50w LED Spotlights, anyone using these?

[AquaticEngineer]

Has anyone here experimented with these yet?

 

More or less I am trying to re-create what Ecoxotic has done recently with their 50w Cannon lights, but DIY it and save myself $500

 

I just purchased this from ebay as a test light setup:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT

 

Along with this for the heatsink:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=370494796097

 

They do sell optics for these lights on ebay, they sell 90 degree, and 60 degree lenses. I'm working on using an old lens from a surveillance camera as an adjustable LED lens.

 

Here are the lenses from Ebay:

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksi...kw=50w+led+lens

 

Right now my total cost on the test light is $54.87, and my neighbor funded me $50 of it to buy one and test them out to see if he should use them over his reef he is building.

 

Wish me luck and fast shipping

[sogreedy23]

i know nothing about leds lol but it sounds pretty cool, i'll probably keep up with this. thats gunna be pretty yellow when it's finally lit up, no?

[DirtyC]

just add about 8 royal blues around that bad boy

cant wait to see some pics and results

[Trick]

I bet you'd be the first to travel this road. If you have the funds try it. You would have to put some Royal blue and regular blue Led's around it to get the 10k color. That LED is like a Cool white. Would make a cool spotlight.

[AquaticEngineer]

i know nothing about leds lol but it sounds pretty cool, i'll probably keep up with this. thats gunna be pretty yellow when it's finally lit up, no?

Yeah the one I am buying to test is rated for 6500k, if its what I like then I may purchase a 12k bulb I found on ebay for $51 a piece HERE

 

just add about 8 royal blues around that bad boy

cant wait to see some pics and results

I had thought about supplementing with blue leds, but the tank I am puting it on is 48" deep and will have all NPS corals in it. I'm going with this light mostly for the penetrating power they have and to have a single point light.

 

I bet you'd be the first to travel this road. If you have the funds try it. You would have to put some Royal blue and regular blue Led's around it to get the 10k color. That LED is like a Cool white. Would make a cool spotlight.

Thats really what it will be, it'll be going on my coldwater tank so a single point of light with lots of shadows will be the end result.

[sogreedy23]

Yeah the one I am buying to test is rated for 6500k, if its what I like then I may purchase a 12k bulb I found on ebay for $51 a piece HERE

 

 

I had thought about supplementing with blue leds, but the tank I am puting it on is 48" deep and will have all NPS corals in it. I'm going with this light mostly for the penetrating power they have and to have a single point light.

 

 

Thats really what it will be, it'll be going on my coldwater tank so a single point of light with lots of shadows will be the end result.

 

Sounds like it's gunna be pretty sweet..I like the shadowy/Cryptic/ ominous look that's possible with nps tank & holy 48 inches is pretty damn tall! lol

[disaster999]

a local reefer have 5 of this in his tank 180gal tank. 50"x35"x24"

 

reefbuilder did a little coverage on his tank too

http://reefbuilders.com/2010/12/20/vivaldi...erpiece-making/

[blasterman]

More or less I am trying to re-create what Ecoxotic has done recently with their 50w Cannon lights, but DIY it and save myself $500

 

For god's-sake please use Bridgelux and ignore the Semi based arrays pimped on Ebay. Bridgelux are cheaper per lumen, have vastly better Q/C, and actually perform as spec'd. You can also find more optic options for them.

 

Also, unless your friend likes the color yellow over his tank you'll need at least a dozen royals to match that big white emitter.

[evilc66]

I can't agree more with Blasterman. Do yourself a favor and get a quality emitter (i.e. something that doesn't come out of China). Also, higher wattage doesn't automatically mean better. Higher wattage LEDs tend to have shorter lifetimes, lower efficiency, and higher failure rates. Use what you purchased as a test, but please don't use them for a final installation. Also, that heatsink seems highly inadequate for a 50W LED, unless you have a fan blowing on each heatsink.

 

Bridgelux is the place to be for high output, high wattage LEDs. Far higher quality, better color rendition, and greater efficiency than comparable products. They can also be purchased through reputable retailers like Digikey and Newark.

[AquaticEngineer]

For god's-sake please use Bridgelux and ignore the Semi based arrays pimped on Ebay. Bridgelux are cheaper per lumen, have vastly better Q/C, and actually perform as spec'd. You can also find more optic options for them.

Got a link for them? I plan on using a far better quality LED when the testing is finished.

 

Also, unless your friend likes the color yellow over his tank you'll need at least a dozen royals to match that big white emitter.

He's planning on spotlighting the corals with the 50w LEDS for growth and then supplementing with blues either LED on a dimmer, or some VHO's. His tank will be housed in the garage with the front viewable in the house, so he can mess with lighting as much as he wants.

 

 

 

I can't agree more with Blasterman. Do yourself a favor and get a quality emitter (i.e. something that doesn't come out of China). Also, higher wattage doesn't automatically mean better. Higher wattage LEDs tend to have shorter lifetimes, lower efficiency, and higher failure rates. Use what you purchased as a test, but please don't use them for a final installation. Also, that heatsink seems highly inadequate for a 50W LED, unless you have a fan blowing on each heatsink.

