Hi,

I originally saw a thread on RC about some DIY 13-sided High-Performance Reflectors. These refelctors have a "Diamond" design that is proven to be much more efficient at reflecting light. The problem is that commercially, these are only available in huge sizes (18.5"x18.5", designed for 400w/1000w Metal Halides). There is nothing anywhere near the size that would be ideal for a nano with a 70w or 150w HQI.

The DIY thread on RC gave plans for making the full size reflectors, and even suggested using a solar tube material from Home Depot or Lowes, due to it's highly reflective nature. It still requires precision cutting, and is not the cleanest DIY project ever, although it does work great.

I decided to see what it would cost to get these machined, so all you would have to do is bend them and pop in the rivets, and I am still waiting on a quote, but I believe I could get kits done where all you would have to do is bend the metal and rivet it into place for around $25/reflector. Yes, this is more expensive per reflector than if you got the materials at HD or Lowes, but it comes out as a much cleaner job. If people didn't want to invest in the tools to rivet and bend the metal (about another $20-$30), I would do it for an additional $10/reflector.

I am not trying to sell these here right now, I just want to know who would purchase these if they were available, so I know if it's worth getting them machined, which is pretty expensive, unless the quantities are large enough (I'm trying to see if the quantities exist).

If you're interested, post here, or PM me, or something, so I know if there are the numbers out there to get these things machined.

I have posted pictures below of the version I made from HD/Lowes materials, for those who want to know what it may look like. I'm sorry for the small size and not-so-good quality. I had to take them with my cameraphone, which is not a great camera by any means. The dimensions of the finished reflector are about 7 3/4"L x 7 3/4"W x 4"tall. The machined one if there is enough interest to get them made would include all holes for 1/8" rivets, and pre-cut slots to fit a 70w MH lamp holder/bracket.

Thanks,
~Brian Ciarimboli
NR User: thebrian
nanoreef AT thebrian DOT net

Pictures:

Is there a channel in the bottom to put some glass in it?

IF there is a mounting for the UV glass, I would try one out as well as put down a deposit.

Would that bad boy fit a 150W halide as well?

I would be interested with a 150w HQI

Yes, 3 of the bottom 4 sides are folded over to fit a piece of UV glass in. If someone can give me dimensions on a 150w bracket, I can measure to see if it would fit. My guess is it still would fit, but the ends of the bulb (the parts that don't light up) would be sticking through the slots, and the bracket itself would be outside the slots. The dimenstions I would need for the 150w bracket would be the lenth between teh 2 end caps, how tall each endcap is, and how many screw holes there are, and where those holes are located.

Thanks,
~Brian

From what I remember of the thread, weren't these patented? (i.e. you make them, sell them, & get sued). These are the Luminarc brand reflectors. This is pertty much the reason the thread got locked and pictures pulled. I think there was question on wther it was actually patented or just patent pending though. RC search is down at the moment

They're available here for pretty cheap(regular sized ones): http://www.propertyroom.com/cgi-bin/ncomme...895249&gallery=

ACtually, found this info: Seems Undertheradar found that and posted the above on RC.

Yeah, I remember that thread...but the lumenarc 3's are designed for Mogul bulbs w/o a sheild. Making one for DE bulbs might be a way around that patent since nothing PGS has is for DE bulbs. Its an improvement on the idea, and worthy of its own patent in that respect. Great idea too I might add. Although its obviously using the lumenarc 3 series as its design base, it improves upon it enough that it might be free entirely from patent.

This is the exact reason why I started the patent process on my DIY skimmers...it wasnt so much to hog the design rights, but so that in case AquaC decided to sue over the patent, that issue could be hashed out legally in the patent process with little damage. This is a reason for many patents that are filed...not so much for design rights, as much as just giving notice and a chance to others with similar designs to contest it if they have a problem...and if they dont speak up then...your free & clear down the road. This is one of those situations.

When PGS contacted me with the patent info, they cited possible lost income as their primary motivation for agressively protecting the patent. In this case, there would be no similar product being made by PGS that fills the DE bulb segment...so its not as though thebrian would be taking away profits from PGS as nobody could buy a DE reflector from PGS anyways.

The only way to know for sure would be to contact PGS and ask. Ill leave that up to thebrian if he wants, otherwise count me in for one.

I'm not even really looking to make money on this. I'll pretty much just be covering my costs for the most part, unless there was a huge interest in it. I'm doing this mostly so I could have some nicer machined reflectors for myself, in a nano size. I couldn't do this if I didn't have other people interested, because the cost increases greatly with the small quantities. The lowest number that is cost effective at all pretty much is 10 reflectors. The reflectors PGS sells don't come in a nano size, or DE, so I'm not even in their market, and have not intention to get into with larger reflectors or single ended bulbs. I'm not even trying to make money.

I was told that the real reason the thread on RC got pulled though is because they were a sponsor, and also the name of the PGS reflector was used in the thread, and that name is trademarked. I don't think I'll pursue a patent on this just because the costs would be too much, and also, this will in all likelyhood be a one time run. I'm not doing this as a business venture...more like a group buy, where I'll assemble for an extra fee.

