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Breeding Snowflake and Snowcasso Clownfish


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#1
smitty_1280

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About 2 months ago my wife tells me today that she wants to start breeding clownfish, but not just any clownfish. She wants to breed "Snowflake" Clownfish. She is already started doing all the research to start breeding these fish and has learned a great deal actually. I think we are going to buy some of the tanks for the "grow out" setup today at Petco since they are having their $1 a gallon sell right now.

My question is, what thoughts do you all have about this? Also, do you all think there is much of a market out there still for clownfish? She is very interested, so this means that we will most likely be getting this thing off the ground here within the next few months!

This would be her project mainly and I'm very excited for her. So much to learn for both of us.

We realize that could take up to a year for the clowns to be "happy" enough in their new home (when we finally get them) and we will go from there. We were thinking of getting the setup done first, then when we get our tax returns buying the fish then. I have to go to Korea for a year anyways starting next June, so we are hoping by June of 2013 that they will be ready lol.


Some pics of the Semi-Snowflake's:

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Pics of the snowcasso's:

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My youngest son watching the new fish! :)

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I'm thinking about putting a small CUC in these two tanks. Is this a good idea, at least until I get the feeding amount right?
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#2
mrbigshot

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no on the clean up crew because there's nothing for them to eat. you didn't just set the tanks up and add fish did you? looks pretty barren in there leading me to think the tanks have not been cycled. if that's the case keep an eye on your ammonia levels and keep some ready mixed water on hand for small water changes to bring it down. hate to see you lose valuable fish and being so small still there fragile. if anything i would treat it like a regular tank and not just a breeding tank. add some rock and what not for the fish. that will also allow for additional filtration and not relying on the tanks media in the chambers.

the semi-snowflakes were they from ora or a private breeder, they look to be pretty dark up top on the orange and look like black ice, smore's, fancy snowflakes or one of the other names for them. (that would mean a darwin ocllaris (black and white) and a snowflake ocellaris mix) where as a standard snowflake would be snowflake x snow or regular ocellaris)
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#3
smitty_1280

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no on the clean up crew because there's nothing for them to eat. you didn't just set the tanks up and add fish did you? looks pretty barren in there leading me to think the tanks have not been cycled. if that's the case keep an eye on your ammonia levels and keep some ready mixed water on hand for small water changes to bring it down. hate to see you lose valuable fish and being so small still there fragile. if anything i would treat it like a regular tank and not just a breeding tank. add some rock and what not for the fish. that will also allow for additional filtration and not relying on the tanks media in the chambers.

the semi-snowflakes were they from ora or a private breeder, they look to be pretty dark up top on the orange and look like black ice, smore's, fancy snowflakes or one of the other names for them. (that would mean a darwin ocllaris (black and white) and a snowflake ocellaris mix) where as a standard snowflake would be snowflake x snow or regular ocellaris)



Of course I didn't throw the fish in newly set up tanks lol. But thanks for your concerns. I'm going to have to check on the origin of the snowflakes. I had a trusted manager from a local Petco order them for me. I will see what he can find out as well as asking other breeders I know what they think. But, know I don't think they came from a private breeder.
40 Gallon Breeder & 2 Biocube 14's
2x Aqua Clear 50 HOB/Penguin 550 Power Head/Koralia 425 & 550
T5 Lighting 2x 24 watts (10,000K, Actinic)
45 Pounds Live Rock and 40 Pounds Live Sand
http://s1202.photobu...61/smitty_1280/

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#4
Alpha Aquaculture

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the semi-snowflakes were they from ora or a private breeder, they look to be pretty dark up top on the orange and look like black ice, smore's, fancy snowflakes or one of the other names for them. (that would mean a darwin ocllaris (black and white) and a snowflake ocellaris mix) where as a standard snowflake would be snowflake x snow or regular ocellaris)


I've never heard of the name fancy snowflake to mean the same as Black Ice (b&w x snowflake). I've only heard of Sustainable Aquatics using the term fancy snowflake. Its a Fancy x Snowflake, no b&w in there.

If your snowflakes are from petco I'm guessing they are SA clowns :)

Very nice btw thanks for sharing!
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#5
FishEyeAquaculture

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If your snowflakes are from petco I'm guessing they are SA clowns :)


Petco orders from SA, ORA, and us, FishEye. Could be from any of those three.
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#6
smitty_1280

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I've never heard of the name fancy snowflake to mean the same as Black Ice (b&w x snowflake). I've only heard of Sustainable Aquatics using the term fancy snowflake. Its a Fancy x Snowflake, no b&w in there.

