Isn't .5 a bit unfair on the fish unless it was a small neon goby? This thread is quite accurate and pecise in what it says. I like the idea of the species and tank size categories, making it easier to choose. Thankyou for helping me decide stocking for my 12 gallon NanoCube.

Random.

whats the most "reef safe" dottyback ?

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dwfdwfangels.htm

What about the Dwarf Dwarf Angels? Particularly, I'm interested in Centropyge flavicauda, the Pacific Pygmy, which only gets to be about an inch.

Wonderful list! Thanks, lgreen.

I think I have a couple of the more common ones listed such as the atlantic pygmy angel and the african flameback pygmy angel.

Probably like 20g mim for flavicauda.

I wouldn't mind coming across some of the more colorful (besides purple/blue orange) pygmies myself.



As far as I know most of the common ones you see for sale (aka pseudochromis) are reef safe. Small risk of eating smaller ornamental shrimp though, but otherwise shouldn't touch coral or other inverts.

Ok, I read this entire post.....I have a 12 Eclipse Bio Wheel filtration, 13 pc lights....10lbs liverock, 3 inches livesand, AquaClear 20 powerhead....I want a pair of clowns, and a pair of dwarf seahorses. Could you suggest what else I might put in my tank? I love colorfull fishes!! Thanks for the invalueable info!

Click to view attachment

Did you read the seahorse section? It states that dwarf horses are not to be kept in tanks larger than 10 gallons. From all the reading I have done, most people recommend horses be kept in a species tank, or at a minimum with very slow, docile tankmates.

Also be aware that dwarf seahorses are pretty high maintenance, as they need newly hatched brine shrimp on a daily basis. If you really want to keep ponies you should check out seahorse.org.

So, I guess clowns are not peacefull. Also it all of my liverock and 3 inches of substrate...my tank it probally 9-10g!

Not trying to be rude, but did you read the info at the site I suggested? A single pair of dwarfs in a tank that size would most likely starve to death.

http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/dwarfKeeping.shtml

They are adorable critters and I would love to have them someday, but after researching I decided they require more time than I am willing/able to give at this time.

Yes, I did and now I am thinking the same as you

Maybe a good excuse to setup a little 2.5 or 5g dwarf seahorse tank? lol

As far as your 12g tank, pair of clowns is great, I wouldn't add very many other fish though. Take a look at the list of fish for 10g and under. Maybe something like a yellow or green clown goby, or some other goby?

what does everyone think of a mystery wrasse (only fish) in a 11g (display area) tank? I wanted a cherub angel, but I think the tank is too small for it, even if its going to be the only tank.

great thread lgreen

VannReefer,

I think a mystery wrasse will get much too LARGE for an 11G tank! Wrasses love to swim and I think an 11G tank would be too small for any wrasse. And besides, a mystery wrasse ain't a cheap fish! hehe You wouldn't want it dying on you!!

Yeah, not too sure about a mystery wrasse anymore...according to the reef book I have it gets 3.1'' and requires a 15g tank, just wondering if it could be done in my 11g, but its not looking so good. Although they are suppose to be very hardy, not sure if I wanna risk it.

When are parts 3 and four coming?

Probably not tell summer.

I am pretty busy with school.

Ok I look forward to reading it.

I see you have a lot of damsels in the 10-12 G section where would you put a Starcki Damsel???

wat about the cuban blenny... awesome little fish. only gets 1.5"max. i have 1 in a 2gal. it could easily be done in a .5

Though I know it's unpopular, as they really aren't reef fish, all common freshwater livebearers could be used in a reef tank. Mollies certainly live in saltwater in the wild, and can quickly be adjusted to it, though some of them like sail-fins probably aren't nano-fish. Guppies and Endlers have been used in nano reefs after being acclimated. I'm considering setting up an "Endler Pico" mainly because they're quite possibly the smallest reef-capable fish in the market, and more ethical to use than wild-caught options. Presumably Platys could be conditioned almost as easily as Mollies, but I'm not sure why anyone would bother.

