Aeridne
Nov 9 2009, 10:13 PM
Hey all, I'm upgrading my 10 gallon tank to a 46 gallon bowfront with a large sump. I made a list of fish that I would like to get for the tank though I would like some feedback on my choices. I think I may have too many fish on the list, and I am aware of that
Also, if anyone could give me some tips on which order to add them in, because the aggresiveness of some of them. thankss!
What I already have in my 10 gallon:
False perc. Clown
Hi fin red banded goby with shrimp
Court jester goby
What I want in the new 46g along with the 3 fish I already have: (I know the list is long) I'm unsure of how many fish I can have and I'll have to figure that out later when I decide the exact size of my sump.
1) Flame Angelfish or Lemonpeel Angelfish (both very small)
2) Royal gramma
3) Black cap basslet
4) Tail spot blenny
5) Bicolor blenny (maybe)
6) Pakistan butterflyfish
7) Kaudern’s cardinal or spotted cardinal
8) Black and white ocellaris clown
9) Mated pair yellowstripe maroon clowns
10) Sergeant major damselfish or blue sapphire damselfish
11) Firefish (though I won’t have a lid, so they may be out)
12) very small one spot foxface
13) Blue dot jawfish or yellowhead jawfish (would be cool, but again, jumpers)
14) Sixline wrasse
I appreciate any advice!
fishieCJ
Nov 9 2009, 10:40 PM
ill go down your with my answers
1)flame angel sounds good
2)Good
3)Good
4)Good
5)Good
6)Sorry no go on the Butterfly
7)Good
8-9) You need to choose between the pair or the single, the pair will single out the B&W and very aggressive towards it
10)Damsels are always a no go for me because of their aggression but if you can find a small one maybe it will work.
11)Nope firefish love to jump
12)Maybe
13) Most reefer like to keep jawfish in a species tank because they jump and loke to redecorate your live rock.
14)Good
This is just my suggestion but I hope it helps
johnmaloney
Nov 9 2009, 11:40 PM
angels can be trouble in smaller tanks, even if they are dwarf angels...but they are a great fish....
blennies are always cool, as are all gobies. I never had a firefish jump, but I have heard of it.
i like damsels, especially really small juvie sgt. majors...most people don't but if you get them when they are under 1cm, and the rest of the fish are bigger, they can be fun to keep. can get territorial though, feeding them some algae i think helps to keep them calm.
sixline would fit in well with the sgts and clowns
jawfish are cool
grammas and blackcaps are cool, can be skiddish but i like them...
really nice list there I like all cardinals too...I would skip 6 and 12 personally, but that is just me.
ajmckay
Nov 9 2009, 11:44 PM
Woah Nellie!
Good luck on your new tank. In addition to your 3 fish, I would say you could probably do well with about 4 of the fish on your list, but don't quote me on that. It depends more on which fish you actually choose, and what else you want in the tank. The sump may help a little, but it's not a free pass to add fish all day.
How much research have you done on these fish individually? Personally, I would recommend you research each of the fish on your list (and others if you haven't already) and get to know their care requirements and compatibilities.
You've got quite a spread there. If you have specific questions, such as "will fish A be compatible with fish/invert b?" you'll get much better answers here on the forum with specific questions rather than these huge ones. I don't think anyone is going to take the time to go through your entire list and give you a really good, fact-based answer. Sure I can tell you my opinion (even if it is based on fact), but what does that profit you if I don't give a detailed explanation why? There are books written on this subject.
Aeridne
Nov 10 2009, 12:16 AM
Thanks for the responses, guys.
Yeah, Good point ajmckay, I did ask a very broad question. As for research on the fish, I haven't really done much other than basic requirement checks like tank size, aggressiveness, food requirements and overall reef compatibility. I was going for seeing what others suggested and then narrowing down my list, while doing the research on fish I think will definitely fit in with my tank. Also, I've been thinking about just going up to a 50 gallon tank. I like the 46 bow, but the bow part may mess with my eyes and viewing of the tank, and is also less swim room than the straight 40g br.
Anyway, this was just a starting point in order to make sure I was on the right track and not completely off in expectations for the tank.
revaltion131
Nov 10 2009, 09:12 AM
QUOTE (Aeridne @ Nov 9 2009, 10:13 PM)

