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Unethical reef keeping


JamesHL88

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Tell me I'm not the only one seeing those cats...

 

I've lost many fish. They jump out and get eaten by my cat. I figure getting eaten when I'm not there to save them is more humane han drying out, right? I give my cat a high five for the effort.

 

I care when my fish get sick, but after spending $200.00 and following directions perfectly, I have yet to save a fish. The first night it's all " he's going to make it". The next night, he's dead. I wont ever spend a dime again on a sick fish. If he gets sick, that's it for him. I won't help him die either, that's his choice. I just let stuff go on its own now. I do bury all my dead fish in flower pots as I feel bad flushing them.

 

Oh, I forgot to mention xenias...I WILL go crazy on them. I flush those bastards as soon as I can get a hold of them. I HATE them so bad, they grow over my sps corals and kill them. That and mushrooms. I kill both for the fun of it. I laugh at their screams as I flush the toilet.

 

Matt

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It all depends on how you were raised and the type of person you turn out to be. I really do feel a type of love for my fish and shrimp. Especially the two clowns that i've had for three...almost four years. Their lives depend on me to feed them and maintain their home. when i see them greet me at the top of the tank, I feel a bond with them, even though they could give two ####s about me. Any animal that you have purposefully bought/brought into your life, you are saying to yourself, "i promise to take care of you." -At least that's how I feel. But i'm also a person who rescues dogs and cats from shelters, raises baby pigeons found on the street, and releases insects back outside instead of killing them.

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It all depends on how you were raised and the type of person you turn out to be. I really do feel a type of love for my fish and shrimp. Especially the two clowns that i've had for three...almost four years. Their lives depend on me to feed them and maintain their home. when i see them greet me at the top of the tank, I feel a bond with them, even though they could give two ####s about me. Any animal that you have purposefully bought/brought into your life, you are saying to yourself, "i promise to take care of you." -At least that's how I feel. But i'm also a person who rescues dogs and cats from shelters, raises baby pigeons found on the street, and releases insects back outside instead of killing them.

 

Yeah has to do with how you were raised i guess. I grew up hunting and fishing. Guess thats why im on the other end of the spectrum.

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I love my dog. I love my cats. I have an attachment of sorts to plants in my garden. My garden is a challenge and can be a rewarding one. I sort of think of the aquarium in the same way. It's a challenge, an ongoing education, success is rewarding as it is in the garden. I feel disappointment when my plant I paid good money for and worked to make things just so for it up and dies. I don't have a funeral for my rosebushes, though. Not at all scientific or necessarily "correct," but I do feel a fish is higher in the food chain than a rosebush, and the attachment is greater, but not on a par with what I feel for my dog. My children....you can flush them. (kidding, don't have kids)

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Would you flush this fish?

 

No because that is awsome! I would flush all my other fish to have that one. But just because he is chasing a laser doesnt mean he is playing. It is triggering predator instinct to catch and eat.

 

BTW that fish is agile

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It's interesting to observe (in myself as well as others) what constitutes ethical versus not depending primarily on how cute the animal is.

 

Squish a cockroach? Of course.

Throw a half dead coral in the trash? Yep.

Eat lamb for dinner? Fine.

Kick a dog in the ass? Go to jail.

Keep a tang in a 40G? NEEEEEEENAWWWWWWWWWWW

Flush a diseased fish? Depends how cute it is.

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Who here would crush their fish to death for a buck? Anybody?

 

Who here would crush their fish to death for a million bucks? Everybody?

The real question is, would you crush your puppy for a million bucks?

 

How about a cat?

 

Hamster?

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I disagree with the notion that an aquarium is instantly an inhumane way of housing fish. Sure a fish can freely roam the entire reef, just as I can roam the entire world. But I don't because I am confined to a house with everything I need. Just as a fish is housed in an aquarium. I say as long as proper conditions are maintained, fish should be quite content. We are providing homes without predators and constant food.

 

This is just my opinion... as for humane treatment... I have done bad things in the past before I knew what I was doing. I flushed my catfish when I was 8. However I provide a clean environment and have never had a fish die of disease. Most just jump out :D

 

And my opinion for fish as pets? My lone clownfish is named Wiggles McSwimmingsworth and he's my bro. He headbutts my hand and swims in circles. As a poor college student... he means a fair amount to me. Probably because I can't afford amazing 90 reefs or anything.

