Peroxide saves my Tank! With pics to Prove It!

[brandon429]

excellent feedback

 

I found it ironic with all the focused phosphate removal and power uv some algae still popped up that's funny. They are everywhere, always getting in and making use of what's there.

 

 

 

*edit to re recognize poster from early initial pages 4 yrs ago advising use of 35% and I balked due to safety. You are 100% right. Be careful but enjoy going through invaders like a buzz saw you were visionary man. I gargle 3% its so slow in my tank its useless now.

 

It doesn't get used much after I saw no algae in my tank could develop an immunity to 35% and still is no where near...no where at all able to withstand 35 or even 15% down mixed.

 

 

Its amazing all peroxide threads are 99.95% 3% and get this much weight and outcome

 

Anyone who tried 3% and found aggressive grow back or non kill was showing up to the quarter mile running 88 octane vs alcohol on the guy in the next lane. Used correctly, 35% is the ace in the hole for those who aren't playing or those who have unique invader challenges. The point is an entirely new treatment option realm exists for darn good reason

 

 

The biggest takeaway I have from every peroxide thread is that I stopped red gelidium and green hair algae in my tank by fighting the biomass and retraining it to die and not come back, taking no inventory or measure of nutrients along the way as was told was required. I now have zero gelidium and it can't come back per the rules of obligate hitchhikers, and the GHA although ever present in the environment has gone away as if I starved the algae out. I spot apply algae never, the last gha from neglect was years ago. My tank drains are to burn clean the insides of the glass only. Peroxide was not an ongoing bandaid in need of repeat, all the naysayers were wrong and we can look back on this paragraph in five years and see how it panned out. Using 35% was key in taking decisive action. 3% while safer does allow for more unresponsive targets like bryopsis, so its ok to start with 3% and work up only if needed. Bryopsis will not survive repeated applications of 35% direct to target. Neomeris annulata will, its currently ranked as the worst invader Ive seen.

[PorkchopExpress]

They are a welcome sight indeed. Anything that will outcompete dinos is ok in my tank, I see that now. I used to hate GHA now I welcome it...in small doses of course! I can attribute it to my light period and extra feeding. Once dinos were visually absent I ramped up my lighting schedule to what it was pre-dinos: my blues are back to 11 hour and whites to 7 hours. I've also been feeding a lot more as well. When I had dinos I cut my fish's food intake a lot. Now I'm feeding them normally again and I've added more fish. When I first got the dinos I had 7 fish, by the time got the UV I was down to 3 fish. They all died somewhere along the line in my fight against dinos.

 

So now my tank is back to it's regular form, normal lighting period and normal feeding schedule. So I kind of expected and hoped to see "problem" algae come back at some point only this time I don't regard them as being too much of a problem anymore now that i know what the word "problem" really means!

[SquishyFishy]

After my first year with great success, I am now in the death throws of red cyano or maybe the dinos or both. I am in a self contained IM 16 no way to use a huge sterilizer and the one that fits in my back fuge is small and has been on for 2 months but don't know the Watts, I'll pull it out and see tomorrow. I run charcoal/chemipure elite (changed every month) and floss (changed every week). I also run a skimmer. The red stuff is scrubbed off with brush and all manner of cleaning tool!, then I change my filter material and it still comes back next day. Have read all your threads on this and started the blackout tonight. I know I am probably feeding the tank too much and definitely the fish too much. I normally do weekly or 10 day water changes and all my corals are happy campers. No brown stuff on them as yet, but it's slowly taking over the LR now. I vacuum the sand bed with the WC.

 

I will report what happens with the blackout. I plan on doing the 3 day off 4 hr blue on 3 times. I want this stuff out if even for a couple months. Hope I can at least keep it at bay. I ordered Dr. Tim's Eco-Balance and first dose today. It's fairly new on the market and has 1 review on Amazon:

 

JM says:

I used it in my 3 year established 90 gallon reef tank. I had a bad cyno outbreak after some long overdue tank maintenance. Within 2 weeks of usage the cyno is almost completely gone. My corals are very happy and even though I went full strength during the initial treatment my corals and fish had no negative reactions. Before I added the Eco balance I siphoned out half the sand in my tank and used regular hose water to clean it and remove all the detritus. I usually use RODI and I'm sure most of the cyno came from that rinse. The rest of the sand was stirred up and I siphoned off as much waste as I could find. Afterwards I added the siphoned sand back into the tank. and repeated the process of stirring and syphoning. I also did a 50% water change with RODI water.

