Hello All,

Just getting back into SW aquariums after a long absence and am enjoying them just as much as before. I decided to go with a JBJ with the power compact lighting to avoid the cost of a chiller and just would like some help from those who have been there as I go through this process. Any feedback and/or tips are appreciated.

I intend to make this a reef setup and was curious if anyone had information that might be useful on the following topics:

1. How many fish would be considered a maximum? I plan to have clownfish as my primary fish, maybe a goby or some other smaller species too...

2. What is the recommended order in which I introduce the fish, CC, and other corals (what I can have - I understand that I should stay away from the stonies due to the power compact lighting)

3. Installing a refugium with Cheato into the rear chamber of the JBJ with a Nano-glow LED light from JBJ for that purpose. Anyone try this? Options, thoughts?

Right now the tank is on day 22, all levels are good and stable - thinking of letting it go another week before adding anything else, just to be sure.

40 pounds of Live Sand - Caribsea Arag-Alive Bahamas Oolite
~25 pounds of Live Rock - cured from the LFS
JBJ Protein Skimmer
2 Damsels - they cannibalized the 3rd (a domino damsel)
Extra powerhead -Hydor Koralia 1

Here are some low-quality pictures that I just took. I imagine that they would look better if I cleaned the aquarium glass better and took them at night - but I would appreicate any helpful camera settings to use other than the "aquarium" setting by default.

Thank you very much.



Side-View I should note that I added CaribSea PurpleUp this morning and the tank is noticeably cloudier than before I added it - the package says that it is normal so hopefully it will clear up by the end of the day.

And the other side - note the dirty tank walls.

I'll let others comment on the fish, but I dig that scape, and ditch the purple up for a 2-part solution, it's junk.

Thanks for the comment on the scape - sucks that it has to come down when I have to net the damsels, but oh well, I'll be able to make a new one.

Thanks also for the head-up on the PupleUp - any suggestions for a 2-part? Also - is it even worth finishing the bottle out or should I actaully junk it?

I would not do more than 4 fish.

junk the purple up

bulk reef supply 2 part starter kit.

scape looks good.

Thanks for the quick responses all - I will junk the PurpleUp.

No need for the starter kits they cost more than buying it all seprate.

Thank you.

Has anyone put Cheato in the OEM filter chamber in the JBJ 28G with the Nano-Glo LED light?

I have a 28HQI and am looking into this the Cheato also. I keep three fish and many different corals. Get rid of the JBJ Protein Skimmer it is a piece of s&^t. If you are using the center camber for the fuge you are going to need a hang on filter. Also ditch the PurpleUp if you have corline allready just keep the calc at good levels and it will take care of itself.

I use cheato in my middle chamber of my 24 nanocube. I also use the led glo in the rear. I just cut the black vinyl off, set it on a timer and it works great.

Thanks for the info. Based on the feefback I guess the purchase of the PupleUp was a total waste of money - oh well, it was cheap.

What is the draw-back from using the center compartment, under the filter sponge (which I plan to replace with floss) for the cheato? I understand that a small powerhead for extra flow may be required, but he mfg indicates that location for a fuge. I'm guessing some chemi-pure elite in the bottom too.

I am trying to avoid adding a hang-on anything right now, so I am looking for ways to utilize the existing space to its maximum.



That sounds like exactly what I am thinking of doing. the 28 doesn't have the black vinyl either, so that should make it easier. Did you keep the sponge on top to catch the particles, or change to floss? Are you running a skimmer?

thanks.

There is no drawback to using the center compartment, but IMO i would worry more about the skimmer then the fuge.

Can you tell me what the problem is with the skimmer? I've heard people saying that it is junk, but all I see is that it provides me with about 1/2" in nasty brown water each day that I can dump easily and move on. I also see people extolling the virtues of the Remora skimmer - what is the reasoning for one over the other - am i doing harm to my tank with the JBJ skimmer?

thank you.

No skimmer yet. I run carbon filter pads in the first chamber, live rock at the bottom of 1 and 2, and cheato in the middle chamber, heater in the 3rd. I also took pet screen and wrapped it around a piece of eggcrate to stop the cheato from clogging the pump.

