Jump to content


Photo

lgreen's Mandarin FAQ


  • Please log in to reply
166 replies to this topic

#26
acmefish

acmefish

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 61 posts
  • Joined 23 Jun 2008
  • Denver CO

I talk to a men today that breeds Mandarins he told me that they may also eat http://www.vividaqua...Code=02-9002-10 My LFS will not have them in till next week so I will get them then. But for now I just got my pods today so my Mandarin is happy hunting them for now.

Pics of my Mandarin here>
http://www.nano-reef...howtopic=170848

Posted Image

#27
xenon

xenon

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 601 posts
  • Joined 06 Jan 2007
  • Ottawa, Ontario
I can buy 7oz of live copepods for $28.

How many ounces would a mandarin require monthly?

#28
Seiryoku

Seiryoku

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 6,160 posts
  • Joined 01 May 2006
  • Sacramento, CA

I can buy 7oz of live copepods for $28.

How many ounces would a mandarin require monthly?


None if you train it to eat frozen mysis and or pellets, etc etc.

There is a thread in the fish section about Mandarins with some excellent info for training them to eat prepared foods.

#29
xenon

xenon

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 601 posts
  • Joined 06 Jan 2007
  • Ottawa, Ontario

None if you train it to eat frozen mysis and or pellets, etc etc.

There is a thread in the fish section about Mandarins with some excellent info for training them to eat prepared foods.


Been there, done that.

I had one eating mysis no problem but I would need to feed him 10X per day to keep him fat.

If all I need to do is dump live pods in the nano to keep him fed that would be the ultimate setup.

#30
Seiryoku

Seiryoku

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 6,160 posts
  • Joined 01 May 2006
  • Sacramento, CA
Can't answer your question in that case >_< I'd be will to bet your monthly pod bill would be rather large though.

#31
xenon

xenon

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 601 posts
  • Joined 06 Jan 2007
  • Ottawa, Ontario
Has anyone tried breeding pods?

It seems pretty simple to me. Setup a 10g tank with lots of phyto to keep the pods well fed with an air pump to keep the water oxygenated and they will multiply like crazy!

Scoop up a bunch of pods into the nano every few days to keep the mandarin nice and fat.

#32
Seiryoku

Seiryoku

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 6,160 posts
  • Joined 01 May 2006
  • Sacramento, CA
If you have a large fuge (on any system) you can make a bunch of "pod condos" and rotate them through your mandarin tank, it is something I'll probably do even if I get mine trained on prepared foods.

#33
davidncbrown

davidncbrown

    Let the good times roll!

  • Members
  • 924 posts
  • Joined 14 Jun 2008
  • Sacramento, CA

Just wondering if Capital Aquarium is still in business? When I lived in Sactown and Elk Grove I use to go their almost weekly... :D


Capital aquarium is horrible. Last time I was in there, there was a tank with a floating bag of 40 dead clown loaches in it. There was also a tank with a butterfly and a tiny skunk clown in it that had an excess of 50,000 bristleworms in it! I'm not joking, the sand and rock (the two tiny pieces of fake rock) were red and moving because there were so many worms. I't was like a horror flick, I hate hate HATE bristle worms now. I swear I could single handily run that place better than the idiots that work there... but I'm not bitter! :P I go to Aqualife in Rocklin instead, which is a million times better.

#34
Acerone

Acerone

    Novice

  • Members
  • 116 posts
  • Joined 03 Sep 2008
  • Long Island, NY

Yeah they are, but I don't even bother going there any more. Place has gone down the pooper.


Yes, I saw that coming before I moved out of state... Down the street from CA was a really nice FS but they went out of business. The Fish Bowl was also nice back in the day in South Sac...

Edited by Acerone, 27 September 2008 - 08:33 AM.

29 Gallon BioCube
25 Pounds of Fiji Rocks
Mighty Mite RO/DI


Posted Image

#35
Seiryoku

Seiryoku

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 6,160 posts
  • Joined 01 May 2006
  • Sacramento, CA
O street and Aqua Workz are both very nice shops imo.

