George's Red Sea Max Tank

[GAR1964]

Hi folks!

 

As of 24 hours ago, I'm the proud new owner of a Red Sea Max tank.

 

This all started 2 or 3 months ago when my son took his girlfriend to the local fair and came home with "free" goldfish. Fifty bucks later (of course my bucks), he has a little tank to hold them for now. (Before the GF police hit me, I know we're going to be upgrading that tank.) That brought back memories of my freshwater days (I've been out of the hobby for a few years), and that lead to a little Biorb at work and then stumbling across this site, to my contemplating a nano-reef.

 

I was originally just going to get an Aquapod, but... well the floor in my study was an old shelac floor and it was starting to wear though so perhaps we'll redo the floor... you know how it goes. We'll get to the tank in a post or two but here was the initial plan - take the guest room/study and redo it just as a study so I have room to spread out and... now I have a bit more room for a tank.

 

Pics from the BH&G home design software are below (figuring out how to simulate a reef tank was fun). Decided to go with an RSM because of tank location - just inside the door. the Left side is very visible and I didn't want to be looking that the biofilter in a Cadlights tank. I'm also planning on keeping relatively simple stuff for now (if you're reading this several months from now, jump to the last thread and see if I stayed simple).

 

Thanks again to everyone who's given me assistance over the tons of questions these past few weeks.

 

-George

[GAR1964]

Ok, so that was the plan. My son (Thanks John!) sanded and refinshed the floor and that's basically the room we started with - 9x12 standard 1950s shaped bedroom.

 

[dtfleming]

Look in the all in one forum for other Red Sea tanks to give you some ideas. Remember to take it slow and research things before you buy them.

[GAR1964]

So after a lot of paint, almost a week of assembling furniture, moving in, and then discovering that perhaps too much finish was applied to the floor, we have a nice study - though moving any furniture may not be an easy task (especially after the finish hard cures).

 

 

[GAR1964]

So there's this big hole to the left of my desk and I'm now 99 and 44/100% sure it's gonna hold a RSM as soon as I pay off the credit cards from the furniture.

 

 

I go to the LFS (Tropiquarium in central NJ) and find out they sell tanks at cost, and hope that you'll pay top dollar for all the accessories... they priced the RSM at $676 (cabinet included) AND... they have one left where RSM had given them a bunch of starter kits for a promotion and they would throw that in at no charge. Fortunately when I get home, there is my New Jersey Homestead Rebate waiting for me. So it's back to LFS and grab that baby.

 

What, you say you don't think about NJ when you hear the word "homestead"? Of course not, that's codespeak for a program where our politicians take a lot more money from us than they really need, use it interest free for the year, and then return it to us just as election season approaches pointing out how great they are at stewarding our state's finances (NOT). However, this year, I opened the envelope and exclaimed "how nice, this will help towards the nano-reef"! You should have seen the look on my "VP of acquisitions" face when I announced I had spent it all before finishing tearing open the envelope. So the Cabinet goes together with a bit of nudging and we have the end of the first day.

 

 

Now, a bit of commentary about the stand... I just finished putting together a whole office full of Bush furniture. While exhausting, that went together very smoothly. That was not the case with the RSM stand (by comparision). I had to do much more nudging, coaxing and even redoing some holes to get the door to line up right.

 

Lastly, we discovered that my son spent too much time with the sander near the walls, but a couple of hardwood shims take care of that. Everything is level and we're ready to start working on the tank the next day.

[GAR1964]

So Today after I'm done working with the Youth at church, I come home and we start unpacking and assembling the tank. The tank is much better in terms of how everything fits together than the stand. I'll spare you the photos of each individual component, but it's in place, filled (doesn't leak) and now dosed with salt.

 

You may have seen my question on the beginners forum about using LFS water... in the end I decided to buy RO water from LFS since I had the salt in the RSM kit. I used a little more than 30 gal filling it and found on the web that most salt mixes use 1/2 C salt per gallon. I put in the 15 cups of salt into the tank and let the pumps mix it. Right now there are a few crystals in the bottom and SG is reading between 1.019 and 1.020. We'll let the pumps run overnight and see if we need to add more in the morning.

 

Right now, the other question going on in the beginner's forum is where to get the live rock... it gives me something to think about while the system burns in for a few days.

 

[GAR1964]

OK, so the salt dissolved overnight and after work I went back to LFS to return the water containers and think about Live Rock some more. I decided to try some live rock, maybe getting half of what I need this go around. Talk about feeling stupid... I've never really thought about my taste in rocks before. (Before going down this path, I certaintly never have thought of paying $6 a pound for rock either.) The guy asks me what I'm looking for and I'm at a loss. I'm new enough to this that I haven't formed opinions yet. So I ask him to help me choose as if he were setting up a tank.

