LED Aesthetics: What do you really think of your color?

[marc111]

Like a lot of people I have been following this thread with great interest. In the past I have used 10K MH over the tank. I am creating a 3 bank light for my 240 gal (72in x 24in x 32 in tall). Each bank will be 49 LED's with a mixture of either 40 or 60 deg optics on the RB and Whites and no optics on the rest. The light bank will be 10 in above the water level. I thought I had things set with a mix of Neutral White,Blue, Violet and Royal Blue up until I saw some of the recent commentary on the Reds and Turquoise. Especially Dave's research) The LED rows are about 1.375 in apart and the LED's in the row are about 2.5 in apart.

 

Here is a set of layouts I am considering. In each layout the Blue could be either Blue or Turquoise.

 

I would appreciate some feedback on the basic layout pattern as well as the mix. What people might think will be optimum.

 

Thanks,

Mark

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

Like a lot of people I have been following this thread with great interest. In the past I have used 10K MH over the tank. I am creating a 3 bank light for my 240 gal (72in x 24in x 32 in tall). Each bank will be 49 LED's with a mixture of either 40 or 60 deg optics on the RB and Whites and no optics on the rest. The light bank will be 10 in above the water level. I thought I had things set with a mix of Neutral White,Blue, Violet and Royal Blue up until I saw some of the recent commentary on the Reds and Turquoise. Especially Dave's research) The LED rows are about 1.375 in apart and the LED's in the row are about 2.5 in apart.

 

Here is a set of layouts I am considering. In each layout the Blue could be either Blue or Turquoise.

 

I would appreciate some feedback on the basic layout pattern as well as the mix. What people might think will be optimum.

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

18RB 9NW 9V 6T 6DR

[GTi]

I have a BioCube with 16 royal blue, 2 blue and 8 neutral white Crees. I have to play around with the colour ratio between the blues and whites a bit more and I am generally happy with the overall result. However, I have noticed that my coralline looks very muted compared to the stock BioCube lighting with an additional blue stunner strip. Any ideas what other colour LEDs I could try adding to bring out the rest of the colour spectrum?

 

When I ordered the kit a while back it seemed the concensus was 8 rb: 4 nw : 1b was a good mix - now there are a lot of other colours being mentioned as well and I am a bit confused! Also, is colour blending likely to be an issue as I have evenly spaced LEDs (not clusters) and adding a couple of reds or whatever may not play well with the others.

 

Thanks!

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

I have a BioCube with 16 royal blue, 2 blue and 8 neutral white Crees. I have to play around with the colour ratio between the blues and whites a bit more and I am generally happy with the overall result. However, I have noticed that my coralline looks very muted compared to the stock BioCube lighting with an additional blue stunner strip. Any ideas what other colour LEDs I could try adding to bring out the rest of the colour spectrum?

 

When I ordered the kit a while back it seemed the concensus was 8 rb: 4 nw : 1b was a good mix - now there are a lot of other colours being mentioned as well and I am a bit confused! Also, is colour blending likely to be an issue as I have evenly spaced LEDs (not clusters) and adding a couple of reds or whatever may not play well with the others.

 

Thanks!

 

 

There is a reason its a kit, its designed to be cheap and get you started and provide just enough light for your tank.

 

If you want to get more advanced, you need to ask what colors you want to bring out. Do you want to make light greens really GO WOW? Then 420nm LEDs. Same goes for if you want to give more of an acitinc look to the tank at night, then 420nm LEDs.

 

If you want to give a fuller spectrum, most people are going to tell you to put some 660nm in to bring the reds/purples out. Downside of this is its going to darken the tank a bit and the reds will overpower the rest of the lights if you use too much. To compensate I recommending to people the Turquoise 495nm. The Turquoise bring out yellows, dark greens and oranges and combined with the royal blues and deep reds they produce a white light so your tank doesn't get dark.

[GTi]

There is a reason its a kit, its designed to be cheap and get you started and provide just enough light for your tank.

 

If you want to get more advanced, you need to ask what colors you want to bring out. Do you want to make light greens really GO WOW? Then 420nm LEDs. Same goes for if you want to give more of an acitinc look to the tank at night, then 420nm LEDs.

 

If you want to give a fuller spectrum, most people are going to tell you to put some 660nm in to bring the reds/purples out. Downside of this is its going to darken the tank a bit and the reds will overpower the rest of the lights if you use too much. To compensate I recommending to people the Turquoise 495nm. The Turquoise bring out yellows, dark greens and oranges and combined with the royal blues and deep reds they produce a white light so your tank doesn't get dark.

