Hi, just thought id post a guide on how to make a simple ATO system using some inexpensive parts. This is a variation of some DIY articles I found onlne but I modified a few things and made it easier to understand. This guide shows you how to assemble the switch bracket and wire up the unit to a power source. The materials need should only cost you around $20 as most people have a powerhead or two laying around and some sort of container they can use for a holding tank. This setup is designed to work great with below the tank sumps as well as AIO tanks.
It is very simple and takes only about a half hour to assemble.
Material List:
(i will post links to retailers that sell specific items at the end )
Liquid float switch: $13
1/2 threaded male to 1/8 female Reducer bushing $2
legnth of 1/2" PVC pipe ($2 or less at any hardware store)
2 PVC elbows $1or less for both (one regular and one with a coupling end)
1/2 coupling (one end female threaded other female non threaded)
6 or 9ft Extention cord $2
Heat Shrink Tubing 1/8" $2
Tool's :
Wire cutter/striper/your teeth
Soldering Iron
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Lets get started:
Here is a visual of all the parts you will need (very simple stuff)
Full Version: DIY ATO System For $20
Now what?
Next, start assembly. Feed the wires from the float switch throught the reducing coupling and thread the reducing coupling onto the threaded end of the float switch. Then feed the wires throug the 1/2 PVC coupling and thread the Switch and coupling to the PVC Coupling. Feed the wires through the PVC pipe and then through the Elbows Attach Elbows to the pipe. You have just Finished the switch assembly. There is no need to glue any of the joints on the assembly as the switch is epoxy sealed however feel free to add a few drops of super glue to any of the threads or joints to seal it up or secure it togeather.
Note: You should rough fit the the unit togeather before proceeding to make sure it is to the desired legnth for your water level in the application you will be using it for. Just cut the PVC pipe to length.
Note: You should rough fit the the unit togeather before proceeding to make sure it is to the desired legnth for your water level in the application you will be using it for. Just cut the PVC pipe to length.
QUOTE (nano_keeper30 @ Mar 17 2010, 10:29 AM) 
Next, start assembly. Feed the wires from the float switch throught the reducing coupling and thread the reducing coupling onto the threaded end of the float switch. Then feed the wires throug the 1/2 PVC coupling and thread the Switch and coupling to the PVC Coupling. Feed the wires through the PVC pipe and then through the Elbows Attach Elbows to the pipe. You have just Finished the switch assembly. There is no need to glue any of the joints on the assembly as the switch is epoxy sealed however feel free to add a few drops of super glue to any of the threads or joints to seal it up or secure it togeather.
Note: You should rough fit the the unit togeather before proceeding to make sure it is to the desired legnth for your water level in the application you will be using it for. Just cut the PVC pipe to length.
Note: You should rough fit the the unit togeather before proceeding to make sure it is to the desired legnth for your water level in the application you will be using it for. Just cut the PVC pipe to length.
you have my attention!
Next We will begin the wiring: Take the extention cord and seperate the two wires apart about 1/3 of the way down. Use a razor or a sharp knife but be careful not to cut the insulation on the two wires.
Next Cut one of the wires (doent matter which one) but leave the other intact. Strip about 1/4 inch of insulation off the ends of the cut wire.
Next Cut one of the wires (doent matter which one) but leave the other intact. Strip about 1/4 inch of insulation off the ends of the cut wire.
Next take we will solder the switch to the extention cord. Take the two wires that are coming from the switch assembly and place the appropriate legnth of heat shrink tubing over each wire then solder one wire to each of the cut ends of the extention cord wire that you just cut and striped. When the solder cools move the heat shrink tubing up and over each solderd connection and shrink the tubing with a heat gun or lighter, whatever you have.
Thats it, you are done ! For neatness I Zip Tie all the soldered connections into a even bunch as shown so there is more of a strait drop of the extention cord. For added stability I add a sucution cup to the pvc pipe that I saved from heaters that died.
All you do is plug in the deired powerhead into the extention cord and plug the extention cord into the wall. When your water level drops, the pump activates and fills your tank up to the level you have the switch set at.
All you need to do is plumb the powerhead to your tank from whatever holding tank you decide to use.
ATTENTION: The swich is very good, however being on the small side, it does have its power limitations.
The max AMP draw for this switch is .50A so no powerhead over 30 watts should be used. So dont try and use a QuetOne 4000 with this setup as you will probably blow the switch. Most 250-400gph powerheads fall under 30watts and are more than sufficiant for a ATO system as all you need is a trickle flow at best.
All you do is plug in the deired powerhead into the extention cord and plug the extention cord into the wall. When your water level drops, the pump activates and fills your tank up to the level you have the switch set at.
All you need to do is plumb the powerhead to your tank from whatever holding tank you decide to use.
ATTENTION: The swich is very good, however being on the small side, it does have its power limitations.
The max AMP draw for this switch is .50A so no powerhead over 30 watts should be used. So dont try and use a QuetOne 4000 with this setup as you will probably blow the switch. Most 250-400gph powerheads fall under 30watts and are more than sufficiant for a ATO system as all you need is a trickle flow at best.