#36
acmefish

acmefish

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 61 posts
  • Joined 23 Jun 2008
  • Denver CO
I had seen a video on bottle training mandarins and its working for me. Here are some pics and a video I made. I think he was a little nervous that I was looking at him eating.

Attached Thumbnails

  • fone.jpg
  • ftwo.jpg


Posted Image

#37
SeeDemTails

SeeDemTails

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 5,424 posts
  • Joined 07 Oct 2006
  • Daytona Beach FL

Been there, done that.

I had one eating mysis no problem but I would need to feed him 10X per day to keep him fat.

If all I need to do is dump live pods in the nano to keep him fed that would be the ultimate setup.


Then you had a fish with something wrong with it. Mandarins can be sustained just fine on mysis....Mine is going on a year and growing.

Dumping pods in an hoping he finds them is it not worth the risk. They need to be fed to thrive.

#38
Khayman

Khayman

    Khayman

  • Members
  • 660 posts
  • Joined 30 Sep 2008
  • Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
To get one of these awsome fish you need to find a very responsible and specialised LFS. I will be getting my Mandarin in a few months or less. The LFS I deal with is owned and opperated by a very knowlegable faimly. They have a supplier that has both Tank Bred and Live cought Dragonets that he teached to accept frozen.

I have a red scooter right now that i think is fine. He is a juvinile only an inch or so long, he waits for the frozen every day or two. I was told that one of the problems with them eating frozen is they somtimes will stop eating copods altogether. This will mean if you want to go on a trip you are very limited on how long you can go away for.

Here is a picture
Scooter.jpg


I am such a proud pappa showing him off to everyone. I know he is not a Mandarine but he is so cool to watch.
Here is my Tanks thread
Posted Image

please stop by:
http://www.nano-reef...howtopic=172262

#39
Tbone675

Tbone675

    ┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘ ┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘

  • Members
  • 1,700 posts
  • Joined 13 Dec 2007
i just got a red dragonette also and i was nervous about putting him in QT with no LR or LS (no pods) but he took right to the mysis and blood worms....i just shut the pump off and dump some on him and he goes to town. lol

Current tank - Radion lit Solana 34

 

Future  tank - Deep Blue 60 Cube

 

 


#40
davidw

davidw

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 1 posts
  • Joined 09 Oct 2008
hi all

great thread.... my question... does an algae blenny eat pods or just algae? need to determine whether an algae blenny would compete for pods with a mandarin thus would make a good tankmate? please advise... I notice pods crowd around algae too... do pods consume algae also or just phyto?

#41
spazizz

spazizz

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 2,005 posts
  • Joined 18 Mar 2007
  • Elizabethtown, PA
Idk but for the food section, live brine shrimp could be included, preserved artic pods, and zooplankton. Mine eats all those to a certain point.

#42
HankB

HankB

    We are here to serve man.

  • Members
  • 1,297 posts
  • Joined 09 Mar 2008
  • Far Far west Chicago 'burbs
Previous version - which included more information - cached here:
http://74.125.95.104...orums/index.php

#43
dshnarw

dshnarw

    pithy statement here

  • Members
  • 6,529 posts
  • Joined 22 Jan 2007
  • Maryland/DC

Previous version - which included more information - cached here:
http://74.125.95.104...orums/index.php


lovez da interwebz :)


Posted Image
Daniel Hawkins Photography
Canon Digital Rebel XSi | Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS | Sigma 150mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM APO IF Macro


#44
jeremai

jeremai

    an island of reality in an ocean of diarrhea

  • Premium Members
  • 27,121 posts
  • Joined 08 Nov 2005
  • Las Vegas
First post reinstated.

Thanks, HankB.

pretty sure jer was referring to the length

 
reef information and articles
photography, writing, etc.
 

#45
dshnarw

dshnarw

    pithy statement here

  • Members
  • 6,529 posts
  • Joined 22 Jan 2007
  • Maryland/DC
just cause i can :)

lgreen's Mandarin FAQ



Posted Image


Copyright lgreen 2008

Note: In this guide, Mandarins will be referred to as Dragonets.

