aww i went reef diving in cancun about like 4 times..
got my license but its gonna have to be renewed cuz i didnt go in the year =[
i wish i collected something, but maybe when i go solo i can find something to keep.
i want to go diving in the great barrier once in my lifetime. thats one of my dreams.
i thikn its the most memorable thing when you are swimming in the middle of thousands of fish surrounding you in a current.
i cant wait to go again

i go snorkling for corals all of the time at my local inlet in about 3-6 feet of water. If u look throughout my entire tank thread (link in my sig) there are pics of some sweet zoas i find there including some awesome palyotha grandis which are rare in the wild.

To help OP get back onto the subject at hand, what methods of storage do you all use for after you catch something and are looking for something else?
I've used plastic peanut butter jars with a string attached with a clip to a belt, plastic ziplocks and 5 gallon buckets.
Also, it may be different in other states, but in Florida if they catch you snorkeling without a dive flag, the fine is $150. (personal experience) And lord knows that dive flag is an unbelievable hassle when snorkeling. That's when I hook a bucket or bag to it to get a little help from the line.

i usually do ziplocks with a bucket waiting at shore, othrwise if it is a big colony that wont fit anything i tie an inflated baloon to a rock and leave the colony on the rock, with the baloon floating above the water so i can see it, and i get the colonoy before i leave and wrap it in a wet tshirt. ziplocks are defo the easiest especially with a drawstring bag.
what tools do u use?

I rub up against the rocks, and then when I get out of the water I put all the stuff that's stuck to my wetsuit in a bucket. I caught two decorator crabs and a six armed starfish that way! I also carry a mesh bag that zips closed while I'm diving. I just leave it open and swim around, and I find things in it when I get out of the water. One time I caught a baby red irish lord this way!

The only thing I've ever caught intentionally was my blood starfish.

but that was last summer...they changed the rules since then.

under the July09 printing of the regs...if you are in Florida the only way you are allowed to collect is into flow through buckets, (or similar flow through setup), while in the water before they are transported out of the water and into a live well. Very important to follow this, catches out of a live well are unlicensed catches and come with fines/fishing license suspension etc... I prefer a rule that focuses on "reasonable/best efforts to keep the catch alive", but they haven't made me the King of the Castle yet....A wal-mart cheap live well with batter air pump goes for about $50 or so I think....It has been argued this will do for the regs, but I am not your lawyer, ask FWC etc.. etc....

They also added a new bag limit of 20 total organisms, with a maximum of 5 per species rule. They had/have a problem with non-commercial collectors selling their "poached" catch on Ebay, so that is one way they wanted to curtail it. So if you return home with 6 blue legs, watch out, they can get you on it. The fines are high and multiply with each item over the bag limit... they can be pretty harsh, especially for smaller inverts. I argued for you guys at the Marine Life Workshops....the rest of the commercial industry did not, and no hobbyists showed up....next time there is a meeting of that workshop, try to include it in your calender if you can yardboy and weeber. The specter of thousands of out-of-towners catching their fill before they leave the state makes FWC worry, since they keep no records of recreational catches. Giving them an idea of what you guys do collect, amounts etc... might put them at ease, or maybe they will lay off the live well for 1 anemone that is leaving the ocean right now to be in your tank in 15 minutes rule....either way it is cool to see and meet the divers, hear about the fishery, and learn about this side of the industry. You also get to learn the dock prices of what you get, maybe that will have more of you sign up to attend.

tying balloons to spots shouldn't be done if FL. Sea turtles eat them thinking they are man o' wars and then choke and die etc....illegal and all that....we should, (and I am guilty of this for sure), put a big "make sure you check your local regs, some members may live elsewhere and what is legal there may not be for you" disclaimer in this thread....

also the new regs on zoas are very restrictive....smaller bag limits, new collection restrictions....worth the time checking the new regs....single polyp rule....check it out before you go out again weeber, it has changed since your last trip. From what I understand, and what an FWC staff person said, (not that they are reliable, you really have to ask a lawyer or get a written document from the agency), you are allowed a maximum of 5 polyps, or basically one small frag a day, - BUT, (and here is when it gets dumb), you can not create frags underwater. The zoa colony has to either be collected whole, or not at all. Their wording is difficult, but if you read the actual regs, (the sw fishing regulations they publish are a shortened form), that is what it looks like. So in essence...if you find one colony of zoas, and want to take a little and leave the rest so they can grow back, that is worse, (in the eyes of the regs) then a guy who is greedy and takes the entire colony leaving nothing to grow back...dumb if that is the way it works, but that is what I was told. Hopefully she was wrong though, because that seems nuts to me.

