Jump to content


Photo

the_zoa_fungus_cure_project


  • Please log in to reply
60 replies to this topic

#26
Blacktone

Blacktone

    Ah Mercury, the sweetest of the transition metals.

  • Members
  • 712 posts
  • Joined 11 Nov 2006
  • Crestview FL Panhandle

I must have missed it but, how do we attain the prescription meds your using? I remember the document said it was a human prescription med. Would there a version of it we can get from the vet?

Edited by Blacktone, 12 August 2007 - 12:05 AM.


#27
er1c_the_reefer

er1c_the_reefer

    murse in training

  • Members
  • 4,152 posts
  • Joined 03 Nov 2005
  • 92708
i got mine as a free sample from my gp; he looked at me funny when i asked for it, but i explained to him what i was using it for and he was glad to help out and gave me a few sample packs.

i'm not sure if vets can prescribe it or not, since they might be limited to what they can write for. i know some vets can do prescribe human medications for dogs and cats (e.g. atenolol for the heart). i don't think this is a controlled medication, so it wouldn't hurt to ask.

looking at the price ($12/capsule for the generic which lasts 20 days), however, i wouldn't recommend anyone try it until i'm for sure that it works, which means more testing.

additionally, i just googled it and found that it comes in liquid. that would've helped a lot instead of having to crush granules. too bad its well over $100 for the bottle.

Edited by er1c_the_reefer, 12 August 2007 - 12:36 AM.

are we done yet?


i hate people too. that's why i'm going into nursing.


#28
Blacktone

Blacktone

    Ah Mercury, the sweetest of the transition metals.

  • Members
  • 712 posts
  • Joined 11 Nov 2006
  • Crestview FL Panhandle
>>>>>>>>>>>>

Edited by Blacktone, 17 August 2007 - 01:03 PM.


#29
Blacktone

Blacktone

    Ah Mercury, the sweetest of the transition metals.

  • Members
  • 712 posts
  • Joined 11 Nov 2006
  • Crestview FL Panhandle
I'm in the process of trying to figure out what to do. I ran across this article while researching. Are you guys telling me Furan-2 treatment doesn't work?

http://www.zoaid.com/articles004.php
http://www.marinedep...al~vendor~.html

I've got a QT tank I'm in the process of setting up but wanted to hear what you guys thought of this treatment.

Edited by Blacktone, 17 August 2007 - 08:41 AM.


#30
SeeDemTails

SeeDemTails

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 5,424 posts
  • Joined 07 Oct 2006
  • Daytona Beach FL
I have lost a ton of zoas in the past few months. Lost so many in one tank it crashed it, and im just now starting to recover, didnt loose any fish but most of the corals are a lose.

I have saved a few colonies with furan 2 dips, but whos to say they didnt save themselves?

None of us really know what is causing this, we are all guessing.

I wish a larger company with some $$$ would step up, do some research. and find out what is causing this and how to cure it. Shots in the dark with a little success here and there and people contradicting what works and what doesnt because so many people are trying different things and all have had some success.

We need to know what is really going on, not keep guessing.

Good job on trying new stuff though!

#31
er1c_the_reefer

er1c_the_reefer

    murse in training

  • Members
  • 4,152 posts
  • Joined 03 Nov 2005
  • 92708
speculation so far is that zoa pox, which furan is used for, is bacterial in nature. pox actually do remind me of small bacterial colonies growing on top of nutrient agar gel in the lab. pox are probably bacteria growing under the mucus layer of the coral or maybe in the coral itself. bacteria tend to have a higher metabolism and reproductive rate than fungi, and therefore compete with fungi for space. when you kill off the bacteria (and keep in mind most bacteria are good) living on corals by dipping, it gives fungi a chance to take over (i made an analogy to yeast infections earlier). fungal infections are harder to cure than bacterial infections.

my recommendation is to look long and hard at your zoas before deciding treatment as furan so far seems like a double edge sword. if its pox, furan. if not, then don't.
are we done yet?


i hate people too. that's why i'm going into nursing.


#32
SeeDemTails

SeeDemTails

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 5,424 posts
  • Joined 07 Oct 2006
  • Daytona Beach FL
I have been doing seachem reef dip for fungus without any results.

There is no doubt that furan cures pox, or atleast slows it.

I have also taken frags with the so called "fungus", both the red and black types, and put them in other tanks and watched the fungus go away and the zoas open within a couple days.

#33
epicfish

epicfish

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 3,829 posts
  • Joined 10 Sep 2006
  • Mexico, TX
....what?? $12 each?

