RO/DI & Saltwater nutrients & TDS questions

[E36 328i]

Hello all,

I have been fighting Bryopsis for awhile now in my Picotope and it is a downhill battle. I've tried boosting the magnesium (using salifert to check as well) and using towels to make the tank entirely blacked out (which did kill some of the bryopsis but the majority is still in the tank). From what I've read bryopsis is capable of surviving without light at all by using its filamentary strands to siphon off any nutrients in the water. Since I do not feed the tank at all I know I'm not getting nutrients from food (nothing in it but CUC). My RO/DI water tests 0-6ppm TDS (from LFS, saving up for my own unit). So I'm thinking perhaps my problem is my salt mix. The tank's parameters on all other levels are perfect (0 nitrates, 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia, 0 phosphates, 440 calc, 8-10dkh, magnesium 1375+ when not boosted). I've also checked the water prior to putting it in the tank and it shows the same results. Another sign of bad water quality in my tank is that I'm having a lot of sponges pop up everywhere.

 

So could it be my saltwater mix? If so, how do I approach finding out if it is? I'm thinking about switching over to Oceanic or Instant Ocean for a little bit until I can pinpoint the problem. My saltwater (Red Sea Coral Pro) was testing in the 230+ TDS range. I asked my LFS guy and he showed me his saltwater (Marineland Instant Ocean + Liquid supplements for calc, magnesium, etc) is at a TDS of 1-3. He uses the same RO/DI that I purchase from him. Does saltwater TDS really mean anything? Or is it just that the difference in brands reads different TDS? I also thought about it a bit, and was thinking maybe his TDS was so much lower because his tank is stocked with many corals (maybe they're using up that TDS that my unstocked tank isn't?). Another possibility that I found out is that the bryopsis may have been already in some of the rock. When the bryopsis first appeared it was only secluded to a single rock in the tank and now it has taken over everything.

 

So any takers? I'm going to be running some Kent phosphate sponge in the meantime hoping that it might suck up some extra nutrients.

 

Thanks!

[reeforreefoutyou]

bryopsis is stronger than anything else in your tank. Left to its own devices it will just get bigger. I say keep plucking it, water changes and maybe add chaeto to a modified hob filter or straight in the tank to out-compete the bryopsis. In bigger tanks i have heard of people adding bryopsis to their fuge to outcompete the bryopsis in the display that they keep plucking. I also think sponges are good. Think about it... new growth is awesome. it shows good flow and the same kind of nutrients that soft coral use ( for the love of god don't put sps in a pico).

[vangvace]

Saltwater is supposed to have a high TDS. Are you using your own meter or the lfs?

 

Most TDS meters measures the conductivity if the ions in the water and converts that to a ppm reading.

 

Sponges iirc feed on silica depending on the species. Though having a growth of them I wouldn't consider a bad thing.

 

Finally, maybe get a lettuce nudi. It might be a band-aid more than a fix, but it should love the bryopsis.

[Scott Riemer]

Are you testing the LFS water at 0-6PPM, or is that what they are telling you it's testing at? And which is it, 0 or 6?

[E36 328i]

bryopsis is stronger than anything else in your tank. Left to its own devices it will just get bigger. I say keep plucking it, water changes and maybe add chaeto to a modified hob filter or straight in the tank to out-compete the bryopsis. In bigger tanks i have heard of people adding bryopsis to their fuge to outcompete the bryopsis in the display that they keep plucking. I also think sponges are good. Think about it... new growth is awesome. it shows good flow and the same kind of nutrients that soft coral use ( for the love of god don't put sps in a pico).

 

I'm going to be transferring the contents of the tank into another tank (7galllon bowfront) once I get the sump, light, and overflow. The reason I ask about the water quality is that when I get new rock I plan to keep this rock and keep it isolated in a bucket until I can get rid of the bryopsis. I don't want to introduce this scourge into a new tank! But I really love the shapes of the rock, so I plan on removing it and scrubbing it with a toothbrush while keeping it in a bucket with high magnesium and high flow to try and beat this bryopsis. The reason I ask about it is that if I am using a bad batch of salt, I really don't want to use it in another tank and have another nutrient crisis. I do have Chaetomorpha in the tank but it doesn't really take off at all and keeps dying back. I don't know why it is being so lackluster.

 

 

Saltwater is supposed to have a high TDS. Are you using your own meter or the lfs?

 

Most TDS meters measures the conductivity if the ions in the water and converts that to a ppm reading.

 

Sponges iirc feed on silica depending on the species. Though having a growth of them I wouldn't consider a bad thing.