Everything I listed can be found at your local Ace Hardware/Menards/Home Depot ect....
The Float switch and the small reducing coupling that I used harder to come by and I found it at Grainger. I am pretty sure they are a national company and any area with any kind of industry should have one you can just walk into, If not you can order them from grainger.com
Hear is a link to both the Items:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/searc...&sst=subset
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/searc...&sst=subset
The Float switch and the small reducing coupling that I used harder to come by and I found it at Grainger. I am pretty sure they are a national company and any area with any kind of industry should have one you can just walk into, If not you can order them from grainger.com
Hear is a link to both the Items:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/searc...&sst=subset
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/searc...&sst=subset
QUOTE (nano_keeper30 @ Mar 17 2010, 10:57 AM)
Everything I listed can be found at your local Ace Hardware/Menards/Home Depot ect....
The Float switch and the small reducing coupling that I used harder to come by and I found it at Grainger. I am pretty sure they are a national company and any area with any kind of industry should have one you can just walk into, If not you can order them from grainger.com
Hear is a link to both the Items:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/searc...&sst=subset
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/searc...&sst=subset
The Float switch and the small reducing coupling that I used harder to come by and I found it at Grainger. I am pretty sure they are a national company and any area with any kind of industry should have one you can just walk into, If not you can order them from grainger.com
Hear is a link to both the Items:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/searc...&sst=subset
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/searc...&sst=subset
Awesome job! thanks for the lesson!
QUOTE (thadscottmoore @ Mar 17 2010, 11:03 AM)
Awesome job! thanks for the lesson!
Your Very Welcome.
any questions feel free to ask
wow back of the pile already 
I'm not sure this seems very safe. You have 120v running through that switch. In my experience, most of the DIY ATOs that you purchase at online stores use 12v power to trigger a relay that would in turn complete or break your 120v supply. This setup appears to present a few serious shock hazzards. Definitely use drip loops and be sure you have a GFCI on your tank.
You will definitely want to add a 12v relay to that circuit to protect the float switch contacts!
Yes, using a relay with a 12v power sourch would be ideal if you are using a pump that has a higher amp draw that would likley burn out the switch if it was wired direct as I have shown, however if you use a pump at or under the tolerances that I have stated there is little to worry about and it is just as safe as any other 120v hardware you will ad to your tank. This switch is epoxy sealed, high pressure resistant and corrosive resistant to industrial Acidic and Alkaline fluids. However with anything electrical you put in your tank, there is a risk that it will burn out and shock you, however we use all sorts of other 120v hardware that has little or no protection as well that we pay good money for. Powerheads, heaters, wavemakers, lighting, air pumps, protien skimmers ect ect..All are direct 120v AC powered that we stick in our tank everyday and these devices other than their construction have NO protection if they short out or leak.
I trust this switch better than i trust any heater. Just last week I got a nice jolt when I stuck my hand in my sump. My nice expensive stealth heater decided to crap out and melt leaking 120v AC into my sump.
But I do respect your concerns and a quick upgrade would be to buy a better extention cord for a few bucks more with a built in ground fault breaker.
If you have a lot of electrical hardware in your tank the best investment you can make for around $15 is a grounding probe. I add one to every tank I own when i get a chance as mass-made chinese electronics arnt to be trusted no matter how pretty the packaging is.
I trust this switch better than i trust any heater. Just last week I got a nice jolt when I stuck my hand in my sump. My nice expensive stealth heater decided to crap out and melt leaking 120v AC into my sump.
But I do respect your concerns and a quick upgrade would be to buy a better extention cord for a few bucks more with a built in ground fault breaker.
If you have a lot of electrical hardware in your tank the best investment you can make for around $15 is a grounding probe. I add one to every tank I own when i get a chance as mass-made chinese electronics arnt to be trusted no matter how pretty the packaging is.
No, it's not ok to run that large of an inductive load through a reed switch. It never is, period. It's not the operating current, but the inrush current on start that is the problem. Not only that, you've failed to provide any suppression, so your contacts take further beating when the switch attempts to break the circuit.
I guarantee that you will weld the switch contacts and your ATO will be stuck on, flooding your tank with RO. The only question is when. Especially if you put the switch in a turbulent environment.
Not only that, but your design completely fails to include a redundant switch or timer, despite the well-known failure issues with single-floatswitch ATOs from algae fouling and snailriding.
However, I do like your use of PVC for the floatswitch hanger. Creative.
Edit - you should know that this is meant to help you, not shoot you down. Your design has flaws, but they can be easily fixed with a relay and a second floatswitch.
I guarantee that you will weld the switch contacts and your ATO will be stuck on, flooding your tank with RO. The only question is when. Especially if you put the switch in a turbulent environment.
Not only that, but your design completely fails to include a redundant switch or timer, despite the well-known failure issues with single-floatswitch ATOs from algae fouling and snailriding.
However, I do like your use of PVC for the floatswitch hanger. Creative.
Edit - you should know that this is meant to help you, not shoot you down. Your design has flaws, but they can be easily fixed with a relay and a second floatswitch.
