Claw's first 10 gallon nano

[claw]

Hello all,

I am switching this over to a topic purely on my tank and have felt that a new intro is more suiting. I started building my 10 gal nano reef in December, added rock and sand and had it cycle with a freshwater light on in January, and just now got LED lights and some snails (May)

 

Current Stocking

CUC:

Nerites

Nassarius

Ceriths

Turbos

3 Blue Legged Hermits

1 Red Hermit

1 Cleaner Shrimp RIP 8/8/2010

1 Emerald Crab

 

Fish:

Pearly head Jawfish RIP 7/18/2010

2 Ocellaris Clowns

 

Corals:

Zoas

 

Future Stocking

ORA Mandarin

A bright ric garden

More zoas

 

I'll continue to up date the FTS here and any advice is appreciated!!

 

FTS:

[lakshwadeep]

to nano-reef.com

 

Your fish/shrimp stocking is fine, unless you meant a twinspot goby (usually starves in captivity). If you want to save some money (and headaches) skip the hermits.

 

As for lighting, is there a reason you don't like standard fluorescents or metal halides?

 

Don't rely just on the HOB filter for water flow in the display tank. Something like a koralia 1 or nano would be a good choice.

[claw]

to nano-reef.com

 

Your fish/shrimp stocking is fine, unless you meant a twinspot goby (usually starves in captivity). If you want to save some money (and headaches) skip the hermits.

 

As for lighting, is there a reason you don't like standard fluorescents or metal halides?

 

Don't rely just on the HOB filter for water flow in the display tank. Something like a koralia 1 or nano would be a good choice.

 

Thanks! I thought everyone else said that hermits were great for keeping a tank clean? Is there something else I should be looking at to help the snails? The twinspot goby was the one I was thinking of. Should I just plan on a yellowhead jawfish? These seem to be entertaining little fish, and dwelling at the bottom should leave a clown more space, right?

 

Nothing against fluorescents, but MH seem expensive and HOT! A standard fluorescent is my backup/becoming-main plan.

 

The koralia 1 has 400 gph and the nano has 240, correct? Should I stick with the lower flow rate? I know the HOB won't give much current, just water changes but at the same time I don't want to underestimate anything and have a vortex blowing everything around.

 

Thanks again!

[Meech]

My first problem is lighting.

 

I know it isn't LED but this seems like a great deal. I'm in a similar limited cash flow situation as you and for under $100 for T5s should give you enough light judging by this site's T5HO thread. I am also new too all of this so please don't base your decision on this advice... just my two cents worth, see what others have to say.

[claw]

Thanks Meech! That looks like a very nice set up. I'm hoping that after Christmas Break, around the 5th of January, I'll start ordering my salt, sand, LR, and lights. Then I should have a few weeks to recover funds for a CUC. Anyone know of specifics for a CUC? I heard there is one that comes up from under the sand and looks like the sand is boiling. Also, what role do skunk shrimp play in general cleanup? I know that they help clean the fish, but do they do more? What about sexy shrimp?

 

I was also wanting to start reading on exacty what and how to feed perculas and a yellowhead Jawfish.

 

I've decided to go with the jawfish and want to make a little PVC lair as seen in a previous thread. Any specifics or need-to-knows on that?

 

Thanks everyone, I'd be too worried to do this without this forum!!

 

Cam

[ir0n_ma1den]

I just setup a 10 gallon with 6 blues and 6 whites, and the things are so BRIGHT. Only cost me about $160 for the whole thing.

[hahaximmaxfish]

I know it isn't LED but this seems like a great deal. I'm in a similar limited cash flow situation as you and for under $100 for T5s should give you enough light judging by this site's T5HO thread. I am also new too all of this so please don't base your decision on this advice... just my two cents worth, see what others have to say.

Im gonna get the novas and hope they work for me. I may upgrade though if i decide i love sps!

(im not to smart with this light thing...)

