Jump to content


Photo

A 40 breeder bulid by Xytrix


  • Please log in to reply
67 replies to this topic

#1
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA

I have actually been in love with the dimensions of the AGA 40 breeder for some time now, and purchased the tank at petco during their $1/gallon sale last year. I got busy and the tank got put in the garage for storage. Recently though I have regained interest in my reef and started to think about the 40 again. I wasn't going to set it up just yet due to a general lack of funds, but then about 2 weeks ago I was changing the filter sock on my 10 gallon, and I bumped into the plumbing and cracked the bottom of the tank. I transfered everything quickly into buckets and then into the 20 long that is supposed to be the sump for the 40. I'm happy to say that everything lived through the process.

And so begins the build of what will hopefully become another epic 40 breeder on nano-reef. I have been reeding a lot and am hugely inspired by Glen, Stoney waters, TJ, bdare, and others. I have taken ideas from all their builds, and hopefully i will come out with one really great system Thanks guys!

Right now the tank is sitting in my yard, undrilled, and i've been doing all my planning on the computer. I figure that this thread needs to get to at least 10 pages before i can actually begin working on the tank! LOL

My next post should include some drawings and a proposed system setup.

Let the games begin!

Edited by Xytrix01, 03 August 2008 - 05:08 PM.

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#2
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
So as far as system plans go, I've recently discovered this program by Google called Scetchup. It looks like some people on here are already using it, but for those who don't know its basically autocad for dummies. It lets you make professional looking 3D drawings without having to have a masters in modeling and design. Try it out, it's amazing. All the drawings below were done using the program.

I'm thinking that I can build a stand far cheaper than I can buy a pre-built one, and this way i can control what I want it to look like including how tall it is and what custom stain I like! I more or less copied the design from this thread:
http://www.nano-reef...?...62482&st=40

I'm planing to make the frame out of 1x4s too. The difference is that i intend to skin it on all sides with 1/4" hardwood ply. The thing should be rock solid. I really don't think i'll have any trouble with the weight of the tank, especially with the outer skin. I planed the stand with blocks of wood on the inside to screw the top and bottom to the vertical supports, but if I do it right,and use plenty of construction adhesive (liquid nails or similar) then i should be able to use the outer skin to hold the whole thing together, thus eliminating the internal blocks and freeing up almost 2" inside the stand.

The frame: (shown without the internal blocks)
Posted Image

Partly skinned:
Posted Image

All finished, doors closed:
Posted Image

All finished, doors open:
Posted Image

Back view: (I may need to make the hole for the plumbing bigger, we'll see)
Posted Image

With the tank, front view:
Posted Image

With the tank, back view:
Posted Image

If anyone would like these models to use, I can upload them to the Google 3D warehouse, so you can d-load them and use them to plan your tank.
As for the plumbing, I haven't figured out how to make pipes in this program, but I can describe it.
Posted Image

The bottom center hole will be the primary drain to the sump. I'm going to try out the herbie(???) method on the drain. The one where you use a gate valve to regulate the water level in the overflow, keeping the water like 3/4" below the teeth. There is no standpipe to speak of, the water just gets sucked down the naked bulkhead in sort of a rate controlled siphon. This results in no air in the lines which means a super silent overflow. The hole top center is going to be an emergency drain in case a snail or something gets into the primary drain. The only thing I might change here is that i may put the main drain in the bottom. I'm not sure though.

The lower right hand hole will be my closed loop intake, returned through the two upper holes via a SCWD. If i don't like the SCWD, then it will just tee off to the holes. I'm thinking that I may try to include like a 6" chunk of vinyl tubing between all the bulkheads and the hardlines to act as a vibration and accidental bump protector. It may cut GPH a bit, but its better than cracking a tank by accidentally hitting plumbing! The water will be returned from the sump via an over the top style manifold. I did this to avoid having 7 holes in the glass. I've used this style return on all my tanks thus far, and had no issues with it.

I have a Quietone 4000 and a Quietone 4000HH that i plan to use for the closed loop and sump return pumps respectively. I bought these pumps for a different project, but didn't use them, so i figure why not. If I don't like them then i'll just get something else.