Hey all, I'm upgrading my 10 gallon tank to a 46 gallon bowfront with a large sump. I made a list of fish that I would like to get for the tank though I would like some feedback on my choices. I think I may have too many fish on the list, and I am aware of that
Also, if anyone could give me some tips on which order to add them in, because the aggresiveness of some of them. thankss!
What I already have in my 10 gallon:
False perc. Clown
Hi fin red banded goby with shrimp
Court jester goby
What I want in the new 46g along with the 3 fish I already have: (I know the list is long) I'm unsure of how many fish I can have and I'll have to figure that out later when I decide the exact size of my sump.
1) Flame Angelfish or Lemonpeel Angelfish (both very small)
If you do an angel, just pick one. This tank size is too small to be sure they won't fight.2) Royal gramma
Fine.3) Black cap basslet
Fine.4) Tail spot blenny
Fine5) Bicolor blenny (maybe)
Fine, but just do one blenny.6) Pakistan butterflyfish
No. I had one in my 65 and honestly that ended up being too small for it, and the fish was nowhere near adult yet.7) Kaudern’s cardinal or spotted cardinal
Fine.8) Black and white ocellaris clown
Fine. Have it ready to go into the display the day that you move your other clown and introduce them together.9) Mated pair yellowstripe maroon clowns
Big fat no. Just no. You already have a pair of clowns and this one gets huge and mean. Really bad idea.10) Sergeant major damselfish or blue sapphire damselfish
Maybe. Pick a smaller damsel of the Chrysiptera perhaps. My concern is size and aggression here.11) Firefish (though I won’t have a lid, so they may be out)
No firefish without a lid, and especially not if you get some of the more aggressive fish on this list.12) very small one spot foxface
No, needs a bigger thank.13) Blue dot jawfish or yellowhead jawfish (would be cool, but again, jumpers)
Would be fine but as you said, jumpers.14) Sixline wrasse
Fine but it's a jumper as well. I also hate the the fish personally, but they get better as tank's get bigger.I appreciate any advice!
Keep the list in the 7 or under range IMO, maybe go for 8, but definitly all 14 in addition to the three you already have. Look at the quote for my comments on each fish.
Aeridne
Nov 10 2009, 10:11 AM
thanks revelation, that was very helpful. Since I haven't done any in depth research about the individual fish yet (just looked at basic stuff to come up with the list) I had no idea the maroon clowns were so aggressive.
Is an odd number of clowns of three different types a bad idea as well? say a black & white and false perc and a tomato? again, I haven't looked into the black & white and tomato types yet, I only know about the false perc which I already have.
yeah, i've already crossed off firefish, jawfish and butterfly fish too.. And I will cross off maroon clowns now, I don't want to have fights in my tank, obviously.
fewskillz
Nov 10 2009, 10:24 AM
QUOTE (Aeridne @ Nov 10 2009, 11:11 AM)

Is an odd number of clowns of three different types a bad idea as well? say a black & white and false perc and a tomato? again, I haven't looked into the black & white and tomato types yet, I only know about the false perc which I already have.
yeah, i've already crossed off firefish, jawfish and butterfly fish too.. And I will cross off maroon clowns now, I don't want to have fights in my tank, obviously.
I was pretty much going to say exactly what revelation said, even about the sixline. Big no on the Tomato clown, they're just as bad as maroons. Just stick to your current ocellaris and the planned black occelaris. They will make a nice, entertaining pair. Plus why waste an available fish slot on another clown? You want variety!
You'll love the 46 bow, I wish I never sold mine!
Aeridne
Nov 10 2009, 10:30 AM
QUOTE (fewskillz @ Nov 10 2009, 08:24 AM)