Thanks for the info. I also took a look at your site. I noticed some of the LEDs have 60 degree optics and one has a max current of 700 mA. Would you recommend the exotic colours on a separate driver than the RB and NW? Would 2 clusters with a red, violet and turquoise in each work or should I look at a different layout?

I didn't like the configuration of the kits I saw so I pieced this together myself and whilst I am not unhappy with it the way it is I am not ecstatic either!

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

Thanks for the info. I also took a look at your site. I noticed some of the LEDs have 60 degree optics and one has a max current of 700 mA. Would you recommend the exotic colours on a separate driver than the RB and NW? Would 2 clusters with a red, violet and turquoise in each work or should I look at a different layout?

I didn't like the configuration of the kits I saw so I pieced this together myself and whilst I am not unhappy with it the way it is I am not ecstatic either!

 

Our Exotic lineup has max current of 700mA and we carry matched drivers.

I would say keep the Exotics on a different driver so you can "dial" in the color/effect you want. The cluster you are suggesting would work, there are a bunch of options and thats one of them.

 

Ive had people put a touch of 660nm + Turquoise on their tank and alot of True Violets. Ive had people match the number of True Violets and Turquoise/660nm.

 

If you seen a tank with the Coralife Compact Fluorescent 420nm, that is what the 420nm basically provide, super actinic.

[marc111]

18RB 9NW 9V 6T 6DR

 

Thanks Milad. An interesting suggestion.

 

Looking at the Deep Red and Turquoise LEDs on the group buy site I notice they come with 60 deg optics. I would have thought for best mixing that one would want these without the optics. Osram has their deep red available that way. Will the Turquoise be available that way ?

 

Thanks,

Mark

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

Thanks Milad. An interesting suggestion.

 

Looking at the Deep Red and Turquoise LEDs on the group buy site I notice they come with 60 deg optics. I would have thought for best mixing that one would want these without the optics. Osram has their deep red available that way. Will the Turquoise be available that way ?

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

Every LED has optics, just depends what the degree is. 60 is a good fit for most tanks when the LEDs are about 6-10in from the water surface depending on the tank. We may be bringing in 90s for the shallow tanks.

[Dudeguy]

Does anyone have the datasheet for the bridgelux that aquastyleonline.com sells? I have looked at a couple on the Bridgelux website, but I don't know exactly which part they are selling.

 

My guess is that their Neutral whites are going to be greener than the Crees, with a smaller blue spike.

 

I emailed them, and will post a spectral graph if no one has one.

[jfarabaugh]

Every LED has optics, just depends what the degree is. 60 is a good fit for most tanks when the LEDs are about 6-10in from the water surface depending on the tank. We may be bringing in 90s for the shallow tanks.

 

Milad,

 

I dont know about anyone else but I would rather have LEDs with wider optics for all colors so that way I dont have to use so many in order to blend well. This is really critical in hood retros like in my BC29 where my LEDs are only 2" off the water. IMO if i need 60 degrees I rather buy the optics after the fact....plus it is more money for folks like you

 

I bought some 495s and 660s off you very recently for a test setup but when I redo my BC29 I hope you can get some leds with wider optics.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

Milad,

 

I dont know about anyone else but I would rather have LEDs with wider optics for all colors so that way I dont have to use so many in order to blend well. This is really critical in hood retros like in my BC29 where my LEDs are only 2" off the water. IMO if i need 60 degrees I rather buy the optics after the fact....plus it is more money for folks like you

 

We were actually doing exactly opposite, trying to save you money rather than make more money. I personally hate optics but they are the crucial part of an LED so having them built in and saving people money seemed like the best way to go.

 

On a side note, im still going to save you money. We are getting in some with 120 degree optics so you will be able to choose either 60 degree or 120 degree.

 

I bought some 495s and 660s off you very recently for a test setup but when I redo my BC29 I hope you can get some leds with wider optics.

 

What did you think of the combo?

[jfarabaugh]

We were actually doing exactly opposite, trying to save you money rather than make more money. I personally hate optics but they are the crucial part of an LED so having them built in and saving people money seemed like the best way to go.

 

On a side note, im still going to save you money. We are getting in some with 120 degree optics so you will be able to choose either 60 degree or 120 degree.

 

 

 

What did you think of the combo?

 

Please let me know when you get the 120 degrees in.