[Militant Jurist]

I got a 2x24w T5HO Nova Extreme on ebay for about $75 shipped when I had my 10g tank. I just added another one when I upgraded to my 20L tank. You can keep just about anything with proper bulbs (upgrade to something like ATI bulbs down the road), although you'll need to be careful with SPS. You might be able to keep some of the lower light SPS, such as monti caps, if you keep them high in the tank.

[Konstantine]

Hello. My last tank I created specifically for a yellowheaded jawfish. I didn't do the pvc thing- I made sure the rock was stable on the bottom of the tank and filled it about 4 inches with sugar fine sand. I also bought a handful of rubble that was pieces of shells and various rocks that he used to reinforce. He happen to make his home right under one of the rocks which worked perfectly. Great choice on the jawfish I hope you enjoy. For food I got him some Spectrum sinking pellets and just some brine. They are not picky eaters. I would suggest you purchase him first as they are timid and make sure you have a lid as they like to jump

[hahaximmaxfish]

I got a 2x24w T5HO Nova Extreme on ebay for about $75 shipped when I had my 10g tank. I just added another one when I upgraded to my 20L tank. You can keep just about anything with proper bulbs (upgrade to something like ATI bulbs down the road), although you'll need to be careful with SPS. You might be able to keep some of the lower light SPS, such as monti caps, if you keep them high in the tank.

you just answered all of my questions! thank you! Yeah, im gonna go with the 24" ones. 10 bucks more, psh, even though im broke. bulb suggestions for sps?

[Militant Jurist]

you just answered all of my questions! thank you! Yeah, im gonna go with the 24" ones. 10 bucks more, psh, even though im broke. bulb suggestions for sps?

 

Bulb selection really depends on preference. If you want moderate growth with good looks, get one ATI Aquablue Special and one ATI Blue Plus. If you want great growth with OK looks, I'd suggest getting two Aquablue Specials. You'll be able to have an idea of what you like if you get a Nova with one 12K bulb and one actinic. Actinic really don't contribute much in the way of PAR, which is what fuels photosynthesis. If you like the 1:1 look, the ATI Blue + (actinic) actually does contribute PAR and the Aquablue Special has more PAR than the stock 12K bulb. I know there are other bulbs that folks use (Fiji Purple, etc) but it's really about personal preference. If you want an idea of what the colors might look like, you can compare the two tanks in my sig. The 20L has two ATI aquablue specials and two ATI blue +. The 29g has 2 ATI blue +, 1 ATI Aquablue Special and 1 KJ Fiji Purple.

 

Really, any selection of a 10K or 12K bulb and an actinic OTHER than the stock bulbs will definitely help when it comes to low-light SPS.

[claw]

Wow!! You guys have been busy today! I also think I'm leaning towards the Novas right now. I think I want a tank mostly full of softies, with maybe a frogspawn. I know anenomies are difficult to keep, is there another coral that will work for hosting perculas that is easier to keep? I don't want a completely full tank of corals, but a few accent instead. If it turns out I want more corals and to keep my open look, I'll have to move and get a bigger tank .

 

Anyone have any comments on the CUC and shrimp?

 

 

Iron Maiden: Thanks for the estimate for some LEDs... for now I think I'll try the novas and keep it under a hundred, but if in the future I decide to upgrade, I'll keep that in mind.

[Militant Jurist]

Wow!! You guys have been busy today! I also think I'm leaning towards the Novas right now. I think I want a tank mostly full of softies, with maybe a frogspawn. I know anenomies are difficult to keep, is there another coral that will work for hosting perculas that is easier to keep? I don't want a completely full tank of corals, but a few accent instead. If it turns out I want more corals and to keep my open look, I'll have to move and get a bigger tank .

 

The frogspawn can actually serve as a host for clowns. Same thing with torch corals.

 

 

Anyone have any comments on the CUC and shrimp?

 

Go snails only for the CUC, because crabs are the devil! Oh, and talk to John from ReefCleaners.org. He will HOOK you up!