QUOTE (neanderthalman @ Mar 18 2010, 01:46 PM)
No, it's not ok to run that large of an inductive load through a reed switch. It never is, period. It's not the operating current, but the inrush current on start that is the problem. Not only that, you've failed to provide any suppression, so your contacts take further beating when the switch attempts to break the circuit.
I guarantee that you will weld the switch contacts and your ATO will be stuck on, flooding your tank with RO. The only question is when. Especially if you put the switch in a turbulent environment.
Not only that, but your design completely fails to include a redundant switch or timer, despite the well-known failure issues with single-floatswitch ATOs from algae fouling and snailriding.
However, I do like your use of PVC for the floatswitch hanger. Creative.
Edit - you should know that this is meant to help you, not shoot you down. Your design has flaws, but they can be easily fixed with a relay and a second floatswitch.
I guarantee that you will weld the switch contacts and your ATO will be stuck on, flooding your tank with RO. The only question is when. Especially if you put the switch in a turbulent environment.
Not only that, but your design completely fails to include a redundant switch or timer, despite the well-known failure issues with single-floatswitch ATOs from algae fouling and snailriding.
However, I do like your use of PVC for the floatswitch hanger. Creative.
Edit - you should know that this is meant to help you, not shoot you down. Your design has flaws, but they can be easily fixed with a relay and a second floatswitch.
+1 These switches fail as you are telling people to install them. Get a relay and a low voltage power source to run them. You should also use multiple float switches for redundancy. I personally use (3) on one tank the lower (2) connected to the relay in a latch relay set-up and the upper most switch as a fail safe. Connecting two switches to your relay in a latch set-up will greatly increase the life and relaibility of the system. Basically the lowest switch turns the pump on, the middle one turns it odd and the top one is a back-up. Latching the two lower float switches prevents the switch from burning out due to constant on/off.
Don't cheap on your ATO. You should also not post DIY instructions to things you are not qualified to design.
can someone PRETTY PLEASE with f-bombing sugar on top make one of these with the few recomendations made by the two members? particularily the part about it not sticking on...and then post pictures? Oh also I need a ride to the mall...
that is what I love about this board! Its the spring well of knowledge that overflows! lots of good input!
QUOTE (Qwiv @ Mar 18 2010, 05:09 PM)
Don't cheap on your ATO. You should also not post DIY instructions to things you are not qualified to design.
Wow I guess that people should not try to help others from concepts that have worked for them. A concept keeps growing from imput from others.
1.) I emulated this concept from a design that I found online. 2.) I feel I made some improovments with the knowledge that I have.
Here is the design that I got the idea from. http://www.melevsreef.com/plumbing/auto_topoff.html
I never said that this Idea was the best, but it is simple and does work. I am more than open to ways to make this better and more fail safe if you have some specific imput post a diagram that can improove it.
I still think the general design of this can be really usefull to a lot of people and if spending a extra $7 on a relay and using a old phone charger can make this safer great, but post how to do it instead of telling people that probably dont know what a relay is to begin with to use a relay and a 12v power sourch.
How much better is this system that is going for $34 ? Dont look to much differnt.
http://picoaquariums.com/index.php?page=sh...rt&Itemid=1
QUOTE (nano_keeper30 @ Mar 18 2010, 08:06 PM)
I never said that this Idea was the best, but it is simple and does work. I am more than open to ways to make this better and more fail safe if you have some specific imput post a diagram that can improove it.
I still think the general design of this can be really usefull to a lot of people and if spending a extra $7 on a relay and using a old phone charger can make this safer great, but post how to do it instead of telling people that probably dont know what a relay is to begin with to use a relay and a 12v power sourch.
I still think the general design of this can be really usefull to a lot of people and if spending a extra $7 on a relay and using a old phone charger can make this safer great, but post how to do it instead of telling people that probably dont know what a relay is to begin with to use a relay and a 12v power sourch.
You're missing the point, sure it might work now, but sooner or later the float switch will fail since it's hooked up to 120V AC. After all, you are using a 12V float switch, it should be on a 12V circuit... Try this:
Can someone like neanterthalman proofread this?
Aside from showing the coil and contacts of the relay, you've got the idea rollei. However, it should be pointed out that the switch nano keeper used is rated for 120V (as I recall, the link isn't working anymore). That alone is not the problem. If you were using a resistive load, I'd wager you'd have no problem. The pumps we use, however, are inductive loads, which introduces complexities not encountered with resistive loads.
The issue here is the larger than nominal currents generated by inductive loads, combined with a voltage sufficient for arcing across the switch contacts. Rule of thumb is to multiply the normal running current by a factor of six to ten. This floatswitch, rated for 0.5A, should really only operate a pump that is labeled as drawing 50mA....and even then you're not going to get away scot-free. On shutdown you have to deal with the extreme voltages (could be thousands) generated as the magnetic field in the pump collapses. That alone can damage the reed switch unless you put suppression across your load (ie: varistor or diode)
I would also never in a million years recommend the pico aquariums ATO. I don't know if they have a micro relay inside the enclosure, but I doubt it. Above all else, the use of a single floatswitch is a bad idea all around. They're just not reliable enough on their own. Redundancy is necessary. A second floatswitch takes a one in a thousand chance of failure and makes it one in a million. Big difference.