I haven't yet figured out the sump, lighting, hood, or stocking other than whats chillin' in the 20L right now.
I'll post when i figure that out!
-Xytrix

Edited by Xytrix01, 03 August 2008 - 07:50 PM.

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#3
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
Wow, I guess fancy 3d graphics aren't enough to impress people anymore... hahaha.
Just wait till I bust out the power tools, That'll get you people talking! I kinda need to get a job first though...

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#4
glennr1978

glennr1978

    one proud dad!

  • Members
  • 11,896 posts
  • Joined 30 Nov 2006
Sweet, another one to add to the club!!

Since you already have the QO4000HH maybe you should consider adding pendutors / eductors to your CL. I guess it really depends on what you want to keep in the tank, but since you already have the pump for it......

How long did it take you to do those diagrams? Was it hard (I'm not computer illiterate, I'm computer retarded)? That program could be very useful to me while planning my next build.

Edited by glennr1978, 05 August 2008 - 12:26 AM.


#5
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
The diagrams were pretty easy to do. The tank probably took me about 2 hours, while the stand was probably about 6. The program is VERY east to figure out, i picked up on it in about an hour. The nice part is on the site where you download it there is a whole set of instructional videos ranging from the very basic concepts up through the really advance curves and textures. And thanks to our friends Google, they are all FREE! The ability to download other peoples models that they have uploaded makes this really handy as well, and can save you a lot of work.

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#6
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
These pendutor / eductor things are really interesting... I never thought of something like this. It seems to be a venturi kind of thing, using the flow from the pump to draw even more tank water in and through the nozzel for more overall flow, even though the pump is doing the same amount of work. I really like the idea, and I think I very well change my plans a bit to try these out. If they actually do what i'm thinking they do, then i'm not sure why these aren't used in like EVERY tank that has a CL or even a return. It seems that you are getting more flow without additional power heads or pumps. What's not to like? Anyone else have experience with these?

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#7
AdriftQuasar

AdriftQuasar

    Salty Creeper

  • Members
  • 1,149 posts
  • Joined 05 Jul 2007
  • Kirksville, MO
Seeing new 40 breeders pop up all the time really makes me want to start a 40 breeder with a 40 gallon sump. You're really not helping with the temptation.
20H: Started March 2007

Every time your "cube" doesn't have the same dimensions on each side, a little bit of reef dies.

I'm all about suckering the noobs. I've made plenty of good money off them.


#8
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
DO IT!!! Give in to the peer pressure! MUAHahahahahaha!

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#9
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
Ok, so I'm trying to decide on plumbing sizes. I want to buy as few hole saws as possible, so I'm thinking of making everything 1". All the returns could probably be 3/4, but then I'd have to buy two bits. I'm guessing that I'm going to be running about 600gph through the overflow, and the calculator on RC says a 1" drain line should be good. Any thoughts on this? I doubt that i'll have a problem with it, and i can put a bleed off valve on the output of the pump in case i need to turn down the flow. I'm thinking that there shouldn't be any problems going with 1" bulkheads all around, and if I want to i can always use reducing bushings to step the closed loop down to 3/4".

Based on glens suggestion of the pendutors I'm thinking i'll reverse the pumps, using the model 4000 as the return, and the 4000HH for the closed loop through the SCWD and two pendutors. I was going to put the SCWD on the return, but i don't think that 600gph is going to be enough to drive it. Any thoughts on this?

Edited by Xytrix01, 07 August 2008 - 10:21 PM.

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#10
glennr1978

glennr1978

    one proud dad!

  • Members
  • 11,896 posts
  • Joined 30 Nov 2006

These pendutor / eductor things are really interesting... I never thought of something like this. It seems to be a venturi kind of thing, using the flow from the pump to draw even more tank water in and through the nozzel for more overall flow, even though the pump is doing the same amount of work. I really like the idea, and I think I very well change my plans a bit to try these out. If they actually do what i'm thinking they do, then i'm not sure why these aren't used in like EVERY tank that has a CL or even a return. It seems that you are getting more flow without additional power heads or pumps. What's not to like? Anyone else have experience with these?


Apparently you need a pressure rated pump for them to work properly.


