Two Part Tidal Tank

[11GTCS]

Hey so I was thinking about an idea to combine my pico and 8 gal into one tank. And then I thought it would be cool to have the tanks like some have with a shallow tidal sort of section with a dropoff into a coral section (sort of like the edge of a continental shelf concept. Then my mind went a step further and said "why not make the tidal section actually have tides?" Since my dorm only allows 10 gallons (I would probably push for around 14 gallons and have a hidden sump), the whole thing would be pretty small. I'd say overall tank dimensions would be 30x15 for the footprint, with a 15x15x5 tidal section (about 4.9 gal) and a 15x15x10 reef section (about 9.74 gal). I would have a sump capable of holding the extra water from the tidal section when it's drained, and probably would hold an extra 5 gallons of water when at high tide (so a total tank volume of around 20 gallons). I might try and bring that down to 15 but that's insubstantial at this point. I'd have a small pump pumping water to keep rocks moist, and have it sculpted to have a central tide pool at low tide. I'd keep mostly inverts and some tidal corals like zoas in the tidal section, and some misc coral and my clown and cleaner in the reef section.

 

What does everyone think about this idea?

[boxboy]

This idea sounds very cool to me!! Go for it..

[11GTCS]

Does anyone have an experience/tips with something roughly similar? I know its a very different design but I figure someone must have some experience with variable depth tanks ect...

 

This idea sounds very cool to me!! Go for it..

 

Thanks! I'm contacting PiCo for the build

[malawian]

im a bit confused on the design, without being able to picture it I dont think I can help much. ever tried sketchup? if not maybe just try it in paint, a simple drawing should suffice.

[11GTCS]

Here is a photo of what I have in mind.

 

[boxboy]

Its a pico/nano sized drop off tank. with waives..

[Chrisl1976]

College dorm room and the smell of exposed wet live rock. I hope you have a understanding room mate.

 

Very interesting idea though!!!!! Look forward to seeing it come to life.

[11GTCS]

College dorm room and the smell of exposed wet live rock. I hope you have a understanding room mate.

 

Very interesting idea though!!!!! Look forward to seeing it come to life.

 

Haha I plan to have a single next fall which is the only reason why I'd do it. and I go to college on the coast so the smell of the salt marshes I think is far worse I can't wait either!

 

Its a pico/nano sized drop off tank. with waives..

 

Well and a variable tank level... haha

[smiz]

I have actually been thinking of doing something very similar but instead of having the top of the two tanks flush id have the higher tank have a small square cut out of the glass to create a small waterfall into my lower tank. Ill be following you close to see how you tackle this project.

[Chrisl1976]

how do you plan to automatically drain the tank at low tide? powered valves?

[11GTCS]

I have actually been thinking of doing something very similar but instead of having the top of the two tanks flush id have the higher tank have a small square cut out of the glass to create a small waterfall into my lower tank. Ill be following you close to see how you tackle this project.

 

Thanks! I'm pretty nervous because it will tank some.... clever packaging to not require solenoid valves and stuff that I'd rather not have to spend money on.

 

how do you plan to automatically drain the tank at low tide? powered valves?

 

Right now yeah I'd probably have a second drain with a solenoid valve that would slowly (over course of hours) drain tank and then a smaller second return pump (same return feed though) pump water back in. I actually could probably just use the planned trickle flow to keep rocks moist as a refill flow.

[duoc9119]

Not quite following along with the details but here's my crack at an idea for high tide and low tide.

 

From your picture: Water comes from the sump to the reef section, and flows over to the tidal section and drains back to the sump at a low level set by the drain (hidden by a herbie style). Then you can have an extra pump in the sump that runs for a few hours a day that will pump more water from the sump to the reef section.

 

That would be your high tides, as the extra water enters the display, the water level will rise in the tidal section and drain into a second higher set drain (another herbie style). Then the pump will turn off when high tide is over and the water goes back to the original level.

 

I think that is easy enough, just need to have a sump large enough to hold all that water and keep the pumps from sucking bubbles or running dry. No need for all sorts of valves and such, just need two gate valves for the herbie drains

[11GTCS]

Not quite following along with the details but here's my crack at an idea for high tide and low tide.

 

From your picture: Water comes from the sump to the reef section, and flows over to the tidal section and drains back to the sump at a low level set by the drain (hidden by a herbie style). Then you can have an extra pump in the sump that runs for a few hours a day that will pump more water from the sump to the reef section.

 

That would be your high tides, as the extra water enters the display, the water level will rise in the tidal section and drain into a second higher set drain (another herbie style). Then the pump will turn off when high tide is over and the water goes back to the original level.

 

I think that is easy enough, just need to have a sump large enough to hold all that water and keep the pumps from sucking bubbles or running dry. No need for all sorts of valves and such, just need two gate valves for the herbie drains

 

I want to have independent control of the sump flow in each part of the aquarium, so I'd likely have a sump drain and return in each tank. That's why I'd need a valve in the other tank so that I could lower the water (because I don't want to raise the water for high tide per say I'd want it to lower and like semi drain the top section.

