The Inspiration (now VEGA powered)

[mmcguffi]

tangs are supposed to be kept in 75+ gal of water; they need crazy amounts of room to swim around

 

however since it's only a baby you should be able to keep it for a while IMO until eventually having to upgrade or sell it back to your LFS

 

to be honest I would probably do the same thing, it's good that you know now though

 

 

 

looking really great--Im a huge fan of shallow aquariums. keep it up!

[awpong]

I personally would probably keep the tang in there for a little longer too. Its a shallow tank (lots of horizontal swimming space) and I believe that fish are usually more hardy than we give them credit for. That being said, this is the usual argument against tangs in small tanks:

 

"The novice or amateur hobbyist can't tell if the fish is okay or not and thus can't tell if they have successfully kept the fish or not. There is a difference between a surviving fish and thriving fish: Survive or Thrive? and the hobbyist quite often can't tell the difference. But, all is not lost -- there are ways of telling.

 

Fish don't talk to us, so we can't tell from sounds if they are okay. Fish behavior is a mystery to those who are hobbyists. They are learning about it, but really don't know to properly interpret whether a fish is okay or not. Another way to look at it is that the hobbyist doesn't know what normal behavior is, so how do they know abnormal behavior? Thus, how would they know if they have successfully kept the fish?

 

So ALL responses to this post will be opinion. I can only offer facts, if you're interested in that. Although you specifically don't want 'No Tang Police' I'm afraid this is how this will sound. This is because the Tang Police come from a sense of what they believe is right, or as in my case, facts.

 

The average reef Tang will travel up to 25 miles a day seeking food. As the fish grows, it needs more space in the confines of an aquarium. A tiny, or 'baby' Tang is fine in a smaller tank. So to ask a proper question, you need to specify the size of the Tang involved. Your post doesn't do this.

 

So, let's assume the Tang is under [2] inches. In that size aquarium -- either one -- no problem -- for a while.

 

In the Tang's transition from juvenile to adult, it is about in the 4" to 6" size. At this point in time the length of the tank is important. Starting at 6 feet long and going up is their best housing. The larger the Tang, the higher the gallonage and the longer distance is needed. For instance, some Tangs reach 2 feet in length. Now of course that size Tang in a 75 to 90 would be ludicrous, or you if the reader finds it amusing, it would be cruel. That Tang belongs in no less than a 500 gallon tank.

 

Now, how do we know this? What separates our interpretations of what the fish 'looks like' from what the fish is really an issue? What are the measurements of success? There are two ways.

 

1. Lifespan; continued uninterrupted health. When a fish is stressed, its life is reduced. The more stress, the more it is reduced. Show my a Tang in a 75 gallon tank that has been fed properly for more than 6 years and I would be shocked. NOTE: it must be fed properly. Why? Because one of those Tangs that grows to 2 feet in captivity will grow about 1.5 inches per year while a baby, 1. inch a year while a juvenile and young adult. So this fish would be over 8 inches in that time frame. There are signs of this stress (pacing, continued health, coloration, etc.).

 

2. Measuring stress. Stress can be chemically measured in our fish. Yes, we say a fish that does a lot of pacing is showing signs of stress, a fish that gets ill now and then is in stress, a fish that has peculiar behavior (assuming the hobbyist really knows what normal behavior is) is stressed, but there is a way to measure stress.

 

Simply put -- a physiological study of an 8" Tang in a 180 gallon aquarium for 2 years, moved into a 500 gallon tank, show by physiological measurements that its stress was considerably reduced -- not gone. I don't own the rights to this study, so I can't share it, but I know the facts. However this doesn't mean that anyone who doubts what I have written can't do the same tests themselves. It was reproducible then as it is now."

[mmcguffi]

lol who wrote that pong? it's quite self-important (albeit correct though)

[Captain Hook]

Adding to the above argument....reef tangs swim an average of 25 miles per day. Aquacultured tangs swim alot less. Im not sure if there are any comparative studies done on aquacultured tangs vs captive specimens, however Im assuming the results would be quite different. Assuming tangs like most aquacultured species, adapt to smaller spaces, different feeding patterns and different levels of stress, I think that it is dependant on the genes of the fish. You cant just take 1 fish and compare it moving from a 75 gallon tank to a 500 gallon. Thats not too confounding. Take 500 captive bred and 500 wild specimens and do the same experiment and Im sure the results are going to vary quite a bit. Aquacultured fish go through many genetic adaptations through each of the generations, so each generation is going to behave slightly differently than the next, which will behave even more differently than another of the same species in a different genetic lineage. My point being, all fish weather wild or captive bred, are going to adapt and behave differently than the next. Genetic diversity makes it impossible to predict or conclude something based on 1 comparison. When proving a hypothesis in an experiment, you have to disprove all the alternatives before you can make a definitive statement ie stating the facts. Fish being provided with a proper environment and being fed and maintained at an optimal level, are subject to genetic differences which may affect its adaptation or rejection to a certain environmental factor or influence.

