Target Mandarin Advice

[moonjellii]

So I just picked up a target mandarin from the LFS yesterday and I was told that they eat mostly pods and mysis shrimp. I have a jbj 12gal and the only other fish I have is a TR Perc. I had a huge population of pods before the perc was introduced and there's still a decent amount of pods in there right now but I really don't know how long that's going to last considering my tank isn't all that big. I feed mysis maybe once every other day or so. So, what I was wondering is, will the Target Mandarin be okay with mostly mysis or should I start breeding pods?

 

(in the tank I also have an arrow crab, some zoos, two frogspawn, mushrooms, a duncan colony, and various snails and hermits.)

 

Thanks!

[maverick]

Prepare for mandarin hate!

[Doopdeedo]

Prepare for mandarin hate!

took the words out of my mouth. be prepared for people to tell you to take it back to the LFS.

[Rehype]

So I just picked up a target mandarin from the LFS yesterday and I was told that they eat mostly pods and mysis shrimp. I have a jbj 12gal and the only other fish I have is a TR Perc. I had a huge population of pods before the perc was introduced and there's still a decent amount of pods in there right now but I really don't know how long that's going to last considering my tank isn't all that big. I feed mysis maybe once every other day or so. So, what I was wondering is, will the Target Mandarin be okay with mostly mysis or should I start breeding pods?

 

(in the tank I also have an arrow crab, some zoos, two frogspawn, mushrooms, a duncan colony, and various snails and hermits.)

 

Thanks!

 

I have a target mandarin as well and you really need to have a refugium so that there is always a steady population of breeding pods. The ones in your main display are going to run out quite quickly. You can however breed pods. I found this article to be really helpful.

[Phixion]

I honestly would. If I'm not mistaken, 12g is too small, and they need a near endless supply of pods. Waiting for the experts to chime in though.

[moonjellii]

I already know what most people are going to say, lol "take it back" but honestly, I'd like to give it a shot and try to keep him. I was thinking I should probably have a small fuge and breed them but I've yet to figure out how to connect that to my tank. On the other hand, if I'm having trouble taking care of him, my boyfriend has a 40 breeder I can move him to. then i can just visit him. In terms of breeding pods though, what would you guys suggest? just a jar? a fuge? if i pick the fuge option should i connect the fuge to the tank via tubing and what not or should I just have the fuge separate and scoop out some pods when I need to feed? I'd appreciate it if you guys could just shoot some ideas around and help me out!

 

Thanks Rehype for the link, i'll take a look!

[SbCaes]

I honestly would. If I'm not mistaken, 12g is too small, and they need a near endless supply of pods. Waiting for the experts to chime in though.

+1 but there is and always are exceptions, it can be done in a nano, as you mentioned it does eat mysis. so you might have a bit of luck but do breed the pods and introduce them wkly if not more often.

 

hob fuge is a good idea for that tank. or you could always upgrade. lol

[Phixion]

Fuge for sure!! I used to have TONS of pods in my tank, but the supply has dwindled significantly... I'm sure because of my fish.

 

There's also the adding brine shrimp weekly route also.

[moonjellii]

a HOB fuge would be awesome although that might be a problem since i have the JBJ 12gal. Closed top :/ Sigh lol I really wish I had the money to upgrade. I read that article about breeding pods. Perhaps I'll get a small glass tank and create a sort of fuge and hook it up to the tank some how. anyone have a small glass tank they don't want? :-D

[Rehype]

a HOB fuge would be awesome although that might be a problem since i have the JBJ 12gal. Closed top :/ Sigh lol I really wish I had the money to upgrade. I read that article about breeding pods. Perhaps I'll get a small glass tank and create a sort of fuge and hook it up to the tank some how. anyone have a small glass tank they don't want? :-D

 

 

 

It doesnt have to be that large of a tank. You could do the same thing in a small fish bowl. The key is to make sure you have a small pump to provide oxygen,keep them fed and keep up with small water changes.Once you have a large population just simply scoop out some and add it to the display. It works like a charm.

[moonjellii]

Here are some pictures of the little guy

 

 

Here are some pictures of my tank after a long break. (I had massive die off a few months ago and am now starting to build up my reef again)

 

And here is my pretty Duncan and silly clown

[seahorsedreams]

He's already starved. Half the battle of keeping these critters is getting a healthy specimen. So, your difficult task just got harder. If you don't have a pod culture up and running already you also increased your chances of failure. It takes awhile to sustainable cultures going and your guy is getting skinnier by the minute. When you say he is eating mysis do you mean live or frozen?

[moonjellii]

according to the LFS he can eat frozen mysis shrimp. However, if anyone has heard differently, let me know. I have quite a large pod population as of right now but I know that will start to dwindle soon. I plan on setting up a fuge and start breeding pods this weekend. If he isn't looking too hot in a day or two I'll probably move him to a bigger system with more pods until I can get my pod culture up and running. Any other advice on these little critters that you guys can share? I would really appreciate it!

