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Harlequin Filefish (orange spotted filefish)


Acropora12

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So, I'm taking on a difficult but rewarding project. Breeding harlequin filefish or the orange spotted filefish. I first want to know if I can keep 2 females and 1 male in a 36 gallon bow front? What will be the best way to get them to eat prepared foods? I was told smearing a high protein fish paste on a skeleton of acropora will get them to start. How can you distinguish males from females? Where can I buy healthy ones since my lfs don't get them in?

 

hopw to get this project underway in about march. Want to do my research first!

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they are much easier to breed and feed if you leave them in the ocean....i breed them all the time

 

You really wont be able to keep it long if it doesnt have live acropora to feed on. In a tank that small, there is no way to grow and house enough swiming space & acropora/sps for breeding. Fish usually wont spawn if they dont have enough room, proper diet, and light cycles. They really only should be in large reef tanks... I know some one who has one in his 600 gallon reef to keep his acros in check, that fish is fa and happy :)

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Give seahorsedream a pm. She has had a lot of experience with them. I don't think she tried to breed them. Her main problem was getting them off live coral and eating prepared food. I believe she has a thread if you want to search for it. Good Luck they are beautiful fish!

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FishEyeAquaculture

I will be tagging along on this! Kudos to you for attempting this! I listened to Matt Pederson give a lecture on his efforts to breed these fish at MACNA. From my understanding, liveaquaria.com only offers them for sale when they are eating frozen mysis. So be sure to check out divers den ofter, they have pairs available. Here is a thead that will interest you:

http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtop...=191&t=1922

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I had an interesting thing happen with mine a few weeks ago.

 

DSC03279.jpg

 

same lighting, same tank, same fish

DSC03314.jpg

 

thanks for the kudos, I was also looking at fish through blue zoo aquatics they have some good stock.

 

I've seen DD offer a trio before (2f 1m) so its definitely possible. Also, with DD at least you know they've been fed and you can see a pic of what you are actually getting.

 

thanks for the kudos, I was also looking at fish through blue zoo aquatics they have some good stock.

 

I've seen DD offer a trio before (2f 1m) so its definitely possible. Also, with DD at least you know they've been fed and you can see a pic of what you are actually getting.

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For those who don't know me, I'm "Mr. seahorsedreams". I can tell you that it's much easier to wean single OSFF than it is to wean multiples. We currently have a M-F pair, but aren't attempting to breed them.

 

It's best to try and pick specimens that aren't TOO emaciated so you have a bit more time before they starve.

 

During the weaning process, we began with a M-F pair, lost the male, weaned the female, then added another male. We started out with browned-out SPS, and made these available while coral skeletons were smeared with different gel-based foods. Weaning these fish is very labor intensive, as the fish pretty much need food constantly, so water quality suffers (these fish will go off their feed in bad water, BTW). We've also found that the fish don't like an audience at first, so Renee (seahorsedreams) literally hid under a blanket and peaked out to see if any progress was being made, and each "nip" was a small victory.

 

After the fish began eating, it was a matter of trying many foods, such as BS+, mysis, tiny pellets, roe (Nutramar ova is a good one), cyclopeeze, etc.

 

Definitely don't keep more than one male for any reason, as they will fight, and you'll lose one or both.

 

Sexing: Males have white spots and an orange stripe in their anal fin area.

 

Male:

 

orangespotcheckingitout700.jpg

 

Female:

 

osff700.jpg

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+1 talk to Seahorsedreams. Also try to talk to Matt Pederson. He's bred them.

 

Raising my hand.

 

Yes but I'm not sure if he frequents it anymore.

 

His name is "mwp".

 

Email is always the best bet as I can't watch all websites all the time. I do use a google search agent to keep my ear to the ground, which is how I found this discussion ;)

 

It's good that you're researching this project now and giving yourself ample time to prep before you get started (5 months if you're going to start in March...I applaud the patience). Still, not knowing your experience level or availability to care of the fish at all (and somewhat responding for more than just you), let me throw the following caveats out there to think about.

 

#1. What else have you bred? What is your breeding experience level? I'm not saying you couldn't use what I reported in CORAL and at MACNA this year and have success with them as your very first project, but wow...a lofty goal if it's your first. It'd be like trying to run a marathon yet you've never jogged around the block. Breeding fish at the hobbyist level is a bit of an artform...since you don't always have the luxury of a full on lab and breeding being your full time job, it's a lot of instinct, and that only comes from experience. I fear that anyone who sets out for their first breeding project being something up towards the stratosphere of what we can currently do is really asking for undue hardship. In other words, build up your breeding experiences with something that is more forgiving and easier to have success with (again, assuming you haven't bred anything to date). Banggais are really irrelevant if your ultimate goal would be Harlequin Filefish. In thinking about this, maybe some of the Elacatinus gobies would be your best entry in. Tiny bit harder than clownfish, but you won't have to wait nearly as long to get a spawning pair (you can find mated WC pairs of Neon Gobies online from a couple different Florida collectors). Or pick up a handful of the Greenbanded Gobies, Elacatinus multifaciatus. They're a bit sexually dimorphic (males have a slightly extended dorsal ray) and if found young, they're hermaphrodites (so you could pair like clownfish). They were actually the first marine fish I reared, and most folks told me they were "terribly hard". Well, not hard, but they just have exacting requirements. Took me 5 tries. I think they'd teach you things applicable to trying the Harlequin Files. And you could get them spawning possibly as soon as Christmas.