[brandon429]

I think that is a fair plan, having read about those products there's no harm in trying that. Post full tank shot

 

gfo use or alt phosphate binding is the number one method for cyano control, combined with use of turbo snails

 

blackout is a form of direct action on the invader so it does have a good following online, if you will pair that with some gfo use and hand siphon remove the cyano on day 2 of the blackout it w give you a better chance

 

the blackout works best to prevent regrowth, do a tank cleaning before imo. if it was my tank with cyano id skip blackout and just go grazers and phosphate binding tested with salifert or hanna.

[SquishyFishy]

I have no room in the rear fuge compartment for any other device, so how will I attempt the phosphate binding, I assume you mean a reactor? I have used pond matrix back there to help but I took it out to put in the UV. I guess the little 7 watt UV is useless even in my 16 gal.? Reading up on Bulk Reef Supplies gfo article now. I take it the better part would be to remove the UV and introduce a reactor.

[SquishyFishy]

Well spent nearly 2 hrs maintenance, most of the trouble I feel was coming from the rear compartment fuge area, so all is spotless now. All pumps clean and shiny, syphoned as much as possible out, scrubbed and bladed, stirred up sand bed to syphon all the red gunk. It looks pretty good now. I have only the floss pad in the filter baskets now. And I ordered this: Two Little Fishes NPX Bioplastics Reactor 150 w/ Media 200ml can hang on the back and has excellent reviews. Hoping I can keep the cyano at bay until it arrives. Even my skimmer is spanking clean and working very well. So took the tank off the black out for the time being. What do you think?

[brandon429]

That sounds ok, and for my tank id actually just do that a few times before moving on to the blackout. if you are at wits end of manual removal and want to press on a blackout is fair

 

the UV is best when oversized, that one may just not be gutsy enough. slowing the speed passing through it helps to amplify. given the choice of typical size uv or phosphate scrubbing id choose the po4 scrubbing

[SquishyFishy]

Good. That's what I'll do then. Corals/fish are lovin it. They always look good but didn't realize how happy they'd be with the good general cleaning.....my bad as it is the first major cleaning/scrapping of the rear compartment in a year. Saw a video this morning that advocates just sand no gravel, as mine is combo, maybe I'll consider removing the gravel (trapping detritus) I just hate the sand when it always snow globes the tank. The guy in video has all the equipment and couldn't win, but when gravel was removed, bingo.

 

Water change ended up being about 40% so water quality is near perfect.

[rangertex]

i have had huge success with hydrogen peroxide. I suffered a case of lazy reefing and eventually this turned into some nasty algaes. After being progressive and fighting it, I was left with only two rocks still covered in what i assumed was Cyano. I pulled them out and let them soak in some Ro water and a few glups of hydrogen peroxide. After a few minutes i placed them in a new RO bucket and return them into the tank. Now im left with a nice and clean tank again.

[Siejuban]

What brand of peroxide is suggested? and dip the rock in RO water or tank water in a container with peroxide, which is the best?

[SquishyFishy]

can't pull mine out at all, corals all over the rock glued in tight....just will have to do what everyone suggests and fight as best I can.

[brandon429]

Roland's use of peroxide in a sub gallon tank was well documented, this tank is approaching totm status

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/355416-another-07-pico/page-3

[GTi]

Hi.

 

I have a 34 gallon mixed reef, link is in my signature. I have used peroxide on algae on frag plugs with success. I now have what I think is Gelidium on my rocks. It started a few month back when I added some snails to the tank and I noticed the algae other shells. The seller said they had never had a problem with it spreading so I didn't worry bout it. Wrong decision!

 

I now have small patches over much of my rock work along with a few sprigs of GHA. I make my own RODI water, feed the 3 fish sparingly, change filter floss 2-3 times per week, 5 gallon water change most weeks (except when traveling) and vacuum the sand bed. I am currently also running a BRS reactor with GFO which seems to have reduced the GHA somewhat but the Gelidium is definitely spreading.

 

I am wondering what treatment options there are and whether dosing the tank water is an option. I have an RBTA and a Peppermint Shrimp. The only other stock are soft, LPS and SPS coral, Colonistas, Ceriths, Nerites, Nassarius and Astrea snails. I will be adding some Chaeto to my media basket later this week and a couple of Turbo snails tonight.

 

I have 3% peroxide on hand but will look in to whether I can get anything stronger locally.

 

The worst rock has my Pink Lemonade Acro on it and while it can be removed, it will be tricky to treat and rinse.

 

Suggestions welcome!

