I ordered one battery powered air pump (hagen).
Then I cracked it open and cut one of the white wires...
used wire hats to splice the leads of one of those 'el-cheepo' float-switches.net buggers...they are not rated for 110AC, but a couple of 'D' batteries is well under that. A good rule of thumb is that if the wires on the device are smaller that what you are trying to splice it into...chances are it isnt rated for it, and prolonged use of these float-switches on 110 is a fire hazard...plain and simple. The wiring on the inside of the battery air pump is the same as the float switch's leads...a perfect match.

Since the battery pump has a clip on it that fits 1/4", i figured that it would be pretty cool just to mount it all together, so I made a harness for the switch itself with a scrap of masonite cut 3/4" x 2"...bolted a 3/4" PVC pipe band to it and ran the PVC through. Then I put a 1/4" hole in a 3/4" endcap to mount the switch through...and then I put it all together. The air line goes to the water res, and the returning water is let go next to the float through the air line that is wedged between the PVC band and the bolt. No extra power cords. No electrical worries. Very small and 'all in one'. Oh, and the cost...

Hagen battery pump, about $6 online.
PVC cap, pipe, band...under $1
float switch...$2
two bolts and nuts...piece of masonite...air line...$pennies
water res (2L Coke Bottle)...free from trash
oh, and 2 old 'D' cell batteries getting too low for the 'Mag-light' yet plenty of juice to run this thing for a year or two...$uh, dunno

So, for less than $10 of random junk, a safe, reliable top-off is made. now all I need to do is add on the snail guard...Geez, I should make these by the dozen and charge $20 each!!

heres a detail of how the wires come out of the side of the pump and down the adjustable-depth float switch mount...

edit Nov 22, 2005. Due to the recent file migration, all the photos in this thread were lost. I am unsure which photos were here before, but I will attach all of the pics at once here and I think you can sort them out.

And heres the inside of the pump...the white wiring is the one I splices the black float switch wires into.

11-22-2005 : More pics below of a newer version that I sold to go directly on a tank

here it is on the side of a HOB sump...to adjust the depth of the float you can simply slide the pipe up and down in it's holder...

The cool thing is that I never really modded much...I could simply remove the float switch, put the wiring back and have the original air pump again. I made a simple pipe mount for the float...and that's it.

Absolutely sweeeeet!

Now I have to find that old battery powered pump and put it to good use! I have had my float switch from them for over three months and done nothing with it. This is the kick in @$$ I needed to use it.

Thanks a bunch!
speakeraddict

Wow! Where do you find a $2 float switch? Very cool! Exactly what I wanted to know.

Yery cool idea but can you please show how you get water out of the bottle?

very nice !

to get the water out of the bottle, make two holes in the cap for some rigid airline tube, put one long piece of tube in so it's near the bottom, this is the water out line. the other piece of airline is short and is the air in. the large plastic sode bottles work great for this as they handle the pressure and seal up pretty easily.

-skeletor-

Dude!!!! thats freak'n sweet, good job.

so how are plug it in air pump people doing their wiring on here, if theya re not moding the extension cord?

want to see some DIY ;-)


matt

Thats the whole point...they arent. The juice going throught a cheap $6 battery powered is much less than the 110 coming out of the wall. The battery powered models are well within the float's specs...the plug in ones aren't. The point here is that plug-in pumps (powerheads and diaphram) exceed the electrical operating capacity of these float switch devices. Either a relay box that reduces the current going through the float is needed, or a reduction in the overall system's operating current is needed...ie: battery powered.

I'll take one for $20.

Yikes! I'm running 110 through a floatswitches.net float switch!!! Anyone have good instructions on how to setup one of these on 12V?

however wet.. look at the specs for floatswitches.net

"Maximum Switching Rate 20W Maximum Switching Voltage 200V Maximum Switching Current "

regardless...


what i meant to ask.. is can one open up a normal airpump, and mod it , to reduce the voltage? rather than the extension cord deal? some one with a meter wana measure the specs on the internal wires of a normal airpump?