yardboy - were you talking about this guy?
http://reefguide.org/pix/branchinganemone1.jpg

Maybe, not sure though.
http://sealifeinc.net/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=222


So a 5 gallon bucket with a noodle wrapped around the top for flotation and holes drilled in it for "flow-thoruhg" will work but a plastic bag will not. And the holes have to be tiny in case I catch a neon goby.
I got my license early this year and so didn't reread the regs after that. Sigh.
If you get word of more Marine Life Workshops I'd appreciate it. I wonder (and kinda doubt) that they even have them up here as I don't think there are many collectors as the pickings are kinda slim. I know Jack Rudloe over in Panacea, right in the bend, has been a collector for years, but I wonder if his license is restricted since he will not sell to individuals, only schools and research facilities.
All these regs also beg the question of what happens if I buy a 50lot of blue legs from SeaLife for my tank, then when FWD catches me with a neon goby and follows me home to see what else I have and finds those 50 bluelegs? I'm thinking a warning to keep your receipts might be good here.
Thanks John, good info.

it is probably one of those things were you would win because of reasonable doubt no evidence of you taking it etc...but if the guy was a jerk and cited you for it you still have to fight it which is no fun. I am paranoid about those things, I dont like to keep any mangroves bigger than seedlings because I am worried they might say I took a rooted one rather than grow a seed...etc...but I am probably a little irrational about it. I would worry more about receipts if you are selling items, they will probably only knock on your door if you are selling stuff, but if they just see you with a legal catch it they won't give you a hard time I don't think.

the bucket you described would work. I know you like to DIY, but they already have these buckets for bait in the fish section of wal-mart, and for less than the cost of the paint bucket they are pre-drilled for you. For smaller fish they are perfect. Cut the floats away, tie it to the dive flag and you are good to go. Extra gear to carry around is never invited, but at least these tie up well.

different anemone I am pretty sure, might be wrong though. will check out species names on the two. I should look up an anemone field guide, there are a few species out there it seems.

they do focus the workshops around the Keys, but they have them throughout the state because of hearing rules, public access etc... I go when they have them in Ft. Lauderdale. They have a bulletin on them, I should rss it at some point. When I know I will email you.

i think there are more than one species of branching anemone in florida, that is all i found on that front....eh...internet was not made for browsing...need a book....

Jack's been around a long time. Here's a link
Don't know if you have time to read, but his books about the early days of collecting are quite interesting.
As for a field guide to anemones, good luck. I have looked high and low and no luck. I've got the Peterson's Filed Guide to Southeastern and Caribbean Seashores, and it's about as comprehensive as I've found.
Funny too because I have an excellent book on Echinoderms of Florida and the Caribbean, "Sea Stars, Sea Urchins, and Allies" by Hendler, Miller, Pawson and Kier.
Oh, that there was something similar for gorgonians, hexacorals, and anemones.

Yup! Will have to wait till spring.




Where in SoMD are you located? We need to talk.

it is a cool history. i know a few of the older generation collectors from this area, that still go out, some of them are in there 60s and are still out there, when I am chicken up on the shore. I will have to check that link out. A lot of the older generation guys were involved in a lot of research and discovery I bet. People didn't really know much about reefs even just 30 years ago. In your area most of the reef and structure aside from seagrass is artificial right? would be cool if he had a picture of what it used to be like and what it is....

that peterson's field guide is great. covers all the usual finds. i think looking for a taxonomy book might be my next step....hate drawings though....

edit - oh wow, that site is awesome yardboy. you dont really need a field guide with that. He must have like 500 species on there...thanks yardboy! that has to be the coolest website i have been to in awhile.


by the way - what is diving like outside florida? in puget sound? uae?

I'm glad you like it John! I was perusing the library one day and found one of his books, "The Living Dock" I think it was, and afterwards decided to go over that way and see if he was still there. Very much alive an kicking. If you find yourself coming up this way it's definitely worth a foray over that way. I'd never been to the "Big Bend" before but it's a beautiful place. Very similar on land to where I grew up in South Mississippi but with much more "tropical" marine life. While a large percentage of structure here is artificial, there is, particularly as you approach that area, much limestone bottom, remnants of old reefs, that support unique communities of "reef" organisms that can tolerate quite cold water in winter.