 

Thanks!

 

Main 'problem rock':

 

 

Detail of same rock:

 

 

Detail of another rock:

 

[brandon429]

easy easy win

 

you made it a predictable win by:

 

acting early, cardinal rule of do you want your tank wrecked or not for any invader.

 

no other signs of cross eutrophication; i know you mentioned in your pm there may be some GHA but its not evident, therefore its not bad. look back at some of the other pics pre treatment your po4 management is working comparatively and the tank is clean enough, no full stripping required.

 

 

Why is their gelidium in the presence of clean water and excellent phosphate balance?

 

why is there algae on fijiian reefs that test for even lower phosphates? because algae is natural and governed in the wild by grazing, not trace nutrients. no grazers is +algae on a real reef, even in waters your HACH would show as outstanding. so its no surprise than an obligate hitchhiker that rode his way in has set up shop.

 

Once killed, you could spike your po4 and sure get GHA again lol but never, never gelidium its biomass dependent totally.

 

these fit the class and treatment indicated by obligate hitchikers-eg ignore nutrients and frizzle fry them. i suspect 3% treatment as we discussed w have 8/10 chance of fully working, if you did any higher dosage as a drain and treat or an external treat it w be gone yesterday.

 

 

cant wait for the follow up pics, a little over a week after the first emersed treatment the hot pink will begin/ravenous hunger by any clean up crews (how you wanted them to behave when first introduced lol)

 

thanks for the pics we were getting stale on about 9 threads lol. nothing rules like after pics. and then 8 mo after pics, we're expecting a few easy spot treats after all its the devil in your tank lol./

for reference, the giant old rc thread pico reef pest algae challenge thread has about fifty before and after pics looking exactly like this, talk about an easy beat.

[brandon429]

your known sensitive is the anem, this thread is a fine reference for them in peroxide settings and I dont know of any losses only angry nems, when full tank treatments were done which is not how we are doing.

 

gelidium is meaner than that; it commands no dilution.

 

so if we can nearly fully prevent or heartily lessen any anem contact the only thing he'll dislike here is emerson, so squirt him if needed. mist him.

its funny because first treatment emersed even with higher percentages looks like you are putting water on the target-no fizzing action occurs. days go by and not much happens, they seem bulletproof.

 

but its coming, gelidium and thick bodied macros in this group have a 7-9 day delay like clockwork.

 

gelidium and fellow rhodophyta aren't catalase positive so they wont bubble much when treated (unless resident bacteria happen to be)

 

but that also means the free radicals are going to town unabated, catalase bubbling like on our wounds is a way of working free radicals to lessen their cellular assualt, its produced in smaller amounts to handle metabolic peroxide generated in most respiring cells from the animal kingdom.

 

in one week the bright pink party begins and thats the sign of gelidium on the way out. what used to be the worst invader ever is now preferable to most because its so easy to beat.

 

 

thanks for posting

B

[GTi]

Hi Brandon. That sounds very positive. I'm glad! Just picked up 3 small turbo snails who can only help too!

 

So what I'll start with is spot treating the algae with the rocks out of the tank. Apply the 3% peroxide. Leave it for 3 minutes and lightly rinse with tank water then replace the rock and wait for the magic?

 

Would I be better spreading the treatments over 3 days so less peroxide (that accidentally isn't rinsed off) gets in the tank water? Do you have a feel for what level of ml/gallon peroxide to tank water is safe for anemones and shrimp?

 

Thanks!

[brandon429]

Yes to all

 

I think your anem could survive one mil per ten gallons straight into the tank so runoff w be trace comparatively. Its good to be specific about the collateral risks I like to pose percentage chances based on outcome predictions

 

The shrimp has an 80% chance of survival

they aren't the sensitive species like lysmata but I've read of a few peps dying perhaps due other confounding factors like large wc kicks up waste kicks up ammonia who knows but 80-90 likely ok with your stated plan

 

The anemone I give 100% chance of surviving the plan as I don't recall a single loss. The only hard stressed one I recall was here but maybe somewhere first 20 pages been a while now heh

 

Fun to have the thread going again thanks for posting up a nice challenge. Somebody toss us a mean dino invasion pic and we'll do something hard.

[GTi]

Thanks! I will acclimate the turbos tonight and start treatment tomorrow evening. I will post details as this may benefit others in the future - hopefully in a positive way!

[GTi]

Update.