[claw]

Alright folks,

I'm getting impatient and know that I should wait, but I can at least look around, right? I went to the closest thing I have to a LFS, a Petco in town. For lights, they really had nothing that could work, and the sand was pretty limited choices. Anything saltwater, like LR, fish, or coral, was non-existent. So, while I suspected this would be a mainly mail-order thing, turns out it will be 95% mail order.

 

Militant Jurist: ReefCleaners will definitely be the place to supply my snails. I think I will take the warnings of everyone and try to avoid hermits. I also was curious if a hermit would upset a Jawfish if they both wander around on the sand bed.

 

Does anyone know of a specific type of sand bed that would be best for a jawfish? Like I said, Petco had a really large size sandbag, or sugar-size sand. That was it for saltwater though.

 

What is the best set-up regime? I know it is add saltwater, add LR and LS. Wait for cycle to complete. Then is it CUC, fish, corals, shrimp? I have seen all variations of these last four parts and really can't pin down the best. I hear a cleaner shrimp should be last since they are the least hardy on water quality. One forum said to do fish before the CUC, but then what would keep the tank clean? Another said to do corals before anything, but then do you need to spot feed the corals until fish are in?

 

Right now, I'm toying with the idea of a jawfish added first (in the general "fish" portion of the set-up), waiting a couple weeks, then adding a pair of false perculas. I know this would be a possibly-borderline-overstock, but my thought is the jawfish mainly stays in his den or near it. Would this be completely ridiculously excessive? Or is it possible? If it helps, I'd rather have two perculas with no shrimp than one percula and one shrimp.

 

Thanks again to everyone. The week before I come back I'll start ordering everything so I can hit the ground running as soon as the tank cycles!!

[lakshwadeep]

Hermits (at least the small varieties) are safe with fish.

 

After the cycle, the CUC should be added first. Then, it doesn't really matter what you add, except additions should be spaced out to avoid any mini-cycle. Corals can be added in groups, at times depending on their hardiness. Most soft corals do not need to be spot fed, which can often cause nutrient problems.

 

3 fish is a stress, but you should be fine.

 

Cleaner shrimp really aren't necessary because they have to be fed (nano fish can't provide enough natural food).

[claw]

Thanks everyone. I just sent in a "custom price-limited CUC quote" to Reefcleaners.org and found a nice guy on the marketplace here who sold me a Koralia1 for $25. After the new year I'll start my tank cycle and then be on my merry way!

 

Happy Holidays

[claw]

I found a few things on Ebay that seem to be good lighting options to me, can you guys take a look?

 

Lighting possibilities:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

This seems to be the hardware for lighting. I can build a reflector and housing pretty easy (Full access to a machine shop at school and probably some scrap for free as well) Is this everything I need? Electricity and I are notorious for disagreeing.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I would swap these out with PCs such as http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Or I would do one 10K and one actinic.

 

Anyways, I just thought I'd ask about these two. If people think they would work let me know and I'll jump on one of them. Thanks again everyone!

[shaner014]

I would get the 24" 2x24 watt Nova Extreme. That PC fixture plus bulbs will be about $50. The nova extreme you can find for around $60 plus shipping. Lot better light, lot of bulb options, lot of coral options.

[claw]

Shaner: I do like the way your nova lights up your tank.

 

Does anyone else have $.02 to put in? If I go with a standard Nova light I'll probably wait until after X-mas to order.

 

Thanks

[lakshwadeep]

The nova is an okay choice (2 bulbs limits combinations), but the two fixtures you listed are unsuitable for reef tanks. T8s and T12s are not common, while screw-in PC bulbs are best only for tanks smaller than 5-6 gallons. If you want more information about T5s, check the lighting forum and the T5HO information thread.

[claw]

Alright, I've got a heater and K1 powerhead coming from a fellow NR for 30 bucks total. The hydor heater will fit in my HOB so that should work perfectly. Lights will be after Christmas, as will the sand and rock.