[seahorsedreams]

I had mine for 7 years and he ate frozen but frozen isn't enough. They really do need the constant pod population for their grazing behaviours. If this is something you really want to try, is their any chance of trading him in for a non-emanciated one? It would increase your odds of success if he had some fat to fall back on while making sure he eats enough frozen and gets enough pods. The last 3 months mine was alive he went off frozen and would eat only pods. But I have 12 tanks to fall back on to get pods out of if need be.

[Dragonfire00]

according to the LFS he can eat frozen mysis shrimp. However, if anyone has heard differently, let me know. I have quite a large pod population as of right now but I know that will start to dwindle soon. I plan on setting up a fuge and start breeding pods this weekend. If he isn't looking too hot in a day or two I'll probably move him to a bigger system with more pods until I can get my pod culture up and running. Any other advice on these little critters that you guys can share? I would really appreciate it!

 

ya his sides are indented, he is starving. try to spot feed him some mysis. It's too late now, but when he told you he ate mysis he should have showed you. If there isn't a very large pod population and he won't eat mysis, move him to the breeder or return him to the LFS.

 

EDIT: for a great site for info.

 

http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_care.html

[moonjellii]

seahorse, when you had your mandarin how did you make sure he had a constant population of pods? did you keep a fuge or did you i guess for lack of a better term breed them and just introduce the pods periodically whenever you had to feed? what did you find worked best?

[moonjellii]

bumppity

[moonjellii]

update, he's eating the mysis. Even so, I don't think it's enough to just feed him frozen mysis. How long do you think I can keep target feeding him with mysis before he goes nutso for more pods? How long do you guys think it will take to get a decent pod population up and running in a fuge?

[Phixion]

Look up the NC12g fuge mod. Aquapods had them, so I'm sure people have done them with NC's as well. It's worth a try, and only cost as much as whatever light you use for it.

[Dragonfire00]

http://joshday.com/mandaringoby.htm

 

half way down the page and some links later he tells you how to breed pods. Apparently the best way, just searching, is to buy a bottle of pods. I think they go for around $20 and you just pour them in your fuge or tank.

they will need somewhere to hide from fish to multiply, rockpile would be to small for a 12g, but cheato works well.

[seahorsedreams]

I have a lot of fuges and I threw some of them on the reef when he went off his frozen. At one point we took him out because he depleting the pod population in the 60 gallon rapidly and was getting SKINNY. We had to rotate him between a couple of tanks before he died. Poor guy was old and was blind in one eye. You can make a little internal fuge by piling up some LR rubble... pods will grow protected amongst the rock.

[mwp]

FWIW, I'll hop on board the "pro-mandarin" bandwagon, if there is one, and wish you tons of luck. I currently keep a pair of Synchiropus splendidus and a breeding pair of Synchiropus stellatus (yes, 4 dragonettes) in a 24 gallon cube. I'd call that S. splendidus a breeding pair but the last breeding male just jumped and the replacement male is currently in a net breeding undergoing "feed training".

 

I'll post this for general info behind how I've trained several mandarins onto frozen - by no means consider a mandarin unless you're dedicated to meeting it's needs AND having all the available resources. That said, here's the short story on training Synchiropus onto frozen foods. Isolate them in a small breeder net (no competition for food)...starting the fish onto enriched live adult brine, weaning onto enriched frozen adult brine, then adding in mysis, and only once everything is accepted with GUSTO, and I mean GUSTO like it'll pick it out of the water column in the basket, only then would I consider releasing it into the tank at large. And I feed my tanks 3-5 times per day, most of my long-term captive Dragonettes eat pellet food. Look up Malev's Mandarin Diner if feeding competition ever becomes a problem. Oh, and with all that heavy feeding, yes, you'll need to do weekly water changes I soak all my frozen foods with enrichments, rotating between Selcon (HUFA supplementation) and Reef Plus (Vitamin Supplementation). I also feed a wide variety of enriched brines (i.e. Omega-3 Enriched, Spirulina Enriched, Multi-Vitamin Bio Encapsulated etc). I've had really good luck with Dragonettes taking Hikari Mysis. When it comes to pellets, the first one they typically accept is Formula 1 in the small pellet. Eventually they'll branch out onto Spectrum, Formula II, and possibly others, but that takes a LONG time on Mandarins. I've not kept Scooters, but Red Scooters seem to be very willing to accept just about any food offered in short order...they just can't be outcompeted.

 

FWIW, I love Reed's Tiggerpods, but let me also be blunt in saying that an entire bottle of tiggerpods is probably an hour's worth of feeding for a Mandarin. Even if you set up dedicated cultures in gallon milk jugs and feed them live phyto, you're still not going to sustain your mandarin through pods alone. I believe success with Dragonettes REQUIRES the dedication to train them onto frozen / prepared foods, and to have the backup of live adult brine which you can again enrich with selcon and phytoplankton if you have to!

 

Think of Mandarins the way you think of Seahorses, and the possiblities open up dramatically. In fact, I think Mandarins are some of the best companions for Searhorses (provided they share temperature ranges!)

 

FWIW,

 

Matt

[BKtomodachi]

Honestly, I think feeding a mandarin primarily frozen mysis is like asking you to eat primarily applesauce.