Ok, so I'm trying to decide on plumbing sizes. I want to buy as few hole saws as possible, so I'm thinking of making everything 1" all the returns could probably be 3/4, but then I'd have to but two bits. I'm guessing that I'm going to be running about 600gph through the overflow, and the calculator on RC says a 1" drain line should be good. Any thoughts on this? I'm thinking that there shouldn't be any problems going 1" and if I want to i can always use reducing bushings to step the closed loop down to 3/4".

Based on glens suggestion of the pendutors I'm thinking i'll reverse the pumps, using the model 4000 as the return, and the 4000HH for the closed loop through the SCWD and two pendutors. I was going to put the SCWD on the return, but i don't think that 600gph is going to be enough to drive it. Any thoughts on this?


Sounds good to me, except I would opt for a lower gph return pump. You want the water to move through your sump fairly slow.

#11
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
Ok, so is the 4000HH not a pressure pump of sorts? i would imagine it's got to produce some pressure in order to pump higher... I also noticed that the outlet on the high head is 3/4 as opposed to 1" on the 4000.

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#12
glennr1978

glennr1978

    one proud dad!

  • Members
  • 11,896 posts
  • Joined 30 Nov 2006

Ok, so is the 4000HH not a pressure pump of sorts? i would imagine it's got to produce some pressure in order to pump higher... I also noticed that the outlet on the high head is 3/4 as opposed to 1" on the 4000.

I could be completely wrong, but I'm pretty sure the HH will do the job.

#13
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
True. I think any pump can move water, but for them to work properly they need to be creating some sort of pressure. I'm fairly sure that the High Head unit should do the job, especial if i put it through the SCWD so all the water is flowing out of one outlet or another. Splitting them evenly may reduce the flow too much for these to do their job. Of course if the SCWD puts too much restriction on the pump, i may have to come up with something else.

Now as for the return pump. Just going off the chart on the box, the model 4000 should be putting out ~600gph at 6 feet of head. The head loss calc at RC says I'm going to end up with 12 feet total head loss, and if that's true then this pump won't do squat, because it maxes out at 10.2 feet. I already own the pumps, so i'm inclined to just use them, and then if they don't work, I'll swap them for something else.

Edited by Xytrix01, 07 August 2008 - 10:34 PM.

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#14
glennr1978

glennr1978

    one proud dad!

  • Members
  • 11,896 posts
  • Joined 30 Nov 2006

True. I think any pump can move water, but for them to work properly they need to be creating some sort of pressure. I'm fairly sure that the High Head unit should do the job, especial if i put it through the SCWD so all the water is flowing out of one outlet or another. Splitting them evenly may reduce the flow too much for these to do their job. Of course if the SCWD puts too much restriction on the pump, i may have to come up with something else.

Now as for the return pump. Just going off the chart on the box, the model 4000 should be putting out ~600gph at 6 feet of head. The head loss calc at RC says I'm going to end up with 12 feet total head loss, and if that's true then this pump won't do squat, because it maxes out at 10.2 feet. I already own the pumps, so i'm inclined to just use them, and then if they don't work, I'll swap them for something else.


hmm..

Fwiw, I run a QO2200 for my return and it does it's job great. It just seems to me that a 4000 would be a bit much.

#15
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
So what would you say that you're flowing through your sump? 250 to 300gph?

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#16
glennr1978

glennr1978

    one proud dad!

  • Members
  • 11,896 posts
  • Joined 30 Nov 2006

So what would you say that you're flowing through your sump? 250 to 300gph?

yep, not likely to be any more than 300gph. I don't even turn the return pump off when I feed the fish (all others get turned off or they would never have a chance at catching any of the food!!). It may be slow, but atleast there's plenty of contact time with my skimmer, and fuge.

#17
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
Cool. You run the pump internally right? Is it as quiet as they say? I may just sell the 4000 in favor of something slower. I like the quiet one pumps i have seen working, but they have all been externally mounted , and it was too loud in the store to really hear how much noise the pump put out. I have always had external pumps, but i'm thinking about submerging the return on this system to save space in the stand, and to make cleaning the pump easier. Also, how warm does your pump get? That's my only worry about going internal.

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#18
glennr1978

glennr1978

    one proud dad!

