How does my sump design look? NOW WITH WATER!

[WI Reefer]

MAN UR GOIN to have micro bubbles!!!

 

I hate the return pump design in the middle and where u have 3 baffles as a bubble trap u only need 2 as it will give u more room and help cut back on micro bubbles!

 

I used the 1/8th glass in all my sumps the stuff u get for picture frames at lowes it works great and is cheap and easy to obtain.

[bitts]

 

there are improvements to be made but this may give you ideas.

 

I would replace the first 90 with a tee. then move the siphon brake to the uppermost point to help pevent bubbles forming from time to time.

[bitts]

 

 

 

 

 

 

as long as the return chambers walls are high than the desired water line the only back flow that you should have to factor in will be the volume of the plumbing & water above the primary drain. as to anti siphon towers there great as long as the flow is sufficient so that when power is cut the siphon brakes. it important to have both the entire bend of the anti siphon tower & the end (tube) of the siphon brake above the water line. for the siphon brake would do ro tubing & fittings ( john guest but the guy at the box store will just look at you funny) running from the tower to the back up drain.

 

 

 

 

 

if the tubu for the siphon brake ends up below the water line it wont brake the siphon.

 

 

also leave as much extra space in the return chamber as you can just in case (but you already know this so I'll shut up).

 

 

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_jXcKvFXhXng/S9W7-l1O...20daemonfly.jpg

 

sort of like this then just run the line to the back up drain.

[ajmckay]

Okay, thanks for the info... I agree that the anti-siphon tower needs to be taller.. See the revised illustration below. Does that look better? Physically, I think it should work and keep back-flow to a minimum.

 

Instead of cluttering up the return with 90 degree elbows, I'm thinking to use a 180 degree bend of some sort.... Maybe something like this

http://www.flickr.com/photos/83759396@N00/3246558799

Unless I can find a U-pipe or a p-trap that's 1/2" in diameter I could use that as well. I'm thinking that would work better than a bunch of 90's.

 

Tonight I cut up some glass though... So I'll probably end up with a water level of 10.5 to 11". That would leave an inch or so (~ 2.5-3.5 gallons) of water to drain back from the display. I think that should be plenty to account for whatever back-flows into the sump if I'm just accounting for the plumbing and whatever is above the overflow.

 

Oh, and WI Reefer, the design has completely changed (see the first page of the thread). This is the new design that I made in sketch-up based on Bitt's model (the first 2 models are his, the third is the one I sucked at making):

 

So the water will enter the skimmer chamber, then goto the fuge, then the return area. And thanks for the confirmation on 1/8" glass.

[bitts]

the new one looks good. the 90 were just because it made it easier to plumb the ro fittings into the return lines.

 

as to glass.

1) if there is equal levels of water on both sides, generally, it wont matter what size glass is used.

 

2) if there is a large difference than the glass should be considered as an exterior tank wall. with baffles to reinforce against bowing.

[bitts]

I have had the tank maintain siphon both times while i was fiddling with it.

once when i had the end of the siphon brake to low, the other was when the pump was throttled back so far that the pump was pushing at most 50 gph.

 

but i would expect these modifications to help avoid those issues.

[kgoldy]

I'm following closely... just bought a 30B today, and am hoping to do something similar to your setup. GL, and please keep step by step stuff simple if you can! Haha, thanks for being my guinea pig!

 

One question- The pipe in your last chamber... Could you explain what's going on there? I'm missing something there, because I have no idea what it is...

[bitts]

the water from the fuge flows up through it in to the return chamber. the heieght of the tube sets the water line for the previous chambers.

 

heres an old schetch of the towers.

 

 

 

the other down side to these is the torque that the may place on the bulkhead & glass.

[ajmckay]

bitts... your sketch up skills impress yet again. That worries me a little that you've maintained siphon twice... However as you mentioned I feel this should go well as long as I place the siphon break high enough and have enough flow. The design I'm envisioning in my head looks just like your sketch up model, except I might even have the siphon break higher.

 

I am also planning on making a holding system on the back of the stand to hold the pipes and keep them from moving while supporting their weight, thus reducing strain placed on the back of the tank.

 

 

Kgoldy, as bitts said, the pipe going into the last chamber is just another way to maintain a certain water level in the display fuge area as water pressure will cause it to flow into the last chamber as the display area fills and the return area empties.

[bitts]

both times would count as pilot error though so. i wouldn't hold them against the towers.

espicaly since one of them had the tube in water preventing the siphon to brake

 

thought you might get a kick out of this so even though its only kinda related. here it is.

 

[nano-reefer1]

 

wow you guys made this very coplicated lol

 

mine is simle easy and eficient

[ajmckay]

Bitts: Did someone actually test that? Geez!

 

n-r1, I'm all for simple and easy... but that doesn't help much if it doesn't meet the requirements I've set for the tank's long-term goals... On the other hand we're spending the time and effort now to design it right so that the daily operation is easy and simple.

 

Your sump does look pretty functional though.

[bitts]

that over flow was for a couple threads talking about pvc overflows

 

its actually based on a high end glass one from japan.