 

Edit: After re-reading your section a couple of times it makes more sense. Yes I could definitely do that but I'd need to have a really (relatively) strong aux powerhead in the reef section then to simulate waves.

[11GTCS]

Ok here is an updated drawing with side view tank plumbing and flow diagram. I decided to try using duoc9119's plumbing idea.

 

 

 

 

What does everyone think?

[Onebaldman]

I think you could make this work with only one pump. The false wall you are talking about could be an extra wide overflow box with the top of the over flow being for high tide, but slots also cut into the box about mid way down (as an example) for low tide. Much like the picture, you would have two holes cut out in the tank.

 

I would then buy an electric valve that would allow you to put the low tide drain on a timer:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/N-C-12V-DC-1-2-250...#ht_4935wt_1396

 

When the timer goes off, the valve would shut...forcing more water into the aquarium.

 

I think this would be the simplest approach. That way you have 1 pump, one timer, one valve, 1 overflow box.

 

If you want me to draw it up for you, I wouldn't mind.

[11GTCS]

I think you could make this work with only one pump. The false wall you are talking about could be an extra wide overflow box with the top of the over flow being for high tide, but slots also cut into the box about mid way down (as an example) for low tide.

 

Depending on your skills, I would then buy an electric valve that would allow you to put the low tide drain on a timer:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/N-C-12V-DC-1-2-250...#ht_4935wt_1396

 

When the timer goes off, the valve would shut...forcing more water into the aquarium.

 

I think this would be the simplest approach. That way you have 1 pump, one timer, one valve, 1 overflow box.

 

If you want me to draw it up for you, I wouldn't mind.

 

I certainly wouldn't mind, as I'm open to considering all options and while I'm an engineering student, I'd rather not spend any more time in AutoCAD than I need to :/

 

Edit: The false wall in the picture was basically going to be a column style overflow with slits cut as you mentioned. However, I would like to have the double return still for more turbulent flow, as I would likely use this without powerhead if possible.

[Onebaldman]

 

That should do everything you want. The rest of the setup would be a standard tank/sump setup.

[11GTCS]

 

That should do everything you want. The rest of the setup would be a standard tank/sump setup.

 

Thanks! This should be a pretty fun build! The trick now is the make sure the tank doesn't drain or refill too quickly.

[asting]

Why not put your overflow into the top? You could have a small (200gph?) overflow and return pump for the bottom tank, and then have another larger pump on a timer that will overpower the lower box overflow but not the top. The second pump turns on, high tide, turns off, low tide (as it drains from the lower box).

[Onebaldman]

Why not put your overflow into the top? You could have a small (200gph?) overflow and return pump for the bottom tank, and then have another larger pump on a timer that will overpower the lower box overflow but not the top. The second pump turns on, high tide, turns off, low tide (as it drains from the lower box).

 

The engineer in me told me the same thing, but (no offense to the OP) the engineer in me gets me into trouble as well because it over complicates everything I do until I take a step back and look at what really needs to be done. Most of the time, keeping it as simple as possible provides the best results.

 

With that said, I think the two pumps would have to work too hard to keep the tank at high tide. Then, when the high tide pump is shut off, it will still drain out as fast as it would in my example because you want your bottom overflow to work as efficiently as possible when it is at low tide. The only way to keep the efficiency it to "turn off" that box.

[11GTCS]

Why not put your overflow into the top? You could have a small (200gph?) overflow and return pump for the bottom tank, and then have another larger pump on a timer that will overpower the lower box overflow but not the top. The second pump turns on, high tide, turns off, low tide (as it drains from the lower box).

 

I'm not sure I get what you're saying... How is that different than duoc9119's design?

[asting]

I'm not sure I get what you're saying... How is that different than duoc9119's design?

oops sorry didn't read through all of the responses. I think the dual overflow would give you the most control. You could easily do it with a single overflow with low slots (at the level you want at low tide) and a single pump that is on a timer, but this will cause your temp to fluctuate (assuming heater will be in sump) and you will only be running the filters part of the time.

[11GTCS]

oops sorry didn't read through all of the responses. I think the dual overflow would give you the most control. You could easily do it with a single overflow with low slots (at the level you want at low tide) and a single pump that is on a timer, but this will cause your temp to fluctuate (assuming heater will be in sump) and you will only be running the filters part of the time.

 

I traditionally only use protein skimming and DSB for filtration, but your point is well seen. So do you mean like the drawing I set up?

[Onebaldman]

I have another thing you can do for a "wave" action.

 

 

This is a modified version of what they do at water parks. You would use a vacuum to suck the air out of the box, and then when you are ready for your wave...you would either cut power or open an air valve to break the suction. This would allow gravity to take effect and push the water back into your tank (what they do in water parks) and this should cause a natural wave.

[11GTCS]

I have another thing you can do for a "wave" action.

 

 

This is a modified version of what they do at water parks. You would use a vacuum to suck the air out of the box, and then when you are ready for your wave...you would either cut power or open an air valve to break the suction. This would allow gravity to take effect and push the water back into your tank (what they do in water parks) and this should cause a natural wave.

 

That's a really good idea! It would be easy to time and could be intensified or lowered based on tidal pattern. Thanks!