I would say that 6 fish is a heavy bioload, I wouldn't exceed 5. it also depends on the size of the fish, you could have 2 clownfish, another clownfish sized fish and 2 small gobies and be okay.

2 clowns, & 1-2 gobies would be good

I have a maroon clown, purple firefish, pj cardinal, and arch eye hawk in my 24g. I have a 3g refugium so it adds up to about the same as your tank.

Hope you have another tank to put that maroon into when he/ she gets older. They will get big and real aggressive especially if they have a nem.

Anyone out there???

There are a lot of reasons why the stock skimmer is not ideal(bubble size, bubble quantity, contact time, air driven, etc.). Once you start stocking the tank with fish, that skimmer will probably not keep up. But many people run tanks without protein skimming, you just have to keep on top of the parameters and water changes. I have the same tank as you and use the Remora. I have 5 fish(was 6, just removed a damsel that was nipping at my SPS!) and I skim pretty wet. There is no way the stock skimmer would keep up with my bioload. It is a little loud, but a very good skimmer. No modding to open the hood and the pump goes in the skimmer compartment.

Thanks Kgoode25,

I will have to upgrade the skimmer then, I guess - my fault for not doing the research prior to buying and wanting something to fit into the back tank with 0 mods required. The remora hangs on the back, right? Have you put any cheato in the back middle chamber or anywhere in the back chamber for that matter?

I just spotted my first hitchhiker!

It looks to me like it is a feather duster - does anyone have a recommendation on what to feed it?

thanks.

Yeah, in this hobby research is never-ending. The remora does hang on the back(HOB). I got the one with the MJ1200 pump and I did cut the input end(about an 1/8-1/4 inch) with a dremel to make it a little easier to fit in the protein skimmer compartment.

As for the media compartment, I ended up making a rack(http://shop.mediabaskets.com/Nano-Cube-24-Media-Basket-NC24MR.htm, not sure if this would work or not if you don't want to manufacture something) out of eggcrate b/c I did not like the way the stock rack let water flow past it. I made it with a large middle chamber for media or macro, but I don't put anything in there just using filter floss on the very top. I am actually running carbon passively in the heater compartment b/c it is easier to get to.

I am not running cheato b/c I am carbon dosing(using zeostart2), but you definitely could do so in the middle compartment. The best thing to use would be an underwater light(http://shop.mediabaskets.com/Underwater-5W-Single-Light-5WLight.htm) b/c the remora is going to be behind the middle compartment.

HTH



Keep the water parameters up and water changes and it will do fine. No need to add anything to feed a feather duster. Once you start getting some livestock in the tank, these guys will probably start spreading around the tank.

Thanks for the great information! I will look into the links and keep my eyes open for a deal on the remora.

I am contemplating stocking the tank with both a B&W Ocellaris Clown as well as an Amphiprion ocellaris (standard percula clown/Nemo) - does anyone know of any potential problems with mixing these breeds?

Thank you.

hows it going with the tank? i have same tank and love it
been setup up for over a year and going strong.

I have alot of fish but upgraded the skimmer and do weekly water changes.
I have 2 clowns, YWG, Six line wrasse, Tailspot and a blue spot jawfish

All live happy together

best luck with tank

Thank you - the tank is doing great. I'm in it now about a month and all levels are great. I can start to add fish and whatnot now so the fun is just beginning. I guess that I'll be adding an AquaC Remora skimmer and maybe using the back chambers for LR rubble and Cheato at some point in the future. But for now it's the question of what to buy first livestock-wise.

Cleaning Crew? Anything that focuses on the algae on the glass that can be recommended? Snails? I have to
get something that will help keep me from using the magnets every day.

Mixing clownfish varieties, as listed above, any issues there?

How long to wait before introducing other items, like corals, polyps, etc.? One before the other, tank placement, etc.

thoughts on these items?

I think you can get away with that, but you need to put them in the tank at the same time for better results. I'm not sure if you need to get a small one and a larger one, that is mostly for breeding. Someone with more clown experience will probably chime in on this. I have a B&W O and he is an awesome fish, no major problems with anyone in the tank. My stocking list on fish is...

