Vic's 180 Gallon Vivarium (previously a paludarium)

[Withers]

i know its a little early, but what else is on the list besides a group of celestial danios?

 

A group of Cories, a group of some type of tetras, some killifish (to eat all the fruit flies that fall in the water), and maybe some type of Gourami?

 

Are you going to have more than 2 frogs?

 

Way way more. I'm starting with 6, and they'll multiply on their own from there. I might get a second type of frog but I'm still undecided. I'm leaning towards sticking with just one, but it'll depend on how shy they turn out to be.

[Zer0]

Are you ever gonna hand feef these guys or play with them or something. Or is this a "See, but don't touch" kind of setup? lol.

[.Newman.]

cories are cool, i was about to suggest them. if you go with smaller species like panda, you might get more in there, but i dont see why you would need more than 7 of them. unless you like a big group of catfish? its possible with cories.

 

what are the types of tetra that you think you want in this enclosure?

 

Tetras and most other fish will eat the fruitflies that fall, so the killifish isn't exactly needed unless you really like them. they are carnivorous and the larger species would go for a small frog if it ever gets in the water. same goes for gourami. idk if gourami would work here, but since they are often used in community tanks, i can't see why they would be a danger to your other fish or frogs. choose peaceful species, but IMO a male pearl gourami would look real nice in your vivarium.

 

Start making a fish list with the numbers of each fish you want. then use this program:

http://aqadvisor.com/

to see how stocked you are.

If the body of water has no other filtration than the live plants, you will want to go very very light on fish stocking. probably no big gourami then.

 

you do have water circulation in there right?

[Withers]

Are you ever gonna hand feef these guys or play with them or something. Or is this a "See, but don't touch" kind of setup? lol.

 

It's mostly a "do not touch" setup, a lot like a reef tank

 

cories are cool, i was about to suggest them. if you go with smaller species like panda, you might get more in there, but i dont see why you would need more than 7 of them. unless you like a big group of catfish? its possible with cories.

 

what are the types of tetra that you think you want in this enclosure?

 

Tetras and most other fish will eat the fruitflies that fall, so the killifish isn't exactly needed unless you really like them. they are carnivorous and the larger species would go for a small frog if it ever gets in the water. same goes for gourami. idk if gourami would work here, but since they are often used in community tanks, i can't see why they would be a danger to your other fish or frogs. choose peaceful species, but IMO a male pearl gourami would look real nice in your vivarium.

 

Start making a fish list with the numbers of each fish you want. then use this program:

http://aqadvisor.com/

to see how stocked you are.

If the body of water has no other filtration than the live plants, you will want to go very very light on fish stocking. probably no big gourami then.

 

you do have water circulation in there right?

 

I like the Panda Cories For tetras we were thinking rummynoses. We were planning on some type of dwarf gourami, but I definitely don't want to choose anything that might go after a frog.

[supernip]

www.rainforestderps.com

 

this transfers you to green peace

[.Newman.]

panda cories are great. i have 7 in my 40 gal planted and they are awesome to watch and are very active both day and night. i recommend around 6 for your vivarium. get them later though, as they are rather sensitive to water parameters, and prefer water that is slightly cooler than 80F. (aq advisor will tell you the water temp you need to house all your fish well).

 

dwarf gourami are good choices, were you thinking just one colorful male? or females for him as well? Again, i'd recommend only the male if you don't have the filtration to support a full community.

 

Rummy nose tetras are nice and a school of 6+ would look interesting. but they do not add all that much color (amazing fish though). in addition to them, do about a similar number of the celestial danios. if you need more visible red color, you may want to check out chili rasbora. they are perhaps some of the best red fish you can get for a planted tank. small too, so you can have a decent school of them.

[d9hp]

Way way more. I'm starting with 6, and they'll multiply on their own from there. I might get a second type of frog but I'm still undecided. I'm leaning towards sticking with just one, but it'll depend on how shy they turn out to be.

 

That's awesome. Is there a point where you'll have to sell the offspring off?

 

I find myself thinking about how cool this thing is. I know nothing about frogs but want some now...just after I get a pair of green monitors and a macaw.

 

I'm definitely staying tuned. Those plants you have are really incredible too.