Until someone pipes up, I'll relate my one experience in diving the West Coast.
I grew dreaming out of National Geographic’s, Cousteau developing his aqualung, "Beach Blanket Bingo" and surfing on the California coast. Somewhere along the way I missed the part about the water temperatures there. So I get my NAUI license in college, get my cavern license and dive extensively in the Springs of Florida, and immediately upon graduation decide to head to Oregon to dive with the sea lions. I've got a six mil suit that held me in good stead in the 68 degree water of the springs. I figured I could handle it, full of "piss and vinegar" as my Dad used to say.
so we drove along the coast, so very beautiful and different from anything I'd seen before, to Sunset Beach State Park. Late August and the place was practically deserted. Offshore there is a small island and you could see the sea lions lounging on the rocks. Suited up and waded out. The sensation of 55 degree water easing up your legs under the suit was quite a jolt. Pressing on we submerged and headed toward the island, following our compass course. got to about 40 feet and the visibility was, uhh, quite poor, maybe 5 feet, and lots of kelp. Flashes of brightly colored fish and sea stars, but within minutes my bones started chilling and I began to feel quite lethargic. I signaled to my partner to surface and we hadn't gone more than 300 feet toward the island. As we discussed the visibility and cold water we got even colder and realized we better head back to shore. Stripping off our gear and stowing it in the car was tough, with such a feeling of defeat. 2700 miles in a Pinto station wagon with all our camping and dive gear for a 10 minute dive. Took forever to warm back up!

i was cold just reading that. would have been a worse trip though if you stayed in that water for 10 more minutes.

limestone bottom communities are cool. we dont have them here, but I have visited them in the Florida Bay.

I have a California Regulations: Ocean Sport Fishing 2009-2010 pamphlet right here from my uncle with the DFG. Clearly states in plain English. Section 29.05. General (Invertebrates)



I'd like to see what section supersedes this which states the take of anything and everything from anywhere in California is illegal.

Wow, 55 degrees in late august! Where were you guys diving, further up north? Usually in late august the temp down here is in the 68-74 degree range in socal. We were out shooting yellowtail and dorado, you should come further south next time

I agree though, even in the lower 70's california has some freaking freezing water, although it warms up a bit with some baja hurricanes every so often.

california has crazy weather....look at a map and the whole state will be in yellow/red (70/80s), and then you look up zip codes and in the middle of this red and yellow there are freezing areas, abnormally hot areas etc...crazy place. Last time I was there it was 130 in Palm Springs....nuts... San Diego weather is awesome...LA too...

Yep, Coos Bay, Oregon.
I've since been to Vancouver Island BC and the freaking water is colder there. But that time around I was just a bit smarter and rented a dry suit, and had some very satisfying dives. Still not as good as the tropics though. But you certainly have to be tougher in that cold water!

Weakling

You just wait until your hands and feet go numb, and then you can't feel the cold anymore! Works 100% of the time.

I'm actually reading a book right now about ice diving in the arctic and antarctica. The author judges how close he is to hypothermia by how little he can move his limbs. Once his "legs are cramping, [he] can't feel [his] extremities, and the shivering begins to slow down," he knows he has hypothermia and it's time to get out. Now that's coldwater diving!

I'm so glad someone from Oregon chimed in! The part of the story I left out was how we went to a dive shop afterwards, lips still blue and shivering and the chick at the shop looked at us the same way, "Wimps", though she admitted to never diving without a dry suit!
Have you seen the flick, "Encounters at the End of the World"? Very nice vid of divers under the ice in the Antarctica. I was shivering just sitting on the couch!

haha, nice. When I snorkel here I use a 5 mil, last time the water was 53 degrees, and it was a little chilly. Snorkeling is a lot more work than scuba, so I was probably warming myself a little while I was fighting the buoyancy of my wetsuit. The only diving I've done in the NW was my certification in puget sound, but it was a sunny day and the water was 64 degrees. Felt like california!

have not seen the video, sounds cool! I guess I'll recommend the book I'm reading, too. It's actually more photography than writing - It's written by the guy who did the leopard seal story for national geographic, if you saw that. The book is called Polar Obsession, the author is Paul Nicklen. He has some pretty cool stories, and fantastic photos.

ahh, here we go:
http://events.nationalgeographic.com/event...ession-exhibit/

I'd actually love to dive in antarctica. I don't think I'd need to be that close to a leopard seal though.

