Quick fact finding trip to wikipedia reveals:

Rare-earth magnets are strong permanent magnets made from alloys of rare earth elements. Developed in the 1970s and 80s, rare-earth magnets are the strongest type of permanent magnets made, substantially stronger than ferrite or alnico magnets. The magnetic field typically produced by rare-earth magnets can be in excess of 1.4 tesla, whereas ferrite or ceramic magnets typically exhibit fields of 0.5 to 1 tesla. There are two types: neodymium magnets and samarium-cobalt magnets. Rare earth magnets are extremely brittle and also vulnerable to corrosion, so they are usually plated or coated to protect them from breaking and chipping.

The term "rare earth" is misleading; these metals are not particularly rare or precious, and as of 2007 rare earth magnets give the best cost/field ratios of any permanent magnet.[citation needed] Interest in rare earth compounds as permanent magnets began in 1966, when K. J. Strnat and G. Hoffer of the US Air Force Materials Laboratory discovered that YCo5 had by far the largest magnetic anisotropy constant of any material then known.[1]

Also under Neodymium (the most common and affordable typr of Rare Earth Magnet):

Neodymium metal dust is a combustion and explosion hazard.

Neodymium compounds, like all rare earth metals, are of low to moderate toxicity; however its toxicity has not been thoroughly investigated. Neodymium dust and salts are very irritating to the eyes and mucous membranes, and moderately irritating to skin. Breathing the dust can cause lung embolisms, and accumulated exposure damages the liver. Neodymium also acts as an anticoagulant, especially when given intravenously.[4]

Neodymium magnets have been tested for medical uses such as magnetic braces and bone repair, but biocompatibility issues have prevented widespread application.

There are also other components in the composition of these magnets that I will research later.

Some have pointed out that rust from iron is not harmful. I understand the rational behind that but iron is only one constituent in the fabrication of rare-earth magnets. It is the other components and there potential toxicity long term that concern me.

-Prof

yeah, thats what i meant. you cannot even get to the magnet in the new ones...

Right. Neodymium magnets are made of a neodymium iron boron composition. The neodymium itself may create issues with mucous membranes as stated in the wiki entry above. I know it limits it to powder and salts, but if it corrodes, it could have the same effect. Boron seems to be relatively safe. The iron could still be a big contributor. We don't know how pure the iron is, so impurities could lead to other issues.

Ill check mine when i get home. I have a older nano that i bought 2 years ago.

Just talked to a nice gentleman at Hydor, I send him my pics and pointed him to this thread.

-Jason

So is the consesus here that this only affects Hydor Nano's? Or are the K 1 - 4's afffected as well? I don't own a nano but I do own some 2's and 3's.





Jason -

Can you PM me that number? I need to call them and couldn't find the number.

What did he say?

He thought that it was very odd that the magnets looked the way they do, and that he'd never heard of this happening. He mentioned that the magnets haven't been changed since they introduced the Koralias, and that they are not rare-earth magnets, just industrial strength magnets.

He seemed to think that even if they were rusting, it wouldn't affect the water quality, but I'm not sure ... in an 8G BioCube (which has probably ~5G of water), a small concentration of anything seems potentially harmful.

Eek! I checked my nano on lunch break and sure enough, rusty magnet! This is not good!

I hope this is the simple fix for your problems there Wettabix.

Can someone - ANYONE - PM me the numbner for Hydor - I'm told it's on their site but I can't get to it from work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

####! i have 3 koralia nanos!
what did the rep at hydor say? this is a horrible situation!

FWIW, the rep said that even if it is rust ... that rust shouldn't affect the system.

I demand they buy us all brand new MP10s for our (potential) troubles!! Anyone with me??

So is the consensus that the nanos are at fault? I have some K1's guess it's time to check them...


Edit: +1 to the above, if this is proven to be bad, how is Hydor going to fix it???

I don't think anyone is saying that anything is at fault. This is just an observation that we're all seeing with our Koralia Nano magnets. Whether or not it affects our systems in a negative way is unknown ...

Thanks for the number...


I just spoke to someone over there about another issue I was having and I have to say that the customer service is pretty awesome.

O ok. Well that is good and bad. Hopefully it has no effect on our systems.

I just opened up my K1 and I can't seem to get the magnet out. I got the rubber part off but now the magnet is really in there, is mine a sealed on or what?

WTF - don't take the magnet out with force ... read the title of the thread brother, we're talking about the Nanos ...

I know, I was just checking


It wasn't gonna try haha, I was just saying it was stuck in there, I have bad luck sometimes and just wanted to be safe.

im with it!! i want my mp10 shipped overnight!!
or AT LEAST replace my nanos with koralia 1s the flow rate is not that diff, esp with a little algae stuck to the pump

in the last few months i bought THREE k-nanos!! thats like $80 i spent on hydor crap... and to find out they can cause detriment to my LS is killing me!

Thank you for bringing this to my attention Bonsai. I sent this concern to the technical department.

In the mean time, let me get some information out there.

The magnets are all sealed. The magnets themselves are never in direct contact with the salt water. This is the first time I have ever heard or seen any issues with corrosion of the magnets. There are tens of thousand of nano being used by hobbyists with absolutely no issues.

If you have a concern with your magnets, feel free to contact Hydor Customer Service. The phone number is on the website, and no you dont have to call Italy. We are located in California.