If your snowflakes are from petco I'm guessing they are SA clowns :)

Very nice btw thanks for sharing!


Are you talking about sustainable aquatics? The ones that I call snowflakes kind of look like SA Fancy Snow (Amphiprion ocellaris) (http://www.sustainab...ns/?ParentId=44).

Petco orders from SA, ORA, and us, FishEye. Could be from any of those three.



I guess they could also look like ORA Snowflake (Amphiprion ocellaris) (http://www.orafarm.c.../snowflake.html) as well. I didn't see pics of snowflakes on your website though. I will do my best to try and figure out where these clowns came from. I think it would be really beneficial to me.
40 Gallon Breeder & 2 Biocube 14's
2x Aqua Clear 50 HOB/Penguin 550 Power Head/Koralia 425 & 550
T5 Lighting 2x 24 watts (10,000K, Actinic)
45 Pounds Live Rock and 40 Pounds Live Sand
http://s1202.photobu...61/smitty_1280/

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#7
FishEyeAquaculture

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I didn't see pics of snowflakes on your website though.



hmmm....you just reminded me to put some up! I think knowing orgin of broodstock is very important, I've always said it would be cool to come up with a pedigree for clowns...I know high end koi have it.
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#8
smitty_1280

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hmmm....you just reminded me to put some up! I think knowing orgin of broodstock is very important, I've always said it would be cool to come up with a pedigree for clowns...I know high end koi have it.


That is a very good idea. I used to deal with horses and dogs, and that is very important in those two worlds lol.
40 Gallon Breeder & 2 Biocube 14's
2x Aqua Clear 50 HOB/Penguin 550 Power Head/Koralia 425 & 550
T5 Lighting 2x 24 watts (10,000K, Actinic)
45 Pounds Live Rock and 40 Pounds Live Sand
http://s1202.photobu...61/smitty_1280/

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#9
oceancube

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looks like you ordered pairs that are same age and same size, they have a ways to go to be honest, another thing i would do is try and seperate all 4 fish with other fish, seems like alot of people buy fish from the same place , let me put it this way, you bought the fish from petco, petco buys the fish from ora , or whoever, the snowflakes and picasso or what ever they are are most likely from the same clutch and or parents, meaning inbreeding, just throwing it out there, not saying they wont breed or anything but theres a high chance there from same parents same clutch , inbreeding= no good fry !!! just think on it, i would probably go out and buy some other nice clowns from a different source and probably bigger and pair them up that way....just looking out thats all, no offense B)
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#10
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Petco orders from SA, ORA, and us, FishEye. Could be from any of those three.


Thanks for the heads up. Always trying to learn :)
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#11
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[quote name='smitty_1280' date='Nov 16 2011, 03:26 PM' post='3599814']
Are you talking about sustainable aquatics? The ones that I call snowflakes kind of look like SA Fancy Snow (Amphiprion ocellaris) (http://www.sustainab...ns/?ParentId=44).


Yes that's SA they also have regular Snowflakes that look just like yours not in that list of designers. That's why I assumed they came from SA. I totally forgot about ORA and FishEye who also produce some beautiful snowflakes. We should do a side by side by side it would be pretty cool to see the differences :)

Edited by AlphaCorals, 16 November 2011 - 04:40 PM.

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#12
FishEyeAquaculture

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Thanks for the heads up. Always trying to learn :)


No problem!! And I love that attitude, I really enjoy learning new things/methods everyday!! Keeps it interesting!
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#13
smitty_1280

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looks like you ordered pairs that are same age and same size, they have a ways to go to be honest, another thing i would do is try and seperate all 4 fish with other fish, seems like alot of people buy fish from the same place , let me put it this way, you bought the fish from petco, petco buys the fish from ora , or whoever, the snowflakes and picasso or what ever they are are most likely from the same clutch and or parents, meaning inbreeding, just throwing it out there, not saying they wont breed or anything but theres a high chance there from same parents same clutch , inbreeding= no good fry !!! just think on it, i would probably go out and buy some other nice clowns from a different source and probably bigger and pair them up that way....just looking out thats all, no offense B)


No offense taken. You have a very good point of course. The two from Petco did come from different clutches. I do know that for sure. Now they could very well be from the same parents. Also, the two snowcassos obviously came from the same clutch and same parents as well. Like you stated, we still have a while before they are ready to breed, so like you said I would be smart to find other quality clowns from different breeders to pair them up with. I have toyed around with this idea already, but I'm taking it slow and steady. I'm in no hurry by any means and I'm taking in all the information that I can. Sometimes it's to much to process all at once. That is why I like using forums to get everyone's ideas whether I like them or not. constructive criticism is always good.

