Hey SH,

I read all about your 24G Refugium, and I was wondering if you thought it would be possible to do it with a 12G. Given the size difference and all.. I was also courious where you found the light ect.. How is your's worken out for ya? Still going strong?
Well thanks for all your imput on this and other great things you have posted here.
Great Tank and Great Thread man!

soj

To Sojurn..my submersible light has been keeping my chaeto alive, but, after a few months now, the lighting is probably just marginal. there has been some chaeto regression. I have dropped the light lower into the fuge to see if it makes a difference. If I were starting out anew, check out the DIY LED light post and see how they are doing. FYI, no one will know for sure in the immediate period if their DIY's will work. The final word comes out in the long run....weeks to a few months.

My tubastrea have finally opened on their own in the tank:





SH

Ahh ok thanks SH I'll check out that post.. Thanks for your quick reply. Grats on your tubastrea opening up! Keep up the good work I look forward to further posts..

soj

Having a run of bad luck. The good news is that my order from LA arrived today. I'm telling ya that they can almost do no wrong by me. Here is the favites, pineapple coral, acclimating:



Unfortunately, the yashe goby doesn't look like he is going to make it although the randalls pistol shrimp did. This guy is struggling:



I'm not sure if the pistol shrimp will survive without the goby for protection. Unfortunately, when I notified LA about the fish, they told me that they were now out of stock. SH

Hey There SH,

Great Favia you got from LA. I like the green w/ yellowish trim there. I know that coral will love it in your tank.

I hope your Yasa makes it. His colors look really good in the pick, so maybe it's a stress thing and he's just resting on his side and not looking into the tunnel at a bright light in the end of it LOL!

Keep us posted on his status. I do hope he makes it.. I would see if LA will replace him instead of going to your LFS for a watchman.

Great work there my friend, great work.
TrekBear

sorry to hear about your original firefish. Let us know if your yasa makes it also. tank is looking good none the less.

WOW! This thread is amazing! I'm new to this forum and only a few months into the aquarium thing. This has already started my modifications to my 24 NC. I removed all the stuff from the back and am going to get seagel and chemipure to get back there along with LR rubble and chaeto for chamber two. I ordered the hydor flo and a MJ 1200 tonight. Is there a good source online for the LR rubble? None of my LFS have any... as a last resort can i just buy a few pounds of it and break it up into rubble myself or would that be a no-no? LOL. Thank you SOOOOOO much SH for all of the tips and ideas that you have spawned in my mind for my NC!! You are AWESOME!

Jordan

LOL..thanks NorCalTRD...no problem....do exactly what you said above...buy the cheapest LR you can find, then break it up with a hammer into golfball sized pieces or smaller. If not, Premiumaquatics sells LR rubble.

The Yashia is still alive this morning...I'm keeping him netted off since he still does not look in the best of shape. I have put some cardboard above his area to keep the lights off him. SH

For those that don't already know, there is a fascinating symbiosis that occurs between two saltwater animals, a type of shrimp called a pistol shrimp, named because of a clicking sound the shrimp makes when threatened, and a particular type of goby called a watchman. This symbiosis is best seen with the Randalls banded pistol shrimp and the Yashia Haze goby.

The goby, which has excellent vision defends the cave that the pistol shrimp and goby live in. The shrimp, which has poor vision, brings food back to the cave to share with the goby and maintains the cave. The shrimp will even close up the cave at night which will be reopened in the morning by the goby as it exits.

Well, I ordered these two pair for my tank over the internet. Both arrived yesterday. The shrimp was great, however, the goby appeared near death while acclimating:



I released the pistol shrimp after he acclimated but 'quasi quarantined' the goby in netting. I thought he was going to die and didn't want it to get lost in the live rock and contaminate the tank. Well, this morning the goby looked better, but not moving. This evening it appeared upright and was moving it's gills. I decided to release it.

The goby swam and floundered a bit, but, eventually stayed upright in the tank:



My sixline even came up to check out the new addition:



Wouldn't you know it...the goby made it's way to the left side of the tank where there was a pile of sand near the rock. The pistol had dug a cave. The goby found it, the pistol came out and 'assisted' the goby into the hole. The pistol is 'tending' to the goby now who is making a push for survival. Life is amazing. SH

That is an amazing story and told so well with text and pictures. Interesting post, as always, SH.

