Micro-Small Algae Remover System for Nano's: Free!

[Mr. Fosi]

I was thinking it was a bit high-powered too, but it's what he says he wants.

[Bamato]

4x24 T5HO and a 750gph pump?

 

 

Damn. To think, with all that sump space, you could just get an internal skimmer and remove DOCs before they even turn into nitrates and phosphates...

 

Hit the nail on the head.....

[Phyto4life]

4x24 T5HO and a 750gph pump?

 

 

Damn. To think, with all that sump space, you could just get an internal skimmer and remove DOCs before they even turn into nitrates and phosphates...

 

 

true

 

I will also be dosing diy phytoplankton and have a small fishload so I want to leave in alot of protein's I know I could just get a skimmer and feed more and add more fish but would rather not just to see if I can duplicate my last few tanks while mass dosing phytoplankton

 

it is more of a coral prop tank with 1 mandarin and 2 chromis

 

 

I'll be placing the ATS right over the sump in the middle about 6" above top of sump and build a shelf aprox 12" W with legs then drill holes for the return/drain

 

unplugged and sold this guy

 

 

bought this stuff so far:

 

 

 

 

 

hoping to grow this:

 

[Marteen]

I'm pretty sure a screen and light will not grow a human hand.

[Phyto4life]

Don't mind if my measurement's are off I'm not all that good at DIY

 

I'll stick with 6500K for now then try a lower K possibly later as the screen grows to see if I get a little extra growth

 

What light cycle should I use 16 hours or 18 hours ON or?

 

will a reverse cycle help keep ph a little more balanced at night when display light's are off?

 

will the 750 gph of water going over say a 24" screen with 4 x 24" t5 h.o effect water temp and how lower/higher/balanced out?

 

was thinking of using 3/16th thick acrylic would this be thick enough because I'm trying to go for this look

 

 

but in black

 

I like that suggestion about leaving a small gap between the canopy and acrylic box because in this pic ^

I noticed there is a real small gap

 

If I can get another human hand like this

 

 

worth of phosphate and nitrate would be great because all I'm scrapping from the glass/overflow box now is less then 1 ounce a week

[Mr. Fosi]

What light cycle should I use 16 hours or 18 hours ON or?

 

That's up to you. Depends on how much energy you want to use and how much N/P reduction you are trying to attain. It also depends on how often you want to clean the screen. More light = cleaning more often.

 

will a reverse cycle help keep ph a little more balanced?

 

It can but whether it will is something you have to test.

 

will the 750 gph of water going over say a 24" screen with 4 x 24" t5 h.o effect water temp and how lower/higher/balanced out?

 

Again, you'll have to test it. If it is hot in the box and little moisture can escape, the water temp will increase. If the box leaks air, then you'll get more evap but it's hard to know if that will balance out the radiant heat transfer.

 

was thinking of using 3/16th thick acrylic would this be thick enough because I'm trying to go for this look

 

I suppose you can use whatever you want, but I wouldn't use anything thinner than 1/4".

 

 

Looks relatively safe and non-ghetto. You can have that look with 1/4", you just need to measure/cut properly.

 

If you have a firm idea of what algae you want to have on that screen, I strongly suggest that you seed or "pre-plant" the screen before you start it. If you don't, you are leaving it up to the competition/grazing dynamics to do it for you and you may not like where it shakes out.

[Phyto4life]

what about a drain I'm a little concerned about if something like the turf or whatever ends up growing will fall off for what ever reason and clog a small drain say under 1200 gph drain

 

should I just play it safe and go with 2 x 1200 gph drain's front and back at the bottom or more?

 

I'll probably add 1 large fan blowing accross one side this one here

will it be enough to keep cool with a 1/4" gap between box and light canopy and not melt 3/16th acrylic?

 

I'll probably leave the lid off as well for extra cooling because I don't want to add 1 degree to my 8 t5 h.o on a 90G/25G sump

 

If you have a firm idea of what algae you want to have on that screen, I strongly suggest that you seed or "pre-plant" the screen before you start it. If you don't, you are leaving it up to the competition/grazing dynamics to do it for you and you may not like where it shakes out.

 

how would I do this?

[Mr. Fosi]

Backup drains are always nice, but you are already overshooting your pump output by more than 400gph. If you can fit it and be happy, go for it.

[Phyto4life]

True

 

I'll put 2 x 1200 gph drains

 

this will allow me to see the water level at the bottom of the box at all times

 

how far approx from the bottom of the drilled hole using 1200 gph drain hole to the bottom of the acrylic box should I leave because I don't want it cracking if I hit it a bit is 4" fine using 3/16" thick acrylic it will be placed in the middle of the box 1 in the front and 1 in the back towards bottom?