1 - B&W Ocellaris
2 - Firefish
1 - Watchman Goby
1 - Mystery Wrasse

I have no plans on adding anyone else to the tank. I did look at adding a pistol shrimp for the goby, but my wrasse will probably take him out. He has already eaten my one peppermint shrimp and about 10 hermits. These guys love crustaceans! I've just been adding snails to replace the hermits.

If everything is testing out good on the tank, your probably ready for a fish or two to get started(hold off on anymore till you get the skimmer up and running) and the clowns would be a good starting choice. Good luck!

As for the cleaning crew, I would probably start out with 8-10 blue-legged hermits, a couple of scarlets and 4 cerith and 4 nassarius snails. The crabs will stick mostly to your rocks and the snails with venture in the sand and glass, from my experience. This should get you started.

On the corals, if you are testing zero on ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, you are probably good to go. I would consider testing your calcium(420-450ppm) and alkalinity(8-10dKh) also. If you keep up with water changes to start with you should be good. I would start with a few softies to get the feel for it. Each coral is different, so do a little research to figure out placement and water parameters.

Thank you both for the information - I can't wait to get started. Once I trap and remove the damsels I plan to rearrange the LR prior to adding the new fish/CC/Coral. I placed it a little too close to the side walls of the tank and have a difficult time cleaning a couple of spots. Once that's done and the tank settles I add something and then take/post a couple of pictures.

After 42 days I finally found some fish that I wanted to put into the tank - a mated-pair of Black&White Ocellaris Clownfish.

I also picked up another half dozen hermits and my first coral, a multi-colored Zooanthid. I'm very happy to have them all in the tank and now I have to trap the damsels and get them out. Anyone have any luck with that? I've made my water-bottle trap, now I just have to put it into the tank with some food and hope that he damsels take the bait.

Here are some updated photos of my new scape and the new family members.

The LFS recommended a bubble-tip anenome for my 2 B&W Clowns - is there any problem or anything that I should avoid with this suggestion?

BTA's(Bubble Tip Anemone's) require stable parameters. most people say to at the least have a tank set up for 6 months before adding one to make sure the tank is suitable. also they need some pretty strong light, and i'm not sure what type of lights are on your 28. other then that if your tank has the requirements of the anemone then your clowns will host it quite fast. i have 2 pairs of clowns in my 62G. they have hosted a GBTA, Seabe Anemone, Torch, Zoas, Toad, and sps for some odd reason lol. pretty funny though to see them lay and swim around in different corals different days. but for now one of the pairs is with a nem and the other with a torch.

clown-hosting anemones (and most any anemone) generally do not fare well in nano's, and typically they require pristine water conditions, the highest quality/quantity light (think MH or lots of high-power LEDs) you can get, and the tank must be made anemone-proof, as they tend to wander around looking for a suitable spot and can get shredded in the pumps, or sucked into the return grate and annihilated.

If you are looking to get a clown host, a torch or hammer would be much easier to keep (elegance are known hosts, but get quite large), although they still will require better lighting than the stock PC light in that hood.

If your LFS RECOMMENDED an anemone to you, knowing you just started the tank, then that tells me they are looking for a sale, rather than a trusting, repeat customer that looks to them for good advice. I heartily recommend supporting your LFS, but when one recommends an anemone in cases like this, or 3 yellow tangs in a 55g (because tangs do better in groups of 3 or more BS), I'd consider looking around for other LFS' to spend my hard earned at.

I have to agree with the other posters, you don't have to have an anemone for the clowns. Since you are just starting out, I would not recommend them. You need a well established tank, they move where they want and could kill corals, more trouble than it's worth. I have a B&W O and he is fine without one. I also have a torch and frogspawn and he is not interested in hosting them, though I have read where other people have had success here. The torch and frogspawn are also easy corals to keep, so it won't hurt to add them

Take what information you get from your LFS with a grain of salt. I would definitely be suspect if they know about your tank and are trying to sell you an anemone. There are good LFS out there and plenty of bad ones.

Do some more research on anemones if you are really interested in housing one. Knowledge is the best way to make that decision.