Boring choices compared to real reef fishes? Sure. But they're worth listing.

A great thread - thank you

I know someone else mentioned this, and i dont know if any one else
but i cant read through the 9pages to see

Dwarf Seahorses are expert only BUT! can be a a great newbie fish... like me!

it is a very delicate horse.. hardly hardy...(i might contradict my self there in a moment) and is very compliecated elements...

i guess i only say that because its a very simple tank

mine is 10gl divided with about 2-3gl connected fuge (divided portion) 12dwarves on the way!
plastic hitches, cheato on the way/copepods on the way and bs eggs. (decapp yourself or buy decapped
b&w sand.
sponge filter
heater and
lights (which you dont really need but it looks better)

experienced keepers will probbably experiment more with what they have in with their horses

i have researched them for 3years and they are finally coming!
and hydroids are a BIG problem

they can be a very hardy horse if you go the safe route and dont complicate things, i wanted to put a whole bunch of stuff that probably would have ended in the demise of my horses if i hadnt joined seahorse.org and posted my ideas there
so anyone who wants to try go there research. they are such a cute creature and i so far recomend them even though i dont have them yet

(which is why i am here for my prospected reef!)

Does the Biocube 8 go with the 7 gallon group?

yep

damn. I was going to for sure do a mantis only tank, but then I found these guys:
http://www.marinecenter.com/fish/pseudochr...tpseudochromis/

http://www.marinecenter.com/fish/pseudochr...ochromisredsea/

And now I just dont know! They are supposed to bo on the small side of pseudochromis. If ya'll think they would do well in my Biocube 8, I might get the mantis, see if it harasses a yellow tail damsel, and if it does't, sell the damsel and finish off the tank with one of those pseudos.

I'd double check everything that site says with a more credible source. They have a history of displaying very inaccurate information.

Cool thanks for the tip I will do some more research.

well there isnt much info for these two species period. however, could you even reccomend a small pseudo (2" max size, maybe 2.5) in a tank like mine?

dottybacks (aka pseudochromis) don't swim alot, they tend to hover, but both of the ones I've had seemed to enjoy the room to dart around the tank. I don't think I would keep one in anything smaller than 20"-24" long. I had a bicolor dottyback in a 46 bowfront and currently have a purple stripe dottyback in my 20 long. I know you're looking at smaller species, but they still have the same characteristics. I just dont think a BC8 gives them the dart space they seem to like. Hope that helps.

-Chris

I found this http://www.saltcorner.com/sections/zoo/fis...ts/Pdutoiti.htm

but they have very little on the other one.

WOW
I think I have a new best friend.

after I get over the severe case of mental constipation I will try again.

I have looked through a few of the reef forums, and this. this is absolutly amazing.

I have kept fresh water fish for a very long time, and just starting to look into salt. and this. post was and is amazing.

if it is as acurate as it apears to be. having it stickied would help me out imensly. in adition to some one on one help this might push me over the edge.

Very helpful.... Thanks for posting it...

Yeah thanks man

good news for dragonet fans,cultured copepods are now available.they aren't cheap.that fish place has them for $18.00 for a small bottle.i'm going to try to keep a manderin dragonet in my new 20 gal in a few months after it cycles and settles down.will let you know how it goes good or bad.

They're good sources of live food for the other fish.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but:

In your puffer section, I believe you are confusing puffers with boxfish.
While puffers do indeed store toxin, it is stored internally and lacks any method of delivery. Besides consumption, it is simply not possible for a puffer to "release" tetrodotoxin. The only way I can see them being dangerous due to their toxicity is if they are eaten by other fish.
Boxfish, on the other hand, can and will release toxin when threatened, and will frequently when dying/dead.

Lime Stripped Goby in my8g BC is awesome!

could u send a good link or two on the lime stripe goby? thanx

when did you copyright this lg?!?

huh?