 

thought that the return & siphon brake in it may be use full. from a theory based perspective, its all the same.

[zemuss]

Nano-reefer what is the purpose of splitting the baffle on the left? Does the water flow over the top and also pass through the middle?

 

ajmckay - to answer your question I think it will work. I am also here for a design idea of my own. WHat glass are you using to build this? Would that be cheaper than purchasing acrylic?

 

"Z"

[bitts]

The split baffle is for impoving water flow across a dsb.

[kgoldy]

Kgoldy, as bitts said, the pipe going into the last chamber is just another way to maintain a certain water level in the display fuge area as water pressure will cause it to flow into the last chamber as the display area fills and the return area empties.

 

 

Oh, that makes sense. So if you set the top of this pipe at 10.5 inches from the bottom, that will be the height of your display, skimmer chamber, etc... I'm pretty sure that's the level you mentioned earlier.

 

I was wondering why you made that last chamber so large- now I think I understand... This way, any evaporation from the entire system will only affect the level of this chamber... correct? At first I was curous why you would limit the size of your fuge/display so much...

 

Do you recommend making this pipe adjustable/easy to remove in case you want to change water level say 1/4 inch or something? Not sure why you might want to do that, but flexability is always nice. Haha.

 

Are you drilling the hole for this pipe in the glass yourself? I've never cut anything but straight lines in glass, and it's been a while, so I'm not sure how I'd do this if I wasn't using plexi or something...

[ajmckay]

More confusing to me than the split baffle (usually to increase and vary the volume of water moving across barriers) are the 2 baffles just before the farthest baffle on the right. It looks like they're at different levels, but neither seem to be touching the bottom.... ?

 

 

As for my glass, I was going to try to use 1/8" window glass for as much as I can (save space!) because the water level will be pretty equal in each chamber. But actually I have a 40b that I'll probably take apart to obtain the glass for free. So I'll be using 1/4" glass for the majority of it. I will still probably use 1/8" glass for the baffles though on the left side of the sump to save space.

 

Kgoldy, you got it man The pipe will probably thread into a 90 degree elbow, so there will be some adjustability built-in. I could also just take it off and hack an inch off the pipe (I'll probably do that at least once in my experiments trying to go as close to the edge as possible).

 

I'll drill the hole myself using a diamond hole saw. You can buy them online pretty cheap (www.glass-holes.com is one place) or do like I do and borrow one from someone local to you since people usually buy them and only use them a few times.

[kgoldy]

If you wouldn't mind posting the size of each piece of glass, that'd be really helpful for my copy-cat attempt. Haha.

 

I'm only half joking, because I really need to figure out what skimmer I'm going to get before I commit to cutting glass. 75 gallon RR + same sump as you... suggestions?

[nano-reefer1]

thanks bitts lol and mine is designed in a very confined space 10g tank lol would do it a little differant if i had more room

[ajmckay]

Hey tonight I started siliconing!!! I just put on a new back panel (the 30b I'm using as my sump I got from evil when he busted out the back panel while drilling it). Tomorrow I'll silicone in the dividers.

 

So far here's the dimensions of the pieces I'll be using (L x H):

1) 1/4" glass 27.5x11.5" - This is the large piece which mostly divides the equipment chambers from the display area. This is also the panel which needs to be drilled for the bulkhead.

2) 1/4" glass 7.25x11.5" - This is the panel dividing the skimmer and return sections.

3) 1/4" glass 1.5x11.5" - This is the little piece of glass that will hold in the baffles.

4) 1/8" glass 3 pieces each 8x10" - These are the baffles. They'll be spaced a little less than 3/4" apart.

 

So tomorrow I'll post pictures of the pieces and the sump-making process.

 

As for a skimmer, I'm using a Bubble Magus NAC6. Good price at www.nuocean.com. The footprint is about 10.5L x 7W x 20H. One thing I like about it is that the pump is inside the bubble chamber, which in my mind makes it much easier to install/remove. My skimmer chamber will just barely be wide enough to accomodate it. Of course before I silicone everything in I'll tape or hot-glue it together and do some more test fitting. I will take the thing apart and re-do it if I have to, but I really don't want to!

[kgoldy]

Good stuff, man. Can't wait to see how it goes. I'll have to figure out if the Magnus is a good fit in my cabinet...

[zemuss]

I want to see a finished product and a video please. Still following and keep up the good work. I am thinking of a U design because of my space issues.

[kgoldy]

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like I'm going to be doing some major carpentry work, all because I like this sump design so much. I've gotta open the face of my cabinet while retaining the structural integrity needed to support a 75 gallon tank. I'd be a waste to get half of my 36 inches of display fuge covered by the front walls of my cabinet...

[bitts]

Increase the front to back depth. This will allow for doors to be added to the sides for the sump to be slid through/into the cabinet. While maintaining the structure of the cabinet. Let me find the model.

[zemuss]

Nice work but can you explain the design of the sump by chamber? It seems it starts out at the right front in pic 4. Then flows to chamber 2 left front and into the big refugium section chamber 3. Then back into chamber 4? Am i right?