Hi everyone,

Over the past few weeks I've been devouring every article I could find on this site and others like it. Ever since my friend started a freshwater tank I couldn't help but be envious of his underwater adventures. I like fish well enough, but what I really enjoy are corals and invertebrates. They're endlessly fascinating to me and after reading so much finally I finally decided I had to have a reef tank of my own.

I'm turning to the helpful people of nano-reef.com because I frankly have no idea what I should buy for it, and most people in previous posts I've read have been centered on finding good stuff for fish. I might not ever have a fish in my tank, so I think my needs are somewhat different. I know in general what I need, but I'm kind of clueless what brand and quality I should get. So, I'll tell you guys what I'm set on so far, and hopefully you can help guide me the rest of the way.

Purpose: I want beautiful, easy-to-keep corals and invertebrates. If everything goes well I might add a fish, but I want to be thought of more as an underwater, oceanic gardener than as a fish-keeper.

Aquarium: I've been seduced by the clean beauty of this 25 gallon tank by Mr. Aqua: http://www.marinedepot.com/Mr._Aqua_Cube_F...-FIAQRC-vi.html. The rimless look is very attractive, though I'm somewhat concerned about the amount of evaporation I might experience.

Skimmer: Deltec MCE600 Skimmer Turbo. My friend (who was into saltwater aquariums ages ago) has one that he isn't using and would be happy to lend me, so I figured it would be neighborly to take him up on his offer. http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/deltec-...0-skimmer-turbo

Lights: MarineLand Double Bright LED Fixture. I'm concerned this won't be bright enough or produce the right kind of output to keep the corals I want to thrive. If anyone could reassure me here, or recommend an alternative, I would appreciate it. http://www.marinedepot.com/Marineland_Doub...TFILDFX-vi.html

Sump/Refugium: I honestly have no idea if I need something like this. Also the Mr. Aqua tank I'm considering doesn't come with holes so I'd have to drill them myself; I'd be able to get that done but ideally I'd like a solution that didn't involve me pulling out the tank and drilling into it.

Auto Topoff: Helpful perhaps, considering I have a rimless tank. If I don't bother with an auto-topoff, will I have to manually top off once a day, or once a week with my weekly cleanings?

Critters and Rock and Sand: I was considering "The Package" from Tampa Bay Saltwater. To my uncultured and uneducated eye it seemed like a good deal. If it would be a better idea to pick up rock and a CUC from my LFS I can go that route, but they're more expensive by a fair margin than Tampa Bay Saltwater. http://www.tampabaysaltwater.com/thepackag...kage_chart.html

Corals: I don't have any specific corals in mind actually. Zooanthids seem like a good starting point, and some toadstools: otherwise I was just going to Google "good beginner coral" and use that as a jumping off point. The only criteria is they have to be easy to keep and look totally awesome.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying "easy to keep" because I intend to let my coral languish, unloved and uncared-for. But I am a rank amateur and I have a realistic estimate of my ability to maintain a tank pristinely, at least initially. I need creatures and corals that will be at least slightly tolerant of beginner's mistakes.

This definitely went a little longer than I intended. I know this forum is probably inundated with posts like this, but I hope that my requirements are different enough that my questions might prove interesting to someone to answer. Once again, thanks very much for all your help!

Those Marineland lights aren't for reef systems. They will work on fish only systems. Everything else sounds good. The Marineland lights are very very nice looking.. They should come out with a model for reef aquariums.

to nano-reef.com

You don't have to keep fish.

Evaporation is best controlled with an automatic top off unit (ATO). Daily top offs are usually necessary.

+1 to krug on lighting. See the lighting forum for other LED alternatives and discussions on T5HO fluorescents and Metal Halides.

Do a search in the DIY forum for sump info. Since your tank has no compartments, you will need some type of equipment, like a sump, to house the skimmer.

IMO, "the package" is not a good idea. You don't need to buy live sand; dry is fine. The general guidelines for live rock are roughly 1-1.5+ lbs per gallon, and 2 pounds per gallon may not be always what you need. The CUC is the main problem with the package as it is heavy on hermit crabs, uses astraea snails (not the best choice for herbivorous snails), and offers cucumbers (may not survive in a nano). Ordering live rock online, however, is a good option if there are no reliable local sources. For the CUC, check out the link below for good and bad choices. ipsf.com (Indo-Pacific Sea farms) and reefcleaners.org are two online sources for CUC animals.
http://www.chucksaddiction.com/hitchhikers.html

zoanthids and leather (toadstool) corals are good choices. Here's a quick guide to different corals:
http://www.asira.org/caresheets

Thank you so much for your help! I'll go to those threads and study up for a better lighting solution. I do have a few more questions relating to the sump, though: I hope you'll bear with me.



Would it be possible to hang the skimmer off the back of my tank, despite the lack of compartments? If so I might not need a sump at all.

If not, is it possible to buy a sump and some piping together, as some sort of package? I'm kind of leery of drilling my own tank and would really like something that just kind of attached to it. (My DIY skills aren't exactly awesome.)