Hehe! Obscure references tickle me.

smart ass

Couple things abou the puffers:

"puffers in that they do carry toxin and have the ability to wipe out an entire tank if stressed or killed. When stressed you may see them puff up. DO NOT try to make them puff up just for fun unless you want to risk killing it and everything in your tank"

Puffers don't emit toxins, Box fish do but thats a different species. Only way for a puffer to kill another fish is by being eaten by the puffer, or eating the dead puffer. Every puffer I've ever had (I've had 5 different SW, 7 total) thats puffed up, after they go hide. I've never seen one go on a killing spree.

About the puffers and tank size, none of those should be in anything less than a 55 IMO.

Incorrect. Boxfish are a type of puffer. I agree that a puffer must be consumed to poison a fish, however, puffers have tetrodotoxin w/in their liver/gonad area that potentially could wipe out a tank maybe if the fish died and just sat there and degraded. It doesn't take much tetrodotoxin to do a lot of damage.

If any fish dies and sits there its almost always bad for the tank. It would take awhile for a puffer to degrade that bad, by then water tests should be off and you should know somethings wrong.

Meh. I've sold fish for six years and never once seen a fish's death have the slightest significant effect on the overall health of the tank. Now if you lost a whole tank of fish, yeah, you might see a spike, but again, not typically from losing 1 or 2 fish. If you do see an effect, your tank is over stocked or under maintained, or too small of a tank.

Fish degrade pretty fast. A fish can die and bristle worms/crabs can have them pretty much taken care of with in 24 hours.

I've never had a puffers death impact a tank because I've always removed them in time. I'm not saying it is going to happen, just acknowledging the potential risk.

I really don't agree with many parts of this list. My main concern is that most of the fish listed for the 20 and 30g tanks will outgrow their tanks. A flame hawk in a 20g tank? And more importantly, why is there a minimum and ideal guideline?? We all should be keeping our fish in "ideal" environments. Remember, 99% of saltwater fish were robbed from the ocean. We have to respect the life we are housing and give it the best environment we can. I'm not trying to be righteous but if people want lots of color in their tank they should focus on corals.

I thought I explained this already at least once, but again, this information is a cumulation of my experience, what is commonly accepted and practiced by other nano reefers, and what is suggested in books by experts. I disagree with your generalization that "most" of the fish listed in the 20g and 30g category will out grow their tanks. That is your opinion. I am totally receptive if you want to make specific suggestions and/or I'd be glad to take a closer look at particular issues you see for particular fish. However, I'm not going to just go change a whole tank size category of fish based on your opinion.

Again, I am trying to be a reasonable person. Some people follow the rules, while some people (especially those who are more experienced) tend to fly closer to the wire with things. I am simply trying to make this guide work for a variety of people. A minimum tank size sort of says bottom of the line, this is the smallest tank you should put this in. The ideal tank size however, is more directed to the average joe and new joe to give them give them advice that will help ensure success.

Don't listen to them....This is one of the best threads ever.

Boxfish are in the family Ostraciidae, and Puffers are Tetraodontidae. Calling boxfish a type of puffer is like calling a firefish a type of cichlid. Boxfish and puffers are under the same order (Tetraodontiformes), but it is wholly incorrect, as alluded to above, to refer to boxfish as a type of puffer.

A couple of other things to point out here RE puffers and toxicity... many puffers, especially Tetraodon, lose their toxin quite quickly after entering captivity for reasons not fully understood, though it is likely that it has to do with a certain food they no longer recieve in captivity. Therefore, even eating the puffer may not poison fish, so why should it's dead body? I do not think there is even a single instance of a puffer dying/stressing and poisoning the tank as they simply lack this ability. Boxfish do it all the time but their toxin is of a different variety; "ostracitoxin", as opposed to puffers' tetrodotoxin, and the method of synthesis is quite different.

...

As regards to the rest of the list, I find it to be fairly well done. I personally do not keep fish in under five gallons, but I think that people will find success following this list; for instance, clown gobies have reportedly been bred in tanks as small as a couple gallons. Fish breeding is a fairly indisputable piece of evidence that they are happy, in my opinion.