I started this thread as a diary of my personal breeding experience. Since then, it's become a place where other new breeders and experts alike have come to share their wisdom and experiences. So welcome to Pickle's N-R Breeders Lounge! All are welcome - novices - experts and even those with no intention of breeding. If you've got an opinion, question, advise to share or are just curious - this is the right place!


And so it began:


First of all... I had no intention of starting this thread this early, but todays events led me to want to document what's happened so far so here I go.

At the end of last summer I decided that I wanted to try my hand at breeding clowns, but the whole idea was very intimidating. The more I read the more confusing it became and at times I thought I would just shell the idea. But then guys like Christosclowns and GT Aquatics showed up and reading their posts and seeing the fruits of their labor pushed me to pull the trigger and start gearing up for breeding. Make no mistake - I am in no way ready to raise fry - yet.

Here's what I've done so far:

I've purchased a 4 20g high tanks which are all going to be plumed into a 50+ gallon sump with lots of LR and cheato. I have accumulated several pound of LR that has been curring for some time. My old 40 Breeder will get some dividers and will be turned into a grow out tank and I've purchased some smaller tanks to hatch the fry.

Along the way I've decided that I'd like to raise Osc's and Snowflakes. The choice was really easy... I had a pair of Osc's that I paired up over 3 years ago and by all accounts they are a strong healthy good looking pair of clowns. I acquired another pair of Osc's here from a friend and then I chose the snowflakes just because I love the patterns.

I contacted Erik (Christosclowns) and he spent a while on the phone with me discussing my plans and how to get started. He discouraged me from buying a pair of his clowns right away and suggested that I look for proven Osc females first to pair the new snowflakes with. His reason was because males carry the dominant genes and that if I where to buy the snowflakes first and did not find them suitable females for some time they could very well turn female if left alone for too long.

So the hunt began - It didn't take me too long through my local club to find a couple of females that had the qualities I wanted and had proven to have laid eggs. Truth is I got really lucky on this one and some of the guys in my club want snowflakes.

Once the females where here and in place I contacted Erik and purchased two of his snowflakes. knowing my intentions, Erik was careful to select two very nice snowflakes from different clutches. This way if I wanted to I could of them paired as well.

Introducing the babies to the females was a little intimidating. The smaller of the two snows was only 3 months old and very small. He surprised me though by swimming straight to the female and she accepted him immediately. The larger of the snowflakes which appears to be 4 or 5 months old was a little more cautious in approaching the female. He sat in a corner next to a power head. The female spent the next couple of hours venturing up into the corner to check him out and then backed off and gave him space. Finally though he followed her back down into the display. Since then both new pairs have been inseparable. It's a good sign.

The new snowflake males are still a couple of months away from being mature enough to fertilize eggs, which is fine with me. I'm taking my time and using the down time to learn all that I can.

The day after the snows arrives Erik called to follow up on the babies to make sure they arrived alright and to see if I needed any help or suggestions on how to introduce them to the females. Luckily my females did accept the new mates with no problems - but he had a few great suggestions like taking the female out and changing up the tank or even switching the tanks since I had multiple tanks going. What impressed me the most was that he spent a bunch of time on the phone talking about the breeding process giving me all kinds of information overload. We discussed everything from temps, lighting, tanks, feeding, salinity and even culturing rotifers. Mind you - the guys wife just had a new baby a couple of days before - he didn't have a whole lot of time on his hands.

At any rate... I decided to use some of his advise to start getting the fish ready for spawning. I extended my lighting schedule, raised my tank temps and started lowering my salinity. I researched different foods and began feeding a variety of prepared and homemade foods.

The clowns have all adapted well - and seem to enjoy the constant feeding. The tanks all have their share of algae but with regular water changes the parameters are excellent.

Then it happened...

