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#51
LouDog3

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Coming along nicely. You have every right to be a little anal, you're the customer.
My tank took about 3 weeks to arrive in hand. So you order time line is par for the course with CAD. (not that I'm approving their shipping time)

#52
tokendog

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I recommend you consider going with the Radions instead of the AI SOL. I like my AI SOL, but I do find myself wanting the Radions. I hear nothing but good things about them and the AI SOLs are hit / miss for most people. Lots of people love them, lots of people hate them.

The Radions on the other hand have not had a single bad review that I could find. There are some people who say they expected better, but they still like them and keep them.

Just food for thought. I find myself toying with the idea daily of selling my AI SOLs and going with ATI T5s or trying the Radion. I am still working on dialing in the AI SOLs to get that sweet spot where everything is happy and growing. It is kind of frustrating.

Again, just wanted to give you pause so at least you are 100% certain that's what you want.

Very anxious to see your build move forward. :)

#53
bwoodward0012

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wow, very well thought out so far, can't wait to see this develop. as far as lighting goes i've seen a lot of people beginning to believe in led's, but i've also seen a lot of the people that had previously praised them go back to t5ho's or mh lighting. personally, i plan on a t5ho/ led combo in my next project (currently in planning stages) to get the best of both worlds... just not sure how i'm going to go about accomplishing it. if i had the funds and would go all led i'd probably contact maxspect and get 3 mazzara modules customized to my liking (color choices, optics, etc.) and run that, though radions would probably be my next choice.

#54
twan

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Tokendog and bwoodward0012 thanks for your comments on lighting. I will have a post on my thought process regarding t5 v. AI v. Radion later this week.

#55
twan

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Looking @ Lighting

Dealing with heat issues and bulb changes are the reason(s) I am not looking at t5 lighting or metal halide.
I want to delve into LEDS. Since I will be cycling my tank starting in 2 weeks I still have over a month before I needthe lights but I want to sort out my choices now. My Issues are as follow:

Radion
I want these due to full spectrum. Have not purchased because I do not believe one unit will cover 36x18x18. Requiring two units has a large price tag of $1500
AI Sol
I really was set on using 2 Nano Sol Blue's but still get hung up because it is only 3 colors. They fit by budget and I can have them in 3 days if I need them. Full spectrum is the killer here at the moment. Can I overcome it?
AI Vega
According to an email exchange I had with AI these will still only have white, blue, royal blue and they will not be available now till Mid 2012 and not March.
DIY
Would need to find a "kit" that has full spectrum and will properly cover 36x18x18 and be controllable / dimable.





#56
tokendog

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Looking @ Lighting

Dealing with heat issues and bulb changes are the reason(s) I am not looking at t5 lighting or metal halide.
I want to delve into LEDS. Since I will be cycling my tank starting in 2 weeks I still have over a month before I needthe lights but I want to sort out my choices now. My Issues are as follow:

Radion
I want these due to full spectrum. Have not purchased because I do not believe one unit will cover 36x18x18. Requiring two units has a large price tag of $1500
AI Sol
I really was set on using 2 Nano Sol Blue's but still get hung up because it is only 3 colors. They fit by budget and I can have them in 3 days if I need them. Full spectrum is the killer here at the moment. Can I overcome it?
AI Vega
According to an email exchange I had with AI these will still only have white, blue, royal blue and they will not be available now till Mid 2012 and not March.
DIY
Would need to find a "kit" that has full spectrum and will properly cover 36x18x18 and be controllable / dimable.





I think 1 Radion, at the right height, can cover 24x24. The Radions have a better spread than the AI SOL which suffer from spot lighting.

You could always get another Radion in the future to complete your lighting needs. You are not going to instantly stock your tank full of high light corals so you will have time to save up the money necessary.

If you do decide to go with AI SOL, and are not against going used, please let me know. I take care of my equipment and might be willing to sell both units at a good price if a serious buyer came along.

The only reason I have not switched to T5s already is because I do not have a suitable mounting option at the moment and the only reason I have not gone to Radions is because I already have 2 AI sols and while they do not provide the spectrum, they at least provide full coverage for my tank and going from 2 SOLs to 1 Radions would be a step back in that regard.

#57
siwelk

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FWIW, I started out looking @ LEDs, specifically the Radion.
I've now returned to looking at a T5/MH combo.
I'm not really concerned about heat issues with the open top and ceiling fan in the room.

Also, this may sound crazy, but I like having the ability to replace my bulbs on a schedule.
I know LEDs are listed as having thousands of hours, but I'm curious about diode intensity degradation.
I've yet to see a lot of actual, real-world LED life and coral growth data analysis. Metal Halide vs. Led (Vivid)

Lastly, I think I'll enjoy the UV benefits of MH while the LED guys battle it out.

