I've been doing some research, and it seems that the chalk bass shouldn't give a YWG trouble, unless there are insufficient hiding places. While I've got a few in this tank, there's only one or two that a YWG would find sufficient, so I can see trouble.

How does a pair of chalk bass and a bi-color blenny sound? I've heard reports, however, of bi-colors picking at LPS... is this true? Or how about a Starry Blenny (assuming I can find one)?

inorite? So many options, so many rumors/myths..... whattodo whattdo.....

I'm actually thinking about ordering from liveaquaria, if my LFS can't get the fish I want, or if they can only do so at a greater expense than getting them shipped in. Have any of you ordered from them before?

Yup. They used this cool sort of bubble bag that seems to serve as both cushion and insulation.

One fish I bought died a week later and they gave me a credit on my acct. Drs. F&S- Live Aquaria -etc, has awesome customer service in my book.

As for the opinions and such, I hear ya. I always gather them, try to process and see how they apply to my system and hopefully come to an intelligent decision.

Excellent! The LFS (and NR sponsor) have amazing corals and great prices, but they don't stock a whole lot in the way of fish. It's good to know that if I can't support the LFS, that there's a back-up plan for me to purchase online. I'll probably end up trying to buy all three fish at once to save on shipping costs... so what that means is that I'm probably going to end up waiting even longer to buy them, so that my tank can be even more established before doing so. Then again, I wouldn't think that 2 chalk bass and a blenny, perhaps, would add much in the way of bioload to a 29g+sump/skimmer system. Or would it? It's been so long since I've had SW fish!



That's one of the things I love about the law... there are a lot of opinions, but at the end of the day, when the Supreme Court says something, you just go with it. With everything else.... it's essentially like flipping a coin. That's what it seems like I have to do with my stocking list!

Oh well, 'tis life!

Tank Update:

The construction of the plumbing is completed! I'm going to let the cement dry/cure for 24 hours before flushing with water. Then, provided that I can pick up the 2x6 and clamps tomorrow, the PVC will be hooked up to the tank and things will really get rolling.

Personally I wouldn't want to add three fish to such a young tank, but that's just me.

Perhaps the LFS can order one of them in for you to get you started and help build the bio filter?

That's what I'm hoping too. I'm hoping to get the Blenny first, and then order a pair of chalk bass later. That way, it's a better progression of bio-load. I have a feeling that they can order it, the question will be, however, at what cost.

If I can't get the fish I want through the LFS, I'm contemplating ordering either the pair of chalk bass or the blenny plus a couple of less expensive corals (the shipping cost will only cover california shipments, so the cool diver's den stuff is out). That would translate to only an additional cost of $5 to $10 per fish/coral, which isn't bad.

The necessary plumbing is done and I've got wood! Lumber, of course. I stopped to get a 1X6 (or X8, I think the sign was wrong), and now I just need to cut it and mount the brackets. I also finally remember to pick up a check valve, but I'll add that tomorrow. I need to cement a few pieces to make it work, but this piece will just screw into the existing one. It's going onto the return line, but I'm hoping that it shouldn't cause any trouble if I wait until tomorrow to add the check valve.

I'm waiting on a batch of SW to mix up to put in the sump, and then I'll be using the old water in the sump to flush the lines of the plumbing. I'll have photos up soon!

IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Here are the final construction photos of the plumbing. I have a few tweaks yet (details below) but overall, it's done.



I want to an extra piece of pipe to transfer the left drain over to the right side of the sump, so that the two can discharge into the same filter sock.



The board is to support the drains, through the use of the pipe clamps previously mentioned.

Looks good. The boards are not like I pictured. I had it horisontal not vertical. But I do like how it boxes in the plumbing. I'd have to run it all the way to the top of the tank/hood. Then all that plumbin would be hid.