 

I must say the guy was patient... it's a half hour before the store closes, and he takes his time and explains how I want to be able to stack the rock in an open configuration to assure water flow, but close enough together for stability. He explains to watch out for some of the nastier hitchikers, but that since this rock is almost cured and has been scrubbed, It should be a pretty fast cycle. I end up with 20 lbs, hopefully half of what I need. I think it was 15 lbs of "Figi Base" and 5 lbs of "Tonga Branch".

 

When I get home, I realize I should probably measure the baseline of the main water parameters so I get to play Chemist and break out the Marine Lab that came with the startup kit. They are...

 

SG = 1.021 (center of the black portion of the swing arm hydrometer, though it bounces around a lot from water flow).

 

pH = 8.2

Alk = "Normal"

NH4 = 0 (Yellow with a small tinge of green, but well below the 0.25 color)

 

I'll worry about getting a complete nitrogen picture in a day or two.

 

 

The rock is packed in wet newspaper and was out of the water for maybe 45 minutes (perhaps an hour).

 

I unwrapped it and set it in the tank (being careful to wear the arm lenght gloves you folks suggested).

 

 

I then set about to try my hand at aquascaping...

[GAR1964]

Now in real life, I love puzzles... I'm an analytical chemist, and that's basically what I do for a living (solve puzzles). So I now have 12 or 15 pieces of live rock and need to figure out how they fit together. Of course, solving puzzles while up to your armpits in water and your head hanging down to look through the glass is not exactly relaxing.

 

Anyway, this is what I come up with in first attempt.

 

 

and the view from the left side (which is how you first see the tank as you walk into the room)...

 

 

It's clear I'm going to need more rock. Does anyone out there hazzard a guess as to how much? If these pics represent 20lbs... will 20 more do or will I need more than that.

 

Since this is the first time I've purchased this stuff, can anyone gauge by the pics if this rock is decent enough or should I look to get the rest from another source?

 

At any rate, I guess we start waiting (maybe buying a bit more rock), and see if we get an ammonia spike or if I have any critters.

 

-George

[GAR1964]

Did a complete (except Ca) workup..

 

SG - 1.0205 (between the two values)

Temp - 79

pH - 8.2

NH4 - 0 (with a tinge of green but way less than 0.25)

NO2 - 0.05

NO3 - 2.5

 

LFS guy said I shouldn't see a cycle with this "almost fully cured" rock. Is that really possible? How long should I expect before ammonia starts to kick in?

 

Does anyone know what this white thing is (a bit left of center)? Is that a bleached coral that will come back to life or a dead one that's more recently deceased?

 

 

Thanks for your help.

 

-George

[StevieT]

to the Red Sea Max Club!!!I have to jump in here before I read your entire postHave you added that "reef base" yet that came with the starter kit? Oh I hope not. If you haven't or don't plan on it good. I don't recommend it. I would go with live sand that is actually white in color.1. It will look nicer2. It will provide filtration, and ballance your PH better.Please disregard if somehwere in your post you typed that you arn't going to add it.

Did a complete (except Ca) workup..SG - 1.0205 (between the two values)Temp - 79pH - 8.2NH4 - 0 (with a tinge of green but way less than 0.25)NO2 - 0.05NO3 - 2.5LFS guy said I shouldn't see a cycle with this "almost fully cured" rock. Is that really possible? How long should I expect before ammonia starts to kick in?Does anyone know what this white thing is (a bit left of center)? Is that a bleached coral that will come back to life or a dead one that's more recently deceased?Thanks for your help.-George

Looks like that white thing is a dead Favia or other brain coral. It looks like my green favia. You may see ammonia if you have any live rock die off. Which you can expect if it was shipped since it was out of water for a bit of time. Otherwise when you add in a clean up crew you will see it spike.I can't see that coral coming back to life, it looks tosted.

[GAR1964]

OK, I was actually planning on setting it up "stock" and trying that for a while. Can anyone tell me more about the base vs "live sand".

 

I thought that some of the packaged "live sands" aren't really that live.

 

Anyway... no I have not added it yet. Don't expect to add any substrate for a few days as I need to figure out how much more LR to buy and then get an arrangement I like. How much more rock would you say I need? Double what I have or more/less? Currently, I have 20 lbs in a 34g tank.