OK..whose been sleeping in MY bed. I found my blue hermit crab crawling around in a margarita shell today. Hmmmmmmm......SH

OK..whose been sleeping in MY bed. I found my blue hermit crab crawling around in a margarita shell today. Hmmmmmmm......SH

Follow up...what's the penalty for theft???





No sign of the Randall's, no clicking, no sign of the Yashia, although, I think I am seeing sand rearranged near where they were seen last.

Gorgonian is still alive. Woo hoo. SH

5 weeks in the pump chamber! Lock him up! O, and shouldn't a murder charge be tacked onto that for killing the snail? Sounds like a life sentence, 1 count 1st degree murder, one count grand theft shell! Unless you want to make a hermit crab elsctric chair .

I don't know what you should really do, i'm sure you'll think up a fitting solution.

BTW, your tank looks great, and on a personal update 1 week from wendsday i'm taking a road trip to premium aquatics for my LR!

WTG.....keep me posted and let me know when you crank it up. Good luck and welcome aboard...seems like you did a lot of research. WTG. SH

Thanks SH, i have everything except the LR, and a substrate. My RO/DI came in yesterday, and all my other remaining hardware came in today. I'll try to post some pics tomorrow or friday, the digital camera that i have access to is very old, and it's giving me a few headaches, but i'll give it a try.

Hi..this morning I found my ocellaris trapped between the cassette skimmer and the grate. Fortunately he was alive. I lost a firefish last week from the same problem. I am going to change over to Stoney Waters skimmer mod. I think Doriftu's cassette skimmer mod was absolutely innovative. It's just not working well for me with regards to livestock. Anyway, I have some plastic I'm going to tool around with later and switch skimmer mods. SH

I am up to page 22 and there is no way this thead is going on page 2 a must read for someone thinking set up a nano. For some noobies like me must get this info. Did I say Thank you. If not Thanks

No problem Debbeach...welcome aboard. If you are plowing thru this thread, first, I give you a lot of credit, and, second, you're gonna do great...not because of this thread, but, because you're doing the research. Ready to help out when needed. SH

So....after that....update:

1) Purple gorgonian is still alive...go figure under stock lighting
2) I think my new brain is withering (favites). Although I see green in the cenral polyps, I can see the peripheral (?) corallites showing. Might be a no survival claim to LA.
3) Yashia haze and banded pistol are still alive. Funny..haven't heard any snapping noises.
4) Ditched the cassette skimmer...too dangerous...fish get trapped in it. Lost my firefish in it and the firefish that replaced it, uh, well...(cough)..doesn't have the same personality as the first one (did a mature guy just type that????) LOL. Saw it twice since acclimating...don't know how it is still alive. I never see it eat.
5) Added 2 Blue ricordea from Old_Diver on Ebay. Again...he tossed in extra stuff and extra cleanup crew (he tossed in a handful of astreas...not bad).

Will takes pix of the withering brain and the new blues when I get a sec. SH

wow sorry to hear about your problems with the cassette, i'm sure the other option will work much better for you livestock wise, i've never had a problem with any of my other livestock (firefish or clown) getting stuck in there, however, my blenny did find his way in there once prior (before the tank crashed and he subsequently died).

Hope your new brain pulls through, be sure to post some pics of it. I'm actually nursing a red open brain back to full health that i picked up at the lfs the other day, when i got it the colors were looking faded etc. I've had it just over a week + and its already showing signs of improvement, colors becoming more vibrant and somewhat bleeched areas showing color. I've been alternating target feeding and it seems to be very responsive to that. (fresh shrimp cut up, brine shrimp, cyclopeeze and even some formula one)

Thanks Doriftu...I still think your cassette mod was one of the most popular and innovative 'mods' here and will go down in 'nano history' here. I moved my brain to a higher area and am playing around with position right now to see if that makes a difference. It was on the substrate and now a 1/3rd higher with higher flow. We'll see.