Also, thank you for you comments.
40 Gallon Breeder & 2 Biocube 14's
2x Aqua Clear 50 HOB/Penguin 550 Power Head/Koralia 425 & 550
T5 Lighting 2x 24 watts (10,000K, Actinic)
45 Pounds Live Rock and 40 Pounds Live Sand
http://s1202.photobu...61/smitty_1280/

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#14
smitty_1280

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Are you talking about sustainable aquatics? The ones that I call snowflakes kind of look like SA Fancy Snow (Amphiprion ocellaris) (http://www.sustainab...ns/?ParentId=44).


Yes that's SA they also have regular Snowflakes that look just like yours not in that list of designers. That's why I assumed they came from SA. I totally forgot about ORA and FishEye who also produce some beautiful snowflakes. We should do a side by side by side it would be pretty cool to see the differences :)


It would be cool to get a side by side pic of the snowflakes from the 3 different breeders to see the differences. I went to one of my favorite LFS's tonight. They had ORA and SA snowflakes and you could tell the difference. I believe it was the SA's that were darker (had more black to them) then the ORA. I could have that backwards as well.

I also added seachem purigen to the tanks tonight as well.
40 Gallon Breeder & 2 Biocube 14's
2x Aqua Clear 50 HOB/Penguin 550 Power Head/Koralia 425 & 550
T5 Lighting 2x 24 watts (10,000K, Actinic)
45 Pounds Live Rock and 40 Pounds Live Sand
http://s1202.photobu...61/smitty_1280/

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#15
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Not trying to hijack your thread or anything but lets do a side by side by side right here. I've got pics of SA and ORA. I'm sure Hyper will join in :)



Sustainable Aquatics

These two different ones are both Snowflakes (from the same parents)

Extreme Snowflake - Its difficult to see in the photos but these Extremes have an iridescent white head. You can see how the white changes from head to body and then the blue near the tail. The head is a different white that glows bluish.

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This is another Snowflake on the opposite end of the spectrum, lots of orange but still very beautiful. This was the only one that looked like this, totally unique pattern of white.

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ORA

This is a pair in my broodstock system that haven't laid yet.

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The male has always had those holes in his back fins. I don't know if they are genetic or caused by something in his life.

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#16
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We don't produce standard snowflakes here at our facility. But I can give you this:

ORA Adult Black Ice (from their website)
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FishEye Adult S'more
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#17
oceancube

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all very nice fish imo, just better to breed fish that are from different sources thats all no biggie,, i got some very nice dark black ice babies but i have noway of shooting pics like chris and hyper... but yeah very nice fish guys!!
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#18
smitty_1280

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Not trying to hijack your thread or anything but lets do a side by side by side right here. I've got pics of SA and ORA. I'm sure Hyper will join in :)


I don't consider this a hijack lol. I really appreciate all that you have to contribute by all means. I actually think it was really nice of you to some research and find those pics. Thank you. Those are some nice clowns.

We don't produce standard snowflakes here at our facility. But I can give you this:

ORA Adult Black Ice (from their website)
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FishEye Adult S'more
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Hyper, I really like your S'more clowns lol. They look really nice. Thank you for sharing.
40 Gallon Breeder & 2 Biocube 14's
2x Aqua Clear 50 HOB/Penguin 550 Power Head/Koralia 425 & 550
T5 Lighting 2x 24 watts (10,000K, Actinic)
45 Pounds Live Rock and 40 Pounds Live Sand
http://s1202.photobu...61/smitty_1280/

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#19
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heres a link to my version of the black ice, practically all black snowflake, very nice , dont mind the onyx she's just hanging around!!

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#20
smitty_1280

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heres a link to my version of the black ice, practically all black snowflake, very nice , dont mind the onyx she's just hanging around!!