 

Mysis cannot reproduce the complexity, density, fiber, nutritional value, or specific levels of (protein, ion, etc) intake. I have seen them not even at full weight in a 55G with pleny of rock before.

[mwp]

Honestly, I think feeding a mandarin primarily frozen mysis is like asking you to eat primarily applesauce.

 

Mysis cannot reproduce the complexity, density, fiber, nutritional value, or specific levels of (protein, ion, etc) intake. I have seen them not even at full weight in a 55G with pleny of rock before.

 

Well, you're entirely entitled to that opinion, but are you breeding Synchiropus? How many are you currently keeping? I have not lost a single Synchiropus to starvation. It CAN be done. I'm not saying that everyone should rush out and do it, but I am encouraging a lot of pre-research and well thought out plans, combined with backup plans, and the dedication to see things through and not rush them.

 

And I should point out, that I never said to feed the mandarins only mysis (although there are plenty of captive reared seahorses that prove Mysis and enrichments are all you need). Mysis is the next "addition" the frozen food regime after the fish are willing to take various types of enriched frozen brine. After mysis, pellets and gels go into the mix...

 

The biggest tanks in my house are 24 gallon JBJ cubes. I'll back up my post with the proof that it can be done, not that everyone should...

 

You don't get these pictures unless the fish are happy, healthy, and in spawning condition:

 

Synchiropus stellatus spawning rise:

 

Synchiropus splendidus spawning rise:

I have seen them not even at full weight in a 55G with pleny of rock before.

Look at the female's belly below and I'll simply say "Now you've seen a full weight mandarin in a 24 gallon!"

 

Red Scooter Blennies spawning in the 24 gallon cube (animated gif below, + link to video of the same on YouTube)

 

Video of my first pair of S. splendidus spawning (sorry, it's quicktime, never posted it to Youtube)

http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanore...darin_SPAWN.MOV

 

Newly hatched Synchiropus sp. at left, Centropyge argi at right (both my S. splendidus and S. stellatus spawned the night the eggs were collected, so I don't know which species these are, hence listed as Synchiropus sp).

 

Newly hatched Synchiropus sp. at top, Centropyge argi at bottom.

 

3.5 day old Synchiropus stellatus

 

5.5 day old Synchiropus splendidus (right) and 8 day old Apogon leptacanthus (left)

 

FWIW,

 

Matt

[Dragonfire00]

FWIW, I'll hop on board the "pro-mandarin" bandwagon, if there is one, and wish you tons of luck. I currently keep a pair of Synchiropus splendidus and a breeding pair of Synchiropus stellatus (yes, 4 dragonettes) in a 24 gallon cube. I'd call that S. splendidus a breeding pair but the last breeding male just jumped and the replacement male is currently in a net breeding undergoing "feed training".

 

I'll post this for general info behind how I've trained several mandarins onto frozen - by no means consider a mandarin unless you're dedicated to meeting it's needs AND having all the available resources. That said, here's the short story on training Synchiropus onto frozen foods. Isolate them in a small breeder net (no competition for food)...starting the fish onto enriched live adult brine, weaning onto enriched frozen adult brine, then adding in mysis, and only once everything is accepted with GUSTO, and I mean GUSTO like it'll pick it out of the water column in the basket, only then would I consider releasing it into the tank at large. And I feed my tanks 3-5 times per day, most of my long-term captive Dragonettes eat pellet food. Look up Malev's Mandarin Diner if feeding competition ever becomes a problem. Oh, and with all that heavy feeding, yes, you'll need to do weekly water changes I soak all my frozen foods with enrichments, rotating between Selcon (HUFA supplementation) and Reef Plus (Vitamin Supplementation). I also feed a wide variety of enriched brines (i.e. Omega-3 Enriched, Spirulina Enriched, Multi-Vitamin Bio Encapsulated etc). I've had really good luck with Dragonettes taking Hikari Mysis. When it comes to pellets, the first one they typically accept is Formula 1 in the small pellet. Eventually they'll branch out onto Spectrum, Formula II, and possibly others, but that takes a LONG time on Mandarins. I've not kept Scooters, but Red Scooters seem to be very willing to accept just about any food offered in short order...they just can't be outcompeted.

 

FWIW, I love Reed's Tiggerpods, but let me also be blunt in saying that an entire bottle of tiggerpods is probably an hour's worth of feeding for a Mandarin. Even if you set up dedicated cultures in gallon milk jugs and feed them live phyto, you're still not going to sustain your mandarin through pods alone. I believe success with Dragonettes REQUIRES the dedication to train them onto frozen / prepared foods, and to have the backup of live adult brine which you can again enrich with selcon and phytoplankton if you have to!

 

Think of Mandarins the way you think of Seahorses, and the possiblities open up dramatically. In fact, I think Mandarins are some of the best companions for Searhorses (provided they share temperature ranges!)

 

FWIW,

 

Matt

 

Wow, I just bookmarked this thread, this is the quickest most valuable source for the caring for the two dragonettes I have been researching.

 

my original thread: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...=137624&hl=

 

Sense then i have read allot of info on them, but yours seems the most valuable and care related. Bravo sir