 

I was playing with the 495s last night after the lights went out on my tank and I really like what I saw. I already have some 660s on my main tank....But I am excited to get my new test fixture together and see what everything looks like together...Hopfully I get some time this weekend to work it.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

Please let me know when you get the 120 degrees in.

 

I was playing with the 495s last night after the lights went out on my tank and I really like what I saw. I already have some 660s on my main tank....But I am excited to get my new test fixture together and see what everything looks like together...Hopfully I get some time this weekend to work it.

 

Keep us updated!

[blasterman]

I might also be interested in those 120s.

 

I've tried several brands of 80 and 90 degree lenses and all are quite narrower than their specs and closer to 60 degrees. Or, actual 90 degree lenses are simply frosted and eat too much light.

 

For those of us running low lights we don't have much choice but to run bare.

[Mojorizn]

Well, this has been a diversion from The Ultimate LED Guide @ 151 pages.

I have absorbed quite a bit of info, changed my approach numerous times and successfully fried my brain.

 

I wanna say THANKS for all the great ideas and info.

 

My " Wadda think of this layout" can be found here should anyone wish to add their input.

 

Gratitude

[jfarabaugh]

I have been involved in this thread and others like it from their beginnings and lately I have been thinking a lot about my color choices for LEDs once again. I have been running my complex setup for over a year and at this point I am still not crazy with the colors. I will just say it....I am NOT HAPPY with all the time and money that I spent thus far.

 

After looking all over the net and looking at numerous setups in person I have yet to see any LED setup that can compete or even come close with the colors obtained via a T5 setup. Perfect example can be found here. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...6405&page=5

 

I have been looking at what bulb combinations these tanks run compared to what 99% of the LED setups are missing and the same thing keeps on coming up... 420nm. Now I have some old and very week 420s in my current setup (just not enough to really show) but I recently got some new 420s this week and I hit my tank with them last night after the lights went out…. There is no comparison to the RB as far as color pop…420s are insane. Most of the T5 setups I looked at seem to have 420 as the second strongest spike next to the 450ish range spike if not higher in some setups.

 

Most of the tanks also run some Fiji purple bulbs which have a high spike in the 450ish range (already covered by most of our setups) and a spike in the 650-660ish range which is now covered by the deep red LEDs.

 

Most T5 bulbs also seem to have a spike around 550 and I may explore that later or just consider it covered via my white LEDs.

 

In my upcoming test setup I will have 420s as my second highest number of LEDs after RBs. I will also be adding more 660s (already have 1 in my current setup) and will be trying some 495s as I was very impressed when testing these as they brought out very strong orange and red colors in my corals just to see what results I get.

 

We have enough access to various different color LEDs to match just about any T5 bulb now yet folks still seem narrowly focused on a few colors….The thing that makes me shake my head the most is when I still see lots of straight Blue and White LED setups when all the swirl of new color techniques are going on.

 

A lot of folks that switched from T5s to LEDs went to a RB/W LED setup and most likely you were not running straight 455ish blue T5s and straight 4500-6500k T5s so why are you limiting yourself color spectrum wise now?

 

I also still seeing a lot of negativity against experimenting with different LEDs on the forums……let folks try them out….you don’t know everything…and they may find the magic combination.

 

Keep on experimenting and sharing your ideas people. We will get there.

 

My .02

[GTi]

I have been involved in this thread and others like it from their beginnings and lately I have been thinking a lot about my color choices for LEDs once again. I have been running my complex setup for over a year and at this point I am still not crazy with the colors. I will just say it....I am NOT HAPPY with all the time and money that I spent thus far.

 

After looking all over the net and looking at numerous setups in person I have yet to see any LED setup that can compete or even come close with the colors obtained via a T5 setup. Perfect example can be found here. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...6405&page=5

 

I have been looking at what bulb combinations these tanks run compared to what 99% of the LED setups are missing and the same thing keeps on coming up... 420nm. Now I have some old and very week 420s in my current setup (just not enough to really show) but I recently got some new 420s this week and I hit my tank with them last night after the lights went out…. There is no comparison to the RB as far as color pop…420s are insane. Most of the T5 setups I looked at seem to have 420 as the second strongest spike next to the 450ish range spike if not higher in some setups.

 

Most of the tanks also run some Fiji purple bulbs which have a high spike in the 450ish range (already covered by most of our setups) and a spike in the 650-660ish range which is now covered by the deep red LEDs.

 

Most T5 bulbs also seem to have a spike around 550 and I may explore that later or just consider it covered via my white LEDs.