The tank is looking good, I like the scape! Too bad you will have to pull it all out to get the damsel. I just got my damsel out a couple of weeks ago and had to pull out about 3/4 of the rock. You can try a trap, but the sure fire way to get him out is to net him. I would go ahead and get him out b/c you will probably have issues with him down the road. Damsels in nanos only work when they are the only fish IME. Good luck!

If you're not in a huge hurry to trap the fish, you can try to acclimate them to a net by dipping the net in and leaving it in during feedings. I start with a medium to large net and just leave it stationary near the side of the tank while they eat. Eventually you should be able to get them eating out of the net itself.

It takes time, but if you keep up with it, it's not a bad idea to always feed them from the net as it will eventually save you a lot of grief chasing fish around.

This does help! The net becomes part of the tank to them

To the OP:

I'm in the same boat as you- I've been out of the hobby for 3 years now and just got the same tank.

Here's my planned stock list:

• 2 - Ocellaris Clowns
• 1 - Yellow Watchman Goby

That's all I have set in stone for now.

My ideas include some combination of the below:

• 2 - Bangaii Cardinals
• 1 - Flame Angel or Coral Beauty
• 1 - Neon Goby
• 1 - Mandarin - Only if I can find one that feeds on frozen @ the LFS

Before anyone jumps on me - I'm not planning on all of the fish, just some of the 2nd list - whatever I decide to get as time goes on.

good decision on not mixing clownfish breeds. Your pair looks great

trained mandarins are hard to find.

4-5 small (smaller than an ocellaris/percula clown) fish is a good guide, but dwarf angels are not small fish (count them as equal to 2 small fish).

Now that I have the 2 B&W Ocellaris in tank, how much/often/type of food is recommended? I have a fortified brine shrimp (Hikari frozen flat pack with the gold label) that the LFS told me to feed 1/3 of a cube to the 3 damsels every other day.

Thoughts? Thanks.

Marine Snow and Kent Marine Essential Elements - ??

The same LFS that gave me the "bad" advice on the BTA also sold me some Marine Snow as well as the Essential Elements - I did not believe that my current livestock setup required either of these, especially since I water-change with real ocean water which has the elements included already - but I really didn't mind supporting them with an additional $20 if it meant helping them keep their doors open in this economy as they are the best-stocked LFS in the area.

Can anyone tell me if these are totally worthless or if there is a benefit to either or both?

Thanks.

Current setup:

28 JBJ Nano QuadCF
Stock Return Pumps
Koralia 1
25 pounds LR
2 B&W Ocellaris
1 Peppermint Shrimp
2 Zoanthids
1 Hammer

The picture on the left is from before the addition of the hammer - and the right is after the hammer.

If you are keeping up with water changes and testing, you should pretty much not need to add anything. Did you say your are using natural sea water?

For your livestock the marine snow won't do too much(except feed algae). The trace elements might be used if you have to go a little while between water changes. I've owned both supplements at one time, but would never purchase them again.

The hammer might take some brine or uncooked table shrimp if you want to feed it. It does not take much, though and not necessary.

Thanks Kgoode - I rotate feeding the tank with supplemented brine shrimp and mysis every other day or so currently - and I am using natural sea water, which should have the elements already in it. So, if I keep to a good water change schedule I think that I will be fine.

Updated FTS

Well, it's been awhile since I posted to my own thread, so I thought I should go ahead and do just that. The tank has undergone some changes over time, here are the top 10 high and lowlights:

1. Removed the stock skimmer - just too much of a pain to remove the cup every time I wanted to lift the lid. IMO - don't buy the stock skimmer, get a HOB version like the Remora, or the Remora Nano.

2. I bought, used, and sold the Remora. I liked how it worked and the corals seemed to really brighten and expand when I had it on there. The reason that I sold it was due to two factors - the first being that it didn't fit properly, not the fault of the Remora or the JBJ tank - simply that I have my aquarium backed-up to a 1/2-height wall and the Remora was simply 1/2" too tall to fit properly on the tank. I could deal with that, but the real problem was that once I added it, the temperature elevated by almost 3 degrees - just too hot to keep on there. Having said that - I believe that the temperature could be more easily controlled by swapping out the MJ1200 that was on there for something different. Oh well - since it didn't fit and the temps got a little high I sold it and bought the Nano version of the Remora. I haven't installed the Remora Nano yet because I bought the Aquafuge 2 PS while waiting for the Nano (the price was just too good to pass up) - now I have two skimmers and the larger fuge. I think that the larger fuge will be better but I haven't recieved it yet so I can't say.