Anyone have the dimensions on the 150w bracket yet? I suppose I could email a place that supplies them and find out, but I think it would be faster if someone here could just measure one.

~Brian

Oh, and UTR, I sent you a PM on a different thing. Did you ever get it?

~Brian

The 150W bulbs are about an inch longer then the 70W flavor. Exact dimensions? Not sure.

I have a spare 150w bulb for my pendant. I will see if it appears that the bulb would fit through the slots once I get a chance. The reflector is not with me currently though.

~Brian

I would be interested in 2 of these if they would fit a 150 bulb.

Just an update...I should have a quote for sure by the end of the day tomorrow on how much this is going to cost, although I'm 90% sure right now the original $25 figure will be it, unless I get a lower quote in on the last day. Also, I'm still waiting for a supplier to get back to me on 150w brackets, on if the screw holes in them are the same spacing as the screw holes on their 70w brackets. From this same supplier, I could get 70w brackets for $10 and 150w brackets for $12, and he'll give us a discount if we get at least 10. Also, once I am sure I have the lowest quote in, I will have to call them to verify the materials and finishing process they are using to make sure it is reflective enough, and also find out what date they could have it done by for sure. The absolute latest they're aloud to have it done by, by the terms of the quote would be October 21st, but I'm guessing that with this small size job they could have it sooner. They didn't specify a date. I think we have enough to go through with it once the quotes are finalized, but I'm asking that everyone that wants to participate in this PM me with how many they want. Provided this gets to the point of production, I will be requiring a deposit (probably $15 for each reflector) to insure that I don't get screwed over by someone saying they want one, then not paying. This amount is below my costs anyways, and the balance would be payable before I ship, once the items are in hand and ready to ship. If for some reason deposits were made, and the production doesn't go through, I would refund everyone 100% of their deposit.

I'm putting this out there now, but I'm not at the stage where I would take these deposits yet. Once I know the date when production would be finished, and verify that the materials will be adequate, I will begin taking deposits, and once there is enough, place the order.

Thanks to everyone interested,
~Brian

reading this concern about their patent makes me sick. this guy is offering a product at cost and its not even for sale by anybody. If the company did sue for loss of income they would only have right to his gain. So since he is making nothing, I say bull.

Anyway, wondering about the 250 watt size?

Do you have measurements on a 250w bulb? I'd need the height and length to see if it fit. I'd also need the length of the fat part of the bulb. As far as bracket mounting, I'm sure that would fit, although you might have to make different screw holes. The key factor would be if the bulb wold fit through the slots.

~Brian

Now a 250watt DE version would really interest me as well...but you have to make the bulb height adjustable like in the SE ones for coverage manipulation.

Making the bulb height adjustable creates an entirely new problem though, as you have to cut the material more, and also, you can't have the bracket on the outside of the reflector, which means it is blocking the center of the middle panel. The middle panel is the most important one in terms of the reflection as it is right behind the bulb.

I just talked to the guy that quoted me, and the materials seemed to be fine, and he said that their aluminum comes in very reflective. He also said that they could probably push it through before the end of September if I got the order in soon enough. I'm just now waiting to tie up some loose ends about the 150w and 250w brackets, and making sure they/their bulbs would fit before we take this further.

~Brian

Ok, the 70w and 150w are definately a go. The place I got my 70w bracket from doesn't carry 250w brackets though - just 70w and 150w. As far as a 250w, I'm sure it could work, but you'd have to provide your own bracket. Also, the screw holes for your bracket may or may not line up with the screw holes in the reflector like they would with the 70w and 150w. I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't have to cut any more out of the slots in the reflector if you used a 250w, but I can't be positive, because I don't have any 250w bulbs on hand. I will check and see if anyone local has one I can measure to find out for sure.

If you still are interested in getting in on this (whether or not you've responded to this thread), PM me so I can get information on your part of the order.

We need at least 10 of these to make the minimum for the quote. It is vital that those interested PM me soon so I know if we have the minimum, and the total number to order.

~Brian

Did we come to a conclusion about glass?

3 of the 4 sides have an edge folded over to slide glass into. It would be best to get glass cut after you have an assembled reflector, so you are sure it fits. The way the design is, there can be slight variations in assembled dimensions, based on how it's assembled, so you should wait until it's all riveted together to measure it for glass.

~Brian

Brian, I am interested about getting in on this deal. I would like one for a 250 watt application.

I found the dimensions of the bases of the mounts as well as a nominal size for the bulb.
Base:
Approx individual socket dimensions: 1 3/4" high, 1 1/2" long, 1 7/8" wide socket base.
Bulb:
6 3/8" L x 1"W x 1 1/8" H
[img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/lamps-now_1858_962108[/img]

That is the socket that I found at hellolights.com.

Ok so here is my personal info. I am interested in one reflector, and would pay the extra 10 for you to rivet it together. I can provide the socket and bases, unless you run across some while doing footwork.

I will try and rally up some more interest from other people that I know might be interested.

By the way thanks for thinking this up, it couldn't have come at a better time. I was about ready to try and start building one myself, but I don't have the bender or a rivet gun handy.