[mmcguffi]

Adding to the above argument....reef tangs swim an average of 25 miles per day. Aquacultured tangs swim alot less. Im not sure if there are any comparative studies done on aquacultured tangs vs captive specimens, however Im assuming the results would be quite different. Assuming tangs like most aquacultured species, adapt to smaller spaces, different feeding patterns and different levels of stress, I think that it is dependant on the genes of the fish. You cant just take 1 fish and compare it moving from a 75 gallon tank to a 500 gallon. Thats not too confounding. Take 500 captive bred and 500 wild specimens and do the same experiment and Im sure the results are going to vary quite a bit. Aquacultured fish go through many genetic adaptations through each of the generations, so each generation is going to behave slightly differently than the next, which will behave even more differently than another of the same species in a different genetic lineage. My point being, all fish weather wild or captive bred, are going to adapt and behave differently than the next. Genetic diversity makes it impossible to predict or conclude something based on 1 comparison. When proving a hypothesis in an experiment, you have to disprove all the alternatives before you can make a definitive statement ie stating the facts. Fish being provided with a proper environment and being fed and maintained at an optimal level, are subject to genetic differences which may affect its adaptation or rejection to a certain environmental factor or influence.

 

lol ok

 

needless to say 30 gals of water will (fairly) quickly become a prison for this guy. I would just trade him in after a year or whatever for a new tiny little guy

[Captain Hook]

IT could but the area of the tank is alot more important than the number of gallons. Im pretty sure, (not saying yes or no) that a tank with those dimensions could possibly sustain more species and/or be more forgiving with species that require an "average" of a certain number of gallons, opposed to a 40 gallon tall tank or similar. Surface area has alot to do with it. I agree, if it got to big, sure trade it in, but I dont agree with people who claim its wrong to do things they cant prove. Awpong has a good point, im just playing devils advocate lol

[pschom]

In the words of this hobbyist: 'I think he likes it in there.' lmao. We will see. I have read about tangs and I know that, assuming the fish foes well, would not be able to keep it over 1 year. He discolored a bit while transporting but has colored great since addition to the aquarium. He went straight for the rock with the most algae. I'm not an idiot and I'm definitely not cruel (plus I look at my inhabitants like an obsessed reefer) so if I notice a problem I'll remove an relocate the specimen.

 

Thanks for the information! I think it's great that you have chosen to share your wisdom on my thread.

[Captain Hook]

I love that tank dude, Im planning on getting one the same style. Where did you buy it?

[Chris George]

Love this tank. Nice job.

[awpong]

lol who wrote that pong? it's quite self-important (albeit correct though)

 

I don't remember where I found that passage, but I saved it from a while back. I liked it because it covered the basic information without going TP crazy.

 

Adding to the above argument....reef tangs swim an average of 25 miles per day. Aquacultured tangs swim alot less. Im not sure if there are any comparative studies done on aquacultured tangs vs captive specimens, however Im assuming the results would be quite different. Assuming tangs like most aquacultured species, adapt to smaller spaces, different feeding patterns and different levels of stress, I think that it is dependant on the genes of the fish. You cant just take 1 fish and compare it moving from a 75 gallon tank to a 500 gallon. Thats not too confounding. Take 500 captive bred and 500 wild specimens and do the same experiment and Im sure the results are going to vary quite a bit. Aquacultured fish go through many genetic adaptations through each of the generations, so each generation is going to behave slightly differently than the next, which will behave even more differently than another of the same species in a different genetic lineage. My point being, all fish weather wild or captive bred, are going to adapt and behave differently than the next. Genetic diversity makes it impossible to predict or conclude something based on 1 comparison. When proving a hypothesis in an experiment, you have to disprove all the alternatives before you can make a definitive statement ie stating the facts. Fish being provided with a proper environment and being fed and maintained at an optimal level, are subject to genetic differences which may affect its adaptation or rejection to a certain environmental factor or influence.