It's funny though. I have gotten more used to the cold water as I've gotten older, and haven't built up much of a fat layer to explain it. The springs we used to dive with 6 mil suits I know snorkel bare skinned, though as you say I am more active while snorkeling. But I also dive there with just a 3 mil suit now, much less restrictive and I move even less than I did, being more of a photographer now.

so you say.

That's interesting though. I wonder if you're actually adapting, or if you're body is just getting less sensitive, so while it's not uncomfortable, you're actually getting just as cold as you were before?

6'3" - 190 lbs. Not much of one anyway!
I think it's just a mental thing, I don't let myself get as cold, but then my lips haven't turned blue in a long time either!

mental has a lot to do with it....if i am down there and i can't find anything to bring in, it gets much colder...but if there is something to collect, i completely disregard it.

For sure, you put me near some lobsters or fish and I have no idea how cold it is anymore, gotta keep that attention span short

On the other hand, I don't go freediving out here unless it's over 60, other than that it's drysuit and scuba time. Nothing beats a drysuit, it's like lobster diving while sitting on a comfy couch with sweatpants and a hoodie on... While your hands and face are in antartica... And you've really, really gotta pee but can't. Still beats the cold!

you guys kill me. i ask how is it like diving in these northern areas and you tell me it is cold.

big fish? structure? big kelps? macro doesn't get bigger than like 30 inches here. would love to see something 30 feet. do they have kelp forests laying out and about in california? what is there t look at?

I love kelp forests...

Here are a few pictures from my trip to the channel islands, which are off LA:

















btw, these were taken while scuba diving, not free diving

Catalina Dive Park:

eye candy is a great improvement....

man that must be a little spooky the first time you descend into the kelp forest. The can block out the light from all around huh? never know when something will come through there like a seal.

Scott, what is that orange fish called? a Girabaldi? I have seen something like that before...nice fish.

what is the orange spotted fish called jamie? also is that a goby above the lobster in your photo? those blue striped fish look cool. almost like catalina gobies from a distance...

I was swimming through a big patch of kelp once and came across a good sized black sea bass, had to catch my breath after I realized I was holding it. One of the coolest scenes I've ever seen is the sunlight streaming through a kelp forest.

The orange fish is indeed a Garibaldi.

Very nice pics.
The one thing I learned out of those is that spiny lobster occur in that cold of water, on the West Coast. I thought they were Caribbean critters!

same species? how big do they get out west? I have a now defunct lobster company's map to the Keys. I should digitize that at some point before it gets wet. I haven't tried it out yet.

the girabaldi is a cool fish. i think i may have seen it on the Discovery Channel.

I thought the girabaldi were red like in the first pic? Or do they change color as they age like other damsel type fish?

Some copypasta re: the Garibaldi:

The Garibaldi or Garibaldi damselfish (Hypsypops rubicundus) is of the damselfish family, and is native to the north-eastern subtropical parts of the Pacific Ocean, ranging from Monterey Bay, California, to Guadalupe Island, Baja California. It is the official marine state fish of California and is protected in California coastal waters.

The fish is named after the Italian revolutionary Giuseppe Garibaldi, who famously wore a red shirt, as did many of his followers.

Garibaldis are renowned for their brilliant orange color and grow up to 30 cm (12 in) in length. Juvenile Garibaldi have iridescent blue spots which they lose as they become adults. They live at depths of up to 30 meters (100 ft), usually in association with reefs and typically over rocky sea-bottoms. They feed mainly on invertebrates that they remove from the rocks.

Adult Garibaldis maintain a home territory. The male clears a sheltered nest site within his territory, and the female then deposits eggs within the nest. The male subsequently guards the nest until the eggs hatch after 19-21 days. This territoriality makes garibaldi incredibly aggressive, to the point of biting divers.

An interesting feature of the Garabaldi is the ability to change its sex throughout its lifetime. This process is prompted when the ratio of males to females is out of balance. Garabaldis of the over-represented gender will change in order to make up the deficit. This process can be undergone multiple times by the same fish.

That's because they are catalina gobies.

