Can anyone tell me if there is anything wrong with this very simple sump plumbing design? I have next to no experience plumbing, but I want this to work out right and would love to make sure I'm not forgetting anything important here. Thanks in advance for putting up with my limited MS Pain skills.



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I would drill

If my drilling would be similar in skill to my MS Painting, I disagree. In all seriousness though, I have made the decision to not drill this tank for a few reasons. That being said, would this design hold up to a power outage or other snafu?

as long as you dont run the water level in the sump at the rim.

A good test for water level would be to unplug the pump after i get the system running, correct?

By "other snafu", would you include a failure of the siphon tubes in the HOB overflow? Won't hold up to that, and it's a pretty common problem.

I used to have a HOB overflow. One flood and a near fire later (saltwater + powerstrip), and I now know better.


Best setup is a drilled setup with a herbie style overflow. It's the only overflow that has full redundancy on the drains, so that if your primary drain is clogged, you still don't have a flood. The only thing that can cause a flood is a catastrophic failure of a tank or pipe, which is an issue either way.

shark police going to be here any minute now. you cant put a shark in a nano.

hi neanderthalman, what is an herbie style overflow?

I've come to learn that drilling is the best option (either with the method described above, or with a dual bulkhead durso drain with separate plumbing) for preventing trouble.

HOWEVER....

I've been considering doing a siphon overflow with my 20L, and after talking to some folks who use the siphon overflow, I've come to conclude that this is the way to go for a siphon overflow. It apparently doesn't lose siphon because of how the water level is maintained within the overflow, even during a power outage. So long as you properly adjust it (a concern with any kind of sump setup), it won't lose the water level. My brain is shot, but I believe there is a discussion about that overflow in my 20L thread, and I believe it was Needreefunds that lead me to that particular overflow due to his success with it.

Conclusion: drilling is best (absent your "few reasons"), but siphon is possible. Oh, and a good LFS will drill your tank for you for a reasonable amount.



At least it's not the tang police!

This is kinda becoming one of those things that between NR.com and my local reef club forum, a lot of smart people are telling me to shut up and drill... If I can get someone local that will be helpful, I suppose I will just go ahead and do that. Fail-safe is really my main goal here, and while it looks like an overflow is a 99% solution, drilling will be better using some of the systems you guys mentioned. Thanks.

And sorry, the shark stays.

Are you going to add baffles?

If I drill the glass, I'm likely going to get someone with a whole lot more experience than I have to help from the local reef club. I will definitely post pics of the set-up if that is the route I am going though.

Yeah, if you get help drilling is not so bad.

But you should consider adding baffles to the sump to help with microbubbles.

'01???

Hey Tigah, yeah, I will likely get some thin, cheap acrylic to add baffles to the 5 or 5.5 gal sump.

Lived in 5 states in 7 years (not counting Iraq ) so I'm finally able to set-up my baby again.

Nice. So you decided to go for 5g instead of the 10g in the design? I would try to fit as large of a sump possible to fit equipment (i.e. heaters are long) and baffles and such. Not a lot of room to work with with 5g.

How big is the display tank going to be? If the display is tiny as well, then maybe not a big deal.

Well, I'm kinda torn right now. If I go with the 10gallon, I would have to drain the tank, move it, knock out the wall on the stand and move the tank in, then put it all back together. I'm not so sure that I could take the stand apart and keep its integrity, so I might be forced to go with the 5.5g for now. There is a local guy (Colorado Springs) that does some custom sump work I might try to check out as well.

Tank size is 28 gallons. If the heater doesn't fit, its a 125w Jager, then I would be ok going with maybe two shorter 50watters.

5 Gallon sump? That is useless. At least do a 10.I would personally do a 20 gallon. Soon as you start adding pumps,skimmers,sock you run out of room really quick.

Did I miss this somewhere how big is the display?

Youn won't get a skimmer,heater and filter media to fit into a 5 gallon sump.Goggle sump sizes then look at skimmer foot prints and heater sizes.Go look at Tigahboys sump it is jammed pack and he rearranged his plumbing to make things fit and it is still full.

Display is 28g bowfront tank. And really, if it fits my skimmer (think an octopus HOB but on the sump) and the heater, then I'm not too worried about size. So not really useless if my goal is to just clean up the look of the main tank. My constraint here is space, I would love to put another identical 28g tank below this if I had the space in the stand. But I don't.



A HOB Skimmer and two Jager 50 watt heaters at 9 inches deep each would fit ok I believe?

www.glass-holes.com sells essentially idiot-proof overflow kits.

+1 to tigah (you should add some baffles to your sump).

What do you plan on using for a return pump?

Yes it will fit with a HOB skimmer. But if you got a sump get a in sump skimmer. Don't let taking a stand apart stop you from doing a bigger sump. Don't be scared rip it apart.

Hehe, Im certain I could take it apart just fine... Just not so sure about putting it back together. Its the laminated type wood and I'm hesitant to start peeling that off to see if I'm working with nails or screws. Might be my best bet though, we will see.

since ntm hasn't answered yet.