 

-George

[StevieT]

I personally hate the way that stuff looks. White sand is way more aesthatic. That stuff isn't alive at all. It doesn't matter how "live" the white stuff is, it will seed itself in a short time. That base they include will take forever to get live bacteria to start growing. Also it is not natural and i believe since they are small little pellets not provide a good structure.

 

I have around 40 lbs in my RSM. I would say shoot for around 1lbs per gallon of water. So you can go between 30 and 40 lbs, whatever you can fit in there and aquascape as you like.

 

I wouldn't say using the other live sand, like carib sea is going out of "stock" most here use it. Just pour out that crappy water thats in the bag before you add it.

 

Check out my thread at the bottom of my signature for ideas of what I did to my RSM.

[GAR1964]

How much sand should I get? one or two 20 lb bags?

 

So you don't use the substrate that came with the kit at all? The paperwork spoke so eloquently about how it would help hold pH and the like?

 

-George

[StevieT]

How much sand should I get? one or two 20 lb bags?

 

So you don't use the substrate that came with the kit at all? The paperwork spoke so eloquently about how it would help hold pH and the like?

 

-George

 

 

I went with 40 pounds (two 20lbs bags) It creates a nice sand bed. I'm not going to go against what red sea max is selling but I read the same thing. In my mind it's junk. But more over I just think it would make your nice aquarium look like crap. It was disapointed when I opened the starter kit and saw that, it went right into the trash.

 

I bought this stuff

 

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/m...y_Code=Livesand

 

mixed with this

 

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/m...y_Code=Livesand

 

even with ground shipping it is cheeper than in the stores which charge almost $25-$30 per 20lbs bag!!!!

[walzon]

I've noticed that most of the rock claimed to have very little or no cycle time has little or no stuff growing on it to begin with so in turn basically no die off basically dead rock JMO

[GAR1964]

Yet another trip to LFS and another 24 lbs of live rock and a (yet unopened) 20 lb bag of live sand.

 

Although it came from the same tank, this batch seems much more "cured" than the one from the other day. Several peices already have some coraline algae on them. I also noticed this time they didn't pack it in a bag, but just loosely covered in wet newspaper.

 

 

So again I tried my hand at aquascaping. I'm going to start a thread in the beginners section because I'm not sure what the rules are. Can I stack it against the back wall? How stable should I expect to get this? (You get the idea).

 

So what do you think? I'm open to any suggestions... especially before I add the sand. Should I keep the Tonga branch stuff at the top?

 

 

Parameters for Today are

 

SG = 1.021

T = 79

pH = 8.2

NH4 = 0 (tinge of green again, but very close to yellow)

NO2 = 0.5

NO3 = 2.5

 

Thanks again for all the comments.

 

-George

[StevieT]

Looks like i can lend you some ideas here again.

 

Don't stack it against the back wall. This prevends any cleaning in the future and you will have a huge algae build up that you won't be able to get at. I left about an inch in my tighest spot so I can get a scraper back there. I would bump your salt up to 1.024 - 1.026.

 

The aquascape is up to you. I like to use tonga around the top area since its light and seems to fit nice up there but it's all up to you. It took me 1.5 hours to figure mine out and get it secure. If you have trouble zip ties work and so does aquamend underwater putty. It dries rock hard underwater. I'd add the sand in now but you can wait to get your aquascape set up and it will "cement" it in around the base. All of my live rock has come with wet newspaper, it's OK to do that and seems to be the standard method.

 

You can post it in the Members aquarium section. THat would be a good spot for others to find.

 

Good luck and keep us informed. I love to see others with this tank!!!

 

OH, are you planning on more flow?

[GAR1964]

I realized today that I forgot to add the Nitro Bac to help the cycle along. Added 13 teaspoons.

 

Here's another pic... the view from my desk chair. Should I be concerned about light spilling out the hood vent. I don't think it passes through any glass (but is is reflected light from inside the hood). I don't want to burn my eyes in this hobby.

 

 

and the view as you enter the room...

 

 

Finally, are we cleaning the filter stuff during the cycle or just let it go?

 

Thanks,

 

-George

[GAR1964]

I rearranged the LR yet again and finally added 20 lbs of Arag-Alive. My bottom rocks all seem very stable, but the top couple may need some putty. Of course putting the bag into the tank to slowly release the sand knocked over the top rocks. Anyway, Here's an FTS.

 

 

You'll notice I got rid of the Tonga branch stuff and one other rock that was basically garbage (black stuff all over it), I just couldn't fit the tonga stuff into the rockscape.

 

The top back right rock has fallen over in the picture... I'll upright it another night and maybe get some putty for the top few rocks.