Edited by siwelk, 15 February 2012 - 10:57 AM.


#58
twan

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I think 1 Radion, at the right height, can cover 24x24. The Radions have a better spread than the AI SOL which suffer from spot lighting.

You could always get another Radion in the future to complete your lighting needs. You are not going to instantly stock your tank full of high light corals so you will have time to save up the money necessary.

If you do decide to go with AI SOL, and are not against going used, please let me know. I take care of my equipment and might be willing to sell both units at a good price if a serious buyer came along.

The only reason I have not switched to T5s already is because I do not have a suitable mounting option at the moment and the only reason I have not gone to Radions is because I already have 2 AI sols and while they do not provide the spectrum, they at least provide full coverage for my tank and going from 2 SOLs to 1 Radions would be a step back in that regard.


Radions
I think you are right about the Radion's. Me being 36x18x18 though would leave me needing 2 even if I mounted it 12 inches AWL. The problem with 2 in addition to the price is 2 units would be enough to light a 90g system (see mr.saltwaterTV video). Knowing this just doesn't sit right with me. While everything thus far as been quality, my budget is running dry and having enough lighting to run a 90g........while being just shy of 50g is overkill that comes at a premium I am not taking lightly.

Used
As for the used Sol's I would not rule it out and thanks for the offer. They are Sol Blue's with white fixtures and controller, correct?

LFS
I am going to visit a LFSnext week that has both AI's and Radion's running on separate tanks but within 5 feet of each other. My 1st visit to this LFS you could see the difference the full spectrum of the Radion made. They were really pushing the Radion's hard (perhaps rightly so) but the AI's looked too dim that I bet they were on a ramp up/down schedule and not at peak while the Radion's were. Armed with more knowledge I am going back to see if they would adjust the lights to similar profiles for me to view for 10 mins.


#59
siwelk

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When using the term 'full-spectrum' to describe the Radion, I'd note that it lacks any LEDs that peak in the near-UV range. A major reason I've been looking at T5/MH. To play devil's advocate, I'd argue the term 'full-spectrum" is less accurate when applied to LED technology vs. Metal Halide bulbs. Just 2% of my dollar.

Edited by siwelk, 15 February 2012 - 11:07 AM.


#60
twan

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I have my tank thread on a Local site and this is the response from a member to me asking about LED's.
He has a lot of valid points and that is why I am including it here:

I strongly consider you either DIY your LED's or go with T5's. I'll touch on a few points here:

The actual life of LEDS is misrepresented by EVERY lighting manufacturer on the market right now. They claim some crazy numbers like 10k Hours of life, etc. This number means absolutely nothing. I can get a halide bulb to fire for 5+ years no problem, the reason we change bulbs is because over time the spectrum shifts to the "yellow" end of things. This promotes algae growth, etc. There have been a grand total of 0 tests to prove that LEDs will actually hold their spectrum for their entire life. Until that's tested and proven, to me LED's are dead in the water.

The amount of money these companies are asking for LED fixtures is absolutely nuts, when you consider their main selling point is completely unproven.

The other big problem I have with LED's, is that the market is RAPIDLY evolving. Every fixture you listed I can almost guarantee will be outdated by next year. Do you really want to drop this kind of money for a fixture that's going to be as outdated as PC's in 12 months?

A good way to mitigate the upfront high end cost, and not deal with a crappy fixture like the AI Sol (Look at an AI tank in person. I'm sure you'll agree with my assessment)........ DIY! With DIY you can upgrade as you see fit, change LED's around, spacing, spectrum, etc. All you need is some VERY basic soldering skills/tools, and a $10 multimeter to get it working.

I still think T5's are the way to go right now though. Active cooled T5 fixtures will be fine for 15-18 months as far as bulbs go. You get just as much spectrum customization, great coverage+penetration (assuming you go w/ a quality fixture), and the technology is proven to stand the tests of time. A mention about heat as well..... I don't see you having an ounce of trouble with heat. You have a rimless tank with no canopy. The amount of evaporative cooling that will be going on is incredible. For instance... I have a 100 Gallon Rimless, with a 250 Watt HQI (10hrs/day), and a return pump that is documented to increase tank temperatures upwards of 3 degrees on it's own. My tank runs 76 Degrees +/- .5 degrees regardless of the day.... I'm also topping off almost 4 full gallons of water a day.


In case you still want to go with one of your listed LED Fixtures... here's some quick notes I have scribbled down when I was investigating LED's a month or so ago (I have since decided to go with T5).


Radion: Best on the market currently. Full Spectrum, intuitive control. Good, but not great coverage. Wayyyyy overpriced for what it does. If you are the kind of guy who likes to pay top dollar for new technology... this is the fixture for you. The the fact a $750 light fixture can't handle anything larger than a 2' x 2' square area is absolutely laughable though.