The problem with the lower wattage LEDs for me is that I dont think I can get visable light penetration down to the bottom of a 48" tank. Thats why I went for the 50 watters. Even If I replace one of these LEDS 3 times a year it'll still be cheaper than metal halide, produce less heat, and be more cost effecient in the long run.....hopefully 1

 

The heatsink will have CPU fans blowing across it, at least until I can build a suitable solid aluminum housing like the Ecoxotic cannons use as a heatsink.

 

Bridgelux is the place to be for high output, high wattage LEDs. Far higher quality, better color rendition, and greater efficiency than comparable products. They can also be purchased through reputable retailers like Digikey and Newark.

Got links?

[evilc66]

The problem with the lower wattage LEDs for me is that I dont think I can get visable light penetration down to the bottom of a 48" tank. Thats why I went for the 50 watters. Even If I replace one of these LEDS 3 times a year it'll still be cheaper than metal halide, produce less heat, and be more cost effecient in the long run.....hopefully 1

 

The heatsink will have CPU fans blowing across it, at least until I can build a suitable solid aluminum housing like the Ecoxotic cannons use as a heatsink.

 

 

Got links?

I proved this all wrong last weekend at Reefstock.

 

Yes, you most certainly can have lower wattage LEDs reach that deep, and still have high PAR values. Using brute force to increase your intensity at depth is a poor approach. Using an LED with higher overall efficiency at the right drive current, and using the right optic is a much smarter way to go about things. As an example, take a peak:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...=257668&hl=

 

Granted, this is a larger array than you would be looking at, but it get's the point across. You want PAR over 300 at 48"? This can do it. Now, this covers a very large area when you are talking about 48" distance from target to LED (about a 32" coverage area. If you want to spotlight a smaller area, a single cluster with tighter optics (I was using the widest optics for the Bridgelux) will get the job done easily.

 

Don't use the fact that a handful of 50W LEDs will be cheaper over the long run as a positive. It may be a positive over MH, but kind of takes away from the point of going LED in the first place. LED is supposed to be set it and forget it, for years. Build it right the first time, and you can get that kind of reliability. I wouldn't use the Ecoxotic heatsink as a good example of what to do though. You can do a lot better than that, and keep LED temperatures way below their threshold.

[AquaticEngineer]

Thats the thing with my application of LEDs is that I dont care what the par is for coral growth, all the inhabitants of my tank are non photosynthetic coldwater marine animals. I would like the visible light to penetrate in streaks when I have it on, and that will only be for viewing it, not on a regular timed schedule. Minimizing heat is also another issue since it is a coldwater marine tank.

 

I dont want to have a large array of LEDs, I want a single point of light in a compact design that replicates how the sun comes down into the deeper portions of the ocean like this:

 

This is the what I want the end result of the tank to resemble with the pylons covered.

 

 

With that in mind, is it possible to get enough light out of another LED setup to penetrate 48" and still fit in a light housing the size of my fist?

[evilc66]

You didn't mention that at the begining.

 

Why not look at some of the PAR3X lamps out there? Get's the effect that you want, with far less effort.

 

If not, then you would at least want small arrays of multiple colors to get the typical blue reef look. You don't have to resort to the large high wattage LEDs though. You could get the same brightness and effect from a few white and blue 3W class LEDs with tight optics to get that "shaft of light" effect. Wattage would be lower overall, and the lifetime of the system would be greatly improved.

[AquaticEngineer]

You didn't mention that at the begining.

LOL, I'm sorry, I cross posted on a few forums and I completely forgot to mention it here That probably would have helped huh?

 

Why not look at some of the PAR3X lamps out there? Get's the effect that you want, with far less effort.

I will definitely take a look at these, any idea on typical pricing?

 

If not, then you would at least want small arrays of multiple colors to get the typical blue reef look. You don't have to resort to the large high wattage LEDs though. You could get the same brightness and effect from a few white and blue 3W class LEDs with tight optics to get that "shaft of light" effect. Wattage would be lower overall, and the lifetime of the system would be greatly improved.

 

Any recommendations for an small array setup? The whole goal is to get a fairly narrow beam and keep it all in a tight package similar to the Cannons so I can get the most penetration, not necessarily the best light spread and par output. Maybe a single array of the setup like you posted above with one of the bridgelux LEDs surrounded by royal blues tucked into a single fixture with narrow optics?

 

Or would a single Bridgelux LED in a higher degree kelvin be an option?

[evilc66]

Depending on the brand, PAR3X lamps run from about $60 to $100. If you are looking for that "shaft of light" look, you will most likely have to get optics tighter than normally offered. The tightest that are typically offered is 40 degrees, and on a tall tank, you are going to get quite a bit over area coverage. Right now, my PAR38 and RapidLEDs PAR30 and PAR38 might be the best options, as we both use standard Cree optics that are available in 25, 16, and 8 degree options, getting you closer to that pencil thin beam of light you are looking for.