3. Feeding too frequently or too much leads to nasty blooms of cyano bacteria which is a very difficult thing to get rid of.

4. Aptasia medicine is hit or miss. I would like to try some berghia nudibranches to see if they will help me.

5. Corals will die no matter what you do. Recently, I lost my Open-Brain to the strain of the fluctuating temperatures (thank you Remora)

6. You can't have what you want in the tank if you have children. I had a beautiful set of B&W Ocellaris that I really liked, but my 2 year old daughter REALLY wanted to have Nemo and Marlin - so out went the B&W and in came a series of sick/dying/dead False Perculas. We now have 2 healthy ones.

7. The jury is still out on Turbo Snails - they are cool to look at but are they really helping or just knocking over my corals? Who knows.

8. Starfish are really fun to have in your tank and they add a lot of personality.

9. Corals are fickle.

10. You can spend a fortune on this hobby if you want to. My next purchase is likely to be a lighting upgrade (go figure) with the LED/T5 Hybrid from NanoCustoms (if the bulbs are ever available).

Tank looks great! Nice job and nice write up.

I see that you are running two skimmers. Just curious, have you tried running with no skimmer? I know that goes against the conventional wisdom of always adding more gear to address issues, but on a tank this size you may be able to do pretty well without one. Makes things pretty simple and you get rid of some heat as well issues. Who know's maybe sell some gear and go all LED instead

Again nice setup and thanks for sharing!

Thanks Willp2.

I'm not running any skimmers at the moment. I sold the Remora and just bought the Nano - but since I also just bought the Aquafuge 2 PS I'm waiting to take a look at it before deciding which to use. I plan to use the Fuge since it has the protein skimmer built in and I will probably sell the Remora Nano after I see how the AF works out.

I ran the stock skimmer for a few months but it is a PITA to take off the collection cup every time you want to open the hood so I just took it out and ran the tank without a skimmer for about 6 months. Everything seemed fine, no real problems or anything. I just got bored and ordered the Remora to see if there would be any tangible differences. There were - the temps raised almost 3 degrees, but the corals plumped up noticeably and they all seemed happy. I only got rid of it due to the temperature and space issues that I had with it.

I would like to go all LED for the heat issues, electricity isn't much of an issue but the $600 price tag to get the right system from NanoCustoms/Tuners is just too much to spend on the hobby. I'd rather use the money for something else. I spoke to NC specifically about the heat signature of the new LED/T5 Hybrid and they told me that it runs at the same temps as the QuadCF that I am already using - so for no heat output and <$250 I am leaning on going that route.

Also - in another thread, I asked about using Mud or Live Sand in the Aquafuge and people have been nice enough to respond both ways - and someone even suggested a bare-bottom for detritus removal. I am all for keeping it clean, but I don't want to over-sacrifice the look of the Aquafuge as it will be the first thing I/people see of the tank based on its placement. Any additional thoughts here would be great.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated as well.

Ah, misread your post. For some reason I read that to mean you are running 2 skimmers at the same time

On the LED thing, if you're into a bit of DIY, you could build a nice all LED retro for well under $300. It won't be snap together like the kits that NC sells, but it won't be bad either and it will be every bit as good IMO.

I have no problems with DIY other than time. I've built plenty of things and do all of my own home/car/boat electrical. It's just the time involved to build the LED retro. Did you do it for your tank? Do you have step-by-step instructions. I'd be interested to see just what would be involved in retrofitting something into my hood. And the price is right

I did it the right way and learned by doing retro's for a couple of friends first. Now I'm doing mine over the next couple of weeks. I'm building just about everything and using parts I have around, so the whole thing will cost me less than $150 and will be very bright and controllable

The most time consuming thing of all this is just working out what the plan is. Once you figure that out and get all the parts, the build is really an evening or two.

I'll start a thread documenting the build once I start putting it together. You can see some of the projects people have done here:

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=200335

That sounds great. I look forward to seeing the build thread.