I was pretty much going to say exactly what revelation said, even about the sixline. Big no on the Tomato clown, they're just as bad as maroons. Just stick to your current ocellaris and the planned black occelaris. They will make a nice, entertaining pair. Plus why waste an available fish slot on another clown? You want variety!
You'll love the 46 bow, I wish I never sold mine!
Thanks! Yeah, I will skip the tomato, I just looked into the species and they'll fight with other clowns too.. no go. Also, yeah I realized that i've been calling them percs, but they are occelaris, duh.
So you did love the 46 bow? I was thinking the other night that the bend of the glass in the front may be annoying to look through. Did you experience this, or was it awesome for viewing? I was thinking about going for a 50g if the bowfront may be bad in that aspect, or I suppose a 40g br, but I may as well up the gallons rather than take them away..
ajmckay
Nov 10 2009, 02:23 PM
+1 on the clownfish comments. I suppose that's one of the issues with saltwater tanks. Fish that get along fine in the ocean don't get along so well in small tanks. Clowns (& damsels), angels, and many other fish are not tolerant of others of their own species (with mated pairs/harems being exclusions of course) or even similar looking fish.
I think a sixline would be a good fish to add for your tank. The aggression issues typically happen in much smaller tanks. That said I wouldn't add it first.
Usually you want to stock your fish from least aggressive to most aggressive. If you add 2 or more of a single species they usually go in at the same time though. (i.e. add your new clown and old clown to the new tank at the same time). I say usually, because there are special cases.
Finally, get a positive I.D. on your clownfish. A. Ocellaris and A. Percula are different species. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that most of the black colorations are only possible with A. Ocellaris.
Oh, and do yourself a favor and invest in a quarantine tank! It'll save you a lot of trouble eventually, I promise.
Aeridne
Nov 10 2009, 05:44 PM
QUOTE (ajmckay @ Nov 10 2009, 12:23 PM)

+1 on the clownfish comments. I suppose that's one of the issues with saltwater tanks. Fish that get along fine in the ocean don't get along so well in small tanks. Clowns (& damsels), angels, and many other fish are not tolerant of others of their own species (with mated pairs/harems being exclusions of course) or even similar looking fish.
I think a sixline would be a good fish to add for your tank. The aggression issues typically happen in much smaller tanks. That said I wouldn't add it first.
Usually you want to stock your fish from least aggressive to most aggressive. If you add 2 or more of a single species they usually go in at the same time though. (i.e. add your new clown and old clown to the new tank at the same time). I say usually, because there are special cases.
Finally, get a positive I.D. on your clownfish. A. Ocellaris and A. Percula are different species. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that most of the black colorations are only possible with A. Ocellaris.
Oh, and do yourself a favor and invest in a quarantine tank! It'll save you a lot of trouble eventually, I promise.
Yeah, i'm still learning about the same species aggression thing, but at least this way, I can have a variety of nice fish instead of all the same fish.
I am actually really excited about getting the sixline. I read the sixline wrasse club thread and they seem like a very good option, in my opinion.
Soon i'll come up with the completed-ish list of what i'll be going for in this tank and post my fish stocking in the order that I think they should be added (according to my future research

) and I would very much appreciate feedback then as well. Thanks for commenting guys, it really is helpful!!
I will go on a quest to figure out the true nature of my clown, I promise! If it is the same as the black and white that I want to add, will they possibly become a mated pair? or is that something that just doesn't happen that way?
As for quarantine tank, the 10g that I will be breaking down will then convert into the quarantine tank. I definitely don't want to run into problems with the larger tank because they seem like they would be harder to resolve and work with...
Aeridne
Nov 10 2009, 10:42 PM
Ok here is a potential list, still maybe too many fish (though I don't personally think so because some of the fish are small gobies) in order of adding them to the tank:
1) black and white clown- along with previous fish to new tank
2) citrinis clown goby
3) tail spot blenny
4) royal gramma
5) sergeant major damselfish
6) sixline wrasse
7) flame angelfish
Please let me know your opinions of my list and if anything needs to be switched around, thanks!
ajmckay
Nov 10 2009, 11:59 PM
Your fish list is coming along nicely, but In a 46 I would say there's a good chance of some aggression issues with the gobies.
Damsels and clownfish are aggressive
Angel and wrasse are semi-aggressive.
The RG will probably be okay, and you might want to trade the tail-spot for a bicolor blenny, which are larger.
The gobies, especially the clown and jester gobies will most likely have issues.
Aeridne
Nov 11 2009, 12:12 AM
QUOTE (ajmckay @ Nov 10 2009, 09:59 PM)