 

I'm hoping to have atleast 10" under the light canopies

[Mr. Fosi]

I'll let someone else chime in here rather than talk out of my butt.

[c_k_kuehne]

Well if I am reading this right the unit is only 24" x 6" x 6" which equals less then 4 gallons total. You are planing a 750 gph pump for only a 4 gallon ATS ?? Even if you add in some head pressure for elbows etc... that is still 150 times turnover per hour or more. I always thought ATS's worked better with slower flow compared to higher flow. Either way 150 times turnover seems way overkill and plumbed correctly would be closer to 200 times turnover.

 

If I was attempting this adventure I would go down to a pump that gave at the most 50 times turnover or so. A 300 gph pump with some head pressure would do the trick. If plumbed correctly you should be able to go down to 1" bulkhead with out any issues especially if you have a backup bulkhead.

 

To get 1200 gph capability you would need a 2" bulkhead.

 

A 1" bulkhead uses a 1 3/4" hole

A 2" bulkhead uses a 3 1/4" hole

 

The smaller the bulkhead --- smaller hole --- less stress on the design integrity.

 

Am i missing something here ?????

 

.

[Phyto4life]

Not sure if this clears it up a little this is just a rough estimate and I'm concerned about algae blocking the drain or not going down if it was to fall off for what ever reason even thou I plan to rough it up like a cactus using a holesaw and scraping the 3 screens glued ontop of each other

 

The water level in the box should be imo around 3" to 4" max hopefully to make it structurally safe but double checking because it is a estimate

 

the box will be made with 3/16" thick acrylic approx 26" L x 3"-4" W x 12"-16" H height is depending on the distance the bulkhead is needed from the bottom to make it structurally safe

 

the screen inside will be 22"-24" L x 8-10"H

 

the unit will be light and filled with less then 2 G of water

 

But if anyone can suggest 2 bulkhead drain size that will be safe would help it look better and would be great?

[HecticDialectics]

how on earth did you arrive at 1200gph for a 2 gallon "fuge"?

[Phyto4life]

Not sure I know everyone else is using less I just want to be safe that's all I'm new to diy and am concerned about clogging

 

I've been saving every info I get on word pad I'm down to just a few last questions

 

I want to keep the 2 bulkheads on each side even level wise 1 front and 1 back in the middle towards the bottom if I can get away with 2 bulkheads under 1200gph would be great any suggestions?

 

I'm really concerned because of how fast a 5G box can fill up using a 750gph pump

[HecticDialectics]

instead of making a bulkhead drain, leave the whole side open?

[Phyto4life]

I could do that but I want it to go on the same side as my display side drain on the left side in this pic approx 12"x12x"12" that has a 1" opening at the bottom to prevent bubbles from entering the return

 

[Mr. Fosi]

To pre-plant the screen with the algae you want by tying it on. Treat it like a planted FW tank. You can let it grow up without any help, but you don't know what you will get.

[c_k_kuehne]

the box will be made with 3/16" thick acrylic approx 26" L x 3"-4" W x 12"-16" H height is depending on the distance the bulkhead is needed from the bottom to make it structurally safe

 

26" x 4" x 16" is still only a little over 7 gallons. 750 gph / 7 gallons is still over 100 times turnover per hour. My recommendation is still at most a 300 gph pump. You will need some kind of baffle system or the drain bulkhead up towards the top.

 

You really need to do a lot more research and come up with a reasonable plan for a ATS. IMO your current plan is not a reasonable plan. I am one to believe that any type of filter system can work as long as your dedicated in the design, on-going maintenance of that system and realize it's abilities and limitations.

 

With all that said I lived my 1st 30 years of life outside of Washington D.C. and went to the Natural History Museum (In Washington D.C.) at least once a year. They had a huge natural reef exhibit that used a ex-large wave bucket/ATS system as their main filtration. For years and years and years they killed corals in that system and only kept it somewhat alive by constantly replacing the corals. Eventually they took it down because the ATS was not a viable solution for long term filtration in a enclosed reef environment. ------ Just my personal observations after 15 or 20 years of looking at a constantly declining natural reef system.

[Phyto4life]

Mr fosi

 

Is the algae on a average person's glass something that will turn into turf algae?

 

or is it usually the stuff that accumulates on overflow boxes?

 

or does it depend on your condition of your water?

 

asking because right now I have orange in my tank from adding new rock,last week red in my tank from getting rid of a detritus problem/flow problem but before that a healthy hair algae just in the overflow which is close to my light's when everything was healthy?