I think it's amazing what you guys chop up and put in your tank. Geez, if I even break a HALF cube of mysis up it bumps my nitrates. SH

Well i tend to be very careful when target feeding. I try to only get and leave what i'm actually feeding. Sometimes its difficult to even keep the hermits and even pods from stealing the food. I've actually watched a group of pods run up and steal food from the brain. Another time a hermit attempted to do so, lets just say that was the last time he ever did that

Hey SH, I started a thread about this, but i thought i'd ask you since you have the same RO/DI as me. Did you have any problems with the PH of the ro water? My PH goes from 7.8 out of the tap, to 8.8+ from the RO/DI, salt mix, and buffer didn't lower it any. The test kit is acurate, my cichlid tank reads 8.2, and so does the kit at work, havent tested my ro water with the test kit at work yet, but I will test it on tuesday.

GJones..that's strange. If anything, the water can tend to come out as acidic, hence, when you aerate it, the pH can come up..but...mine comes out as 7.0, sg 1.000, 0 nitrates. You might need a TDS meter (total dissolved solids) to check and see if it is working well. Is it connected correctly??? Take a pic of your lines and let's have a look. SH

Some updated coral photos for others curious about what can survive under stock NC lighting:

Ricordea florida, has split into three polyps



Euphyllia ancora, hammer coral



Acanthastrea echinata



Cladiella sp (?spaghetti finger leather), needs fragging



tubipora musica, Organ Pipe



Pterogorgia sp., Purple Gorgonian, Purple Sea Whip



Zoanthids, button polyps, blue ricordea



Just a few pix. It CAN be done. If expense and time are issues with regards to having an SPS tank, you can still have a colorful and aesthetic marine aquarium if you work at it. SH

(disclaimer. all shots were taken in my POS basement/cat toilet, or workshop portion of basement and do not reflect the clenliness, or sanitaryness of the rest of my house, or the people in it. Yes that is lead paint, yes the pipes coming into the house are lead, and yes the pipes after those are copper, thus the RO/DI)

My water params out of the ro is PH-8.8+ SG-1.000 PO4-0 Nitrate-0 Copper-0 TDS-?? i don't have a tds meter.










My house psi (150 sumthin psi)


My fuge being siliconed into my tank.


Temporary LR curing tank, until 29gal silicone is cured.

hu, just read the whole thread. (4 days!!) Thanks for your work, Steelhealr!
I wish you the best for your tank, it looks wonderful. Keep on!



I will start a mini tank (~14 us-gal.) soon on my own..we'll see, im new to SW but well experienced in FW (discus and more).

Gjones..strange...your connections look fine. You know what? Have you made a bucket of RO...checked params before...then aerated...then recheck? without salt mix added? Try it next time you make SW. Maybe be can figure it out. The only other thought is that the resin in the DI chamber looks half full...wonder if some of the RO water is sneaking by by not passing thru the resin???

To Markus...WTG and thanks. This thread is here to help people start a marine aquarium in their home with input from others who pop in. Good luck and post back when you are up and running. SH

The resin chamber is full, just alot of it is already exhautted(I made less 20 gallons, I must have really bad water) I left some ro water out overnight to oxygenate, and it's still 8.8+, but i hooked up the unit this morning, let it run for a while, flushed the membrane, tested the ph, and the ph is lower! It's down to just above 7.0! maybe my di resin needed a longer break in time, i'll mix some salt water, and change out some of the water in my curing tank.

..also..if it's new, you need to flush it for awhile. Good news anyway gjones.

Interesting stuff:
1) My Hawaiian feather duster dumped it's crown. I've read about this before and implies stress or inadequate food. Some people have written that you really have to dump a ton of plankton in there to keep them alive. It's tough now as the sun corals have pushed my nitrates up to the 10-15 range.



2) Finally nabbed him...yashia lives. Go yashia:





So, maintaining certain animals is not often easy in this little system. Pick wisely. SH

Hey SH,
Nice Gobie! Also, I like the individual shots of all your coral on the previous page. Do you have a recent FTS? Also, my little clown got trapped in my cassette skimmer a couple of days ago.

Hey Lim...glad you 'stopped by'. Be careful....the cassette skimmer can trap fish. I need to do an updated FTS. SH

SH,
I have another question for you. Does your pistol shrimp ever move your corals around? Mine is constantly moving rocks twice his size. He's like an ant! He uses them to hold back the sand that clogs his holes. He uses his claws as shovels and can move a lot of sand. The only problem with moving my rocks is they have Rics and shrooms on them and he always turns them over. I have a tiger pistol shrimp and I think he is probably full grown. He looks like a small Lobster. He used to attack my turkey baster which was kinda fun but he is now used to it. What's even funnier is the way the Gobie sits like a litte Bulldog keeping watch as the shrimp bulldozes.