 

Finally, maybe get a lettuce nudi. It might be a band-aid more than a fix, but it should love the bryopsis.

 

My personal meter shows my tank's TDS as extremely high (270-300+), while the Milwaukee TDS meter the LFS guy uses shows his own personal frag tank (really nice, mature tank) is showing a TDS of 1. I guess I should ask him if I can check his frag tank's TDS on my meter to see if it matches appropriately. But as I said, he uses a different salt mix than I do.

 

As for the sponges, I read a few posts saying that if you see them multiplying like crazy you have a nutrient problem. While the rock had many beautifully colored black and red sponges on the undersides of the rock (low light sponges?) the sponges that are of concern to me are the white tubular sponges that are appearing every other day or so and growing rapidly in size that make me think the water has some nutrient issues. But maybe I am stressing things too much. The tank has been incredibly stable with parameters.

 

I am thinking of adding one of those (lettuce slugs), but I heard they are incredibly delicate and can be destroyed relatively easily with too much flow (I have quite a bit of flow in the pico).

 

 

Are you testing the LFS water at 0-6PPM, or is that what they are telling you it's testing at? And which is it, 0 or 6?

 

My tests show around 6ppm TDS with a crappy $5.99 Walgreen's special while the LFS guy shows me his TDS with a Milwaukee TDS tester which shows up around 4 (as of late). Usually it shows as 0. His tanks all look really great and his polyps are multiplying like crazy, especially his acanths. So I don't think his RO water is too bad. I do know I need to purchase an RO/DI unit for myself so I can get 0 TDS but his is the best I can find until I can allot the funds to get better.

[glennr1978]

I could be wrong here (but I'm pretty sure I'm not), but your LFS guys is full o' sh1t. If he's telling you his TDS meter is reading 1 for saltwater he's either pulling your chain or just plain lieing to you. I'm pretty sure that TDS is only to be tested for fresh water and not salt.

[vangvace]

Next time you buy something from that lfs use your tds meter on the water in the bag.

 

It does sound like silica BTW and is something that RO filters don't do a good job of filtering out iirc. I recommend changing your RO water source temporarily, say like two months, to see if you have an improvement.

 

 

glennr - tds only matters in the pre-salted water. We assume that the salt mix is good and have no way that I know of to determine an acceptable range for saltwater tds. There are too many variables iirc. Also, what happened to your avatar?

[E36 328i]

glennr - He showed me his TDS meter as a 1 in his tank. I have no idea why it would show up as a 1 since I know saltwater has tons of solids in it. He then put it in freshwater tank to show me and it has a TDS of over a hundred. Back in the RO it showed last a TDS of 5. My crappy TDS meter showed up as 8 in the RO but I didn't check for reference in his tanks to see if mine was so far off.

 

vangvance - I think it is likely to be silica, since I seem to have diatoms popping up on occasion. But would silicates feed the bryopsis? I'm not too concerned about the sponges and diatoms but if I ever want to add corals I know bryopsis first has to be eradicated.

 

FWIW, I've only switched to this particular guy's RO for a few weeks, for whatever reason my prior source seemed to make the bryopsis bloom like crazy. (Hence the switch.)

 

Maybe I'm overshooting this a little and need to monitor it a little longer. I really need to get my own RO/DI though!

[er1c_the_reefer]

do you know how to calibrate your tds meter? or better yet, does the lfs guy know how to calibrate his tds meter?

 

tds meters test for conductivity of the water, which in simple terms means that it checks to see how many ions are in the water that are capable of carrying a charge.

 

tds in saltwater should read through the roof because saltwater is highly conductively. if it reads at zero, i would highly suggest recalibrating or tossing the meter. tds in most ro/di water should be <5ppm. tds in good quality distilled water should be <1ppm. tds in a freshwater fish tank can vary depending on if they're treating with copper, dosing iron, adding amquel, etc.

[vangvace]

glennr - He showed me his TDS meter as a 1 in his tank. I have no idea why it would show up as a 1 since I know saltwater has tons of solids in it. He then put it in freshwater tank to show me and it has a TDS of over a hundred. Back in the RO it showed last a TDS of 5. My crappy TDS meter showed up as 8 in the RO but I didn't check for reference in his tanks to see if mine was so far off.

 

vangvance - I think it is likely to be silica, since I seem to have diatoms popping up on occasion. But would silicates feed the bryopsis? I'm not too concerned about the sponges and diatoms but if I ever want to add corals I know bryopsis first has to be eradicated.

 

FWIW, I've only switched to this particular guy's RO for a few weeks, for whatever reason my prior source seemed to make the bryopsis bloom like crazy. (Hence the switch.)