AI Sol: Affordable.....that's pretty much it. I saw an AI lit tank in person and from that point on didn't even consider it. Fill your tank with Windex, and add another 5 cups of blue food coloring. That's what the tank will look like lol.

AI Vega: They've been saying this thing has been coming out for almost a year now. If they decide to go with WARM WHITE leds (more of a full spectrum diode).... this thing might be a winner. Until it's released though you'll never know.

DIY: Touched on this already. IMO right now.... DIY or T5's are the only real choice.



#61
tokendog

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[font="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Radions
Used
As for the used Sol's I would not rule it out and thanks for the offer. They are Sol Blue's with white fixtures and controller, correct?



Yeah. They are about 4 months old. They have been hanging over the tank and are in new condition. One of them is actually like 2 months old. It's the white enclosure Super Blue SOLs. It comes with a controller and a 36in hanging rail.

Lmk :)

Edited by tokendog, 15 February 2012 - 12:30 PM.


#62
siwelk

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I have my tank thread on a Local site and this is the response from a member to me asking about LED's.
He has a lot of valid points and that is why I am including it here:


That's one of the best breakdowns I've seen compiled.
There are some pretty good points raised there, including the seemingly non-existent heat issue.
Heat being my primary concern for going MH, I believe I've nearly left the realm of LED consideration.

#63
Seano Hermano

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This is an awesome build, tawn! :D I cannot wait to see the pictures!
29G Mixed Reef Build - January 2011 - July 2012
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#64
twan

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Adding a pair of Kessil's 150w's to my option table.
Time to research more.

#65
LouDog3

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I am right where you are.

It's either Radion or Vertex with Red light mod. Lighting has so many choices now, it's a tough decision.

#66
twan

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I am right where you are.

It's either Radion or Vertex with Red light mod. Lighting has so many choices now, it's a tough decision.


Which Vertex? I would need a 36" fixture.
The Vertex Illumina 200 I saw was over $2,000 & the Vertex Illumina 260 was running like $2400 in that size.

Edited by twan, 16 February 2012 - 05:17 AM.


#67
LouDog3

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I was looking at the 48" 260( that's a lot of jack though) due to the depth of the 100 Artisan. The 200 is good up to 18" depth.


The only thing I like about going radion is the colors and that I can sync with the MP40's. Arrrggg. I hate this!!

Edited by LouDog3, 16 February 2012 - 08:40 AM.


#68
twan

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I was looking at the 48" 260( that's a lot of jack though) due to the depth of the 100 Artisan. The 200 is good up to 18" depth.


The only thing I like about going radion is the colors and that I can sync with the MP40's. Arrrggg. I hate this!!


How many Radion's do you think you would need? I can't get away with one and would need two.
Thats whats hurting, the fact that you probably only need 2 and you are double my size!

#69
Krazy_Karl

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"AI Sol: Affordable.....that's pretty much it. I saw an AI lit tank in person and from that point on didn't even consider it. Fill your tank with Windex, and add another 5 cups of blue food coloring. That's what the tank will look like lol."

I couldnt disagree more with this statement. I have Sol's and although you can make your tank look that blue with adjustments, it definitely doesnt represent the usual working color temperature of the lights.

#70
Scorched

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Posted Image


Such a sweet haul! Was it all from BRS or were there other venders? I couldn't find sand substrate on their website.

Ezrvbgf.jpg


#71
LouDog3

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How many Radion's do you think you would need? I can't get away with one and would need two.
Thats whats hurting, the fact that you probably only need 2 and you are double my size!



I want to go heavy with SPS, so based on my stocking, I feel 3 would be better. I could probably get away with 2, with careful placement of corals.

Radion is a 24x24 spread. You could get away with one radian, but depends on your coral requirements.

#72
CBernhardt23

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I want to go heavy with SPS, so based on my stocking, I feel 3 would be better. I could probably get away with 2, with careful placement of corals.

Radion is a 24x24 spread. You could get away with one radian, but depends on your coral requirements.



I seen someone on Reefcentral 1with a radion on a 40 gallon breeder, and I was shocked at the coverage it lit it up pretty well.

#73
twan

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I seen someone on Reefcentral 1with a radion on a 40 gallon breeder, and I was shocked at the coverage it lit it up pretty well.


I think I have seen that as well and it was also on a CAD lights tank...........but I cannot find the link.
Do you have it?
The setup may not be ideal but it can get me rolling with 1 radion to add another radion later.

#74
Jacob042426

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Kessil kessil kessil.

#75
twan

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Kessil kessil kessil.


From what I gather I cannot dim or control them.