 

In my upcoming test setup I will have 420s as my second highest number of LEDs after RBs. I will also be adding more 660s (already have 1 in my current setup) and will be trying some 495s as I was very impressed when testing these as they brought out very strong orange and red colors in my corals just to see what results I get.

 

We have enough access to various different color LEDs to match just about any T5 bulb now yet folks still seem narrowly focused on a few colors….The thing that makes me shake my head the most is when I still see lots of straight Blue and White LED setups when all the swirl of new color techniques are going on.

 

A lot of folks that switched from T5s to LEDs went to a RB/W LED setup and most likely you were not running straight 455ish blue T5s and straight 4500-6500k T5s so why are you limiting yourself color spectrum wise now?

 

I also still seeing a lot of negativity against experimenting with different LEDs on the forums……let folks try them out….you don’t know everything…and they may find the magic combination.

 

Keep on experimenting and sharing your ideas people. We will get there.

 

My .02

 

Lots of interesting info. What you are saying makes a lot of sense. I have a 2RB:1NW and a couple of blue. 26 total. I am adding 4 uv next (just arrived).

 

Don't be too hard on people for not being super adventurous - it wasn't that long ago that this thread was advising 2rb:1nw. With mine it looked quite good but was definitely missing certain colours. Within reason I am going to try to address that but as the availability of LEDs improves, there are more and more options to consider. We are in a lucky position but it requires continuous learning. I am unsure about the use of red,for example, doesn't it promote the growth of algae?

 

Do you have a recommended proportion of which LEDs to use?

[jfarabaugh]

Lots of interesting info. What you are saying makes a lot of sense. I have a 2RB:1NW and a couple of blue. 26 total. I am adding 4 uv next (just arrived).

 

Don't be too hard on people for not being super adventurous - it wasn't that long ago that this thread was advising 2rb:1nw. With mine it looked quite good but was definitely missing certain colours. Within reason I am going to try to address that but as the availability of LEDs improves, there are more and more options to consider. We are in a lucky position but it requires continuous learning. I am unsure about the use of red,for example, doesn't it promote the growth of algae?

 

Do you have a recommended proportion of which LEDs to use?

 

Wasnt intended to be an hard...just get people thinking again.

 

Try hitting your tank with just the UV (I take it you mean violet 420?) you will be amazed.

[GTi]

Wasnt intended to be an hard...just get people thinking again.

 

Try hitting your tank with just the UV (I take it you mean violet 420?) you will be amazed.

Ok - sorry about that! Glad you didn't get upset!

 

I have 3 drivers (2 for rb and 1 for nw). I'm wiring the Violet UVs (390-420 nm) in with the blues for now. Max drive current is 700 mA. If I add more colours I will probably get another driver and put all the 'exotics' on their own string.

[Trick]

we need better true violet led's.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

Ok - sorry about that! Glad you didn't get upset!

 

I have 3 drivers (2 for rb and 1 for nw). I'm wiring the Violet UBS (390-420 nm) in with the blues for now. Max drive current is 700 mA. If I add more colours I will probably get another driver and put all the 'exotics' on their own string.

 

I believe jfarabaugh is using the 420nm True Violets that have been around for awhile now.

I havent seen much on under 420nm.

 

 

we need better true violet led's.

 

What do you mean? Higher output? Higher wattage? Better efficiency?

[Trick]

What do you mean? Higher output? Higher wattage? Better efficiency?

 

All of those things.

 

Or if you could get the current TV's in a 3-up pattern i think that would help a bit.

[Trick]

we could do a group buy on some larger multi-chip TV's. like these: http://www.ec21.com/product-details/10W-42...V--5205491.html

 

http://www.ec21.com/product-details/20W-42...V--5211945.html

 

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/35487...holesalers.html

[Trick]

i just sent an inquiry for the 10w 420nm LED's on how much they cost for the minimum 50PCS order.

Pm me if your interested in possibly joining in on a group buy and i might start one up.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

we could do a group buy on some larger multi-chip TV's. like these: http://www.ec21.com/product-details/10W-42...V--5205491.html

 

http://www.ec21.com/product-details/20W-42...V--5211945.html

 

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/35487...holesalers.html

 

 

3w gets hot and is ok to cool

10w is a bit harder to cool but you dont get to spread them out evenly across a tank.

A 50w would be insane to try to cool. you would need a copper CPU heatsink with a large fan on it (i know thats right up your ally trick).