Itraconazole? My patients get 180 capsules for approximately $350-375, so $2/pill. Crushing up itraconzaole puts it in a "suspension" of sorts. It doesn't mean it's actually dissolved all the way. Reef tanks are usually kept at a higher pH while itraconazole requires an acidic pH to become readily absorbed by tissues. That's why they recommend you to take it with food. Food -> stomach acid -> lower pH -> increased absorption.

You might want to try Fluconazole. Higher bio-availability, easily dissolved, and easier absorption in the human body....which might lead to higher absorption through the membranes covering zoas.

#34
roxy25

roxy25

    foxy reefer

  • Members
  • 1,567 posts
  • Joined 13 Feb 2004
  • Los Angeles, CA
I don't have this problem on my zoas but I have some kind of fungus on my cloves. I seems similar to what is shown in the pics.

What do you suggest I try? I don't want my prized cloves dying :(

I will not be able to get prescription meds , I know my doctor will not give them to me lol.
I know you can get some meds at these little stores by my house but I am not sure..
doggeekz

#35
er1c_the_reefer

er1c_the_reefer

    murse in training

  • Members
  • 4,152 posts
  • Joined 03 Nov 2005
  • 92708
tails, i think red fungus is cyano, because i had that too, but it went away when i used red slime remover. i have zoas/palys colonies covered in black fungus, and they don't die or anything. i do notice that they have a tougher time closing in response to being touched and usually start dying off later on when stressed. usually this means i can't frag them or else none of the frags make it.

epic, where are your patients getting the pills? i got quoted $12 cash price for generics from the local pharmacy. no insurance coverage, of course. i figured the on the best absorption at pH 2.0, but thought that it doesn't necessarily have to be absorbed into zoas if fungi were growing on the outer layers of polyps, so i thought i would give it a shot anyways because my doctor said fluconazole wasn't recommended for aspergillus.

here's 08.19.07

Posted Image

i don't know if it was the meds or the conditions of the qt tank, but i think its a complete recovery.
are we done yet?


i hate people too. that's why i'm going into nursing.


#36
mascencerro

mascencerro

    wannabe Mantis Cult Member

  • Members
  • 527 posts
  • Joined 25 Jun 2006
  • North Central Oklahoma
My frag just melted away. Of course, I think mine was a goner anyway because they had all closed up and been covered for about a week. I was trying the topical cream method.

If I have another get an infection and actually looks like it might stand a chance, I'll try again, but (knock on wood) I don't appear to have any infected subjects at the moment.


.edit.
I did however notice, before they really started to melt, a couple days after treatment the fungus started to flake off and the zoas were exposed. I think they had been attacked on the inside though, because they just melted.

Edited by mascencerro, 19 August 2007 - 05:48 PM.


#37
er1c_the_reefer

er1c_the_reefer

    murse in training

  • Members
  • 4,152 posts
  • Joined 03 Nov 2005
  • 92708
new specimen on 08.11.07
Posted Image

this one has brown fungus instead of black
are we done yet?


i hate people too. that's why i'm going into nursing.


#38
JG

JG

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 18,965 posts
  • Joined 10 Oct 2006
  • LI, NY
Awesome research!

Furan 2 works on zoo pox, I did it on 2 small colonies and they seem to be recovering. The thing that ####es me off is that if the pox is in the tank then I will probably need to re-dip them eventually.

Has anyone had a colony that recovered only to get re-infected down the road?


Also since your using human medications less personal contamination. Furan-2 is labeled as highly carcinogenic, makes me wonder if it is worth using it...

RIP

 

<3 @ JG


#39
Blacktone

Blacktone

    Ah Mercury, the sweetest of the transition metals.

  • Members
  • 712 posts
  • Joined 11 Nov 2006
  • Crestview FL Panhandle

Furan-2 is labeled as highly carcinogenic, makes me wonder if it is worth using it...


So is Kalkwasser, I use that stuff every day in the tank. These fish live in a different environment than we do. I mean what happens if you drink salt water, I'm sure it's more than corrected(caustic) to us. Just a different biological system.

Edited by Blacktone, 23 September 2007 - 08:59 PM.


#40
er1c_the_reefer

er1c_the_reefer

    murse in training

  • Members
  • 4,152 posts
  • Joined 03 Nov 2005
  • 92708
i don't think kalkwasser is carcinogenic. caustic is the word.
are we done yet?


i hate people too. that's why i'm going into nursing.