My original pair of clowns that I've had for the last 3 years spawned today. I've spent the last two hours watching in amazement as my female laid her eggs and the male quickly followed behind fertilizing the eggs. The clutch is not very big... I didn't expect the first one would be and the clowns are hard work fanning and mouthing the new eggs. The male seems to be catching on but I'm not sure just yet if he is eating them - I half expect that being his first time he most likely will.

So it looks like I'm going to have to get in gear a little quicker then I expected.

Stay tuned for updates... notes, frustrations and hopefully some babies in the near future.

Congrats!! I agree Erik is a super cool guy. Has his sh!t together and is very knowledgable.

Very cool, will be following.

Hey goodluck and keep us posted and the fun is just about to begin !!!

let me know if you have any questions....im here to help

Thanks guys... Updates will be slow for a little while - the real fun will start in a couple of months. I'll do my best to keep this updated as I progress.



Thanks bro... do me a favor though.. if you catch me doing something dumb on here or have a better way to offer don't hesitate to chime in. I'll take all the help I can get.

you are getting in way over your head you just need to ship the fish to me

I'll be sure to mark that post.

Quick day 2 update:

To my suprise this morning it looks like most of the eggs are still there. I'm bummed I'm not ready to raise the fry. I'm sure the clowns will go through an adjustment period once I move them to the breeder set up - So as soon as I'm ready - I'm sure they wont be.

On another note the nem in the pic above split last night. Bonus!

Note to self - do not keep RBTA's in with the pairs once they are settled into the new breeding set up.

So tonight I got home from work and went straight to tank to check on the eggs. I was curious if there where any left and what they'd look like. Well... that Nem that split last night... half of it started walking and it walked right across the eggs!!! That's right, I couldn't tell if there where any eggs because the foot was right where the eggs where supposed to be. All I could do was yell... YOU BASTARD!!!!

An hour later and the nem has now walked on past the eggs. There still appears to be a lot of eggs and the clowns went right back to work taking care of them.

Again... luckily I don't have any intent of raising this fry.

Day 3 Update -

All the eggs are gone. Someone had a midnight snack. Hope they do better next time.

it is very common for them to eat their first spawn. Also the eggs could have suffered some damage from the anemone and thats why they ate them.

also when you get the pairs into a breeding setup just do a bare bottom and a clay pot. Its pointless to have the extra lighting to keep an anemone happy when clay pots work just as well

I deffinately will... the only reason they are in the set up they are in now is because I'm still getting the breeding set up together. I planned on open tanks with pots plumbed into a large sump that will house all my rock and a refugium. The nems and any other corals I have will be moving to a seperate system.

I was curious if they ate them because of damage - if that some how triggered the response. I know two days is a very short time but it looked like until that happened that all the eggs where still there.

fish are very defensive of their eggs. I moved my blennies pot 6" over to the left of my bio cube and then the next day they ate all the eggs. They naturally know that there can be deformities and they know not to take the risk so they eta them

Very cool thread. Will be following.

Sounds pretty exciting. Fun to think I may have a local source for captive bred clowns!

Tagging along - always fun to watch folks get a breeding setup going

And its pretty normal for clowns to eat the first couple of nests - why no idea, they just do

i wouldn't really moving into a breeding tank, just leave them in that tank

huh?

Most successful breeders move the eggs to a "nursery" type tank set up for rearing embryos.

yo yo pickle whats up buddy. I am very dissapointed you did not call me to tell me the good news. I think I should change my name to The Clown Whisperer lmao what do you think glenn lol. ANyway awesome man, Here is the deal if your setting tanks up for breeders like glenn said bare bottom pots. But if this pair has been in their for three years and they just started give them a pot in that tank.I wouldnt necessarily move them directly into a breeder set up as it will throw off the spawns could take up to 4 months or so to resume again. What i would do is put a half pot where the layed get them to lay on a 4 inch half pot. After they do this for two or three times, your going to take the half pot thats 4 inches and place it in a 6 inch pot with the eggs on the 4 inch so they get used to being in the pot while the eggs are there. Doing this you will pull the rbta or anenome they are with and they will host the pot instead. Basically what your doing is luring them into the pot but your using their eggs as bait. It works i promise. When they lay in the pot for 3 oe 4 rimes and your breeder tanks are ready you will take them in the pot while they are sleeping at night. Plug the hole of the pot with your finger make sure clowns are in pot and scoop them out in the pot with the eggs and water and you will bring them directly into your broodstock system. VUALA you wont miss more than one week or two of spawning and they will be ok ready to go.Call me tomorrow or whenever and ill explain further later bro looks like its time to explain the rotifer and larvae dont read to much its simple