So far...I have no big rocks to move, but, he moved shells, some macro (a small piece of halimeda) and small 'sand boulders'. I swear it looks exactly like a snowthrower when he is moving sand. SH

SH your thread has been so imformative, I was looking at any size of JBJ Nano until i read your post. Then I decided on the 24 just like you. Then I got punched in the gut along with you when your crack appeared. I have since started looking for a nice acylic tank. I would like for it to be as close to the JBJ as it could be (I love the clean look of the Cube). I am looking into a tank with a Ecosystem 40 filter. Has anyone heard anything about these, their site says that a protein skimmer is not needed. I also have a couple of questions

Should a tank be a certain distance from electronic devices because of salt creep?, my LFS told me this.

Can you use the Ecosystem 40 as a refugerium without their magical mud ?

Is there a great website or thread that explains lighting and the differnt kinds available for tanks?

Is there one place other than this forum with a "guide" from start to finish that explains cycling, LR, LS, adding corals, all of the parameters to watch ex. PH, salt, nitrates.... , I mean everything for a tank. I am sure there are books, but I'm more or less looking for a detailed checklist, like I used when flying planes, A sort of preflight for the fish.

Thanks all who have contributed to this thread, I would still have no idea where to start without the information provided here.

Thanks
Levi

Hi Levon.....welcome aboard. First the easy questions. Any aquarium must be 'protected' to protect YOU when water comes near electricity. Think of any catastrophic aquarium failure and then judge where you want to place the aquarium. I certainly would give it a little bit of distance from your stereo equipment eg. What I consider absolute aquarium MUSTS:

1) water test the tank for leaks
2) Install a GFI outlet near the tank....shuts electrical down if water comes near it
3) Keep the surge protector off the floor
4) use drip loops

As for saltkreep, it can be sneaky. I didn't know that everytime I lifted my hood up, some water was going down the back of the stand. I had a 'salt trail' back there.

As for lighting, this is always one of the most difficult areas in marine systems because there is just so much darn stuff out there. Just have to keep on reading to get a feel for it. Read the two books I linked to on the first page to get a feel, Paletta and Kurtz...and read this forum's lighting articles. It's a tough area. One outline to figure it out:
1) Decide on what you want to keep in your tank...FOWLR, low light corals, SPS, etc and what lighting they require
2) Decide on what tank size you are going with
3) Estimate the lighting requirements and then what light type you want....PC's, metal halide, T5's, combined
4) research the fixture that will fit your tank.

As for 'one place' on this forum, well, that was the impetus for this thread. You know who else has a fantastic one? Lgreen http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...recommendations
This whole forum 'has the answer' if you search things out. Start with Paletta's and Kurtz's book..these two threads...should cover a lot of ground.

Finally, I had to look up your Ecosystem 40. It looks like it could function as a hang on refugium if you put a light over it. You wouldn't have to use miracle mud, IMO, why not some LR ? Otherwise, I don't have much experience with that type of filter..but...looks like a reasonable refugium. SH

hey SH, started my own thread today, and i got my LR and other stuff today, handpicked all of it. Premnium Aquatics rules!

hey SH, started my own thread today, and i got my LR and other stuff today, handpicked all of it. Premnium Aquatics rules!

OK...gonna check it out and add it to my thread list. (Meet the Parents: I'm ....watching......you.....LOLOL. You're now IN the circle). SH

OK...gonna check it out and add it to my thread list. (Meet the Parents: I'm ....watching......you.....LOLOL. You're now IN the circle). SH

Hi guys.. read entire thread in the past couple of days.. GREAT thread!! I'm a newbie with 24G DX (or whatever the latest model is). I wish I had stumbled on this thread before!

Anyways, though I've never had any sort of fish tank before, I've been reading a lot. I plan to have a nice reef with fish like you guys

I don't think I've screwed up -yet- but am hoping to get some advice from you guys.

