is that what you mean?

#39
Mr. Microscope

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Yes. The difference between feeding lots with minimal filtration vs. very sparse feeding with heavy filtration. The former can grow algae very fast, especially if you don't use high quality RODI to make water.

Edited by Mr. Microscope, 07 March 2012 - 07:16 PM.

74wp.png6ygv.png5cx1.pngxooo.pngxq0e.pngR2Fe5xc.gif

#40
jedimasterben

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Yes. The difference between feeding lots with minimal filtration vs. very sparse feeding with heavy filtration. The former can grow algae very fast, especially if you don't use high quality RODI to make water.

Ahh, ok. Well, I don't use DI, I stop at RO. 0 TDS and every has been stunning so far.

When there were fishies in my 55g, I fed them once every two or three days, whenever I remembered to, and I fed the anemones daily a piece of silverside.

I also have a 65g-rated skimmer on the 55g tank, and the smaller system will have the same, a 65g-rated skimmer and a 20g sump.

#41
jonny roks

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Hey, cool renderings and thanks for the shout out. All custom builds get expensive and quick.

Make sure you plan it out, always get your proportions correct. probably the most important thing.

I've pretty much thought about all ways to create a waterfall build and your original idea was one of them. I didn't do it because my vision needed the bottom tank to be a deep tank and most tanks would not be deep enough for me to accomplish what i wanted to do without going custom [and at the time, i couldn't find a good custom tank maker]

Plan to have everything very low profile and leave room for corals

Msg me if you have any q's. Funny salt creep has never been an issue with my tank. Evaporation is the only problem in my eyes and that's still not to bad.

Edited by jonny roks, 07 March 2012 - 09:09 PM.


#42
jedimasterben

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Hey, cool renderings and thanks for the shout out. All custom builds get expensive and quick.

Make sure you plan it out, always get your proportions correct. probably the most important thing.

I've pretty much thought about all ways to create a waterfall build and your original idea was one of them. I didn't do it because my vision needed the bottom tank to be a deep tank and most tanks would not be deep enough for me to accomplish what i wanted to do without going custom [and at the time, i couldn't find a good custom tank maker]

Plan to have everything very low profile and leave room for corals

Msg me if you have any q's. Funny salt creep has never been an issue with my tank. Evaporation is the only problem in my eyes and that's still not to bad.

Yeah, trying to figure out what to do about the cost. Was expecting at least $350, but that's already blown by and I still have a lot more to get!

This build has had more planning than anything I've ever done (even my computer I didn't put as much time into researching, and I spent hours and hours and hours and hours)! I got the tanks in yesterday (neither was broken, huzzah for three inches of bubble wrap and five of peanuts!), so it's all starting to pay off, though!

I'm glad salt creep isn't bad for you, gives me hope with mine!

UPDATE:

Ok, so after much deliberation, I've come to a (mostly) decision about the LEDs. I ran the numbers using CREEs, Bridgelux, the big 10/20w hybrids, different drivers, and I think that the Bridgelux will be right for me. The amounts of LEDs and placement I'm still having some trouble with. I think this is what I will end up with, ran on two drivers as of right now because of cost:

6x 6500k white
12x royal blue
4x pink
6x red
6x turquoise
6x violet

arranged something like this:


-------------------------------------
----R-T----------R-T---------R-T----
--RB-W-RB--P--RB-W-RB--P--RB-W-RB--
-----V------------V-----------V------
-------------------------------------

Or if I did
6x 6500k
12x RB
4x pink
4x red
4x turquoise
10x violet

------------------------------------------------------
----------------P--------------------P----------------
--RB-W-RB-----R-T-----RB-W-RB-----R-T-----RB-W-RB--
-----V----------V---------V---------V----------V-----
------------------------------------------------------



What do you guys think about these two configurations? Does anyone that has pink LEDs please comment on whether you'd use them again? If they don't add a whole lot, I can scrap them and have more violet.

Edited by jedimasterben, 08 March 2012 - 05:35 AM.


#43
jedimasterben

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Was talking with the Mrs. about the cost of the new build, and she said that it wasn't that bad, and actually sounded kinda happy that it wasn't more!

Still haven't gone and picked up the tanks, salt, and sand from the UPS store yet. I used to work there, and my old boss sent me a text saying "jeez, you have many large boxes here!". I told him that's my indian name, "Many Large Boxes". :haha:

Also got the hole drill in, still not sure if I have the cajones to drill them myself! One slip and it's all over!

#44
jedimasterben

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UPDATE:

Ok, so last night I bit the bullet and ordered the bulkheads and return kit that I'm gonna need. I decided not to use a lily pipe for a return because of how they wrap over the tank. Total cost was $44.41 for:
5x 3/4" thread x thread bulkheads
3x 3/4" PVC 90 degree ell insert x MPT (tubing will be used instead of hard PVC for ease of routing, in case I ever need to move the sump/lines/whatever)
1x 3/4" loc-line MPT connector
6x 3/4" loc-line pieces
1x 3" loc-line flare nozzle


Already got the glass hole drill. Just not sure if I already have enough balls to drill the tanks myself! Maybe I should ask Chuck Norris if I can borrow some, I heard he has like four extra. :lol:


I also decided on exactly what lighting I'm gonna go with: Philips Luxeon Rebel ES from Steve's LEDs! I was gonna go with Milad's 3up CREE stars, but the Rebel ES are a bit cheaper and put out a lot more light. Steve recommended a 1:1.5 white to royal blue setup for the 14K look I'm going for, but since I"m gonna be adding red and turquoise, I'm gonna stick with 1:2. I will be getting some of Milad's new chips, though! For those that haven't seen them yet, he explains that it has the killer combo (red turquoise royal blue) all under a single diode, and comparable in price to a regular trio of the stars! I can't wait!

Total number of LEDs
6x 5650K white Rebel ES
12x 440nm royal blue Rebel ES
4x Ocean Coral white (red-turquoise-royal blue)
6x-12x violets (not sure how many I will want, depends on where I put the SPS mostly)

Drivers will be from Steve's LEDs. After I get the tank up and running, I will be getting a DIM4 from Milad to control it all!

#45
andrewguilfoy

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Drillings easy :) I was scared back in nov to drill but since then have poked about five holes total in two tanks. I think plumbing is the fun part!
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#46
jedimasterben

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Ok, got in the order from Glass-holes. And the tootsie rolls they sent, too. :)

I reinstalled Adobe Illustrator tonight to calculate exactly what angles of optics I will need for each color on each tank to give an even color spread with the fixture 28" above the bottom of the bottom tank. The light blue lines are the white/blue LEDs, the purple are violets, and the reds will count as red and turquoise.

Top tank angles:
Posted Image

Bottom tank angles:
Posted Image


For the top:
White, blue, and violet = 60 optics
Red and turquoise = 80 optics

For the bottom:
White and blue = 30 optics
Violet = 25 optics
Red and turquoise = 45 optics

People need to hurry up and buy my riddler chalice frags so I can get this build going!

Edited by jedimasterben, 21 March 2012 - 05:59 AM.


#47
Deckoz2302

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Chalice...what? Where? This is gonna be like sex in the blue lagoon

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#48
jedimasterben

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Chalice...what? Where? This is gonna be like sex in the blue lagoon

Lol! Check my fs thread in the livestock section.

#49
asting

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I can see a lot of thought went into this. Very cool.

#50
asting

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Updates or the puppy gets it.

Posted Image