 

Maybe I'm overshooting this a little and need to monitor it a little longer. I really need to get my own RO/DI though!

I could have sworn that Bryopsis feed on silica, but I cannot find a link to back that claim up. Have you seen a slow-down in growth?

 

What was your prior water source if you don't mind me asking? I might consider looking into walmart water (purple cap iirc). But then again I don't really trust any lfs.

 

I would take it's photoperiod down to an hour or so a day for I didn't notice any mention of any in your build thread.

[E36 328i]

do you know how to calibrate your tds meter? or better yet, does the lfs guy know how to calibrate his tds meter?

 

tds meters test for conductivity of the water, which in simple terms means that it checks to see how many ions are in the water that are capable of carrying a charge.

 

tds in saltwater should read through the roof because saltwater is highly conductively. if it reads at zero, i would highly suggest recalibrating or tossing the meter. tds in most ro/di water should be <5ppm. tds in good quality distilled water should be <1ppm. tds in a freshwater fish tank can vary depending on if they're treating with copper, dosing iron, adding amquel, etc.

 

My TDS meter is just a Walgreen's Special throwaway (I wanted to ballpark figure TDS in RO water). If I remember correct it is calibrated at the ~250 range as it is intended for Tap Water and use with some sort of quasi drinking water filtration system. I am certain the LFS guy calibrates his TDS meter properly. He is very good and isn't the type that just tries to get you to buy stuff. Maybe it was just a larf that it showed as 1 in his tank. As for my personal TDS meter, it reads my saltwater TDS as very high.

 

 

I could have sworn that Bryopsis feed on silica, but I cannot find a link to back that claim up. Have you seen a slow-down in growth?

 

What was your prior water source if you don't mind me asking? I might consider looking into walmart water (purple cap iirc). But then again I don't really trust any lfs.

 

I would take it's photoperiod down to an hour or so a day for I didn't notice any mention of any in your build thread.

 

That would really be cool if I could find out more about Bryopsis. I've found out alot and what I've found is that it feeds on phosphates and nitrates (or whatever other miscellaneous nutrients are in the water). It can survive without any light at all as it has filamentary strands which can basically filter the water for extra nutrients. As for slow down in growth, since I changed RO water to this guy the growth has slowed dramatically.

 

My prior water source was another LFS so I can't really help you there. I have used Albertson's Distilled Water ($2.99/gallon) in a pinch and that stuff was really good (read 0 TDS) but at $2.99+ a gallon it is EXPENSIVE even for a picotope.

 

As for the photoperiod, for the past two weeks I have turned the photoperiod down to absolutely nothing (maybe 2 mins everyday when I top off--once in the morning and once at night). When I used to keep it at a normal photoperiod the bryopsis would bead like crazy. Something of interest about bryopsis is that since I turned the photoperiod off the stuff became much thinner and longer (extending to gain more nutrients?) than when I used to keep it well-lit.

[vangvace]

Did you block the light coming on through the glass too? It becoming thinner sounds about right btw.

[E36 328i]

Did you block the light coming on through the glass too? It becoming thinner sounds about right btw.

 

Yeah, I use a towel and cover it completely. No light passes through. Only time I prop her open is to top off. A nice thing about the towel trick is that temperatures at night stay much more consistent than without any covering. I think I will use this ghetto-fab insulation method on future tanks.

[adinsxq]

1. use 0 tds water

2. stop feeding 1 week

3. lights out 3 days

4. change water

[bdare]

You mentioned you still have a CUC?? Are there snails still in your tank? Byprosis kills snails so if you've still got em it could be something else...

 

Also, what Mg supplement did you use to raise your levels? From what I read on the RC forum it seems like Kent TechM is about the only thing that works...

[Guest SlowNnice]

do you know how to calibrate your tds meter? or better yet, does the lfs guy know how to calibrate his tds meter?

 

tds meters test for conductivity of the water, which in simple terms means that it checks to see how many ions are in the water that are capable of carrying a charge.

 

tds in saltwater should read through the roof because saltwater is highly conductively. if it reads at zero, i would highly suggest recalibrating or tossing the meter. tds in most ro/di water should be <5ppm. tds in good quality distilled water should be <1ppm. tds in a freshwater fish tank can vary depending on if they're treating with copper, dosing iron, adding amquel, etc.

 

I have a TDS meter that has a 10x icon on it. I wonder if the LFS guy has one that reads 1 when it is higher by a multiplier?

[AZDesertRat]

New saltwater will be somewhere over 32,000 TDS, way above even the 10x range of a hobbyist grade TDS meter which will read to 9,999 by tens.