Question? Does the air pump have enough power to push water? And have you tested it? I have found you need a powerful air pump to get over the head pressure to push the water out of the container..... LO

Maximum Switching Rate 20W Maximum Switching Voltage 200V Maximum Switching Current 0.6A Contact Withstand Voltage (DC) 250V Contact Resistance 0.3W max Temperature Range 122-F.
- specs from floatswitches.net
those are the specs, yes...note that they are DC rated, not AC. The leads from the floats are in the 20-26 ga. range..and most electronics have at least 18, if not 16ga. wire inside...that should be a good enough indication for most. As of yet, there is no easy way to mod the inside of a plug-in air-pump.
this is the reason that relay boxes are used, and to mod the inside of a diaphram air-pump would involve the same things as just getting a relay box.

Before I go further, the whole point of this was to use cheap little parts...and prevent having 110AC running through your tank. Sure, one could modify a much more expensive AC pump, but why? The battery ones are under $10, and do have plenty of oomph as far as I can tell.

Littleoceans,
Even with the worn out batteries I'm using in it, the pump can push water out of a 2Liter Coke bottle I am using, and up another 3 feet into the tank through that 1/4" diameter air hose.

well, how often are we talking about changing the batts. or how much would it be to wire an AcDc convertor up o a batt airpump?---- my one concern.

i got about 30 gallons of water volume.. and go through roughly 5 gallons of top off in 1.5- 2 weeks or so. plus since it drips into my main tank, i have the air flow restricted. so it is on for probably 10 mins a time. drip by drip

i like the idea of keeping the current away from my tank.. in my studies on this topic a few months ago i overlooked the AC/ DC issue. need to readdress this so i don't fry my tank now..... been goign on 3 monhs with AC power in my tank

In what may seem to be an extreme case, like the one you have listed above, I would be more concerned with burning out the pump more than anything by having it so restricted. Just wondering, what is the reason behind that?

None the less, hooking up an AC/DC converter would appear to be the best solution for unlimited, yet greatly reduced power. As is, I would bet my top-off would work for a year at least, even with half depleted batteries like Im using. Anyone know the voltage on these? I will have to look around, but whatever it is, Im sure I have a converter lying around... I will look into it.

If you're worried about batteries, I'd suggest using rechargables. Actually I haven't researched this. Can you find chargers for those big batteries? Will have to check it out.

Sure, you can find chargers...anyone happen to know the voltage of 2xD-cells?

~3 volts. each standard sized battery (AAA,AA,C,D) falls somewhere between 1.25-1.5 volts

Just found the 1.5V stamp on the batteries this morning...so it looks as though a 3v power converter could be wired in. I think i have one of those laying around....hmmm....I'll have to tinker with that when I get home later...

So is anyone considering making these for profit? I would love to purchase one for the previously suggested price of $20. (Not too much time on my hands in med school to DIY)

Undertheradar- You might want a 1.5volt converter and not a 3volt. I just bought a similar pump from Walmart last night to do the same thing... batteries are in series.. so the voltage stays at 1.5... To test this.. put in one battery and see if the pump works if it does its 1.5..... LO

I have been getting requests to make these at the given price, but I gotta be honest...I dont have alot of time until mid-may when my finals are over (going for masters in EE). But while Im at it, I gotta say, these are dead easy to make... Only two parts to order (float and pump), rest are things you should either have around the house, or find at a hardware store / home depot. The actual time to make one is 5minutes. Hey, dont get me wrong...if everyone is still up on it, wait until may and shoot me an email...Ill have plenty of time then to make a bunch if you all dont mind pre-ordering (so I only order the amount of battery pumps and floats I need...).

Oh, and I suppose 1.5V is what Im looking for, forgot to check if the batteries were parallel or in series. What an embarrasing mistake for an EE to make!!! Sorry, dont happen to have a 1.5V converter at home...no dice...but Im sure it would be an easy conversion for anyone who wanted to do it.

heres a 1.5v adapter...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ssPageName=WD1V

so, i realize this may sound stupid - but where the heck did you get your float switch for $2?


floatswitches.net has them for $6 each, with $3 shipping.... or am i just missing something?

They had some older models on clearance a while ago...10 for $20...same specs as the current ones. I suppose now they are about $5 ea.

I was tinkering with the pump today and realized that the batteries are arranged into a 3v configuration...(not a 1.5V because the batteries for this pump are parallel, not series)

I believe you can get the float switches off ebay at 4 for $20.

yes, or you can go to www.floatswitches.net to purchase one as well.

I want to clarify something here before people get too confused.

I have a aqua clear powerhead 201 - which is 120v/6w


Maximum Switching Rate 20W Maximum Switching Voltage 200V Maximum Switching Current 0.6A Contact Withstand Voltage (DC) 250V Contact Resistance 0.3W max Temperature Range 122-F.