 

All though this argument seems plausible, yellow tangs are all wild caught.

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2011/04/05/captive...d-yellow-tangs/

[Captain Hook]

Interesting, now that you mention it, I remember reading tangs cant be captive bred. Id still give it a shot until it gets too big or shows signs of stress.

[pschom]

I love that tank dude, Im planning on getting one the same style. Where did you buy it?

I got it from a local store. I always wanted a shallow setup. I had a little extra cash so when I saw it in the store...

[pschom]

Love this tank. Nice job.

Thanks. Yours looks great as well. I like how you lined thru 'green' and put 'ugly brown.' I could never build a stand. Wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

[Chris George]

Hah, yeah that Echino coral is literally a brown/tan color with bright green polyps now. It's still growing, and it shows hints of coloring back up.

 

I'd put my stand up against anything that you can buy pre-made in an LFS as far as stability goes. My woodworking skills are limited to what I learned in junior high, so pretty much anyone can build one of these if you're willing to put in the time. Time is the rare commodity for most of us though.

[pschom]

Time is the rare commodity for most of us though.

 

Well said.

But if we never take time, we will never have time. - The Matrix

[HVani]

lol Even if I had a 500 gallon tank I would most likely not put a tang in it, if I did I wouldn't show pictures of it on forums. People are SO touchy about the subject. It seems like no one has a good enough set up for them in the eyes of the Tang Police.

 

I think your tang looks great, just keep him well fed

[pschom]

lol Even if I had a 500 gallon tank I would most likely not put a tang in it, if I did I wouldn't show pictures of it on forums. People are SO touchy about the subject.

 

 

 

 

 

[mmcguffi]

wow looking really great. love those shallow cubes

[dmarkham]

I don't remember where I found that passage, but I saved it from a while back. I liked it because it covered the basic information without going TP crazy.

 

 

 

All though this argument seems plausible, yellow tangs are all wild caught.

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2011/04/05/captive...d-yellow-tangs/

 

 

I am glad some one else said it.

 

 

The tank is very nice. I am setting up a 20 gallon with the same foot print as yours. I will be following your build along with some others. I helps to see what others with tanks close to what you have are doing. the guy with the Tang advise is just trying to help. I have a yellow tang in my main tank that is close to 5 1/2" long and 7" tall. Can you see him swimming like like a shark in the 20 gallon tank.

[saltwatercoral]

This tank looks EPIC! Crazy good job, gives me some ideas!

[jgilvey]

the full monti

 

Very good. Looking great! I may head over tonight to caress the one at the LFS.

[pschom]

I am glad some one else said it.

 

 

The tank is very nice. I am setting up a 20 gallon with the same foot print as yours. I will be following your build along with some others. I helps to see what others with tanks close to what you have are doing. the guy with the Tang advise is just trying to help. I have a yellow tang in my main tank that is close to 5 1/2" long and 7" tall. Can you see him swimming like like a shark in the 20 gallon tank.

Oh yes, I know. Like I said I'd never keep him over a certain size. We usually get good advice from that store and two people from there said it was fine for now (they were asked separately). He ate some pellets today and looks more content. As I said, we will see.

 

5.5/7! Maybe someday. Thanks for liking my 2x2.

 

wow looking really great. love those shallow cubes

Thanks man. I'm trying to come up with a way to cover the overflow area. It's a bit unsightly as well as I keep finding snails back there. One imparticular. He needs a gps.

 

This tank looks EPIC! Crazy good job, gives me some ideas!

Thanks SWC. I'm thinking of putting a hit out on you if I have to wait any longer to see your tank wet.

 

Very good. Looking great! I may head over tonight to caress the one at the LFS.

Thanks. Goddam them and their marketing techniques! Bastards.

[MGDMIRAGE]

Tank looks good, and i love the tang. I just put a baby sailfin tang in my 40 BRD for a couple months until my 90 gallon is finished. Smaller tanks are perfectly fine as grow out tanks for babies.

[pschom]

Tank looks good, and i love the tang. I just put a baby sailfin tang in my 40 BRD for a couple months until my 90 gallon is finished. Smaller tanks are perfectly fine as grow out tanks for babies.

See...Haters. Thanks MGDMIRAGE.

[PSYS]

Absolutely beautiful...