  • Members
  • 11,896 posts
  • Joined 30 Nov 2006

Cool. You run the pump internally right? Is it as quiet as they say? I may just sell the 4000 in favor of something slower. I like the quiet one pumps i have seen working, but they have all been externally mounted , and it was too loud in the store to really hear how much noise the pump put out. I have always had external pumps, but i'm thinking about submerging the return on this system to save space in the stand, and to make cleaning the pump easier. Also, how warm does your pump get? That's my only worry about going internal.


Yeah I run it submerged. To tell you the truth I don't have alot of experience with a wide variety of pumps. I would say it is fairly quiet. It's no louder than any mag pumps (the only other brand I've used) I've ever had. It does run cooler than the mags though. I have a QO4000 that I thought about trying out on my 30g (since the mag9.5 puts out so much heat) to try and salvage the build, but it would be to much of a PITA to switch it out now. I have plans for a AIO 40 breeder frag / reef tank now anyway. The 30g will be outta here soon.

#19
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
Ok, new idea, but i'm going to need to see if it will work.

I'm considering an external overflow on the back. I saw it on another tank, and really liked the way it looked, plus it frees up space inside the tank. The thing is he was using 2 durso standpipes inside the box and was complaining of noise. I want to try out the herbie method, as it seems to be the quietest. I'm worried though that there isn't going to be enough depth to an external box, and that it will vortex and suck air, negating the whole point. Any thoughts on this? I want this system to run as silent as possible, and if that means giving up a bit of tank space, then i suppose it's worth it.

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#20
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
Basicly, I was thinking something like this:

Posted Image

Posted Image

The two 1" holes in the bottom would be teed together and run down to the sump. I used 2 because it will hopefully spread the suction out, eliminating those little water swirls you get when draining your bathtub. The hole up on the side will be plumbed separately, and serve as the emergency drain.

Once i figure out how to draw plumbing, this may make more sense.

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#21
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
Oh dear, I have goofed. I just pulled out the pumps to have a reference for my model, and i discovered that I don't have a model 4000 at all. For some reason I bought a model 6000! That means this thing is going to want to push almost 900gph through the sump! %&*&(*#())@#(O*&#@^&!!! Now I know that is going to be too much for the fuge. I may have to rethink my sump so that the refuguim is getting fed from a tee on the return with a valve to throttle back the flow. That or sell this pump off and buy something else. I'm actually thinking that might be the best option, I mean I want a lot of flow, but that just seems excessive. I'd also have to change out the drain plumbing for larger too.

Screw it, I'm selling it. Anyone want to but a brand new in box quiet one 6000?

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#22
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
I figured out how to do pipes! Just take a look at the wonderful mess i made!

Posted Image

Posted Image

Please excuse the ghetto model of the penductors, I have no idea what they actually look like, so i made something up. I'll explain more in when i wake up, as it's 5am and i got so caught up in this that I forgot to go to sleep! TGIF right?

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#23
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
I took some pictures of the corals I have that will one day end up in this tank. Figured i'd post them here...

First my green mushrooms:
Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

My ricordia. He used to be more green, but he got lost under a rock for a while during the move, and now that I found him again he's all sorts of pretty colors.

Posted Image

My acan frags. I really like these corals, and can't wait for them to grow into nice big colonies.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Look close, you can see what looks like a piece of coralline , but it's actually a tiny hear of a pink candy cane acan. I thought I lost this colony in the last crash, but it survived. That head has tripled in size!
Posted Image

My pavona? cactus coral. I thought that i lost this one too, but noticed a polyp or two. now it's up to like 25-30. I think it'll make a comeback.
Posted Image

My red leg crab having some salad.
Posted Image

A single orange zoa
Posted Image

My green skirt zoa colony. I hope it fills the whole rock.
Posted Image

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#24
joel sandoman

joel sandoman

    Bay Area

  • Members
  • 1,970 posts
  • Joined 28 Nov 2005
  • San Lorenzo, CA
wow those drawings look cool. They make me feel stupid.

#25
Xytrix01

Xytrix01

    Reef naked...It keeps your clothes dry!

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Joined 30 Jan 2005
  • San Jose, CA
Aww i'm sorry, i didn't mean to make anyone feel stupid. I'm not a 3d modeler by any stretch of the imagination, but the scetchup program makes it really easy to do. I bet you could figure it out.

"Dang!!! I got saltwater on my pajamas!" -Me

Click to view:

Posted Image

Posted Image