I just figured that I could get the most support out of it by fixing it to the stand (lateral support) and being flush on the floor for the vertical support. I didn't take it to the top of the tank because I'm planning on finishing the shell of the stand, and that will include finished wood running all the way up to the top, covering the board and plumbing. My current debate is between buying oak plywood or more of the whiteboards (the wood I used for the plumbing) and gluing it together. Tough choice.... I think the cost would end up roughly the same. A third option is regular finish plywood, and frame it with the whiteboard.



inorite?

Either way would be WAY better than it just hangin there.

I'm glad you said something, because I really hadn't thought about it up front. After you mentioned it, I touched the pipes and realized how wicked it could get once water was running through it! Thanks for the heads up.

Any time my friend. All it takes is one good wiggle and woosh all your time and $$$ is floppin in the floor.

That's always been my concern when it comes to plumbing, and the main reason I've never had a drilled tank before now! Once I get some extra time, I'm probably going to over-engineer the plumbing support, to be sure that it's supported from as many sides and angles as possible. I enjoy that kind of stuff, plus it helps me sleep better at night! I have nightmares about my tanks sometimes, typically when I'm out of town for a weekend or longer.

Remind me to tell you me horror story.

Do tell!

First baby..Bringing her home for the 1st time....30 steps into the house squish squish....My auto top off that is plumbed into the house via rodi had failed. The float valve had leaked causing it to sink and obviously caused the ATO to run 4eva. Long story short. I vacumed up 75+ gallons of water out of the carpet. Had to replace baseboards, repaint..... Oh the salt level was .93. Amazingly I didnt loose anything.


THEN...coralife replace the unit and paied for all the damages. THEN THE DAMN THING FAILED AGAIN. I had a hydro alarm, but we were not home. Same thing again...vacume, paint, base boards..... Professional carpet cleaning...

My cat once jumped onto the canistor filter and unhooked the return line. Needless to say the return line was on a verticle spraybar....it siphoned 20 gallons out and fried the fw plants...

Oh and then there was that time my front pane of glass blew out two days b4 Christmas.

Wow, that not a good way of coming home! You must have some kind of super duty RODI though, for 75 gallons?



Now that's a warranty! I wouldn't have thought that they would be willing to pay up.





I'm guessing you're now a baseboard replacement expert?





That's precisely why I don't want to get my pump running without the check valve in place. At worse, about 6 to 8 gallons can escape.

Your glass blew out? Catastrophic failure style?

Wow, that not a good way of coming home! You must have some kind of super duty RODI though, for 75 gallons?

150 gpd


Now that's a warranty! I wouldn't have thought that they would be willing to pay up.

Your telling me. I may have helped that I purchase hundreds of those floats for ponds.

I'm guessing you're now a baseboard replacement expert?

Sadly its not that hard if you have the miter saw and a nailer.

That's precisely why I don't want to get my pump running without the check valve in place. At worse, about 6 to 8 gallons can escape.

I shoulda had a siphon break. Live and learn

Your glass blew out? Catastrophic failure style?
Yep, KABLEWIE! Fishies a flopin. wife [/quote]

Haha yeah, being a repeat customer helps. With my LFS, I'm practically on a first name basis!

Baseboard work isn't that hard .... I'd know, because I've had to trim my entire house! Well, it's still a work in progress at least. It just amazes me though, that so many people have trouble with it!

I fired up my sump today, and I already saw the danger of the siphon. Apparently 1/2 full isn't enough water for the pump. When I shut it off, the siphon began! Luckily, I don't have a vertical spray bar, and the twin nozzles were just slightly below the return line. Still, it was enough to make me shut down the sump and wait until I can get the check valve installed! Looks like another 24 hour wait is in the works...

That's insane that you had a KABLEWIE! I had thought that most glass aquariums shouldn't suffer from that. Did something come into contact with the glass in a rather violent manner or was this more of a spontaneous KABLEWIE situation?

Yanno, MJ, I always check your thread, but I don't think I can continue to do so. I'm askeered





Cowkid, I hope you treasure your wife--she's clearly a saint.


