I would advise against a damsel with anything else in there. The damsel would most likely harass anything else. If you really wanted two fish I would suggest waiting quite awhile until you were rather experienced. Then I would suggest going with two very small gobies.

Thanks a lot! I'll probably just stick with one damsel then!

Ok, I have been doing a ton of reading about cycling, and the process, types of fish their care, and compatibility, but I need a guide as to when it's ok to add things. I'm not finding much help, and have been told so many different things from pet store workers to people who have tanks... How do you know if the fish is doing ok or not? I have done freshwater for years and just started a salt after many years of wanting to attempt it, but i'm so worried i'm not doing something right, or my fish might die. Please help!!

Lucky for you, most nano fish are very hardy in terms of disease and easy to keep fed. For the time to add fish, you should wait awhile between each addition (unless you have a group/pair that should be added together).

This seems to be a wise place to ask, upon reading this and furthering my research, as a fairly noobish reefer, is 2 blue neon gobies too high a load for a 6G pico? Im merrily cycling but thought it best before wandering into LFS for my RO water top up and suffering "look at the pretty fishy" syndrome If so I'll get them on order when i order my new blue legged dwarf hermit

Very helpful guide!

yes! agreed! i picked all my nano fish based on this guide.
THANKS FOR THE HELP lgreen!

That should be okay. Nutrients will have to be monitored carefully.

Great Guide LGreen!

rule of thumb is usually 1 inch of fish per gallon..You don't want to overload your system with fish as your filtration won't be able to handle the load and your parameters will tank...I have a 12 g and I have a nano percula who doesn;t get bigger than 2 inches, and 2 green chromis who are like an inch each. I will add a goby in a few weeks but I think that will be it for fish! I like my water sparkling

That's not at all the rule, and the purpose of this thread is almost the complete opposite...

+1

Also, chromis are not good choices in small groups (which is the maximum most nano tanks can keep). They usually dwindle down to one fish. Chromis grow larger than an inch, and they are active swimmers.

I have always loved this guide.
But are you ever gonna finish it with adding the feeding suggestion part??? I think that could come to use for me and a lot of other members on here.

When will the feeding suggestions be up?

hi to all
thanks to your useful info
i own a 10g hailea nanoreef and i have one live rock full of Redbull eye mushrooms
i have problem for planning the aquaspace so i send back all of my live rock to LFS till i decide how to put them
now i have 3 damsles ( 3spot ) and two batfishes and they swim happily in the the tank
the magor factor i assumed to have these 5 fishes is their size
the overall lenght of all of them are less then 2.5 inches
each batfish is about 7 mm and damsles are about 5 and 6 and 7 mm so i tought in such a small size i can have any fishes
batfushes grow quickly and when they reach about 5 cm i will send them back to LFS and i will try another species as well as damsles
i planned to get two clown fishes less than 1 cm instead of batfishes when they become bigger and a little anemone in the size less than a hand
and also as i made an ATS for my nano and it will work as a pod farm i think i can have a mandarine in such a size
but the most problem i have is aquaspacing
i will be thankfull about any help for right and eyecatching aquaspacing recommendation

best regards
k.zangeneh

oops
excuse me
i forgot to ask if we can have seahorses in these nanos with another species ?

to nano-reef.com

You should remove the batfish and the damsels if you want the clownfish. A ten gallon tank can only support around 2 small fish. The clownfish will not do well with aggressive damsels, anyway.

Don't buy things based on the size you see them; buy only things based on their full-grown size. This is why batfish should not be kept in nano tanks, and a "5 cm" long batfish will be much taller than it is long, which is why very large and deep tanks are best for them.

Also, not any anemone can be kept with clowns, and clowns are much easier to keep than anemones in a new tank. The anemones that clowns live in the wild grow huge, too much for a ten gallon.

DO NOT BUY A MANDARIN just because you have an algal turf scrubber. Mandarins should only be kept by people who have experience with easier fish and understand how to wean them off onto prepared foods; assuming the mandarin will survive on pods in a ten gallon (even with a ATS) is not a good idea.