Your fish list is coming along nicely, but In a 46 I would say there's a good chance of some aggression issues with the gobies.
Damsels and clownfish are aggressive
Angel and wrasse are semi-aggressive.
The RG will probably be okay, and you might want to trade the tail-spot for a bicolor blenny, which are larger.
The gobies, especially the clown and jester gobies will most likely have issues.
I suspected you may say that. I sort of thought about the gobies for a second possibly having problems. I think I excluded it because my current two gobies work fine together in only 10g with the clown (actually, the court jester and my clown AN OCELLARIS btw

are really good buddies and hang out together non-aggressively)... but you are most likely on to something. I just wanted to find a fish with a yellow pop of color to balance the blue of the sergeant major damsel, and I really love the tail spot blennies. I've really wanted one, but I didn't want to put one in the 10g because I felt it was too small of a space for him.
So, so far I know that in the small space I already have, my court jester and clown get along just dandy. Though I don't obviously know what adding another clown will do, but I was hoping the large amount of space would help the potential aggression... who knows.
Oh, on a side not, while I really very much want to have a sergeant major fish, I would most likely settle for a smaller less aggressive damsel like a blue sapphire (I think I remember them being more peaceful).
thanks for all your input, I really appreciate it!
lakshwadeep
Nov 11 2009, 12:15 AM
go to wetwebmedia.com and check their fish articles. Since you have the most important information (identification), it should be easy to research each group separately. Sorry if this isn't that helpful, but I can't see how you would find such specific names like "pakistan butterfly" without also learning some compatibility information.
A flame angel and tailspot blenny are both herbivores, which is a bad combination for any "not large" tank.
ajmckay
Nov 11 2009, 12:21 AM
Fang blenny... Yellow as all get out and an interesting fish to boot.
Aeridne
Nov 11 2009, 12:22 AM
QUOTE (lakshwadeep @ Nov 10 2009, 10:15 PM)

go to wetwebmedia.com and check their fish articles. Since you have the most important information (identification), it should be easy to research each group separately. Sorry if this isn't that helpful, but I can't see how you would find such specific names like "pakistan butterfly" without also learning some compatibility information.
A flame angel and tailspot blenny are both herbivores, which is a bad combination for any "not large" tank.
This will probably sound silly, but I just skimmed through liveaquaria.com and briefly looked at all the fish and their basic needs according to that website to come up with a rough list. I've looked into the fish separately once I narrowed it down, though.
Thanks for the website, i'll definitely look into that. And thanks for the angel, blenny tip.. can you give me a little more info maybe on why two herbivores can't be together in a "not large" (large meaning 75+???) tank? I honestly don't know yet and need to look into it, still learning.
QUOTE (ajmckay @ Nov 10 2009, 10:21 PM)

Fang blenny... Yellow as all get out and an interesting fish to boot.
Interesting, I'll go look that up!
edit: looked that up, pretty cool looking and definitely yellow- plus, it's an omnivore! so no double herbivore problem?
fewskillz
Nov 11 2009, 05:31 PM
I would definitely look at a calmer damsel such as a yellow tail or a fiji blue devil (the yellow bellied variety).
The no double herbivore thing is simply a supply and demand problem with the food source. If you're planning to supplement with some Nori or something you'll be fine.
The sixline still scares me. Mine is an @$$hole. He's pretty, and tough as nails, but damn is he mean, and thats in a 125 with tangs, clowns, and damsels! I would look into a prettier, more peaceful wrasse such as a flasher or fairy wrasse. But, if you really like sixlines it really all comes down to the individual personality of the fish and the luck of the draw. Most people say they don't have problems with theirs, so I'd say its a safe risk. It's definitely a safer risk than the Srgt. Major.
Royal Grammas are hit or miss also, but it's a better option than say a bicolor dottyback. Probably a safe risk also.
Good luck!
lakshwadeep
Nov 11 2009, 10:58 PM
QUOTE (fewskillz @ Nov 11 2009, 05:31 PM)

The no double herbivore thing is simply a supply and demand problem with the food source. If you're planning to supplement with some Nori or something you'll be fine.
^^^
I suggest deciding to go only with peaceful fish or semi-aggressive species.
Aeridne
Jan 13 2010, 09:56 AM
Thanks for the input, guys. I know it's been awhile, just got caught up in the semester ending and didn't see your comments. I'll definitely pick through my list several more times before deciding what would go best together. I have time though, because i've decided not to set up the tank until the middle of may when I move into a different house. At least this way, I won't have to move a 46g tank and sump, etc.
Anyway, I really appreciate the help. I only have experience with small fish like gobies...
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