 

If you want to build something yourself, there are a ton of tight optics options available for almost all LEDs. Bridgelux might not be the most energy efficient option for this application. Plus, the reflectors that are offered may have tight angles, but will still spill a lot of light. The smaller LEDs have options for TIR (total internal reflection) lenses, which spill less, and will get you that beam of light.

 

Don't use high kelvin whites. They wash out colors pretty badly. You will want to stick with a mix of white (4500-6500K) and royal blue LEDs to get the best color rendering and overall tank color. What might work well is using Luxeon Rebels in a triple LED star. Luxeon Star can build them in any configuration you like, and have tight angle lenses available. Actually, our very own DaveFason has been doing a lot of work with Rebels, so he may be able to help you out for a little better price. Hit him up and see what he has to say. With the small triple LED boards, you can cluster them together to get the size of the beam you want, or you can separate them to give you multiple beams. Mounting them off to the side angling towards the tank would look pretty sweet.

[AquaticEngineer]

Mounting them off to the side angling towards the tank would look pretty sweet.

 

That's exactly what I was planning on doing Going to mount them only on one side of the tank at a pretty good angle into the water.

 

The layout of the tank and where it will be situated in the house, I'll be able to mount a flush wall mount with a movable socket in it and house the drivers and plugs on the other side of the wall in my closet.

[ajmckay]

I'm trying to think of how to get that type of effect in the pictures you mentioned... I'm wondering if some sort of optic can enhance this look (i.e. frosted lenses, increased surface agitation, etc...).

 

As for spectrum, I would think you'll definitely want to be more blue than white (which I would consider more of a FW scene)... You should also consider a black substrate and painting the back (and sides?) black. Do you know of any other tanks doing a similar thing to "borrow" some ideas from?

[AquaticEngineer]

I'm trying to think of how to get that type of effect in the pictures you mentioned... I'm wondering if some sort of optic can enhance this look (i.e. frosted lenses, increased surface agitation, etc...).

Yeah surface aggitation is what I was going to use along with a single point light angled at the tank from the upper left side.

 

As for spectrum, I would think you'll definitely want to be more blue than white (which I would consider more of a FW scene)... You should also consider a black substrate and painting the back (and sides?) black. Do you know of any other tanks doing a similar thing to "borrow" some ideas from?

 

I dont want to go too blue on it, I would just like really clear white light that is broken up from a single point so it projects rays of light. And yes, definitely painting the back and wall side black, possibly using a dark substrate as well.

 

The only other tanks I have seen like this are all on display at public aquariums, I've never seen a coldwater marine tank done in a home aquarium with simulated pylons and single point light. Hoping I'll be the first

[AquaticEngineer]

Do you think a Par38 bulb with tighter optics on it would achive the same depth penetration as the 50w?

[kgoldy]

BoostLED offers 15 degree optics on their PAR30's, if you PM. That would create a sharp looking column of light you're looking for.

[blasterman]

Do you think a Par38 bulb with tighter optics on it would achive the same depth penetration as the 50w?

 

Evil's 21watt PAR 38's should easily match a 50-watt Semi Array unless the later is over driven.

 

Some of these big Chinese arrays aren't geting more than 60lumens per watt in cool white. You' be hard pressed to find a Cree that's less than 100 lumens per watt. Do the math.

[evilc66]

Right. Stop getting hung up on the 50W LED. You don't need brute strength. You need focusing ability to get the effect you are after. A 3W LED with an 8 degree lens will produce a very intense beam of light.

[AquaticEngineer]

Right. Stop getting hung up on the 50W LED. You don't need brute strength. You need focusing ability to get the effect you are after. A 3W LED with an 8 degree lens will produce a very intense beam of light.

 

Ok, got it LOL.

 

So the solution really for my lighting needs would be something like one of the 5 LED ParX bulbs, with a blue and white mixture, maybe 3 blue 2 white? With very narrow optics.

 

How easy is it to get tight optics that I could put onto one of the ParX bulbs that are on the market?

[AquaticEngineer]

Thought I would share this little video of the 50w LED setup I'm testing for my friend.

 

 

Not bad for only $55 dollars

 

I'll have PAR ratings up soon, we're testing it out after I get a 60 degree optic on it.

[redfishsc]

Thought I would share this little video of the 50w LED setup I'm testing for my friend.

 

Not bad for only $55 dollars

 

I'll have PAR ratings up soon, we're testing it out after I get a 60 degree optic on it.

 

 

Soon I'll be posting some PAR numbers for the 10w white, 20w white, and a 10w Bridgelux 402 in comparison. It will be a HUGE amount of data but I don't have a 50w to study, so when you see that thread (this forum) please post what you found with yours in it.

 

 

Not to mention lots of other LEDs of the 3w variety.