#41
er1c_the_reefer

er1c_the_reefer

    murse in training

  • Members
  • 4,152 posts
  • Joined 03 Nov 2005
  • 92708
sorry i haven't updated in a while guys. the cost of doing this is a little bit prohibitive at the moment. i gotta look into find a cheaper source for meds, maybe hop the border down south to a pharmacia in TJ or something. :lol:

anyways, i'm going to try something new: UV and ozone. my friend says he runs ozone and UV on one of his tank where as his mom's tank doesn't. his mom's tank constantly has issues with fungus but he's never noticed it in his tank. it might just be a pure fluke of luck, but its worth a shot.
are we done yet?


i hate people too. that's why i'm going into nursing.


#42
Wuhssie

Wuhssie

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 11 posts
  • Joined 15 Oct 2006
great write up er1c.

#43
ab420

ab420

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 107 posts
  • Joined 02 Oct 2006
Wow! Great stuff you're doing here, very interesting, and very helpful to the hobby as a whole! Thanks!

#44
afqu

afqu

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 1 posts
  • Joined 06 Nov 2007
er1c and group,

Great site and info. er1c, your article was great. Just some additional info. .....I am an exotic parrot breeder of African Grey parrots. African species are prone to asper (aspergillosis). I am quite familiar with the drugs being used for treatment, and I even have a 30ML bottle of the liquid Sporanox from 2000, expired of course. I assure you a vet can write a script and it is not very expensive. Naturally when using it for birds it is probably in a "flavored" solution.

I was recently at Moffit research clinic with a niece being screened for a bone marrow transplant. The team there said asper is a great concern and I asked what is the drug of choice now for treating asper. They now use VFEND......voriconazole. they said it is a much better drug than itraconazole. I guess this is fairly recent, since it was just lectured about at the national avian vet conference.

I have a small frag, from a friend, of pink zoas that developed this "coating" a few days after I received them. I have searched for days trying to find info that made sense.......I think I found it.....thanks a bunch! I tried the peroxide dip a few days ago, and they were all open the next day, but yesterday and today they are worse and none, it appears, can open now. I am sure they broke with it due to stress from fragging and moving to a new environment all in one day.

I think I may shot-gun my little zoas, with the expired meds, since I doubt they will live anyway. If they do, they may be cherry flavored, pink zoas.

With the birds it is not contagious, even with direct contact, so I am hoping it works the same in the reef tank. I have only been doing a reef since June. I am new to reefs, but had fish only back in the late 70s and early 80s. WOW! have things changed since then. Once again, great site and info-thanks.
Jean

#45
tangboy

tangboy

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 268 posts
  • Joined 05 Oct 2007
  • Knoxville, TN
I too am new to the whole zoa thing and have had a couple frags waste away on me. Of course that was shortly after my 8g BC at school was set up. I have had one or two polyps waste away on me on a few frags recently but nothing big that affected the entire frag. I will keep my eyes open for some signs of what is causing the "wasting-away" and if it starts to happen go and have the wife pick me up some meds. She is a nurse almost done with her FNP :)
The Evolution of MY 40g Breeder!

Posted Image

#46
paOol

paOol

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 362 posts
  • Joined 12 Oct 2007

new specimen on 08.11.07
Posted Image

this one has brown fungus instead of black



can we get an update on this ?
thats what mine look like O_o

#47
MiMiC

MiMiC

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 385 posts
  • Joined 17 Dec 2007
Mine look like that too, i did a 10 min dip of lugols solution says to add 40 drops to 1 gallon of tank water so i did a dip with some ro/di water, see if it works.

#48
JG

JG

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 18,965 posts
  • Joined 10 Oct 2006
  • LI, NY
Just out of curiosity has anyone been able to identify which types of zoas are affected more. I am still on the inexperienced side but I noticed that I first got zoa pox treated them w/ furan2 and different zoas responded differently.

(I got a bunch from fraggle reef so I am using their names)
Dragon Eyes got hit really hard
Eagle Eyes Hit hard
Orange Bam Bams - slightly hit but recovered after treatment, recently got it again. It doesn't spread as fast as the ones above.
Alien Eyes - not affected
Blue Organisms - Not Affected
Plain green ones from LFS - not affected.

RIP

 

<3 @ JG


#49
greeneyes

greeneyes

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 1,659 posts
  • Joined 29 Mar 2007
  • Illinois
Was wondering if you have any new updates or if it wnet by the way side.

#50
SbCaes

SbCaes

    Meow...Macroalgae?

  • Members
  • 2,011 posts
  • Joined 20 Apr 2007
  • Santa Barbara
has anyone tried to dose with Vitamin C? i heard that the zoa fungus/pox was a sideffect of a weak immune system in the coral and could be remedied with vitaminc and possibly a vit b. ???