reeftankguy Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Wow this thread is almost as cool as animalmaster's Not even close! So post up some FTS build pictures Link to comment
RayWhisperer Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 Page 1 has a slideshow. No build pics. All I did was drill a hole in chamber 1 and install a pump and return. Just waiting out an extended cycle now, since everything was completely clean and dead. Link to comment
spanko Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The Rock Of Gibralter of the Pico world. Link to comment
RayWhisperer Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 DO NOT EVER START A TANK WITH DEAD EVERYTHING! I offer this as a word of warning to anyone who may be considering it. I chose to do so because I really liked the one rock for it's size and shape. The sand was from a fellow N-R member and around 2 years old, still in the bag. The cycle is weak in comparison to a cycle from uncured LR. However, progression is extremely slow. I understand the process, and know why it's taking so long. I also know it will be 6 to 12 months before the rock contains any substantial anaerobic bacteria colonies. So, I'm afraid stocking will have to remain extremely light, even coral wise, for the first year. This is proving to be a frustrating path. I want to start stocking already. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 buy an extra rock that's actually live and stick it in there for a month or two Link to comment
RayWhisperer Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 I had some rubble and a nylon knee high stocking with some sand from an established tank in for 3 weeks. I took it all out hoping it had seeded the existing rock enough. I also didn't want the rubble and sand handling all the limited bio load. Thus starving or limiting the growth on the one rock. Link to comment
Formula462 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 buy an extra rock that's actually live and stick it in there for a month or two my buddy bought a "feature" rock that wasn't live. It definitely cured quicker once he added several other well cured rocks. Once it came around and started showing coraline and pods and what not, he ditched the helper rocks. It looks nice, but not as nice as yours. Link to comment
Deleted User 6 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Did you fix your scaping? I hope so. Link to comment
RayWhisperer Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 my buddy bought a "feature" rock that wasn't live. It definitely cured quicker once he added several other well cured rocks. Once it came around and started showing coraline and pods and what not, he ditched the helper rocks. It looks nice, but not as nice as yours.Was that his only rock? As I said. I didn't want the cured rock and sand to do the majority of the work in biological activity. My goal was to allow it to lightly "seed" the existing rock only. Did you fix your scaping? I hope so.Well, I looked to your tank for inspiration. Clearly, I looked in the wrong place. As all I saw was "sophomoric", at best. Link to comment
Needreefunds Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Well, I looked to your tank for inspiration. Clearly, I looked in the wrong place. As all I saw was "sophomoric", at best. Ouch Link to comment
cdelicath Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I had some rubble and a nylon knee high stocking with some sand from an established tank in for 3 weeks. So you just happened to have knee high stockings laying around huh.... Link to comment
spanko Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Was that his only rock? As I said. I didn't want the cured rock and sand to do the majority of the work in biological activity. My goal was to allow it to lightly "seed" the existing rock only. In my reading bacterial populations can double as quickly as every 9.8 minutes. There are 3 phases to bacterial growth. Lag phase........"a period of slow growth when the cells are adapting to the high-nutrient environment and preparing for fast growth." (high nutrient environment being related to the difference in the environment from which they came to the environment which they now are in. Like from the air into the water, from the ocean into our tank etc.) Logarithmic phase...."(log phase), also known as the exponential phase. The log phase is marked by rapid exponential growth. The rate at which cells grow during this phase is known as the growth rate (k), and the time it takes the cells to double is known as the generation time (g). During log phase, nutrients are metabolised at maximum speed until one of the nutrients is depleted and starts limiting growth." Stationary phase....... "and is caused by depleted nutrients. The cells reduce their metabolic activity and consume non-essential cellular proteins. The stationary phase is a transition from rapid growth to a stress response state". So to me the time factor in growth rate seems to be moot and the real factor to be concerned with is the population size required to deal with the available nutrients. A low nutrient environment will reach a maximum population size more quickly than a higher nutrient environment because it will require a larger population to reach balance. So I have written and quoted all of that just to give you a basis for my belief that your tank, even though your goal was to "lightly seed" the rock with bacteria doesn't seem to me to be to be a weak cycle or even a slow cycle in terms of bacterial growth. Again this is my understanding of the reading I have done and I am open to discussion that shows where my thought process could be amiss. Hope that makes some sense. Link to comment