Worse comes to worse I'll modify it myself, but I'd prefer to have solutions that didn't allow for my stupidity to screw things up. Anyway, thanks again for your help.

The only skimmers that are able to hang off the back of a tank are the ones that are specifically made for it like some of the aqua-c remoras and CPR bakpaks. Now I'm going to be honest and admit that I didn't actually look up what type of skimmer that you have, but I'm assuming that it's not a HOB. If so you have three options.

1 - Go skimmerless - Especially on a system that doesn't have any fish this isn't really a bad idea. Use the money you save to buy a better light.

2 - Drill the tank and get a sump. This one is up to you. A sump/fuge is generally always good. It adds volume onto the tank and also a place for equipment and cheato/pods to grow.

3 - Buy a HOB skimmer.

Really...as a personal preference I would go skimmerless and with no sump on that tank. The tank just looks really sleek as it is and I don't see a reason to clutter it with pipes or cords if at all possible. That would just mean that you have to be sure to keep up on your water changes.

If you are focusing on corals, you need to focus most on lighting and flow. If you plan on keeping no fish at all, know you will not be satisfied with "easy" corals for long. This is a fact. Plan accordingly, with the best lights you can afford (I really like T5HOs because of bulb choice and proven reliability but MHs are awesome too) and good powerheads.

Also make sure you read others' journals regarding their 25g cubes if you haven't already so you can figure out what will work and what won't work in them re: corals. They're a nice clean design for showcasing corals, but they may also limit what you can display and where.

I've heard nothing but good about the Tampa Bay Saltwater package, but it is very expensive. You might be better off redirecting some of those funds to equipment, esp. since your focus will be on corals. I think of TBS packages more as Gulf of Mexico ready made reefs - if you didn't want to add one more thing to the tank you wouldn't necessarily have to. I'd focus more on getting the right live rock shapes for your tank to display your corals since your emphasis will be showcasing them.

Besides drilling and/or getting a sump, you could try getting a HOB filter like an aquaclear that can be altered to fit a skimmer.

Thanks again for all the words and help!

My friend's skimmer is apparently a HOB model, so I don't think I'll worry about a sump -- at least to start with. Considering it's rated for 70 gallon tanks I think it'll keep mine more than adequately clean.

The only issue I have remaining at this point is the light, I think. I've been taking a look at this:

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.asp...p;child=CU01136

Would that be adequate for a 25 gallon reef tank? The issue I'm running in to is that the cube's 18" size makes lighting fixtures somewhat difficult. I'd like an 18" fixture, and I have to say that the price is certainly right for that one above. Perhaps I should get two, if one would be insufficient? Would there be room on top of the tank for both of them?

If an 18" wouldn't work, should I just go for 26" and deal with the overhang?

As mentioned, if you are going strictly corals, you shouldn't settle with that light. It simply won't look good nor house corals that you will eventually get to. Now, if you think you will go fish eventually, then that is the trade off. A fish will move quickly, around the water column, and provide some flashy and instant action. Corals, which most of us think are the reason we do these tanks, take a more appreciated eye to lust after. If you do not have the optimum conditions for these corals, you will end up settling with a couple of standards. that is your call of course, but in my experience, most people want more or go add a couple of fish.

Now, you can do something like this and have a WAY better experience with looks and life.
http://www.marinedepot.com/JBJ_K_2_Viper_H...TFIMHCO-vi.html
I am not saying that this product is the end all, but something LIKE this (Metal Halide) will get you some great results. If your DIY skills were killer, you could go for the PAR38 LEDs that everyone is talking about. Do a quick search on nr.com for them. Given you tank size, and desires, they would be a good (albeit expensive up front cost) option for you to delve into.

Good luck, and don't skimp. "It takes a rich man to buy cheap tools."

Have fun and welcome to the best hobby ever!

I have to agree on the lighting. Even if you change your mind and start doing fish too, corals are where the fun is with nanos because of the lack of room for fish. I would say a good 4 bulb T5 fixture would work out much better than the 2 bulb one you linked. You could also go MH, but you'd loose some of the bulb combinations you get with T5. Either way...spend more outright you'll thank yourself later. I know that I tried to go cheap and went with an underpowered fixture. Sure enough I upgraded about 3 weeks ago to a much higher end fixture.

I think I'm going to have to take your advice, pyrocreep and konolua. The last thing I want is for my corals to languish.

I think I'm going to go for this fixture: Nova Extreme Pro T5 High Output Lighting Fixture - 6 x 18W - 20 in. http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/240912/product.web

From some posts in the lighting forum it seems like it'd work. Would a 20 inch fixture work on an 18 inch tank, though? Should I go up to a 24 inch wide tank to support this?

There you go! That will ROCK!

The 18" is perfect for the 20" tank. That way, you have a little "shade" spot on each side too to do lower light stuff also.

You won't be sorry! It will be awesome!

Ganna agree with konolua again here. The fixture will be more than enough for whatever you plan on putting in the tank. You'll need to watch when your adding in softies though so that you don't bleach them, but that fixture will allow you to keep even high end SPS if you decide to go that route ever.