The issue here is the larger than nominal currents generated by inductive loads, combined with a voltage sufficient for arcing across the switch contacts. Rule of thumb is to multiply the normal running current by a factor of six to ten. This floatswitch, rated for 0.5A, should really only operate a pump that is labeled as drawing 50mA....and even then you're not going to get away scot-free. On shutdown you have to deal with the extreme voltages (could be thousands) generated as the magnetic field in the pump collapses. That alone can damage the reed switch unless you put suppression across your load (ie: varistor or diode)
I would also never in a million years recommend the pico aquariums ATO. I don't know if they have a micro relay inside the enclosure, but I doubt it. Above all else, the use of a single floatswitch is a bad idea all around. They're just not reliable enough on their own. Redundancy is necessary. A second floatswitch takes a one in a thousand chance of failure and makes it one in a million. Big difference.
Well thanks for the imput guys, I will try and put as much of this into my next ATO setup as possible and revise this thread. After all I am just trying to help others with being as inexpensive as possible as I think anything that you can do yourself and save some money is good idea, plus have the enjoyment and feel accomplished by making something from scratch.
FYI i still do reccomend using the switch from grainger though. I have orderd a few other switches that are about half the price and I dont think I will be using them. They look poorly assembled and I would not trust the sealed contacts in a aquarium at any voltage AC or DC. This switch seems to be rather sturdy and meant for more ridgid industrial use. And with the threaded end and reducing coupling makes for the easy installation using PVC pipe as a hanger which I might ad fits snug on the rim of my BC29 and NC28 for secure operation. Plus you can seal all the PVC joints for a water proof assembly.
Looks like im off to radio shack for a relay and home depot for some sort of project box.
FYI i still do reccomend using the switch from grainger though. I have orderd a few other switches that are about half the price and I dont think I will be using them. They look poorly assembled and I would not trust the sealed contacts in a aquarium at any voltage AC or DC. This switch seems to be rather sturdy and meant for more ridgid industrial use. And with the threaded end and reducing coupling makes for the easy installation using PVC pipe as a hanger which I might ad fits snug on the rim of my BC29 and NC28 for secure operation. Plus you can seal all the PVC joints for a water proof assembly.
Looks like im off to radio shack for a relay and home depot for some sort of project box.
See for me those diagrams are useless. It makes zero sense to me. Can someone PLEASE make one with pics of this 12V thingamajig? I'm just aweful with electricity. The worst actually, ask my mom, no foolin'.
People on here are really lazy. There must be 100s of tutorials on this.
Google what a relay is. You really shouldn't build something unless you know what you are actually doing and not following some prepared instruction.
Here is a pic that shows how to install a relay in a latch set-up.
Click to view attachment
I would recommend adding a switch in series with FS2 that will turn the circuit off if the first switch fails.
NanoKeeper, your float switch mount is good. Mine is similar but I have multiple float switches and I used a drill/tap to mount the floats instead of a bushing. Allows more mounting possibilities.
Google what a relay is. You really shouldn't build something unless you know what you are actually doing and not following some prepared instruction.
Here is a pic that shows how to install a relay in a latch set-up.
Click to view attachment
I would recommend adding a switch in series with FS2 that will turn the circuit off if the first switch fails.
NanoKeeper, your float switch mount is good. Mine is similar but I have multiple float switches and I used a drill/tap to mount the floats instead of a bushing. Allows more mounting possibilities.
I'm not lazy, just not technically savy. Your diagram looks like a bunch of lines and stuff to me. Doesn't mean much to this guy.
QUOTE (acropora1981 @ Mar 19 2010, 10:05 AM)
I'm not lazy, just not technically savy. Your diagram looks like a bunch of lines and stuff to me. Doesn't mean much to this guy.
Not trying to insult. Sorry if it came over like that. I am just saying the information is out there and the concept is simple enough that with a little study, you can figure it out. If you can't figure it out, buy a quality pre-made system or use a Aquarium Controller with switch inputs to create a software version.
Look up how a relay works. There are different kinds of relays, but the ones we are using are basically a switch controlled by an electro magnet. The float switches and low voltage power supply turn on and off the magnet that opens and closes the switch controlling the pump at a higher voltage. K1 in the diagram is the relay.
Watch the animated gif for a while. The red line indicates where there is power at different times. It does a great job explaining it and how the relay stays on at different float switch positions. The only confusing thing in the diagram is the diode (D1). That is harder to explain, but it protects the relay. I'd go into it, but you need to explain a lot to show a person its function.
The system shown is leaps and bounds better than any available on the market
Nice build, I built a little bit ago just like it. Im happy with the way it works.
QUOTE (acropora1981 @ Mar 19 2010, 02:05 PM)
I'm not lazy, just not technically savy. Your diagram looks like a bunch of lines and stuff to me. Doesn't mean much to this guy.
Then perhaps a DIY ATO isn't for you! I would imagine that is why companies like Tunze and JBJ make automatic top-off systems....for people that aren't "technically savvy"!
hey guys comon he is jus askin for a more visual type . like a parts list and directions on exactly how to buid it
LOL its funny how people can be technical but not technically savy about different areas.