If you are using your Powerhead at 120v/6w, you are way below specifications for the switch and everything should work fine. If you are worried about voltage going through your tank, then you might as well worry about that other powerhead, the heater, etc that is running submerged in your tank as well.

I called the owner of floatswitches.net and he swear by it that the powerhead 201 and regular wall outlet current would do fine. So i dont know who to believe, lol.

About the electricity your heater and powerheads put off... I'm told if you buy a Rid-Volt, your corals will brighten up and your fish will make themselves more visible. My system hasn't been up and running long enough to prove this true or false, though. They're about $15.

oh yea - i talked to a few guys who have been in the trade of electrical enginering [with degrees] for 20+ years.. [one as a guy who professionaly refurbishes 1/2 million dollar soundboards, etc.
showed them the stats on the switches.. and showed them one- and the leads as well...


they said in regards to the above comments
"The juice going throught a cheap $6 battery powered is much less than the 110 coming out of the wall. "

keeping wattage low would be fine for the leads that small.. they said the guy who designed it was auctually smart to keep costs down, and still be fuctional.....

plus they also said there would be no way that floatswitches.net would have gotten away with a UL listing, for a device listed with those specs for performance in water and salt water, if it would have been anywhere as dangerous as people have mentioned

it worx!!! Thank you Wet. I'll try to get a pic up. I've tried a physh type set up using a cheap low current ph but read so much about using relays as a precaution, this battery powered ATO makes a lot of sense. The hagen pump looks so cheap though i just hope it doesn't fall apart.

It is cheap...but think about it, it only needs to work for what...a minute or two a week to do it's job? These things are designed to work for hours on end at least...and that also puts my battery concerns in perspective. Im using half dead ones that the mag-lite wore out...and it still pumps like a champ.

i followed wet's instructions and made me an ato!
ato hooked up to 1G jug
the pic is at the bottom. my floatswitch is mounted to a pill container and cabletied to a maxijet holder. i had to cap the return with a airline valve as the water really pours out! The only drawback to atos is the extra gulp that returns to the tank when the container is decompressing. but so far my refrac says the tank is spot on at 34-35 . another note: you can pierce the cap of a 1G water jug with a scissor instead of pulling out the dremel. it also helps to cut the tubing at an angle so it pierces your small hole in the cap and makes a tight seal without using silicone. this is a much better fit than i had using silicone for my diy co2 reactor for my planted tank.

hmm I already have my auto top off setup (cheap o bottle package) and was just poking around looking for ways to mount the float switch. I still need to build a display unit version. but anywho that's besides the point.

Your method of the slide pipe is what I'm currently tinkering with.
I'm going to Walyworld after work today to pickup a battery unit. One less wire plugged into the wall is one less wire plugged into the wall. I already have a battery charger system (10 yrs old but sitll works)

Thk's for the great idea ! :woot:

Is this the float switch you used? If not, think this one will work?

http://www.floatswitches.net/floatswitch.html

that is the current version of the one i used. They are identicle beyond color and the new ones have longer wire leads.

My question.... maybe I missed it but after the pump fills the tank back up and the float cuts off the power, isn't the bottle still pressurized and still filling up the tank till the pressure is gone?

Not sure how much water will pour in since its a small tube and power source, but curious if anyone had any issues?

In my situation, it cuts out pretty quickly...as soon as the pump stops, pressure stops changing. It does mean that some water stays in the tube. FWIW, having the top-off fill a little bit more after the pump stops is desirable for many. It means that your pump isnt going to go on/off as much. In the larger reef, I use an ultralife float switch and a water source that pumps from a tub below the sump that it feeds into....but up and then down a long coil of 1/4" tube. This 'overfills' the sump a little...not enough to change any parameters, but enough to insure that the pump doesnt get triggered every other second as soon as a few drops evaporate...get the picture?

under. what type of airpump do you have on your big tank? mine even if i don't restrict flow of topoff going into the tank runs for mabye 2-5 mins ...

as i prefer a gradual change rater than having freshwater dumped in so fast into my fuge- the fuge drops in salinity majorly..

its a powerhead, not an airpump, BTW.

Where is the water container in relation to the tank/sump it is filling? My top-off container is just next to and below the water level it is filling. Placing the source above the tank being filled could lead to extra water flowing in.