Deleted User 6 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Well, I looked to your tank for inspiration. Clearly, I looked in the wrong place. As all I saw was "sophomoric", at best. hi5! Link to comment
Abby09 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Just a real quick question, what optics did you go with on the light? Link to comment
RayWhisperer Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 So you just happened to have knee high stockings laying around huh.... Actually, I got them from Walgreens on my way to my buddies house to collec the sand and party. Yes, Fish Geeks partying with sand and nylons. It was a hell of a good time. In my reading bacterial populations can double as quickly as every 9.8 minutes.There are 3 phases to bacterial growth. Lag phase........"a period of slow growth when the cells are adapting to the high-nutrient environment and preparing for fast growth." (high nutrient environment being related to the difference in the environment from which they came to the environment which they now are in. Like from the air into the water, from the ocean into our tank etc.) Logarithmic phase...."(log phase), also known as the exponential phase. The log phase is marked by rapid exponential growth. The rate at which cells grow during this phase is known as the growth rate (k), and the time it takes the cells to double is known as the generation time (g). During log phase, nutrients are metabolised at maximum speed until one of the nutrients is depleted and starts limiting growth." Stationary phase....... "and is caused by depleted nutrients. The cells reduce their metabolic activity and consume non-essential cellular proteins. The stationary phase is a transition from rapid growth to a stress response state". So to me the time factor in growth rate seems to be moot and the real factor to be concerned with is the population size required to deal with the available nutrients. A low nutrient environment will reach a maximum population size more quickly than a higher nutrient environment because it will require a larger population to reach balance. So I have written and quoted all of that just to give you a basis for my belief that your tank, even though your goal was to "lightly seed" the rock with bacteria doesn't seem to me to be to be a weak cycle or even a slow cycle in terms of bacterial growth. Again this is my understanding of the reading I have done and I am open to discussion that shows where my thought process could be amiss. Hope that makes some sense. Although I've never put much thought into it, I kinda think this validated my concerns. By my understanding, the bacteria in the live sand and rock rubble pretty much metabolized everything without allowing the main rock to establish a colony. All that time and effort and all it did was lower the nutrient level in an already low level situation. Just a real quick question, what optics did you go with on the light?40 degree optics. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Protip: let the water get super dirty when cycling dry rock with seed rock. Plenty of food = plenty of bacterial propagation. Just leave the lights off and do a 100% water change when it's done. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Well ray didn't know, so that's worth somethin Link to comment
jdl Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Thanks, Nips. People don't realize how hard it is to hold in a dump of that magnitude for an extended period of time. Knowing now, that you fully understand, and appreciate what I did. Well, that just made it all worth while. how many courics is this beast? Link to comment
RayWhisperer Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 HD, I'm not a moron. I haven't done a water change yet. The problem is the rock has nothing on it. It was in a tank without light or fish for about a year. Then taken out and sat dry for another 8 moths to a year. I refuse to pee in my tank, or put fish or food in to jumpstart the cycle. It's currently cycling, but like I said. It's a weak cycle. It's also progressing extremely slowly. Aerobic bacteria I'm guessing will repopulate rather soon. This isn't an issue. I'm worried about deeper in the rock. The anaerobic bacteria. As currently there is nothing in there to consume Nitrates. Sure, I'll have a fuge. I'm still worried about spikes and stability issues without that natural Nitrate removal. That bacterial population, I'm guessing, will take 6 + months to establish itself. jdl, WTF is a couric? Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 jdl, WTF is a couric? It's a South Park reference... kids these days, amiright?! Link to comment
jdl Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 a "couric" is a unit of measure for fecal bombs used in south park. also the name of a washed up news reporter. Link to comment
Cheapreef27 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Am I the only one confused be the peeing in the tank thing? Link to comment
RayWhisperer Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Am I the only one confused be the peeing in the tank thing? It's a method some moronic noobs claimed to have used to start a cycle. Their supeior stupid reasoning was urine has high amounts of ammonia. They fail to understand it also contains plenty of other waste products. Most of which are not found ina saltwater environment. Stick around a while. It occasionally makes a re-apperance on the boards, gaining brief popularity(at least in postings.) That is until they are berated mercilessly into submission. a "couric" is a unit of measure for fecal bombs used in south park. also the name of a washed up news reporter.I see. I'll have to look that one up on youtube, or sumthin. Link to comment
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