I am a computer/netowrk tech at a hospital. I understand software and networking etc.
People draw these line drawings and use their symbols and crap and heck I am lost in short order.
Once i lookup all the symbols and what nots I am fine.. get my parts burn up 2x the amount needed to do the job (3rd time really is the charm for me usually) Then I get it all figured out.. LOL
people just learn differently so go easy on people who are starting to learn.. remember you electrically savy people were noobs once also.. list him a few resources you learned from and be helpful. Derogatory comments help no one to learn.
I am a computer/netowrk tech at a hospital. I understand software and networking etc.
People draw these line drawings and use their symbols and crap and heck I am lost in short order.
Once i lookup all the symbols and what nots I am fine.. get my parts burn up 2x the amount needed to do the job (3rd time really is the charm for me usually) Then I get it all figured out.. LOL
people just learn differently so go easy on people who are starting to learn.. remember you electrically savy people were noobs once also.. list him a few resources you learned from and be helpful. Derogatory comments help no one to learn.
QUOTE (nano-reefer1 @ Mar 19 2010, 03:55 PM)
hey guys comon he is jus askin for a more visual type . like a parts list and directions on exactly how to buid it
a 12v relay rated for 120v, 3 float switches and wire. Diode for extra credit.
Connect as drawn.
QUOTE (Degener8 @ Mar 19 2010, 04:04 PM)
LOL its funny how people can be technical but not technically savy about different areas.
I am a computer/netowrk tech at a hospital. I understand software and networking etc.
People draw these line drawings and use their symbols and crap and heck I am lost in short order.
Once i lookup all the symbols and what nots I am fine.. get my parts burn up 2x the amount needed to do the job (3rd time really is the charm for me usually) Then I get it all figured out.. LOL
people just learn differently so go easy on people who are starting to learn.. remember you electrically savy people were noobs once also.. list him a few resources you learned from and be helpful. Derogatory comments help no one to learn.
I am a computer/netowrk tech at a hospital. I understand software and networking etc.
People draw these line drawings and use their symbols and crap and heck I am lost in short order.
Once i lookup all the symbols and what nots I am fine.. get my parts burn up 2x the amount needed to do the job (3rd time really is the charm for me usually) Then I get it all figured out.. LOL
people just learn differently so go easy on people who are starting to learn.. remember you electrically savy people were noobs once also.. list him a few resources you learned from and be helpful. Derogatory comments help no one to learn.
I'm sorry, so I should search google for a few hours and post a detailed how to list? Should I also post a complete guide to how to wire things safely? There are tons of how-to's posted on Reefcentral on how to build these. If you want to learn about it, go out and find the information. Its called learning. I can't do it for you. I am not going to spoon feed an electrical 101 class to people in this thread unless you want to pay me and following directions only teaches you how to follow directions. I just gave out some free advice on how to get started and posted a very valuable diagram on how to latch a relay. Hopefully stopped people from making the mistake of following the OG posters design. Messing with medium voltage electronics (120 - 220v) is not something you should be doing without some general knowledge above and beyond following step by step directions.
I wasn't being derogatory. I was just stating a fact that not all people can do the DIY stuff. It wasn't meant to be mean or harsh. Heck there are things that I wish I could build but I can't. Everyone has capabilities and limits, that's all. (Didn't you see my smiley face?) 
Someone make a diy design with that rely switch i hate filling up my tank every other day please ...
QUOTE (rcasiano @ Mar 19 2010, 10:20 PM)
Someone make a diy design with that rely switch i hate filling up my tank every other day please ...
Working on it.
Saw this today and thought it should be mentioned here.
QUOTE (Joefish @ Mar 21 2010, 08:31 AM)
Hi, I am using the ATO.com dual float set up in the sump of my 20 long and it has performed flawlessly for a couple years now. The bottom float switch has the "snail gaurd" PVC cap. The only issue I had with it was a few times I would find my sump filled to the second float swtch indicating a problem with the bottom float switch. Turns out the bottom float switch, the one that controls the water level in the sump, had some calcalerous growth that was causing the switch to stick. After cleaning it the problem stopped. At least the back up switch did its job averting a flood disaster. Great product. I use a Tom's aqualifter as the pump.
As promised - DIY designs using a relay. There are two - one is a higher cost "cadillac", which includes multiple levels of redundancy and an on-board DC power supply. The second is a basic "barebones" kit.
QUOTE (neanderthalman @ Mar 21 2010, 12:14 PM)
I've made some upgrades to the design. It now includes overcurrent protection, a voltage regulator, as well as a simple RC timer. This adds an additional layer of redundancy. The relay will shut off after an adjustable time delay, or if the backup floatswitch is lifted. It also removes the absolute requirement to have a backup floatswitch, should you so desire - simply short the backup floatswitch terminals with a jumper. I would not personally run it this way, but this may be of benefit in very small tanks where a second float will not fit.