 

I've decided to put a piece of pvc, either a straight tube or a little loop with an outlet, for the jawfish. However, I've seen some people say that the jaws may want a different location, so could I put two in? This would only be to try and give the little guy options. If it doesn't matter I'll do one, or if it will be a bacteria sink I'll only do one. I was also going to put some rubble into the tube to give him something to excavate for the first day or so. Any comments?

 

John from ReefCleaners said I should get 3 nar, 3 nerites, and 10 dwarf ceriths. I'm worried that the ceriths will flip and not be able to right themselves. Can I cut down on them for more of the others or should I just follow blindly?

[Walking_Target]

Cirths will be able to right themselves just fine, they're an elongated coneshell species. The ones you're thinking of having problems righting themselves are Astreas/Trochus/Turbo snails.

 

 

The ohter thing... the other big thing... LED lighting is NOT that expensive, you're thinking in the wrong direction here

 

 

If you want to do LEDs.... you can order the power supplies on Ebay for $20 total ($10 ea)

 

Buckpucks will run you around $20 ea with wiring harness and potentiometers. It's definitely worth it to have the dimming function. and dual controls.

 

you're up to $60 total so far.

 

The heat sink will run you around $30 (90 in total, so far) OR! if you can find a bunch of the 4" long old-style GPU heatsinks (they are dirt cheap or free at used computer stores) you can always string them together with some flat stock and screws.

 

Either way let's go with an even $100 total, just to make life easy.

 

 

now, LEDs... www.nanotuners.com has an excellent special on these, $6.29 each.

 

That works out to around $90 after shipping for all 12 LEDs.

 

Last, but not least, little things like switches, breadboard, wiring etc, let's call it another $20.

 

that's $210 for a fixture you will have for 10-13 years without significant loss of power from the LED elements.

 

Compare that to a $80 fluorescent fixture you'll be replacing bulbs on yearly for about $40-50 each time.

[nanew reefer]

how often do you have to replace t5 bulbs?

[Walking_Target]

how often do you have to replace t5 bulbs?

every 10-14 months depending on bulb quality and your lighting cycle.

 

Reason why is that over time the phosphors undergo spectrum shift, this happens extremely gradually so you don't notice, but your corals will. This also leads to a lot of problems with algae, as the phosphors in the bulb break down, they shift towards the red end of the spectrum (lower energy state). Algae much prefers this spectrum to the usual one we like to keep in our aquariums.

 

 

LEDs on the other hand, work through the principal of electron drop. LEDs produce light by passing a current between two semiconductors, as electrons jump from one energy state to a lower one (the gap across the semiconductor) photons are released, this is what we see as light. The spectrum of the light depends on what the semiconductors are doped with and what kind of casing they're in.

 

This is also why they don't suffer from spectrum shift to the same degree as metal halides and fluorescents, the actual 'working' part of the lighting element isn't extremely hot metal vapor or phosphors: compounds which are not extremely stable by nature.

[claw]

Walking_Target, Thanks for the correction on the snails. I'll just go with the stock package recommended.

 

As for the LEDs, I know that they are cheaper in the long run, but I only have x amount of dollars coming in at a rate of y dollars per month. By the way, y<<x. Now I could wait until I can afford LEDs, but that would be March at the earliest, then to recoup I could wait until May to start buying livestock. I'm hoping to get a cheaper flourescent light for the next year or so, and over the summer be able to upgrade when I have a real job. Until then, I am a poor student with too many hobbies to cut out $200 chunks.

 

Don't get me wrong, I will upgrade to LEDs at some point, but to get a cycle going and the tanks started, I'll keep it on the less-expensive-at-the-moment. The reason it has taken me two months to get as far as I am (a free tank on Craigslist, a HOB filter/fuge to be, and a powerhead and heater from a fellow NR) is that I just spent $250 on avalanche gear because I do Search and Rescue. This is also why I have to wait until the new year for any light at all.

 

Thanks though, and if I could, I would jump into LEDs right now.