Seahorses are an even greater challenge and are best kept in species-specific tanks with carefully selected live rock (the anemone will likely eat them); visit seahorses.org and its library for more info.

Bottom line: You need to do research before buying livestock!

thanks alot lakshwadeep
i did research for about 6 months before i set up my tank and after that i continue to reading every where
i had my tank 6 months with one damsle fish and also i worked with one of my friends who has a big tank about 100 g
after all of these reading and experinse i start to set up my own tank
yes you are correct dmsles can not tolerate clown fishes in such a little space so when they come the damsles will go out
my plan is to keep any species for a preiod of time and checking them and knowing their behaviors and other related parameters then in the next two years i will have an acceptable knowledge and experience for setting up my dream tank in my own house ( 20ft lenght * 5ft width * 6ft depth )
so i began with local species which are very hardy ( thanks god for Persian Gulf species ) then every 2 or 3 months i will try another species and keeping watching and noting them
at last i will be able to choose my desired and ideal species both in fishes and inverts as well as corals

about the mandarin : i will try to learn it eating any food i feed it the pods are only for backup and the time it take to become an anything eater ( its a practice too )

about batfishes : i tried them because i like them and they are a good choice for dream tank ( so i have to examine them and learn about their behavior ) just now they like me very much, every time i went close to the tank both of them comin next to the front side and looking at me they also eating only from my hand

about damsles : they are very dynamic i couldnt take a good photo from them due to their swimming speed they became a little big about 1 mm each and i think i must send them back to LFS as soon as they grow another 1 or 2 mm

i still waiting for your recommendation about aquaspacing, any operational beautifle eyecatching fishfriendly coral friendly layout of liverocks

thanks again

This is an interesting forum - very extensive posts!
Well, lgreen, that was a detailed write up. ' would give my contributions and possible disagreements soon.
Keep up the good work.

Made a few updates and 2/3 done w/ fish feeding section. I'll try to finish the rest in the next week or two. Thoughts and opinions about the feeding section welcome and appreciated or if you'd like to add stuff.

Thanks All
SeaSerpant

I sent you a PM SeaSerpant.

Ok...looking for some opinions and feedback. I am considering removing the minimum acceptable tank size. Based on seeing my guide linked to on other forums and reading their criticisms of it on their forums, I can see a lot of people are misunderstanding the point of the minimum acceptable tank size. I'm not sure if it really serves any purpose, except to perhaps pave the way for beginners to push the limits from the start.

My first post here, but...

I think its great that there is some kind of constructive information out there for tank sizes under 10g. Everyone stops at 10g like its some kind of unwritten law. I have personally kept a Mandarin in a 55g(no fuge) for about 8 months now and when I first started with my Mandarin all I could find were people throwing around numbers like 180g and 150g which I now realize is just plain ignorance.

As far as Nano tanks go, if a fish doesn't grow larger than 1" and doesn't even move off of his 4" rock that he perches on... then what's wrong with keeping him in a 2 gal as long as he's well fed?

I found this thread while looking for a fish for my 2gal pico. The obvious choice is a goby. I had no idea that Catalina Gobies were cold water before reading this, so I might stay away from that one, but I was wondering about a Hector's Goby (Amblygobius hectori). I didn't see it on your list and I think that it being omnivorous would have a few benefits in a tank <10gal. What do you think? My 2gal has a 13w 50/50 CF bulb, no heater or chiller(stays room temp) and currently has 2x Astrea Snails, 1x Blue legged hermit, 3x assorted Ricordea Florida and some Zoanthids. I am always on top of my feeding schedule, so what would be a good 2 gal goby?

Again, I appreciate a forum that's so open-minded to responsible nano stocking.

I think A. hectori is and/or gets a little too big for a 2g. If you really wanted to push your luck, it might do ok in a 5-7g, but 10g would be more ideal. I will add it to the list though!

Thanks for the response, guess I will stick to the Clown Goby.