Basically, in a nutshell, a herbie overflow is a modified durso with 2 drains with no holes drilled in a T or cap. Just run the pipes straight to the sump.
drain #1 is lower than drain #2 and is the main drain.
put a valve on drain #1 to restrict the flow.
outlet of drain #1 is below sump operating waterline.
the water level inside the overflow will be somewhere between the drains.
When its dialed in (and no more tweaking) there is no air introduced into the drain, no vortex either. So you are left with a completely silent drain. the upper drain #2 is a emergency drain. If a snail, algae or whatever clogs drain #1 somewhat, the water will then go out drain #2 and make a lot of noise so you know something is wrong.

Some come up from the bottom like a more traditional RR tank. Even seen some drilled in back, side to side with elbows on the inside pointing up/down. The further apart the easier it is to dial in.
I went top/bottom drilled in the back (see my sig). I used gate valves instead of ball and it makes dialing in soooooo easy.

Whacked - phenominal info. I will probably end up drilling what you described, depending on who I get to help me.

Diagram for the herbie (along with 2 other popular overflow methods) is at the top of this thread: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...t=0&start=0

I don't have a herbie, but still have redundancy and a 100% failsafe overflow

I was scared to drill my tank but after a few beers, I did it. Once you get the first one done, it isnt bad. Now I probably wouldnt want to drill a 10g or smaller. The thin glass they use will be easier to shatter. 20g+ shouldnt be a issue.
Also, make sure the glass isnt tempered.

Yeah, I had a twin durso on my 10g. It *should* be 100% redundant. Trust me, it's not.

It is if you execute it the right way, like a BeanAnimal. On the drain you face one 90˚ street elbow down, and one up for emergency. You can't use intake strainers.

How then do you keep fish from getting into the sump?

Plug the durso holes and you have a herbie style.

Oh, and you should put strainers on the end of the elbows, you're asking for trouble.

If you look at picture 1, you'll see a much better option to strainers. It's eggcrate in the overflow box. I had my old strainers cake up with coralline and crap and fail. I'll never use strainers again.

dude - it's called maintenance. You're supposed to clean stuff in your tank. Foreign concept?

If that's too difficult, remember, it's a $2 part. Keep a spare on hand in a jar of vinegar. When your old one gets caked, swap 'em out. I spend more money on filter floss than I would if I replaced the strainers outright every month. It's not like it's a $500 protein skimmer that you're swapping out. $2 (or $4), and virtually zero effort.

Not to mention - but the herbie style doesn't have an ugly pair of standpipes sticking up behind the tank.


The eggcrate was an idea I considered, and rejected. I had figured that the eggcrate would prevent water from adhering to the wall of the overflow on the way down, increasing the turbulence, splashing, and therefore noise. How is yours working out? (genuinely curious)

Yes, it's a foreign concept to me. You can clearly see from this picture that I perform no maintenance.
Lets see yours.


The only noise my tank makes is a hum from the fans and return pump. I have no waterfall noise, no splashing, no skimmer noise at all.

The way mine is set up there is absolutely zero chance of flood, and unless you can give me a scenario where it could happen with this set up, I refuse the believe it can.

Ugly stand pipes? They're invisible. You can't even see them from the front of the tank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

Another foreign concept?

why be a jackass? he proved you wrong.

Where? Are you sure you read the same thread?

Putting elbows on the twin durso, one facing up, one facing down, turns a durso into a herbie. That's how it was discovered.

If you're referring to his last post - he posted a picture of his (rather nice) tank. Great - was he trying to refute the cheap shot I took? It wasn't needing nor deserving refutation - nor did showing that he knows how to take care of a tank in any way show that cleaning strainers take significant effort or cost. He didn't address any of the points I made besides focusing on an irrelevant bit of lighthearted mockery. Welcome to the internet, it comes with an certain level of snark. Avoid the lounge if this is too much for you....you'll need a shower and therapy afterwards.

Second point - standpipes. The picture he posted is conveniently cropped. Here's the earlier picture where you can clearly see the durso standpipes sticking up over the back of the tank.



Now, lets try some logic. If you claimed that a twin durso is 100% redundant, as he implied, it only takes one example to refute your claim. That's exactly what I did, having had one that did not turn out as great. Is that being a jackass? Nope. It's sharing of my experiences to help out the new members of the forum and hobby, like yourself. You're....welcome.



In short:



Lighten up, Francis.

you guys care too much

everytime i visit this forum... sigh..
everyone think their way is the only way..

sorry op

Christ... seriously!
The standpipes behind the tank are that ugly?

The setup

If they're invisible, and you can't even see them from the front of the tank, then....why are they visible from the front of the tank?

I'd certainly say that they're relatively unobtrusive and mostly obscured by the light, but that's not what you've claimed.

See why I'm hasslin' ya?

BTW, your livestock looks quite nice - good mix of colors. I like it.

Unless you're 36" tall or shorter, you'd never be under the god damned light fixture as in the pic you referenced

INVISIBLE from 40" off the ground and higher.



Is it because your a complete douche?




Then why did you say this?

I need to learn to subscribe to my own thread . Thanks for the great design Mr Thingdoer, I would love to give that baby a shot.

pics are worth you know

overflow and sump of ten by ten. would deffinetly do atleast a 10 for the sump.
also in denver.