Also, this might be due to the container you are using. Very flexible containers will expand more to build up pressure before pumping, and take a little longer releasing pressure (pushing out water) after the pump stops. The more rigid the container...the better. I use those plastic orange juice containers.

Hi, a newbie making his first post here!

I'm very interested in this battery powered top-off idea, however there's a couple of things I'm still wondering about..

First, how much power do the battery powered air pumps pack? I'd like to lift kalkwasser from my aquarium cabinet up to the tank, so maybe 3-4 feet up. Would the pump be able to create enough pressure for this? I guess I could also look into a 12V pump, but would it be overkill? I wouldn't want to blow up the container..

Also, I'd like the kalkwasser drip to be very slow, e.g 1 drop per second. Would this be possible with adjusting the air pump (is it adjustable?) + maybe using valves on the kalkwasser hose? Of course the top-off would remain on for a longer period this way, but I could run the pump of a DC converter.

If you can shed some light on these issues, please help me out!

1st Q: The batteries are two D cells in parallel...about 3 volts. Pump water through 1/4" hose 3-4 feet up? I cant imagine why not. You know, I havent tried it yet, but I think I will test the system to get a figure as to what the MAX HEAD on this setup would be.

Q2: 12V shouldnt be overkill, as I see people use plug in (110V) pumps in the same manner.

Q3: This might be tricky. Impeding the flow of the water this much will prolly blow the motor, not to mention suck the batteries dry really fast if you didnt use a converter. I have tinkered with using the end of a eye-dropper on the output...that works fine..but even slower than that...nah. The pump is adjustable, but I wouldnt go down to 1 drop per second. FWIW, the slow rate that this system tops off I believe would be just fine for kalk dosing. Keep in mind youre only going to get a few table spoons at a time when it does turn on...fine for kalk even if it does go in all at once. I have seen people use kalk with free flowing air pump and even powerhead driven top-offs like this and be just fine. No drip control needed like a dosing system.

Undertheradar, thanks for your reply!

If you could do the water-lift test with your setup, I would really appreciate it. Of course I could also use a smaller hose (1/6" or something) if the pump can't lift the kalk through the 1/4".

I think I still would like to try and think of ways to make the drip slower. I've read everywhere that kalkwasser must be added very slowly to the system and call me paranoid but I'd definately sleep better at night if I knew the drip was slow..

I don't quite understand what you said about the top-off dumping only a couple of table spoons of kalk at a time.. I have a 130 liter (~25 gallon) tank and if the float switch reacts to 1/4" changes (like someone posted on the forum), that's quite a load of kalk to dump into the system at once and it might have an ill effect on the inhabitants. How accurate would you say the float switch is?

I guess I could fiddle around with adjusting the pump to the minimum and maybe even running it on a lower voltage (if it will run..). Another idea would be to use a Y piece on the hose to make the kalk dump from two different corners on the tank. This way it would probably dilute down faster and have less of an effect on the tank.

Then my float switch turns on it is for about 10 seconds at a time...and the first three seconds are just for the pump to get everything going...so really just 7 seconds of pumping. Using a tiny powerhead, I know making a kalk reactor out of another orange juice bottle and just letting the top-off deal with it would work.

here...

Alright Ladies and Genetalman,
I have some updates for you. Dut to your requests, I have done some discovering with regards to this system. First: For those of you that dont want battery power...I have found something very simple: Cell Phone Chargers!!! Most are right around 3V. I found an old Nokia 3.6V. Now, who doesnt have an old cell-phone charger laying around these days? ...or if not, Im sure you can find someone who does. Just remove the batteries, and splice the wires from the charger so they are in line where the batteries would be. Works great! It made me realize just how dead the batteries are that I am using! The cell phone charger made the pump sound like a chainsaw!!! Now, I know that 3.6V is a little over 3V...but considering this pump is merely for random top-off...I doubt that the extra .6V will amount to anything, as most battery powered devices are underrated anyways for safety. Heres a pic of the little bugger I had laying around the house from a cell-phone I no longer use...

Also, I did some head pressure testing. I used a 1gallon gatorade container 1/8 full with water. With my near dead batteries I was able to pump to a max height of 3 feet. With the cell phone charger (this would be a little bit more that what a couple fresh batteries would be) I was able to pump straight up 6 feet!!!

So there you guys go. There is a way to run it off AC with a part Im sure most of you have lying around the house...and the pump can handle sustained pumping of water up to 6feet.