 

Parameters for today are

 

SG = 1.021

pH = 8.2

NH4 = 0.1 (I'm guessing at this - between colors - but basically unchanged from above)

NO2 = 0.05

NO3 = 2.5

 

The SG is still low. I took out 2 cups of water, stirred in 3 tsp salt for a while then after settling poured back in the sump area. I'll check tomorrow if this has changed anything. Any equation for how much salt to add to raise a 34g tank by 0.004 in SG? In addition to that, I'm topping off with Salt Water until the SG gets to where I want.

 

Thanks for looking!

 

-George

[StevieT]

Looking good George!

 

I think it's a good idea that you are adding salt water to handle your evap until you get your salt up to par. I don't use any specific formula to figure in salt, basically you just have it in your head after a while. I wouldn't worry about the light burning your eyes. I have found that the ammonia test kit will always read with a slight green tint. I tested mine with another test kit and it says 0 while red sea always says 0.1. The other test kits are spot on.

 

You'll probably need to mix more than 3 tablespoons for that volume of water to raise it 0.003 or .004. I rinsed out that black filter once a week since if it clogs it cuts flow. I would reccomend cleaning it as necessary

 

You can use your old tonga for live rock rubble. Smash it up, unless you feel it is junk.

 

Here are some good reef calculators and reference

 

http://jdieck1.home.comcast.net/chemcalc.html

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

[GAR1964]

Tonight was reserved for working on the youth group stuff.

 

I did, however, put my hands in the tank to set the wayward rock back in place. Of course in doing that, I stirred up the tank somewhat, so it doesn't make sense to test anything until the water clears. I'll run the tests in the morning.

 

Here's a FTS with the moonlights on. I'll definitely need some putty to stabalize the top two rocks.

 

 

And I have the first sign of life in the tank! Maybe the live rock really was live...

 

 

How's that for a deal! You pay all that money for live rock (or was it the live sand?) and they throw in a free snail. I'm not going to embarass myself by trying to identify it -- I need to start spending more time in the ID section of these websites.

 

I'm also seeing these tiny (half a cm long) thing things scampering around the rocks in the moonlight. I think these might be the copepods?

[GAR1964]

Still no change...

 

SG = 1.021 (added more SW)

NH4 =0.1

NO2 = 0.05

NO3 = 2.5

T = 79

 

Maybe time to add a piece of frozen shrimp?

[icenine]

Nice start!

Try some two part epoxy to hold those rocks together. Your snail looks like a stometella, nice to have.

[GAR1964]

I went to LFS tonight to get the epoxy needed for the LR work.

 

I decided to take a water sample, as I have not been able to move my SG at all despite adding teaspoonfulls of salt to a cup of tank water, stirring and drizzling it back into tank after fully dissolved. (With everyone so concerned about a day or two's evaporation changing specific gravity, it seemed it should be easier than this.) On their refractometer, they read 1.025 (my swing arm read - and still does - 1.021) They tested for everything and said pH was OK, Ammonia was "clean" and i had zero nitrites with "a hint" of nitrates.

 

Suggested I should add the CUC, but I decided to wait until I had my rock work complete. It cant hurt to let the tank age for another few days. I'll do the epoxy later this week. How long should I let that set up before adding the CUC to the tank? I currently am seeing a bit of diatom bloom on the rocks that were white, and some expansion of the coraline algae on the (already coralinated) rocks.

 

They're suggesting an emerald crab, a hand ful of narcissia snails, and a few blue legg hermit crabs. Are those hermit crabs always smaller than a dime? The ones they sell on the boardwalk are always the size of a half dollar.

 

So I guess a refractometer is now on my birthday wish list. Any guidance on what to look for in one?

 

Thanks,

 

-George

[icenine]

Yes, blue legs are usually very tiny.

Nass snails are great, but don't eat algae.

Emeralds are generally well regarded but always potentially dangerous. I have had a similar sp that came along as a hitchhiker in my tank for several years that does no harm.

I keep mostly astrea and certh snails in addition to a single turbo snail for algae control. If you have a diatom bloom going, you can likely start to add some of the CUC. Start with a few, you can always add on later.

 

As for your hydrometer.... it's a swing arm right? Consistency is the vital bit. It may say 1.021 sg, but as long as you are reasonably sure that 1.021 on your hydrometer really = 1.025 it all still good. I know lots of reefers that use swing arms and get by just fine. You'll need to check the "calibration" regularly just like you need to calibrate a refractometer or conductivity meter. I used to think swing arm hydrometers we just crapola but if kept up and used properly they are not so bad. (the floating hydrometers are actually just fine too and even cheaper).