I agree 100% with you! I think fish are just fine in an aquarium, as long as you keep it clean and reasonable. And as you kind of said not all of us have all the money to buy all the top equipment. I am 16 years old and i cant afford to go out and by 5, $60 testkits. I would still like to be in the hobby and i think I can, as long as i keep it simple. Like he said, i cant afford to have a 90 gal aquarium. I am sad when one of my fish dies, i have a yellow watchman goby that i got on my birthday last year, and I am very attached to. However, i dont think fish are the same as dogs.

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I would if I needed the money to pay for a family members cancer treatment. I'd twist the ####ers head clean off for that.

 

Good point, but nobody would every offer you $1,000,000 to smash your puppy. That's just absurd. :lol:

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The real question is, would you crush your puppy for a million bucks?

 

How about a cat?

 

Hamster?

 

I've done a lot more for a lot less....

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Do fish feel pain? I don't know. I'd assume so. They are wired with all the basics to survive and feeling pain is very basic. Before anyone insists that they don't feel pain.....it's only recently they started giving local anesthesia to baby boys getting circumcised because it was believed babies didn't feel pain. Cringe!!@!

So I have to assume, since I don't know, that fish feel pain. But so do cows and pigs, etc, and we eat those so I've just added about nothing to the discussion.

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It all depends on how you were raised and the type of person you turn out to be. I really do feel a type of love for my fish and shrimp. Especially the two clowns that i've had for three...almost four years. Their lives depend on me to feed them and maintain their home. when i see them greet me at the top of the tank, I feel a bond with them, even though they could give two ####s about me. Any animal that you have purposefully bought/brought into your life, you are saying to yourself, "i promise to take care of you." -At least that's how I feel. But i'm also a person who rescues dogs and cats from shelters, raises baby pigeons found on the street, and releases insects back outside instead of killing them.

 

 

Yeah has to do with how you were raised i guess. I grew up hunting and fishing. Guess thats why im on the other end of the spectrum.

 

I agree with both of these statements....I was raised to not harm anything unless it poses a threat or your gonna eat it. My fiance and I always take strays to a shelter or find some way to help out injured animals. And we both love and take care of our animals. I also grew up hunting and fishing, however I do not feel the need to kill an animal unless it is to get eaten.

 

As far as fish go...meh. I keep fish...I like my fish that hide more then my active fish, because its exciting to see something you don't see 24/7. Granted I love my fish..but the love is mostly for the dollar I spent on them and so I can have enriched fish poop for my corals. This does not mean I care any less about they're lives. Just they are for pooping purposes so I keep them healthy to keep my corals healthy. Meh

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As far as i know nobody is arguing that fish dont feel pain we are all are pretty much in agreement there. To me this was supposed to be more about if u feel that they are pets or a hobby and if you feel emotions towards them beyond the dollar spent on them. Cows feel pain to but i dont feel bad about eating them, or any of the things i hunt myself, (deer, doves, frog gigging, noodling, yeah im a redneck i know)

I didnt mean to start a discussion on the sanctity of life i was trying to weed out some people like me who dont do everythng exactly the way they are always suggested in the forums. And try and confront the reasons they get flammed for asking things like can i keep this fish in this tank. Even though we come from different schools of thought i think Altolamprologus got where i was goin with this. What made me start this thread was the response to this thread. It really got crazy. And even though i love following threads like that. I was just wandering would everybody talk to each other with this litlle respect if we were face to face?

 

The real question is, would you crush your puppy for a million bucks?

 

How about a cat?

 

Hamster?

 

For a million, i would beat the dog to death with the cat, then rape the hampster while my fish watched.

 

EDIT: i take one statement back .... one person did say they think fish dont feel pain.

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I think I fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. I don't believe in harming living creatures therefore I would not keep an animal that wasn't well suited for my setup. However, I don't feel it is 'cruel' to keep fish in a tank. Are cats happier when left to roam free and hunt? Yes, but they live shorter lives and die painful deaths. At least my fish have clean water, daily food, and no risks of predators. I think that makes up for a lack of swimming room. I'm only attached to my tanks because of the time and money invested in them. I've spent more on my 'reef' tank (with a whopping one coral) than I did on my purebred miniature dachshund. But my doxie keeps me warm at night so I like her better anyway. :happy:

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For a million, i would beat the dog to death with the cat, then rape the hampster while my fish watched.

 

I might pay a million to watch this along with the fish. :huh: Something different anyway...

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