 

#2. Most everyone I know who's had long term success, and more specifically everyone who had long term (>2 years in captivity) was someone with 10+ years of aquarium experience. Obviously with the information I amassed, I and others found some ways to unlock the species, but I still strongly believe it's an expert-only species. If you can purchase a pair that's already trained onto frozen foods, that certainly lowers the barrier for you...the hardest part is already done. But that doesn't mean they're just "cake" fish. They are still sensitive to mistakes and will punish you harshly. If you don't have the experience to notice your mistakes and make corrections, well..that's why I still think they are not for beginners or even people with a couple years of experience.

 

#3. Tying into that, if you can't find time to give these fish routine feedings several times per day, I'd say pass now. I have the luxury of working from home...I can drop food in whenever I feel like it, and I often do.

 

#4. Specifically to the question of a trio - yes, I think on many levels trios make good sense. I.e., it serves to diffuse any aggression from the male onto 2 females instead of one. In nature, these fish are normally monogamous pair bonding fish, BUT when there are extra females around, males have been observed to mate with 2 females instead of one. Lastly, I too kept a trio in a small tank and it worked fine, although I never observed any spawning behavior with that group. Doesn't mean they were or were not, just means I never saw it if they were.

 

#5. Your specific comment about training them vastly over-simplifies what I recommend and what you'll experience if you find yourself training this species. While I cannot outline it all here, I want to stress that isolated quarantine is a must in my opinion. That means one fish per quarantine tank. That means either 3 quarantine tanks, or purchasing fish one at a time (in which case, I'd go Female, Female, Male most likely). Training also requires having a steady supply of live coral available to stimulate feeding as well as provide sustenance if training isn't going well. Since writing for CORAL, I'd also suggest that training means have a huge diversity of foods to offer. I.e. it might be that Nutramar Ova, or Live Blackworms, are the first food that "does it". I'm training a pair of Larvatus Butterflies right now (keep the faith...even I think this is a crazy, insane, stupid idea). So far, they've avoided touching any of their natural coral prey, but grated squid seems to be getting a fair amount of interest. But I've thrown 10 other things at them as well (and have done a lot of water changes to deal with extra waste). If you only have one tool in your box, it may not be the right tool.

 

Regarding sources, both Blue Zoo and the Diver's Den are places I've gotten filefish from. Fish from Blue Zoo are less expensive, but they aren't trained. So that's your trade off. Up to you which way you want to go. I think I've picked up 6 or 7 from Blue Zoo at this point and I lost one which was a shipping mistake. I have one in training right now and she's doing great. My female from the Diver's Den (picked it up directly at an open house) was eating within 24 hours. Both are good places online, and frankly, very few other places are even willing to touch this species, so it's not like you have many choices.

 

Obviously I could go on for hours about the species and write another 4000 word article and give 2 more lectures, but I've probably dumped more than enough here for now. Keep up on the research, make plans, and take ownership of the project. Remember, I entered this species with the commitment that if I had to feed them live SPS for the rest of their lives, I would fork over the cash to make that happen. When I give a 70% success rate for training, I'm still counting 3 fish losses that no one would blame me for (2 fish that were basically dead by the time I got to them, and one that jumped). Don't make excuses for failures and mistakes, but take responsibility for them.

 

The one thing no one ever wanted to come out of my article was a "gold rush" on this species. Thankfully that hasn't happened, which means we got the message out properly. Still, I kinda got thrust the "Harlequin Filefish Police" badge without asking for it...nevertheless, I only want success for anyone who tries them, and ownership of both successes and failures. And that all comes back to why I don't recommend this species for anyone with only a few years of experience under their belts...it's a lot harder to know what's actually going on when you simply just don't have the experience. Not a dig on anyone, just a plain fact.

 

If you have ANY questions, don't PM, because this website doesn't email me about them. Use my actual email! Good luck, and please do keep in touch with the progress of your project! I'll subscribe to this thread so hopefully I stay somewhat in the loop.

 

Matt

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damn if only they could be raised to not feed off sps.

 

In theory, they CAN. I'm working on that to date, but I lost the male out of my spawning pair in the move last year (along with a few other filesfish of two species). Getting them settled in and spawning is NOT easy....my most promising prospects is a young pair that I got going, but who knows how old they have to be before they start spawning?! As my fishroom grows, my ability to house more pairs of this species grows too. Rearing 3 to the juvenile stage was NOT ENOUGH, but in theory, I think they can live, as CB fish, on prepared foods. It may take 5-10 years to see whether this holds true or not...so far, I know of no one who's replicated my breeding successes. As I said at MACNA this year - it's currently "pretty lonely" being the only guy who's done it.

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Is there any specific reason nobody has been able to copy your work Matt? Besides the obvious challenge of breeding them.

 

I really think it's the two obvious challenges + one other thing.

 

#1. Still really tough to keep alive

#2. Compounded by not being exactly easy to get to breed (but I know at least Andy Berry had spawning)

#3. You actually have to try to rear them. I don't think Andy ever tried to rear them...not sure though.

 

As I reported at MACNA, after the CORAL article, I had some very promising runs, one of which I had 50+ babies alive at 5 weeks (which is generally the point at which I'd have ONE single survivor going all the way). Of course, failing rotifers and being on the road giving talks botched things up, and then we moved and I lost half of the spawning pair. So even I am having difficulty recreating my own success. I haven't had an actively spawning pair now for about a year, but I'm hopeful that this newer young pair will get their acts together.

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Google has totally failed me. Whats a cb fish.

 

If they where tank breed for a couple generations, would you expect them to become reef safe. or would they still be limited to fish only.

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Google has totally failed me. Whats a cb fish.

 

If they where tank breed for a couple generations, would you expect them to become reef safe. or would they still be limited to fish only.

 

CB = Captive Bred

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