Table of Contents

I. Introduction
II. The Basic Truth About Dragonets
III. The Dragonet Family
IV. Dragonet Basics
V. The Case Against Keeping Dragonets In Nano Tanks
VI. Successfully keeping Dragonets in Nano Tanks
VII. Feeding/Food Rearing Technique
VIII. Bibliography

I. Introduction

The purpose of this thread is to help educate you first about the potential consequences of keeping such a delicate fish in a nano tank and second to help provide some info and advice should you choose to venture down this road.

As reefing in general is not an exact science the approach I have taken to organizing this information is to provide a framework that includes my knowledge of dragonets, but also to encourage others to share their experience and knowledge for the benefit of everyone.

II. The Basic Truth About Dragonets

Generally speaking, dragonets are not a suitable choice for nano tanks. Nor are they a suitable choice for any unexperienced reefer, regardless of your tank size. Although these fish are very attractive and often inexpensive, if you are inexperienced and/or do not provide the proper habitat for these fish, they will die. This is not to say it is impossible. With proper research, the right habitat, and some special care, mandarins can be kept alive in nano tanks. I cannot stress enough though that this is NOT a beginner fish.

The most basic explanation for why these fish are so difficult for many to keep is because their diet is very specific and therefore they can be very difficult to feed. A more detailed explanation for the case against keeping dragonets in nano tanks can be found later in this guide.

At the most basic level, successfully keeping a Dragonet in a nano-tank does not just involve providing the right food, but MOST IMPORTANTLY providing a continual source of that food. Methods for providing a continual source of food will be discussed below.

III. The Dragonet Family

Synchiropus splendidus

Common names: Green Mandarin Goby, Psychedelic Mandarin Goby


Posted Image


Synchiropus picturatus

Common names: Yellow Target Mandarin Goby, Spotted Mandarin Goby


Posted Image


Synchiropus ocellatus

Common names: Scooter Blenny, Scooter Dragonet





Synchiropus stellatus

Common names: Red Scooter Blenny, Sterry Scooter Blenny, Red Scooter Dragonet, Sterry Dragonet





IV. Dragonet Basics

First and foremost it is necessary to distinguish Dragonets as their own genius of fish. They are often incorrectly classified as gobies and blennies. Dragonets are most commonly found in the western pacific ocean ranging from southern Japan to northern Australia. They tend to hang out in shallower reefs and lagoons. Dragonets are bottom-dwelling carnivores that feed mostly on small micro and macro invertebrates such as copepods.

Copepod:





V. The Case Against Keeping Dragonets In Nano Tanks

So what we already know is that Dragonets are very difficult to feed since their primary source of nutrition is the copepod. Therefore the biggest challenge in keeping a Dragonet is not just having copepods, but rather having a continual supply of copepods. You may see copepods in your tank, however you must consider that a dragonet can wipe out a tanks worth of copepods in a short amount of time. Therefore, not only must you have copepods, but the population of copepods must be continually breeding. The key to keeping your copepod population continually breeding is to provide the correct habitat, which basically consists of hiding spots where the Dragonet can not get to them. This is what can prove to be the most difficult challenge in a nano tank. There is simply not enough space to provide the habitat (hiding spots) in a nano tank to support the continual copepod population that the dragonets need. So in general with out really going above and beyond in terms of providing the correct habitat for the copepods, your success at keeping a dragonet in a nano tank, or any tank for that matter, will be limited. As we will discuss below, successfully keeping a dragonet in a nano tank will involve providing some sort of supplemental habitat to your tank dedicated specifically to copepods.

I would also advise people be very cautious when reading success stories about dragonets. Many people buy a dragonet and if it lives for a week or even a month, they consider that a success story. This is very false. This is a fish that can look totally healthy and appear to be eating for 2-3 months and then just suddenly disappear. Now if someone tells you that they have successfully kept a dragonet in their nano for 3-6+ months, I would consider their experiences/techniques worth discussing.

VI. Successfully keeping Dragonets in Nano Tanks

Coming Soon!

This section will explain all the elements that must be taken in consideration to successfully keep a mandarin. Topics will include tank size, tank mates, pairing, and what questions to ask/how to find a healthy specimen. This section also may feature links to success stories.

VII. Feeding/Food Rearing Technique

Coming Soon!