PMing you Whitten. I need a couple more specific dimensions on the bulb to be sure it will fit. I just checked the 150w, and it is barely going to squeeze in. The 250w would probably not fit, but the hole could be enlarged to fit it.

Just to be clear, the 250w bulb will work with this, the bulb slots will just need to be larger in all likelyhood. I am also considering having the machine shop just make larger slots, but all the reflectors have to be the same, and the 70 and 150's wouldn't need larger slots, so there would be excess open space in slots. I don't think this would affect the performance of the reflector with the smaller bulbs, however, because the end caps would be there interfering with the reflection on that side anyways. Once I know for sure that we have enough people, based on how many of each wattage we have, I will size the slots optimally for the mix of wattages people want.

Great Job Brian, you are really busting your hump for us on this and it is much appreciated. Shot a PM back at ya in reguards to more sizes.

TTT

TTT

Ok. We need to figure out if this is happening in the next few days. I'm PMing everyone who posted they were interested in the thread. I can't see who responded to the poll, so if you're interested and didn't post, PM me. If we get enough to make a minimum order, we'll do it, if not, we won't.

~Brian

Are you still talking $25 for the reflector itself?

I will take 150W version if it does get done.

To be clear:
Reflector (unassembled): $25 (does not include rivets or tools for assembly)
Assembly: $10
70w Bracket: $10
150w Bracket: $12

~Brian

now, it will be square?
or can it be designed as rectangle?

As any time frame?

Thanks

10/4 I will be doing the 35$ deal so that I don't have to do any assymbly

this may be a dumb question, but can these reflectors be used as is or should I build a box for it?

Ok, I'm planning on ordering on Friday. I still don't have quite 10 for sure, but I can hopefully sell the rest at the upcoming frag swap if I can have them here on time. If you want one of these, come out of the woodwork now. I'm emailing/pming those buying with deposit information now.

~Brian

Recommend building a box, for aesthetic reasons.

Spoke to the machine shop today, and estimated shipment on the reflector parts to me is end September or beginning October. I'll update everyone once I know more. I'll be ordering the brackets in a week or so, so if anyone wants some brackets (70w DE $10, 150w DE $12), I can add you to the order, and you'd just have to pay actual shipping from me to you, which would be pretty cheap (I can toss it in a small box and send it parcel post really cheap). Obviously, if you're getting a reflector, I would just ship it with that.

~Brian

It sounds very interesting but I just some questions. What are the dimensions on the 70w version especially how deep is it. What type of material are you constructing it out of? Do you have any evidence of its performance vs. other manufactured reflectors for example those made by PFO? In addition, what kind of warrantees do you offer and what will be your return policy. Do you have a picture of the final version you are planning on selling.

This is a reflector that hasn't been talked about much over here in the Nano Forums but has been huge over at Reef Central.

If you are interested in what others are saying about this type reflector, do a search at Reef Central for a Lumenarc reflector, or for Pacific Garden Supply.

PM sent

pm sent also,
wondering if we can still get in on this? reflectors only.

Zac

PM's sent back. Material is highly reflective aircraft grade aluminum. I've made these by hand before, but not with machined parts. I posted a picture earlier in the thread of what the one made by hand looks like, and the ones made with machined parts should look even better. This is not a product I am selling as a product; it is more of a group buy so that we can get the machined parts. Without a group purchase, the costs on this would be too great, since machining parts is expensive unless done in large quantity. For that reason, the only warranties would be related to shipping damage and covered by the insurance on the shipping. This design is pretty well proven effective though.

The reason I am actually doing this instead of buying them commercially is because this design reflector is not available commercially in a nano size, or for double ended bulbs. Otherwise, this would likely be a thread in the classifieds for a group buy on reflectors of this design and size, from the company that makes them (which there is none right now that makes this design in this size).

~Brian

PM SENT

Sent deposit for one, may get another if you have 1 more left, let me know.

zac

Looks good when can we expect shipping to start?

Yes, please update us.

Did the parts comeback from machine shop?


Thanks

Hey Brian just wanted to let you know that I tried PM'ing you and your box is full.

How are they comming? Did the machine shop ever get done or are they acting like a typical machine shop?

This is kind of old at this point, but I think I have shipped out everything from anyone on nano-reef that was in on this (a while ago at that). If anyone did not receive their package, let me know, and I should be able to track it down (although according to the post office, they were all received).

I still get a few emails and PMs from people asking if I am going to do this again, or if there are still any available. For those of you that are reading this and wondering that, probably not. It was a lot more work than I anticipated, and when I started this idea, I wasn't working (just out of school), and before any of it was really completed, I was working over 60 hours a week. That, and I estimated that it wouldn't take nearly as long to assemble these as it did. They are great reflectors, and definately worth the money and time if you can DIY, but I just don't have the time right now. If anyone does want any of the plans, CAD drawings, or info on where I got them machined, etc, fell free to email me( nano-reef AT thebrian DOT net ), and I will oblige. I will also provide advice if you are doing these completely from scratch (sheet metal like a sun tube extension from HD or Lowes, which is the way I originally made mine). It really doesn't take that long to do a couple of these, but when you are doing a dozen, it all adds up.

~Brian