Awesome info Eric! Thank you.

Sorry I didn't see this sooner - go figure I don't check my own thread.

I'll give you a call sometime - but I have to prep myself first - Have to get a few cups of coffee in me and get ready for the information overload!


I'll keep updating on my progress.






Keep in mind the tank I have them in now is only temporary. Yes it works but the the primary focus is going to be water quality which is harder to do in a tank that isn't plumbed / fuged or skimmed.

I will deffinately take Erik's advise and move them in the pot with the eggs to the permanent set up. I'm not doing this for a living so if they miss a spawn or two I wont be upset.

I've got plenty of time.






Stay tuned - it's going to be a while yet but you deffinately will have a hook up!






The eggs will go to hatch tank... but that is down the road. Right now I'm still getting the primary holding tanks organized.

Well just 20 days after the first spawn they have spawned again! is that about the normal timing I should expect? 3 weeks? Seems kind of fast. But hey...I'm not going to complain!

As they get more adjusted to spawning with each other it will be every 8 to 10 days.

Here I thought 3 weeks was fast.

Update on the eggs... the clowns treated themselves to an Easter feast. =( I guess I should be happy they held out longer then the first time.

I've added clay pots to my tanks - and they've all taken to them right away. I hope that the next batch are layed in the pot. We shall see.

Starting to progress on my build for my rack.

There has been a lot to consider as it will be 3 levels. Top level housing pairs in 5 seperate tanks. Second level will be a 40 gallon grow out tank with a divider or two. Bottom level will be my sump which is 60 gallons and it will house any media - LR / Cheato - Skimmer - chiller.

Now I'm trying to figure out the best way to set up my return from the sump - Can I do it with one pump? The idea would be to have one PVC pump that branhes off into the 40 on the second level then continues up to the individual tanks on the top level. I was looking at driving it with MJ550 which puts out 1385 gph to account for head loss and it is adjustable. I figure I can control flow to the individual tanks using ball valves.

Does this make sense or does someone see a better way of doing this?

Why did you block my PM? I know what I said was a little harsh but truth is harsh sometimes. But anyways looks like you got something going on?

I blocked your PM because your crying and tears are not worth my time. You are the one that sought me out and started telling me to get a life because I spend too much time here because I made a joke about bonding PVC with peanut butter. In hind sight I see the tourment and damage that I caused you. But for you to keep PM'ing me a week later is a little disturbing.

I'm serious - get help.

As you can see - I have issues with several people so I block them all. Here is a complete list:

"Welcome to your messenger
Members already in your block list


Member Name Options
stevey87 [ Stalking ] [ Edit ] :: [ Delete ] ( Message Ban )



Add a member to block from sending you a PM"

Alright time to get back on track...

If anyone has any advise or suggestions - I'd appreciate it.

Now I'm trying to figure out the best way to set up my return from the sump - Can I do it with one pump? The idea would be to have one PVC pump that branhes off into the 40 on the second level then continues up to the individual tanks on the top level. I was looking at driving it with MJ550 which puts out 1385 gph to account for head loss and it is adjustable. I figure I can control flow to the individual tanks using ball valves.

Does this make sense or does someone see a better way of doing this?

that will technically work, but because one tank is lower than the rest, most of the water will want to go there. you will of course need a ball valve on that outlet, and i expect that you will need to have it almost closed. of course that depends on the size of piping and fittings used. adjusting this valve could be quite finicky.