The clown goby will also be a lot easier to feed than the Hector's, which (like other Amblygobius species) need hair algae as part of their diet. This a good article on the genus Amblygobius:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/3/fish

However, the bigger issue with "small" picos like a 2 gallon is that they can be less stable (i.e. temperature/salinity swings) than larger tanks, and so adding one fish, even if it is a goby, can create issues if something went wrong.


lgreen: I agree about changing the minimum tank sizes. Many beginners appear to stock without considering compatibility issues because they try to fish based only on tank size. I think a separate section on stocking, discussing aspects like general activity and how to choose fish that have different niches. As an aside, it would be nice if there were links to some articles like the one I posted here under each genus/family.

I think adding articles to each genus/family is a great idea. We can start compiling a list here if you guys would like and then I can add them in and give you credit for finding them.

I will go ahead and remove the minimum acceptable tank size and could think about adding additional sections.

As always, contributions are welcome too if anyone wants to write something up that they think should be in this guide.

Haha. Some United Kingdom douche bag, who claims he has written permission from myself and Chris Marks (having permission from CM means nothing, he doesn't own my guide) to post my guide on some UK reefing forum as part of his own guide, telling people to post/pm him with changes and he will make changes to my guide as they see fit.

Assuming I ever did give him permission, this is abusive and insulting.

From now on this guide will remain strictly on nr.com, reeftuners, and nanotank.com. I am in the process of trying to have it removed from ultimatereef.net since said douche bag won't cooperate. If anyone else would like to stand up and support me here, please register at ultimate reef, to the nano reef forum and look for the sticky and give them hell.

Thanks.

This guy seems to be the biggest DB on earth. Threaten him with court lol

I fully agree. As aquarists we should be attempting to provide more ideal conditions for the fish we attempt to care for instead of attempting to put the fish in the smallest tank possible- forcing it to simply survive.

Thanks for the great info.

I was thinking it would be nice if there is a link to pics and description added next to each fish listed.

Maybe I am just asking too much.

What about Cinnamon Clowns? They are captive bred as well. Or would they fall in the tomato category? LOL

Ocellaris/percula clowns are the best choices for nano tanks because of their small size and generally peaceful temperament. Tomatos and cinnamon clowns are best kept to "medium" (~30+ gallons) or larger tanks.

This guide is really nice!

I do wish there was an invert nano guide this robust. Inverts are just so much cooler then fish!

needs to be revised

Care to point out what needs to be changed? It's harder to do that than just blurt out a nearly useless statement.

Does lgreen still update this guide?

A possible update to consider.

For seahorses you state the following sources:
-www.seahorse.org
-www.seahorse.com

Both have raised their tank size recommendations since the article was written.

Using seahorse.org their latest recommendations are at
The new recommendation is here. http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/c...e/careguide.pdf

Hey there.

I am just curious why percula and ocellaris are fine for a 7 gallon tank, but dottybacks, which don't get any bigger, need a 10 gallon. I am not disputing anything. I am simply curious what the reasoning is behind it.
Obviously, I am thinking a one-fish tank here. Some day, I might want to do a one-fish dottyback tank.

Maybe he made a mistake,,,,we all make them.

Nice edit. Grow up.

i went and looked, but all i saw on the sticky was a link back here?

Isn't the Orange Stripe Goby and Randall's Shrimp Goby the same species of fish?

It depends. The first name could describe many species of gobies, but the second name is more specific (Amblyleotris randalli).

There is a lot of conflicting common names.

Follow what Laks said.

Ok Thanks.

Great thread, thanks!

I wonder if it is possible to keep a Diamond goby or Tiger goby (the sand-sifting ones) in 29G? If their diet is supplemented with cultured pods?

It would be also very helpful if you would extend your guide to inverts and cuc

to N-R!!!!!!

I wouldn't do the diamond goby, way to big. You can do a Tiger Watchman Goby though.

Wow this guide is great!! I'm new to saltwater aquariums and nano reefs, and I was wondering if it's possible to put either a percula or ocellaris clownfish in a 5g tank. Thanks!

to N-R LoveTheWhale!!

I think you could do 1 clownfish in a 5 gallon. Either species would work.