I've only had a couple of very small (in the scheme of things) mishaps with the tank, and it still leaves me constantly checking and rechecking. In fact, I don't have an ATO and don't want one for fear of malfunctioning.

And by the way, how come none of you baseboard wizards live near me? You wouldn't believe the mess that passes for baseboards in my apt.

Just wait until Halloween gets here!



I'm the same way with the ATO right now. If I do set one up, it will just be a gallon or two in order to limit the damage! Baseboard work isn't too bad, if you've got a power miter saw. The trick is to carefully measure!

The sump, in action!



The tank is a bit cloudy, because the current spray bar is hitting the sand a bit hard and kicking up dust.



The cement on the check valve is still drying, so the tank is just temporarily running while I can babysit it. I've also determined that on my agenda for the weekend is to get the shell finished for the stand, because the return lines are LOUD! I don't have a filter sock yet for either, so that should help when they get here.

Quick question about the filter socks: should they be located more on the return line itself, or should the water just fall into it? The objective is mechanical filtration (although I've also got filter floss in the sump) and sound dampening.

AP123 I do understand what a great wife I have. She puts up with alot. Trust me! Oh and some of the baseboard wizards do live around you. But its probably one of those cases that we know how and we know we dont want others to know we know how

Hey MJ!! Your returns concern me bud. Your gonna have one heck of a salt spray issue if you cannto calm the splashing into the sump down. Filter socks are usually hung below the drains and the water flows into them "maybe the socks could be 1/2 the way into the water" For now you can ziptie a knee hi or the foot end of some pantyhose to the drains into the sump. They work great for a filter sock, or a media bag.
Is there any way that you can turn the 90's in the tank down or just try the strainers w/o the 90's. If you can get those drains down under the water then your gonna eliminate ALOT of that noise. Remember less air in the lines means less noise.

It started to concern me too, because it was like Niagara Falls in my living room! I ended up cutting some PVC to put the discharge below water. It cut down on a lot of noise and will cut down on the salt creep too, I hope. I think I've got an idea of how to use the filter socks, with how you've described it.

I think I will turn the 90s down a bit. I've got a small hole drilled in the top of each durso, so I don't get much noise at the strainer. The majority of the noise (what remains anyways) is from the air that is in the discharge. I'm afraid that if I use the strainer only on the bulkheads, I will have a very low water level in the DT. I think that if I can get more of the drain under water, that should take care of the remaining noise. As is, I think that with a proper shell built around the stand, the present noise won't be very audible anyways. However, no noise is better than barely any noise!

IT'S WET!

I'm glad that it's progressed this far! My check valve will finally be ready to be added to the system tomorrow and my filter sock should be here soon. That means that the tank will be wet on a permanent basis.

Let's see KY beat that!

lol!

Of course, from what I hear, KY Yours and Mine is a whole different ball game. I think that I will need to experiment to find out. I'm sure I can find some lady willing to conduct this experiment. In the name of science, of course.



In tank news, the tank is still cycling. Yay! ....

In other news.... I'll soon be filing my appeal to the Ohio Supreme Court! If all goes according to plan, it will be filed a week from tomorrow. I just have to keep my fingers crossed that the Court will decide to hear the appeal.

From personal exp. The KY Yours and Mine........

Whatcha appealin? Whod ya choot?

So the commercials are not accurate? WTH?




Me? No one (yet).

I'm actually appealing a criminal case, on a 4th amendment (search and seizure) issue. If I can find the news story from the intermediate court of appeals, I'll post a link!

Well if you like a mentholated piece then some weak heat then go for it. But my wife and I both felt it was a huge waste of money. Altoids are a far better playmate.

Well then, in that case, I'll just stick with my motto. Save a horse, ride a cowboy.

He he. Just remember real Cowgirls Dont Cry!