I think the easiest way would be have one pump for each level of tanks.

another option would be have each top tank drain into the middle tank, and have that tank drain into the sump. but thats kinda strange and probably not ideal for detritus reasons.

hey thanks for the input... I've been looking at different options and I'm leaning towards a gate valve to get more control of the second level water. I deffinately do not want water going from top to middle then back to the sump.



In other news I came on to my thread to check the date of my last spawn which was on the 27th - and figured I was about due for another clutch. I checked the tank and sure enough there is a huge clutch of eggs. I'm going to guess they have been there for a couple of days now since the eggs are a dark color. Typically when first deposited they have been a bright orange and the clowns have always eaten them in the past before the eggs ahve had an opportunity to change or develop.

This is most deffinately the largest clutch yet also I've noticed that the eggs are packed more tightly together and not as spuraticly deposited across the rock.

Go figure ... I give them a clay pot and still lay on the rocks behind the pot. I'm going to leave them alone for right now. I don't want to move the pot or disturb anything as I'm curious if they will raise this clutch to term.

Once in the new set up all they will have is the pot and possibly some time so to limit where they can lay and to make moving the eggs much easier.

Hello old friend

How did I miss this thread??? So you are now a clown breeder, well almost. Neato. You should post some pics of the set-up, I think that would be cool. What are your plans for the most recent eggs? I assume just let them be eaten or whatever until they lay the eggs on the pot?

Hey bro... not a lot to take pics just yet. I have the pairs in 3 20h's which are patiently waiting for me to finish collecting what I need to complete the brood system. I don't want to rush and slap something together as for one it's going to be in my house so I want it to look half decent and I want it to be functional.

I honestly didn't expect to attempt to start trying to raise fry until this summer and I'm still targeting about that time frame. I just got some advise from Christo and made some adjustments and within a week I started getting clutches. I never expected it would happen that fast.

Once the brood system is in place the pairs will not have any nems or rocks in the tank. No distractions. So for now I'm just letting them do what they do naturally.

have you gotten your phyto and rots up and running?

Phyto is going but rots aren't.

I'm not starting the rots until I'm ready to start raising the fry. Amazingly, I ran across a guuy in my local reef club who is breeding maroons. I gave him what he needed to get them started and he is already culturing his rotifers. Best part about it is that I have a local source if my culture crashes and vise versa.

Quick daily update - the male is still caring for the eggs and it doesn't look like he has eaten any this time. Looks like he is getting the hang of it. The eggs are deffinately darker today and swaying as he is blowing on them. I can't make out any eyes or anything like that yet as the eggs are in a awkward position and I don't have the best view of them.

I'm just really encouraged that they've gone this far and haven't become a meal... yet.

OMG i cant believe i miss this thread! Following! and looks like you got your hands full. Good luck!

Hey Tanngu - welcome along for the ride. It's going to be a slow start but this roller coaster should get to the top of that first hill soon enough!

This morning the eggs are still there. Deffinately larger and more defined. Just looked again to see if I can see any more detaill but the anemone has expanded and now blocks my view.

On another front I've always carefully managed my hobies and the amount of money I put into them - my wife wasn't so supportive of the whole reef idea when I first showed up with a tank. So anyhow, I've always paced the money and made sure not too spend a fortune at once - I also have some DIY skills so I'd always do whatever I could to cut costs. Honestly a lot of times I like the DIY stuff better then what I could get in store anyhow. I've been approaching this with the same mentality and the other night the Mrs said, "What are you waiting for with hatching these clowns?" - I told her I was just pacing myself and still doing some research and equiptment gathering and she told me to get going on it. I was a little suprised but I guess someplace along the road she got into it as well, but didn't want to admit it.

I'm still not going to rip out of the gates and go wild with my new found support - but the pace is going to pick up a little!