[c_k_kuehne]

The other issue I see is maintenance on this system. From what I have read you will need to maintain this system a few times per week once it gets going. This system seems like a maintenance nightmare.

 

Why not put a shallow pan above your sump with a slightly raised up screen. Have a high flow power head pumping water into one side of the pan. Have the pan at a slight angle so the water naturally flows across the screen to the far end of the pan. At the outflow side of the pan have a short walled end so the water just flows over and into the sump. You can then hang some PC's above the pan. It would be an open top system so evaporation would be high but a simple ATO system would solve that problem. The open top would help with any heat issues generated in the main display and would also be super easy maintenance since you would have easy access to the algae screen.

[Phyto4life]

26" x 4" x 16" is still only a little over 7 gallons. 750 gph / 7 gallons is still over 100 times turnover per hour. My recommendation is still at most a 300 gph pump. You will need some kind of baffle system or the drain bulkhead up towards the top.

 

You really need to do a lot more research and come up with a reasonable plan for a ATS. IMO your current plan is not a reasonable plan. I am one to believe that any type of filter system can work as long as your dedicated in the design, on-going maintenance of that system and realize it's abilities and limitations.

 

With all that said I lived my 1st 30 years of life outside of Washington D.C. and went to the Natural History Museum (In Washington D.C.) at least once a year. They had a huge natural reef exhibit that used a ex-large wave bucket/ATS system as their main filtration. For years and years and years they killed corals in that system and only kept it somewhat alive by constantly replacing the corals. Eventually they took it down because the ATS was not a viable solution for long term filtration in a enclosed reef environment. ------ Just my personal observations after 15 or 20 years of looking at a constantly declining natural reef system.

 

I've been working on refugeless/skimmerless tanks for 7 years and will never say that my tank is better then a tank with a large fish load/large refuge and large feeding and large skimmer

 

but how does that compare to my successful refugeless/skimmerless tank with mass doses of phytoplankton what is it that allows my tank to be so successful without a large fish load/large feeding/large skimmer/refuge which your tank imo is better but mine is still OK?

 

my only problem with my system is the fact I have to scrape my glass 2 times a week when I want to cut it down to 1 time a week

 

can a ATS reduce the amount of inorganics in the water in which causes a successful refugeless/skimmerless coral prop tank to grow algae on the glass?

 

I'm not too much into failing because I would of failed along time ago with a refugeless/skimmerless tank it's just not going to happen because of my skill level and husbandry

 

but I can see why people are skeptical about a ATS because everything else has been proven wait and see if a ATS is proven and if it is not then at least for all the people that have a skimmer and have a refuge that can't reduce your nitrate/phosphate to acceptable level this is just another option that's all

 

JUST ANOTHER OPTION AT MINIMAL and a great option considering all the stories I hear about cheato not growing because of there ATS what a shame?

[c_k_kuehne]

but how does that compare to my successful refugless/skimmerless tank with mass doses of phytoplankton what is it that allows my tank to be so successful without a large fishload/large feeding/large skimmer/refuge?

 

my only problem with my system is the fact I have to scrape my glass 2 times a week when I want to cut it down to 1 time a week

 

You weren't talking about a skimmerless/fugeless system you were asking about a ATS system and so that is a direct correlation.

 

My last very successful 7 gallon Minibow was skimmerless and fugeless and ATSless. Just a plain HOB for circulation and a bag of purigen.

 

As for cleaning the glass -- that is about 1 min's time twice a week with a MagFloat. I bet a ATS will be way more maintenance then that if maintenance in scraping the glass is your only goal.

[Phyto4life]

You weren't talking about a skimmerless/fugeless system you were asking about a ATS system and so that is a direct correlation.

 

My last very successful 7 gallon Minibow was skimmerless and fugeless and ATSless. Just a plain HOB for circulation and a bag of purigen.

 

As for cleaning the glass -- that is about 1 min's time twice a week with a MagFloat. I bet a ATS will be way more maintenance then that if maintenance in scraping the glass is your only goal.

 

 

more maintenance is welcomed this way you can feed and feed alot without worrying about lack of organics or increase in inorganics

 

your food is not being wasted your money will remain in your pocket and all things organics are consumed and everything inorganic is consumed/removed

[clownfish617]

hows it free? i have to buy the screen and light?

[Mr. Fosi]

The algae that you linked as the algae you want to have is not like what I have seen in even the most poorly maintained tanks. I suspect that it isn't common since you don't see it on many of these setups.

 

You will certainly get algae on the screen and it may work for you, but if you want a specific sort, you will want to pre-plant it to be sure you get it.