On to the good stuff:
You'll need the following:
PCB - $17.46
Rectifier - $0.51
3300uF Capacitor - $0.82
Transformer - $3.15
Relay - $2.58
Diode - $0.27
Fuse Holder X2 - $0.61 ea
1A Fuse - $0.32
1M Potentiometer - $0.83
0.1uF Capacitor - $0.18
10uF Capacitor - $0.16
Terminal Strip - $1.26
MOSFET - $0.68
12V Regulator - $0.54
100mA Fuse - $1.34
10k Resistor - $0.15
Total Cost - $31.32. The truly frugal could cut the cost in half by duplicating the circuit on a perforated board, if they felt up to the task.
For the floatswitches, you may use whatever you like, so long as it is "normally closed". This means that when the water level drops, the switch turns "on". I personally use the FLT015 from Chicago sensor - this is the floatswitch from the now defunct www.floatswitches.net, which used to be the goto place for DIY ATO's. It was sad to see them go, but at least the switches are still available to us. The cost on the switches is $7.00 each. For the price, I'd pick up an extra to keep on hand in case you have a failure.
For my fellow Canadians - I know that some of the above listed parts are not listed as in-stock items on the Canadian version of Digikey. I am putting together a separate list and will post it here as soon as it is complete.
On to the good stuff:
You'll need the following:
PCB - $17.46
Rectifier - $0.51
3300uF Capacitor - $0.82
Transformer - $3.15
Relay - $2.58
Diode - $0.27
Fuse Holder X2 - $0.61 ea
1A Fuse - $0.32
1M Potentiometer - $0.83
0.1uF Capacitor - $0.18
10uF Capacitor - $0.16
Terminal Strip - $1.26
MOSFET - $0.68
12V Regulator - $0.54
100mA Fuse - $1.34
10k Resistor - $0.15
Total Cost - $31.32. The truly frugal could cut the cost in half by duplicating the circuit on a perforated board, if they felt up to the task.
For the floatswitches, you may use whatever you like, so long as it is "normally closed". This means that when the water level drops, the switch turns "on". I personally use the FLT015 from Chicago sensor - this is the floatswitch from the now defunct www.floatswitches.net, which used to be the goto place for DIY ATO's. It was sad to see them go, but at least the switches are still available to us. The cost on the switches is $7.00 each. For the price, I'd pick up an extra to keep on hand in case you have a failure.
For my fellow Canadians - I know that some of the above listed parts are not listed as in-stock items on the Canadian version of Digikey. I am putting together a separate list and will post it here as soon as it is complete.
QUOTE (neanderthalman @ Mar 21 2010, 12:31 PM)
I have also put together a barebones kit. This is a lower cost ATO that does not include the features of the V1.3. It requires an external 12V power supply, and does not include the RC timer. It does, however, still have a connection for a backup floatswitch.
Parts List:
PCB - $10
Relay - $2.58
Diode - $0.27
Fuse Holder - $0.61
1A Fuse - $0.32
Terminal Strip - $1.26
Total Cost - $15.04
You could also save the ten bucks on the PCB and duplicate this on a perforated board with minimal effort.
As with the V1.3, any normally closed (on when down) floatswitch can be used. I personally use and recommend the Chicago Sensor FLT015 - $7.00.
Canadian parts list to be added later.
Parts List:
PCB - $10
Relay - $2.58
Diode - $0.27
Fuse Holder - $0.61
1A Fuse - $0.32
Terminal Strip - $1.26
Total Cost - $15.04
You could also save the ten bucks on the PCB and duplicate this on a perforated board with minimal effort.
As with the V1.3, any normally closed (on when down) floatswitch can be used. I personally use and recommend the Chicago Sensor FLT015 - $7.00.
Canadian parts list to be added later.
ok, i added a .5 amp inline fuse to both leads on my design. If what you guys are saying about large amounts of draw from the switch being wired driectly to the circuit one of these tiny fuses should be blown any day now. I have had it wired with this way since friday and working fine.
Not saying that it wont I just want to experiment with this to see how long or if it will blow the fuses. I am not going on any trips or anything anytime soon so if a fuse blows it will just not fill my tank until i get home from work nothing else. If it blows then i guess i wire up the relay i baught.
To everyone that helped improve my design thanks, to those that helped improve my design with a supiriority chip on their shoulder, you probably should not be a member of a forum as these are intended to help people and share information not degrade or insult people looking for information or looking to help others.
Noone is above critisism but some of the "my way or no way" attitudes that are on this forum are out of control and need to be delt with. What works for you may not work for somone else and vise versa. There are many ways of doing something and your way may not be the best way but if it works for you then thats all that matters.
Not saying that my design is all that and a hat and yes there are some things that may need improving and some of the imput was helpfull. A relay for those that can understand it is a good thing and makes my system more failsafe. But I cant help to think that if someone posted a simple gravity fed system someone would post a reply about the moon being close to the earth and gravity is affected and its gonna thow off the float valve.
I often wonder with all these super genius posters why they have so much time to sit on nano-reef all day? Thought they would have less time with designing satalites and doing brain surguries and all that
Not saying that it wont I just want to experiment with this to see how long or if it will blow the fuses. I am not going on any trips or anything anytime soon so if a fuse blows it will just not fill my tank until i get home from work nothing else. If it blows then i guess i wire up the relay i baught.