Very nice black ice. Looks like a very active fish!
40 Gallon Breeder & 2 Biocube 14's
2x Aqua Clear 50 HOB/Penguin 550 Power Head/Koralia 425 & 550
T5 Lighting 2x 24 watts (10,000K, Actinic)
45 Pounds Live Rock and 40 Pounds Live Sand
http://s1202.photobu...61/smitty_1280/

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#21
oceancube

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Very nice black ice. Looks like a very active fish!

yeah they get very territorial even at very young ages! love all these dang fish its hard to see them go!!
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#22
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little hint for you. go to MOFIB. there is where alot of breeders go to buy and sell mature laying pairs. if you want to start practicing with a simple pair of perc's or occy that are already breeding, there is a guy who is selling like 14 pairs. decent prices for breeders. if not, wait a year or 2 for yours to grow up.

when i got into breeding, i went and purchased older and mature pairs. my rule was 3 years old or 3" so i know i wouldnt have to wait a long time to get results. if your wife is itching to breed
(no pun intended, lol!) then i would get her a simple pair to practice with. then if she is serious about the commitment, then you can think about building her a nice system with multiple tanks and sumps and have her house 14 pairs like me!! hehe


Rudi (oceancube) is right. its hard to sell the babies. i am selling off the remainder of my misbarred Rods Onyx babies to 2 lfs. :(

keep learning and ask questions. start off right and go slow cause there will come a time where you or your wife will get to a point of being burned out and may want to quit. if you go slow and do it right the first time, less mistakes and having to redo your system a few times to get larger. i think i did a good job in my setup. check my breeding thead and a few others for build ideas..if your wife is willing to go that far.
Alpha Corals is the best of them all! makes me sooo envious! hehe

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#23
smitty_1280

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little hint for you. go to MOFIB. there is where alot of breeders go to buy and sell mature laying pairs. if you want to start practicing with a simple pair of perc's or occy that are already breeding, there is a guy who is selling like 14 pairs. decent prices for breeders. if not, wait a year or 2 for yours to grow up.

when i got into breeding, i went and purchased older and mature pairs. my rule was 3 years old or 3" so i know i wouldnt have to wait a long time to get results. if your wife is itching to breed
(no pun intended, lol!) then i would get her a simple pair to practice with. then if she is serious about the commitment, then you can think about building her a nice system with multiple tanks and sumps and have her house 14 pairs like me!! hehe


Rudi (oceancube) is right. its hard to sell the babies. i am selling off the remainder of my misbarred Rods Onyx babies to 2 lfs. :(

keep learning and ask questions. start off right and go slow cause there will come a time where you or your wife will get to a point of being burned out and may want to quit. if you go slow and do it right the first time, less mistakes and having to redo your system a few times to get larger. i think i did a good job in my setup. check my breeding thead and a few others for build ideas..if your wife is willing to go that far.
Alpha Corals is the best of them all! makes me sooo envious! hehe



Thanks for the advice. I will take a look at that web site later and also at the threads you recommended. I do appreciate everything that is being said.

I was able to get my hands on an established 29 gallon system today. I put most of the stuff in my 40 breeder and I'm not sure if I'm going to leave the 29 up or not. But more importatnly there was a mated pair of clowns in there. I'm not sure what kind they are as far as being occy or percs lol. They have apparently already had at least one clutch that hatched in his DT. Here are some pics of them.

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Edited by smitty_1280, 19 November 2011 - 01:47 PM.

40 Gallon Breeder & 2 Biocube 14's
2x Aqua Clear 50 HOB/Penguin 550 Power Head/Koralia 425 & 550
T5 Lighting 2x 24 watts (10,000K, Actinic)
45 Pounds Live Rock and 40 Pounds Live Sand
http://s1202.photobu...61/smitty_1280/

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#24
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Alpha Corals is the best of them all! makes me sooo envious! hehe


Thanks brotha! I've got to get some pics up of the 90 tanks I got today ;)
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#25
smitty_1280

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Thanks brotha! I've got to get some pics up of the 90 tanks I got today ;)


Very cool. What will you do with 90 tanks lol. I went to your website last night, very nice. Do you sell for Sustainable Aquatics, or provide fish for them? This may be a silly questions lol.
40 Gallon Breeder & 2 Biocube 14's
2x Aqua Clear 50 HOB/Penguin 550 Power Head/Koralia 425 & 550
T5 Lighting 2x 24 watts (10,000K, Actinic)
45 Pounds Live Rock and 40 Pounds Live Sand
http://s1202.photobu...61/smitty_1280/

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