Frozen Food

Live Copepods

Refugiums

Rubble/Crypitc Zones

VIII. Bibliography

Coming Soon!



Posted Image
Daniel Hawkins Photography
Canon Digital Rebel XSi | Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS | Sigma 150mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM APO IF Macro


#46
lgreen

lgreen

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 16,412 posts
  • Joined 17 Mar 2004
  • Idaho
Restored to original form!

#47
ddr_phish

ddr_phish

    dead stars, still burn

  • Members
  • 2,179 posts
  • Joined 26 May 2008
  • Houston, Texas

Restored to original form!

Now how about yall post an in depth guide on how to train them to eat mysis? Pretty please ;)

Edited by ddr_phish, 22 December 2008 - 07:15 AM.

My 34 Gallon Half-Moon Reef

Revolution, let your mind flow free, peace and freedom and the love community.


#48
cdelicath

cdelicath

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 2,129 posts
  • Joined 13 Nov 2007
  • Illinois
I second that i can't get mine to even look at frozen

#49
BLoCkCliMbeR

BLoCkCliMbeR

    the price of great bacon is eternal vigilance

  • Members
  • 3,944 posts
  • Joined 30 Oct 2006
  • closer to the sun

Has anyone tried breeding pods?

It seems pretty simple to me. Setup a 10g tank with lots of phyto to keep the pods well fed with an air pump to keep the water oxygenated and they will multiply like crazy!

Scoop up a bunch of pods into the nano every few days to keep the mandarin nice and fat.

-pod farm-

10 gal tank---free, i had 2-3 of em lyin round the yard
air pump(small is ok)----$0.00 plus tax
old school filter box(or sponge filter)--less than $5.00
lots and lots of rubble.....can use a mix of live and dry rock busted up...what evers cheaper..less than $5.00
less than 1' of mix media substrate.....a mix or any will do...mine was crushed coral/aragonite
some live rock if you need it for "looks"
clear (glass/acrylic) lid to keep salt creep down
most importantly.......macro algea......to keep nitrates and stuff in check....
! this tank has to be seeded(provided w/ a culture) in some way!

as far as water, i never threw out my old water change water out of fear of one day being out of water for some freak reason....yup i used old stagnant tank water..yummy pod and macro food!

i started the tank as a holding area for cheato/macro before i took it to the store.
flow should be almost nil.....the larva dont handle being pummeled by a good pump....

i had peppermint shrimp and emerald crabs spawning in this tank...thats how i know pumps are no good for growing plankton....chops em up! i noticed a change in numbers when i tried a power head...

i had more success in growing pods with just air.....
water parameters?...just make sure its salt water....old tank water works great
temp???.....they can survive temps of 85+ to colder....but keep it 80ish to be safe....

as far as collecting pods.....possible to bait them into going into a water bottle...other than that i dont know....at the time i had the tank,i had no real reason to harvest them...

light.....free, i used a very sunny window....but i also tried GE REVEAL halogen bulbs, full spectrum of course, which works find but you might get hair algea...but thats not a problem...this is a pod farm not a display...

there are other ways of doing the whold pod farm thing, but i worked w/ what i had at the time.....

the "green water" method might yeld better populations than this, but i liked watching this tank....i had peppermints and emerld crabs spawning in it...it was very low maitenince and had an anus full of pods...

but thats just my pod farming experience....

Attached Thumbnails

  • 12_30_07_2354.jpg


#50
catchnrelease

catchnrelease

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 4 posts
  • Joined 26 Dec 2008
I have a Mandarin in a 35L tank, along with a few other fish. I'm new to this and may have dove into the deep end accidently. I don't think there's enough live rock to sustain a population of Copepods, but that's all done now, more research should've been done blah blah blah, no point whining, I want to make things better.

Which leads to me asking whether you guys have had any success with Mandarins and feeding them Daphnia. When we got the fish the guy told us he had successfully turned a small Mandarin into a Daphnia eater. We bought a different one (ordered in) and now it's going everywhere in the tank looking for food, which worries me. Is there such a thing as too much live rock? Like I said, I'm kinda new to this marine business, all my previous tanks were freshwater and tropicals.