True story. Tonight should be an fun night.... it's my usual country dancing night, and I met an interesting girl there a while ago. Last week, she asked if she'd see me there tonight, so

Just rember fresh breath is fun breath.

Wait.... I thought that it was beer breath was fun breath? Just not morning beer breath.

Its what you do with the minty fresh breath that makes it fun.

True. I guess that I just use my ability smell beer breath to serve as an indicator that fun breath is necessary. Plus, any kind of minty breath freshener makes beer mouth taste awful. I like to flush with wet water first.

Speaking of wet water, I just added the check valve to my return, and reworked the discharge into the sump. The one discharging above the return pump was causing all kinds of microbubbles to wind up in the display. I still need to make a few more tweaks to the modification to reduce salt creep, but it's a move in the right direction.

Also, I tested NH₃ and NO₂ today, and both are going down. However, I find it somewhat strange that the ammonia is still not zero, despite the nitrites having already spiked. I used mostly dry rock, but I added some freeze-dried brine shrimp early on to kick start the cycle. I'm thinking about adding more brine today to help things along. If the cycle is further along, the food will be broken down and converted. If not, it should help the cycle move forward. At least that's what I'm thinking would help.

Hm.... despite the change, I'm still getting quite a bit in the way of microbubbles in the DT. Will the filter sock help correct this, or do I need to do something else? (other than have a beer )

I wouldnt add any more food to the tank. As hard as it is just let time run its course.

Micro bubbles. The filter sock will help cut down on those some. Do you need an acrylic box to house the Rpump so that it slows down the bubble infusion? Just a thought not a sales plug. Are you drains the same height in the back of the tank? I am gonna have to think about this one.

Fun breath. I guess when to all comes to a head, as long as your still breathing its been real fun.

+1 Your cycle will be finished before you know it.

How was the dance? More importantly, was she intrigued by the idea of a reef tank?

Adding a lit bit of food midway is something I've actually always done to see how the cycle is progressing. I've had these test kids for a year and a half or so, and I have no idea how old they were when I bought them on ebay, so I like to add a bit of food once the cycle is going well to see if the ammonia spikes. Even though the test kit is registering traces of ammonia, if the test is bad and no ammonia should be showing, there shouldn't be a spike in ammonia. I've always been nervous about my test kits for the cycle, so I guess this is my way of confirmation.



I might have to look into that if the filter sock doesn't help. It's slowly getting better, so I wonder if it will just take some time. I'm guessing the Rpump needs a bit of a break in too, so that could be a part of the problem as well. The drains are both roughly the same height in the back of the tank. If you think of anything, let me know!



Exactly! Any time I'm still breathing is a good time.



I know! I still can't wait though. It's in my living room, so I'm often looking at this empty tank. There aren't even any pods visible yet to watch.

Well, it was many, many dances. It was a rather fun time. I don't actually recall mentioning the tank last night, but generally I get a lot of people who first give a skeptical look at first, and then when I show them a picture of my 20L, it turns to an intrigued look.

I just ran another test on my water. After about three weeks of cycling, here goes:

Ammonia: .25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20
pH: 8.8

It seems strange that the nitrite spike has passed, nitrates are elevated, but yet ammonia is still registering.

Even with the discharge being below water, I'm getting a lot of bubbles into the sump. I'm not sure if this is too much for a filter sock to correct, so I thought I'd post some photos. I'm starting to wonder if I need to drill a bigger hole in the top of the durso.

Here are the photos:

Okay first off you monkey looks like hugh hefner. That amt of bubbles would not be solved by a filter sock. All that is gonna do is make fewer but much bigger bubbles. This could keep all crud in the FS suspended and then could cause problems.

I have racked my poor little head over your bubble problem. So now you gotta ans some questions.

1. Why do you have two drains draining into each side of the fuge?
2. Can you get away with one drain?
3. If so are you willing to do a bit more work to the tank? "this would involve a bit of acrylic work, but I believe I could help you make this setup almost completly silent."