To everyone that helped improve my design thanks, to those that helped improve my design with a supiriority chip on their shoulder, you probably should not be a member of a forum as these are intended to help people and share information not degrade or insult people looking for information or looking to help others.
Noone is above critisism but some of the "my way or no way" attitudes that are on this forum are out of control and need to be delt with. What works for you may not work for somone else and vise versa. There are many ways of doing something and your way may not be the best way but if it works for you then thats all that matters.
Not saying that my design is all that and a hat and yes there are some things that may need improving and some of the imput was helpfull. A relay for those that can understand it is a good thing and makes my system more failsafe. But I cant help to think that if someone posted a simple gravity fed system someone would post a reply about the moon being close to the earth and gravity is affected and its gonna thow off the float valve.
I often wonder with all these super genius posters why they have so much time to sit on nano-reef all day? Thought they would have less time with designing satalites and doing brain surguries and all that
QUOTE (nano_keeper30 @ Mar 23 2010, 09:31 AM)
ok, i added a .5 amp inline fuse to both leads on my design. If what you guys are saying about large amounts of draw from the switch being wired driectly to the circuit one of these tiny fuses should be blown any day now. I have had it wired with this way since friday and working fine.
Not saying that it wont I just want to experiment with this to see how long or if it will blow the fuses. I am not going on any trips or anything anytime soon so if a fuse blows it will just not fill my tank until i get home from work nothing else. If it blows then i guess i wire up the relay i baught.
To everyone that helped improve my design thanks, to those that helped improve my design with a supiriority chip on their shoulder, you probably should not be a member of a forum as these are intended to help people and share information not degrade or insult people looking for information or looking to help others.
Noone is above critisism but some of the "my way or no way" attitudes that are on this forum are out of control and need to be delt with. What works for you may not work for somone else and vise versa. There are many ways of doing something and your way may not be the best way but if it works for you then thats all that matters.
Not saying that my design is all that and a hat and yes there are some things that may need improving and some of the imput was helpfull. A relay for those that can understand it is a good thing and makes my system more failsafe. But I cant help to think that if someone posted a simple gravity fed system someone would post a reply about the moon being close to the earth and gravity is affected and its gonna thow off the float valve.
I often wonder with all these super genius posters why they have so much time to sit on nano-reef all day? Thought they would have less time with designing satalites and doing brain surguries and all that
Not saying that it wont I just want to experiment with this to see how long or if it will blow the fuses. I am not going on any trips or anything anytime soon so if a fuse blows it will just not fill my tank until i get home from work nothing else. If it blows then i guess i wire up the relay i baught.
To everyone that helped improve my design thanks, to those that helped improve my design with a supiriority chip on their shoulder, you probably should not be a member of a forum as these are intended to help people and share information not degrade or insult people looking for information or looking to help others.
Noone is above critisism but some of the "my way or no way" attitudes that are on this forum are out of control and need to be delt with. What works for you may not work for somone else and vise versa. There are many ways of doing something and your way may not be the best way but if it works for you then thats all that matters.
Not saying that my design is all that and a hat and yes there are some things that may need improving and some of the imput was helpfull. A relay for those that can understand it is a good thing and makes my system more failsafe. But I cant help to think that if someone posted a simple gravity fed system someone would post a reply about the moon being close to the earth and gravity is affected and its gonna thow off the float valve.
I often wonder with all these super genius posters why they have so much time to sit on nano-reef all day? Thought they would have less time with designing satalites and doing brain surguries and all that
I fuse won't work, especially a .5 amp fuse. Maybe a smaller fuse, but a .5 amp certainly is not the correct fuse size to use. The reed switch is 'weaker' than the fuse you are trying to protect it with. Fuses work by breaking due to heat from a load which takes time. The reed switch will most likely fail due to arcing. You are using the wrong part to protect the switch. You could put 100 amps through a .5 amp fuse for a very short time but long enough to damage the float switch, especially over time.
Read about protecting reed switches:
http://www.meder.com/fileadmin/meder/pdf/e..._Protection.pdf
Read switched are first off meant for DC application. To protect them you use diodes, resistors and relays, not fuses.
Besides just the electrical issues, your single switch design still is flawed due to mechanical failure (salt creep on switch, calcium deposits, snails, any item that can jamb it open/closed).
I have been using float switches for a long time in both my tanks and my job. I have flooded my garage more times than I care to admit being lazy and using a simplified system to save time and money. I know how prone floats are to failure. Every system that uses a float switch has a back-up for when the switch fails. You have shown that you don't have the understanding in this subject matter and are so stubborn that you can't accept that you are doing something wrong and can't take criticism. I have no problem with you building this device as you designed it on YOUR tank but the others here at nano reef should be aware of the dangers in using what you feel is safe. If you are going to post something online you better be ready for people to critique it. It is people like us that prevent unknowing readers from copying poor designs.
As far as insulting people with obviously more knowledge that you in this field because we have time to post on Nano Reefs, some people like to spend time here and have the ability to for all kinds of reasons. Maybe they are retired or unemployed. I personally have about 350 people working for me right now and when things are going to plan, I have free time to enjoy as I see fit. Some managers golf, I build things.