Here's my set up:

RO/DI
24G Nano Cube w/ nanocustoms modded hood 108W lighting / ICA chiller / Icecap 5W LED
12G Sump w/ ETSS Protein Skimmer (not running - plan to only run as necessary in future)
Additional thermoelectric chiller/heater in sump to keep temp at 75 F
Auto top-off

I've been running only SW in tank for 3 months - I travel a lot and did not want to add anything until I could monitor the tank daily for 3 weeks straight, plus I wanted to make sure that all the equipment was running smoothly.

Added LR/LS 6 days ago - got "The Package" from tbsaltwater.com (which had gotten good reviews as far as I read).

There is quite a bit of life on the rocks - I can't recognize it all but I have identified 2 feather dusters, 2 cerith snails, a small anemone-looking creature (haven't removed it) and lots of plant life including fuzzy fingers and halimeda. There is lots of color on the rocks and new growth keeps appearing.

tbsaltwater shipped a brown packet of "seed bacteria" that they told me to put in with the LR/LS. I did.

Here's my cycling problem: I've been testing Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrate at least twice DAILY and have not seen any spikes at all in any of them. My water parameters are: Temp 74 - 76 F, SG 1.024, PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0. Should I add cleaning crew or a fish or should I wait until I see spikes or algae growth on the walls or substrate?

Hi jabesnyder and welcome aboard. As I understand it, TBS ships their LR 'fresh' out of the water and supposedly has a low die off. I'd wait another day of so and if you don't have any spike, I would think you are cycled. And..for heaven's sake...stop testing twice a day....LOLOL....save your money for livestock instead of testing supplies.

S.G. is OK...I started at 1.024 and keep mine at 1.026.

I'd bring temp up, JMO, 78-79 degrees

If your params are still zero, and you got stuff to 'munch on' in there, I'd go ahead and start to add your cleanup crew. SH

SH, thanks very much. That is what I will do! I read somewhere that keeping temps low helps to prevent algae blooms (actually oregonreef.com which I very much admire) but I do think it is a good idea to raise the temps for the initial cycling. You have obviously caught on that I am itching to do things to my tank.. it takes all the discipline I've got not to test it 3 times / day!!!

Keep up the great work and I'll post pics when I get somewhere.

WTG....remember the line...beauty happens slowly, disaster happens quickly. TAKE YOUR TIME and resist the urge to make the classic newb mistakes of tossing stuff in there too early. I didn't add my first coral for over a month...tank needs to mature but MORE IMPORTANTLY..it's sorta like getting a new car or taking up a new sport..you gotta get a feel for the tank/maintenance/ etc. Better to screw up and lose five snails than $100 worth of coral. Unlike a FW tank (IMO), crashing this baby is a painful frustrating event.

As for the temp, there is a lot of conflicting data out there. If you read RShimek, he feels low 80's is better (actual reef temps average low 80s, 79)and that lower temps stress fish and inverts. Others feel the lower temp is better. Oceanic s.g. is about 1.026....others feel lower s.g helps reduce risk of disease. It's an art. Pick a setpoint and see how your fish and corals do. If it works for you, stick with it. SH

Thanks for creating an informative thread, it helped me out alot.

No problem Weezer. SH

Awesome info!!!
I just upgraded my 7g cube to a 12g Nano JBJ
My False Perc loves it so far.
Will post some pics soon. Your thread is very informative.

WTG Neon....come back and definitely post some pix here when you are up and running.


..I was finally able to capture what happens between these two animals and it's interesting . As mentioned above, the pistol shrimp maintains the cave but has poor eyesight. The shrimp retrieves food and shares it with the Yashia Haze goby. The goby in turn protects the pistol and keeps guard. I was able to finally catch a few pix (not the greatest):

In the first pic, the goby emerges and in front of the pectoral fin you can see a claw emerging:



Second pic the pistol emerges but remains in contact with the goby:



Pistol continues to work on the cave carrying debris out:



When the pistol returns, the goby turns crosswise against the cave to block it off and protect the pistol:



Cool stuff. SH

That is truly amazing. If I ever get my act together and find out all the info, and collect enough funds, I will be happy if all i get are these two creatures to watch and enjoy.

Are they the best combo fish/shrimp to watch or are there even more interesting combinations of animals working in teams to keep in a salt tank.

Thanks for sharing SH

Levi