[Withers]

panda cories are great. i have 7 in my 40 gal planted and they are awesome to watch and are very active both day and night. i recommend around 6 for your vivarium. get them later though, as they are rather sensitive to water parameters, and prefer water that is slightly cooler than 80F. (aq advisor will tell you the water temp you need to house all your fish well).

 

dwarf gourami are good choices, were you thinking just one colorful male? or females for him as well? Again, i'd recommend only the male if you don't have the filtration to support a full community.

 

Rummy nose tetras are nice and a school of 6+ would look interesting. but they do not add all that much color (amazing fish though). in addition to them, do about a similar number of the celestial danios. if you need more visible red color, you may want to check out chili rasbora. they are perhaps some of the best red fish you can get for a planted tank. small too, so you can have a decent school of them.

 

Probably just a single male for the gourami. Thanks for the help

 

That's awesome. Is there a point where you'll have to sell the offspring off?

 

I find myself thinking about how cool this thing is. I know nothing about frogs but want some now...just after I get a pair of green monitors and a macaw.

 

I'm definitely staying tuned. Those plants you have are really incredible too.

 

Yeah I'll eventually sell off the offspring

 

The frogs are really easy to care for. The vivarium itself is pretty much self-sufficient (if you use a misting system), so all you need to do is culture fruit flies once or twice a month to feed them. You can find more info and stuff here: www.dendroboard.com

[supernip]

throw in cherry shrimps, breed a disgusting army of them

[.Newman.]

throw in cherry shrimps, breed a disgusting army of them

 

definitely this. once your plants grow in densely, the cherries will be able to multiply like mad due to increased hiding space(mostly for the babies since all fish like eating them). cherry shrimp are great and insanely hardy.

[pismo_reefer]

Super nice Paludarium.

[keydiver]

very nice broms.

 

Are you going with a tinc. species or a thumbnail?

 

I have tinc. azeurus, and they're REALLY hardy. If you get some microfauna rolling in the soil, it won;t even matter if you forget/skip feedings. I have giant orage iso's, dwarf white iso's, springtails, and local isopods all established in my viv.

[Withers]

I'm going for Ranitomeya I'm afraid all this vertical space would be wasted on tincs. Plus I have a soft spot for Ranitomeya.

 

So far all I have are your typical white springtails, but there's a show in Raleigh coming up at the first of September that I'm planning on picking up a bunch more bugs.

 

I guess I never posted this pic. I rearranged the broms and ferns, I think they look a lot more natural now (and will all get sufficient light to keep their colors now)

 

[Deleted User 6]

this transfers you to green peace

 

that's the joke, genius

[pismo_reefer]

That looks a lot more natural.

I like it.

[Deleted User 6]

Vic, this is boring. When are you adding turtles?

[eschaton]

Man, I'm late to this thread, but hopefully not too late.

 

I love your scaping. That said, I'm a bit let down that you're looking to throw so many Southeast Asian fish into a tank with Amazonian frogs.

 

I have a lot of experience with freshwater and planted tanks, although I don't have any right now. I'd say you should go with some combination of the following.

 

Tetras - Cardinals are of course the bomb. I've always been partial to Ember Tetras as well. On the whole I think the group is pretty blah though, as the fish themselves have little personality beyond schooling

 

 

Endlers - Not quite as prolific as guppies, but still have a tendency to overgrow a tank. Still, they're great for a biotope.

 

 

Pencilfish - These guys are great. I had a small group of Nannostomus beckfordi in my old tank for awhile. The mating colors of the males are exquisite, and it's fun to watch them compete for the females. They successfully bred for me, although I never knew it until I noticed two half-grown juvies.

 

 

Dwarf Chiclids - the tried and true, for a tank of this size, are of course Apistos and Rams. A pair of either is far better than a Gourami IMHO.

 

 

Corys - I'm always of the opinion that the smallest cories are the best in little tanks, which gives you C. habrosus, C. hastatus, and C. pygmaeus

 

 

Otos: If you water is getting enough light to grow algae, these little guys are a must Yeah, they are drab, but they are amusing to watch - and if you're lucky you can snag some zebra otos.

 

 

Killies. Although the African species get the best billing, there are a number of South American ones you can get from a killie hobbyist. Anything from the Rivulus genus would be fine.