As far as the gravity system you mention. I don't personally like a gravity system but at least those tend to be fail safe, which means when they fail, they typically fail in the safe position. ie, they normally just stop. Your design will fail insecure, which means when it fails the pump for your ATO will most likely fail ON. If you design your tank to accommodate all the added water from the ATO, great. But you don't mention that warning.
QUOTE (Qwiv @ Mar 23 2010, 02:24 PM)
I fuse won't work, especially a .5 amp fuse. Maybe a smaller fuse, but a .5 amp certainly is not the correct fuse size to use. The reed switch is 'weaker' than the fuse you are trying to protect it with. Fuses work by breaking due to heat from a load which takes time. The reed switch will most likely fail due to arcing. You are using the wrong part to protect the switch. You could put 100 amps through a .5 amp fuse for a very short time but long enough to damage the float switch, especially over time.
100%
The inrush currents on these pumps will be very fast indeed. Much faster, I would expect, than even a "fastblow" fuse.
Not only that, but fuses don't address the high voltages on shutoff that will damage the switch without suppression.
I mean, it's a good start, fuses are a damn good thing to have if, say, the pump stalls, but it's not going to address the issue of the floatswitch failure. It also doesn't address snailriding, algae buildup, or more calcarous growth (such as spirorbid worms). Hell, Q-tip sponges can jam a floatswitch.
QUOTE (neanderthalman @ Mar 23 2010, 05:20 PM)
100%
The inrush currents on these pumps will be very fast indeed. Much faster, I would expect, than even a "fastblow" fuse.
Not only that, but fuses don't address the high voltages on shutoff that will damage the switch without suppression.
I mean, it's a good start, fuses are a damn good thing to have if, say, the pump stalls, but it's not going to address the issue of the floatswitch failure. It also doesn't address snailriding, algae buildup, or more calcarous growth (such as spirorbid worms). Hell, Q-tip sponges can jam a floatswitch.
The inrush currents on these pumps will be very fast indeed. Much faster, I would expect, than even a "fastblow" fuse.
Not only that, but fuses don't address the high voltages on shutoff that will damage the switch without suppression.
I mean, it's a good start, fuses are a damn good thing to have if, say, the pump stalls, but it's not going to address the issue of the floatswitch failure. It also doesn't address snailriding, algae buildup, or more calcarous growth (such as spirorbid worms). Hell, Q-tip sponges can jam a floatswitch.
I would advise using a GFI. It's much faster, and accurate in comparison to fuses. Plus you can also just reset it after a problem. I built one like Qwiv's design, but the AC goes through the GFI. It does add a bit (around $15) to cost but it will be worth it long term.
Here's a pic. The 12vDC relay is on the side, and the 12vDC transformer is in the outlet box along with the relay diode. I keep thinking I should write it up but I forget....
Click to view attachment
GFCI does not perform the same function, at all, as a fuse.
GFCI detects a current imbalance between your live and neutral, signifying that one or the other is leaking current to ground. GFCI will not protect from overcurrent conditions like a fuse, and it's not going to protect the reed switch against kickback like a suppression diode/varistor.
Good job on your build though - does what you need it to do. IMO, the GFCI might be better used to power your entire tank, where it would in turn protect the ATO. Do you already have a GFCI for everything else?
QUOTE (darcurr @ Mar 28 2010, 03:12 PM)
I would advise using a GFI. It's much faster, and accurate in comparison to fuses. Plus you can also just reset it after a problem. I built one like Qwiv's design, but the AC goes through the GFI. It does add a bit (around $15) to cost but it will be worth it long term.
Here's a pic. The 12vDC relay is on the side, and the 12vDC transformer is in the outlet box along with the relay diode. I keep thinking I should write it up but I forget....
Click to view attachment
Here's a pic. The 12vDC relay is on the side, and the 12vDC transformer is in the outlet box along with the relay diode. I keep thinking I should write it up but I forget....
Click to view attachment
You can't really see how you build the thing, only what it ended up looking like. You have 120v and 12v in the same electrical box, which is against code so please don't tell people to copy your design. Enclosing the 12v transformer is also a big No No. People with no idea about electrical codes should really not share their electrical DIYs.
Also, a GFI does not protect any of your low voltage equipment. A GFI monitors the hot and neutral and ground wires and trips when they are not balanced. With no faults all the energy on the hot wire should march the energy on the neutral wire with nothing on the ground. If that ratio changes, the GFI trips.
You can have a short and not trip a GFI. The GFI does not know the difference between a small short and a larger heater because they are basically the same thing. A fuse would catch this though.
You don't need to install a GFI on each piece of equipment on your tank. One GFI can protect all the outlets wired to it down stream. I do recommend installing (2) GFIs however with half your equipment in each. You should balance you equipment so that if one GFI trips, the tank will survive with the equipment plugged in the other circuit. This is called redundancy or n+1. People have lost reefs because a GFI tripped while they were away from something like a small water splash from a jumping fish. This is basically a power failure, except only locally.
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