 

I took out the rock with the most Gelidium on it. I picked off the largest snails and put them back in the tank. I treated the right side of the rock (less Gelidium) with a squirty bottle of 3% peroxide. I waited a minute and resprayed it. After a total of 2 minutes, I rinsed it lightly with a baster with salt water in it. Tipped it over to drain any pooling peroxide and put it back in the tank.

 

Observations. The rock was making fizzing sounds where treated so I know the peroxide was working. The Pink Lemonade acro slimed a lot while exposed to the air but stopped after a short while back in the tank. It has been about 30 minutes since treatment now and everything in the tank looks fine. Pink Lemonade has polyps back out already. Anemone and shrimp seem normal. My Rasta Zoas look a bit annoyed - they are open but slightly domed and the skirts are mainly retracted. They have always been a bit fussy anyway. A couple of mini brittle stars were collateral damage. The skimmer went nuts and had to be switched off for 30 minutes. Most importantly, some of the Gelidium has already started to change color - the edges of a few pieces are a bright orange/pink! I will see if it develops further and try to get a photo up later.

 

Here's the rock out for treatment (not much to see really!):

 

[brandon429]

excellent documentation, this is also a great demonstration of the predictablility of cycling and mini cycling

 

check out that reef in the air thats awesome lol. the longest ive left my full pico drained was 30 mins lps and sps. if some micro benthics got the zap during an external treatment yep thats the darwin way, natural selection is up to and including strong oxidizer. they could have randomly been deeper in the rock but nope these were the escapists heh

not unlike a fish picking some off, some make it some dont! they deal easier with the 1:10 tankwide dosing but we had to go strong here.

[GTi]

So the treatment was about an hour ago now, maybe slightly more. There has been a notable change in the colour of the treated side of the rock:

 

 

Close up:

 

 

All inhabitants are happy and the Rastas look a bit less annoyed and are closer to their normal appearance.

 

Left hand side will be treated tomorrow. Stay tuned!

[brandon429]

hey thats way faster than predicted lol but it means the p3% was sufficient~

 

one of the smartest plans any reef keeper can do is to make the areas of the tank accessible for just this kind of reason. you could have GFO'd your corals into powder with -.0007 phosphate levels and those obligate hitchikers w still keep on going, sometimes we just have to get hands dirty.

 

im all for never needing peroxide if one can engineer and maintain that, but have a backup plan, and one is in use here.

 

I wish someone would have told me years ago to have a backup plan for red mushroom wrecking my whole tank lol

a viable one would have been: hey dude, dont put those in a small tank where the rocks are crammed and totally not accessible

[GTi]

 

one of the smartest plans any reef keeper can do is to make the areas of the tank accessible for just this kind of reason. you could have GFO'd your corals into powder with -.0007 phosphate levels and those obligate hitchikers w still keep on going, sometimes we just have to get hands dirty.

 

 

I wanted my rockscape to be easy to remove so I could frag more easily - being able to treat algae outside the tank is an added benefit!

 

I was hoping to knock the Gelidium out with GFO but it is spreading despite the reactor. I was also hoping that as coraline started growing, it would keep the Gelidium from spreading but in one patch I can see where it is overgrowing on the coraline. Interestingly where the Pink Lemonade is encrusting, the Gelidium dies back a short distance from the growth - it tunes the same bright colour as when treated with peroxide.

[Kellysnano]

Hello, yikes I joined the peroxide club in a moment of frustration today! I had tons of algae earlier this year which I had made some progress on but one large rock I was still having trouble with. Also this particle rock had a few aiptasia that were growing. Today one of the aiptasia stung (or whatever it is they do) my duncan. So - I pulled off the corals I could and then pulled the large rock out. First I took a hammer and smashed it in half and disposed of the end with the aiptasia. Then I figured since it was out I may as well take care of the algae. I threw it in a bucket with about 2 gallons of tank water and about 1 cup of peroxide. It soaked in there for a while as I cleaned my tank. I also threw a few of the corals that were on that rock into a container with tank water and some peroxide and let them hang out there for a while. Everything is back in and I actually much prefer the look of the tank with a big chunk of that rock gone. So - now I am assuming there will be not only algae die off but as well die off from whatever worms and stuff that were in the rock. Also lots of bacteria from the sand was stirred up when I pulled the big rock out. Should I just do a couple of water changes over the next few days to counter that? There seems to be tons of white stringy stuff coming of the rock and corals I treated. Thanks!

[brandon429]

Yes I would be doing repetitive water changing and testing ammonia from a non API kit just to make sure. The sliming they can recover from typically

 

Can you post a tank shot to see it anything looks untoward, tank pics often present hidden details