 

 

Snails: Personally I would consider stocking Pomacea bridgesii in this sort of tank. There's a few pluses, and two possible negatives. First, it fits the biotope. Second, they eat dead plant matter and detritus, and with high humidity, they'll probably venture out of the water a little. Lastly, they always lay their eggs out of water, which means you'd be able to watch them lay eggs somewhere more natural than the typical glass lid on a tank. The downsides? Well, the PH might be too low for snails (meaning eroded shells at the very least. And there is a slight chance a snail could blunder into the frog eggs and eat them, although I think that's unlikely

 

 

One last suggestion - for the land consider a gecko of the genus Sphaerodactylus. Tiny, could live off the same food as the darts, and native to the same areas. Many are quite pretty as well.

 

 

[.Newman.]

those are all cool suggestions.

My favorite from those would be to include otocinclus in this vivarium. a group of about 5 would barely contribute to the bioload and would service the plants and glass well. don't add them until you have lots of algae in the tank, as they may starve otherwise. not all otos will accept prepared foods like vegetable flakes and algae wafer so its hit and miss if you introduce them too early. But they are really useful, nice contrast to the fish choice, hardy once in an established environment with live plants, and are interesting fish to notice in the water in your community.

 

as far as cories go, the pygmy varieties would be lost on a 50 gal system unless he stocks tons (which would give an epic shoal effect), so its better to keep things as noticeable and low on the bioload as possible. pandas come to mind as they are slightly larger.

[keydiver]

Yeah...I figured you weren't going to do tincs just because of all the vert. My azeurus actually climb all over my exo terra though.

 

For fish, def get some oto's, and cherry shrimp for sure. They're so easy and they really stand out against the greens of plants, probably my favorite freshwater species.

 

Also, once I split my cultures, I'd be happy to hook you up with some of the harder to find iso's, I should be getting purples and giant canyons in sometime this week.

[eschaton]

as far as cories go, the pygmy varieties would be lost on a 50 gal system unless he stocks tons (which would give an epic shoal effect), so its better to keep things as noticeable and low on the bioload as possible. pandas come to mind as they are slightly larger.

 

I dunno. Given his feature species are thumbnails, I think he should concentrate on smaller fish that don't overshadow them. OTOH, when I had a 55-gallon planted tank I always had trouble keeping track of fish - never saw a dead fish, and with so many small ones, it was easy for them to drop off (say due to parasites, which are a much bigger problem in freshwater), without noticing.

 

I would agree Otos are a must, at minimum. I'd also put in a mated pair of something insectivorous (apistos, rams, or killies) in order to clean up whatever fruit flies and cultured isopods and springtails fall into the water - though they'd probably need to be target fed as well.

 

For fish, def get some oto's, and cherry shrimp for sure. They're so easy and they really stand out against the greens of plants, probably my favorite freshwater species.

 

I love cherries, although I think I like the yellow shrimp variety even more. It's a shame there are (discounting ugly ghost shrimp which die quickly) no Neotropical shrimp species in the hobby.

 

That said, once you have them in your tank, you basically have to build your stocking around them. Aside from Otos and some Plecs, just about everything will eat the babies (even tiny Boraras, or male Endlers). And virtually everything over two inches either tries to eat the adults, or freaks them out enough they go into hiding. I think they're best alone or in a mixed "garden" tank with otos, other shrimp, dwarf crays, and snails.

[HecticDialectics]

I think his southeast asian fish are cooler than any of the ones in those pictures.

[.Newman.]

cherry shrimp do just fine with numerous community fish. the fish also serve as a check to their population, but some babies will survive and grow to adult hood. You're not going to see them everywhere with lots of fish around, that's definitely true, but they will be in there, and in good numbers if the vegetation is nice and dense. The cherry shrimp should probably be introduced earlier to allow them to start breeding well.

 

Aiming for keeping the community non-aggressive and less likely to attack frogs that fall in the water, i think apistos, rams, and larger killies *might* be harmful. plus the other omnivorous fish being stocked are well capable of eating any insects that fall in the water. the gourami might be there for larger inverts like isopods. However if this really is a vivarium aiming for a biotope, then gourami is out among other things.

[supernip]

grow botflies imo

[Withers]

so many options!

 

I hadn't really considered doing a biotope since the plants aren't all native to Peru (which is where the frogs will be from). I like those options though. Where you would guys recommend finding some of those harder to find fish?

[supernip]

have you considered a decaying cat carcass biotope? street cred and style points