I'm starting to wonder how long the eggs where there this time before I noticed. This morning the eggs are lighter grey in color and I can see some flashes of silver which appear to be eyes. Most references I've seen show that they should be close to hatching.

Awesome! Keep us posted - will be tagging along!

cool, be prepared the next couple of nights. Turn your pumps off and see if you can snatch any fry up

Amphitrite welcome! Should be some good stuff happening soon. The Mrs layed into me again tonight for not being further along with my set up.

dt... I'll deffinately be watching for a hatch... No point in scooping them this time though. No rotifers. I'm going to target my first hatch for May.

Christo gave me some great information and I've done a ton of research... So I'm going to try to post as much info as I can - sources and all so that if anyone else is going to attempt this they'll have it all layed out.

Well no hatch last night.... I noticed the eggs on the 8th and for all I know they may not be ready for another day or two. I'm a noob to whole "stages of the egg" thing so I'm taking notes and will be better prepared next time as to what to look for. The encouraging part is that they haven't been eaten. I'm happy to know that this pair will take the eggs to hatch without deciding it's snack time.

I turned out the tank lights about an hour ago - and for kicks I turned off the pumps as well.

I just shined a flash light into the tank and found 100's of little swimmers!!! I can't believe how many of them started swimming into the light. The longer I sat and watched the more of them appeared.

My wife thinks it's a sad story... that they'll be fish food in the morning... but I'm more excited then ever!

I'm curious to see if we'll have a new clutch in about 5 days.

Very cool, I've been lurking as well. I'm tagging this one to follow for sure! Thanks for documenting your experience!

Well it is tottaly normal for them to eat the first couple of clutches. Unfortunately it will be difficult to tell if its the parents or the diet. If the eggs are nice and bright orange when layed then i will probbaly say it is the parents. If your eggs are a mustard color or in between mustard and bright orange then it is diet. What you need to do is make sure you have greens in their diet. Like for example A veggie pellet, spirilina, or a frozen blend of greens for fish. To much protein and fats will affect the eggs and their liver as well.Your clowns will probably lay again on saturday and be on a 12 day cycle eventually maybe a 10 day cycle and this is totally normal. Htaching out in the tank and siphoning larvae out is not that hard to do. Exactly what you did is what needs to be done. Flashlight get them all in an area and scopp them out with bowl or a cup and then you can transfer them to a tank with parent water and rotifer. As far as knowing when the eggs are ready its pretty simple. If you go to cvs or walgreens or supermarket get yourself a basic magnifying glass. push the rock or pot or piece of tile to the fornt of the tank and look at the eggs with the most magnified part of the magnifying glass. If the eggs are silver through out they will hatch that night. If they are not silver through out you will see an orange embryo sack in the egg itself Any questions you got my number,. Anddont go crazy reading to much MOFIB is out dated with info, And these books that are out are very out dated, theres many new ways to raise clownfish athat are way simpler.Trial and error buddy youl learn your own efficient way. Hnads on is the best tool for learning. You got my number you know where im at see ya

Erik! Thanks for the information... great stuff! I have introduced a lot of greens into the diet since the first clutch. I read that the parents, just as you mentioned, had been getting too much shrimp and possibly other shell fish in the diet which could lead to eggs that where difficult for the larvae to break through. After I introduced some veggie pellets and flake it made a huge difference in the color of the eggs.


I will be calling you soon as it's time to talk rotifers!


For anyone who is intersted the conditions for the pair that are laying, they are:

Tank temp: 84
Salinity: 1.020
All other tests are reading normal.

My snowflake / Osc pair are starting to clean and maintain their pot. I'm going to start bringing their tank peramiters in line for spawning. The snowflake male should be very close to ready to fertilize.

d bro i got home kids were up lol sorry ill hit you up tomorrow

No worries... you gave me enough this morning to get started. Talk to you tomorrow!

Picture update?