And the orange with blue spots is a juvinile garibaldi - they lose the spots as they age, as stated above.

oh cool. i thought they were catalina gobies, just didnt think i would get that lucky on the guess. so they are hanging out all over the place down there huh? Three in just that picture....It is surprisingly like Florida. Some big colorful fish, some small, some wrasses rays etc.... We have sargassum and dictyota, the Kelp is different but everything else is similar...Hi densities around structure?

anyone have any tips for collecting fish?
or seagrass for that matter, i wanna collect loads of oar grass for my macro tank now

They get pretty big, my biggest is in the 11lb range but I've let some bigger ones go since I try to only take males. They're similar to the caribbean ones except that their legs are shorter and they tend to be quite a bit slower, especially the bigger ones. The flavor tends to be a lot richer too, great on the bbq

For fish, ya gotta be quick! Professionals use mist nets, real fine monofilament that they chase the fish into. I've onyl ever used regular hand nets, and have been limited in my success as a result. But my wife can catch practically any fish she sees. And If I see one that is unusual or rare that I want, I get her to catch it for me. Man, I hate to confess that.
Oar grass I'm not familiar with collecting, pretty much generally illegal to collect in Florida. But from the notes of others it needs bright light and water movement, plus some element of luck. Also, the tops will often die back but the roots will grow and send up new shoots. John will have more on that than I do though.

no ideas on UAE laws, here you have to get it in drift.

there are tricks to catching fish....

use both hands, the trick is to scare the fish into the net, not to scoop the fish up by chasing it with the net. tickle sticks work better on tropicals than lobster....that is all you get for now. The fish targeted will determine the best netting method to use, but for most fish a hand net and a tickle stick does the trick.

yeah here monofilament nets are illegal and i have very limited luckwith a hand net xD
i might get a bigger net and try with a tickle stick, maybe it will yield more luck

yeah yardboy i have collected shoal grass that has lived in my tank under 23w energy savers, it dosent grow very fast but it lives, i wanna get some oar grass and fill my tank though, i guess ill have to experiment. from what ive read the rhizome is very sensitive.

how does your wife catch fish so well?

I agree that the best way is to hold one net still and use a stick, or another net, to chase fish into it. I can add that I have the most success when I place the net so that local structure funnels fish into it. Try to figure out where the "exit" for any scared fish will be (like a gap between two large rocks), and put your net just outside of it. I also think a fish is more willing to enter a big net than a small net.

An option I haven't tried myself is a slurp-gun, which is basically an acrylic tube three or four inches in diameter and about three feet long, with a piston inside attached to a stick. Pull hard on the stick and suck up any fish near the end. Just Google slurp gun to buy one, or learn how to make one.

Slurp guns are (supposedly) rather hard on the fishes; sand in the gills, etc.

We used 'em a lot when I was a kid. Just nets now.

did they work? I never had any luck with slurp guns. I had one when I first got a tank, dropped it in the ocean at some point and never bothered with them. they just didnt have much pull and you had to get so close that you might as well have a net...


anyone chum dive a barrier net setup? too easy.....


the pros around here though I found out do a ton of chemical fishing. I was kind of surprised by that, but every diver I have talked to now admits they use quinaldine often. Not sure about quinaldine...

ive been diving commercially and recreational for over 15 years. where i live are some of the best dives in the world or at least the mainland. i do not however collect anything from the ocean. id rather leave it there and watch it grow in its own environment. i like to try to use it as a reference for my little piece of reef. however any edible fish and lobsters do not stand a chance, they all fall victim to the sling.

The slurp gun, best I can remember, worked well enough for fishes that "holed up", like little gobies or cardinalfish or such. Stuff that swam around too much, like butterflies and french angels, had to be netted.

I don't really mind anyone collecting for their tank, as long as they are being responsible, taking only single-or-paired fishes or small samples of colonies, etc. To me, even if it's violating the letter of a given regulation, if it's serving the spirit of careful and diligent collection, observation and husbandry then it's OK by me.

I realize that ain't gonna hold up in court...

I feel the same way...as long as you take a sustainable amount then it is fine. The aquarium industry is much smaller than it looks on NR, the fishery is pretty well managed too....The only real dangers I see are when the regs dont keep up with the hobby. There is a lot of catching up for them to do too...

anyone else ever try larval fish collection?

how do you feel about hookah rigs? does anyone have any experiences outside of Brownies?

OHHHHH the Hookah!

Remember if your by yourself you have an addiction, but if your with a few friends don't forget to PUFF PUFF PASS!

"Z"