Very interesting. I had two 10 gallon frag tanks that did great for 6 months then just stalled. I finally broke them down a few weeks ago cause they were taking too much time and not producing for me. I could never figure out what was wrong with them. The tank design, lighting, pumps, etc were all used on a couple of tanks at my office with great success. I finally broke the tanks down and moved all the livestock to other tanks. Within a few weeks everything from those frag tanks came back to life. The ONLY difference in the tanks is I'm not running the nano's now. I haven't looked at my nano's yet but you can be sure I will tonight. I'll post pics if I find anything. I've heard all the arguments on rust in tanks, pure ferric oxide is one thing, random rusting stuff seems very different to me. I'm no scientist but it would make sense that rust itself might not be bad (ie Phosphate removal) but the process of rusting could release contaminants within different types of metals. No matter how you break it down, a rusting ship in the middle of a reef can't be good for it.

Steve

I love these kids of posts



They sink ships on purpose to make reefs for corals and fish. Divers pay top dollar to see them

wtf! "even if its rust"?! what the heck else COULD it be! ahahaha
and who are they to tell us what affect it may or may not have on our systems! we have hundreds maybe even thousands of dollars of LS in them! and did they do a study to see if the rusty magnets really have NO effect whatsoever? i think not...


well i didnt spend the money to buy some faulty equipment, i spent it on stuff i thought was quality andwould help my reef THRIVE, not potentially create a toxic situation!

Rust in the ocean is a vastly different deal than rust in our small little glass boxes. While the concentration may be the sameat any given time, the concentration in the ocean is constantly moving and diluting. Not so much in our tanks. While Hydorman seems to think that there is no direct contact between water and magnet, something has to be causing the rust. anyone actually check to see if the magent is actually wet once they take it apart?

Again, it may be more than rust that is creating the problems. There have been numerous threads here about a random screw or impeeler shaft rusting causing issues in the tank, and going back to normal once the issue is corrected. Screws are an alloy, just like the magnets and have other components other than iron that can leach in to the water. Even stainless steel is not safe.

Fortunately, once the magnets are coated and reinstalled, the problem should correct itself over time, if this indeed is the problem.

you have no idea yet if that is the cause of a problem or not. Also it doesn't sound like you an issue that you can directly pinpoint to a magnet. You should wait for better information before you impulsively blame someone or something. I'm not taking a side either way, I just don't like these threads becoming a scapegoat for random problems. I think Prof has handled it well.



I was directly responding to what was quoted.

I'm with StevieT on this one. Everybody likes to get fired up about what they perceive to be a problem. Keep in mind that we add rust to our tanks on purpose, and gladly mind you, to remove phosphates from our water. Phosphate absorption media is Ferric Oxide, the most popular of which is GFO at the moment, also known as granular ferric oxide, also known as rust... I'm not saying that whatever elements they add to the magnets composition are not potentially harmful but I seriously doubt any harm will come of it.

personally i have not been experiencing any problems with my reef. i do however have 3 koralia nanos running in all 3 of my tanks, so i am concerned. my point is, why didnt hydor just make the pump with the magnets fully enclosed? then we wouldnt have to worry...
but ywah i dont even perceive any problems with my picos (corals seem happy and everythings good, thank god) but it does worry me...


im wiht you on this evil, i dont like having random metal objects in constant contact with my system's water -- it seems like the perfect opportunity for heavy metals to leach into the water column and cause problems in the long-term
cumulative toxicity is a very hard thing for even specialists to quantify... i dont want my corals to suffer down the line because the metals in that magnet have been slowly leaching...

i just called hydor in sacramento and spoke to the rep over there. he did not know much about the situation. he said he had spoke to bonsai earlier about the same issue.he said he was waiting to hear back from the tech's over there about what exactly the magnets were made out of and what exactly they were coated with.
he said that unless the coating comes off or corrodes away, the magnets are coated with a protective coating that resists corrosion.
he also said that if my magnets were bad, or if i wanted to replace them, he would send me new ones. they wanted the serial numbers of my powerheads to make sure it was not an issue with the entire batch of nano's that my pump came from...

I don't want unkown metals in my tank either, but we do need to quantify exactly what is causing the issues with certain tanks before we start pointing a loaded gun. For all we know, the issues are completely unrelated to the rusting magnet. There is the possibility that it is creating issues though.

What we need to do now is collect information. We need to know if the magnets are wet when they are removed. If they are, there is a greater chance of leaching than if the magnets are dry and it's just rusting from trapped humiditymoisture in the assembly. We also need to know what the magnet composition is. This will just help us make more educated assumptions about what is potentially happening, not find a scapegoat. We also should implement some of the proposed fixes on some of the tanks that are experiencing problems, like Weetie's tank. If there is notable improvements with no other changes in the tank, then it's safe to assume that the magnet was creating issues.

I agree with StevieT that Prof handled this very well. We all need to follow suit and take this step by step in an orderly fashion. Chaos and panicing gets us nowhere fast.

I agree.

I also have a Korelia Nano in my BC8, and have issues with corals not growing fast enough (or in some cases not at all), but there are dozens of other contributing factors to that than just the Nano - The first one could possibly be overly-high expectations for coral growth in my tank.

I will also check my nano when I get home though.

as i said before, i have had no adverse effects from my nanos as far as i can tell. my pumps are band new and might not have begun to corrode yet. i will check them later today let you guys know...
either way it might not be a bad idea to take hydor up on their offer for free replacement magnets.

I would suggest everyone not flood Hydor with requests for new magnets. It's a quick way for them to pull the offer. Let them figure out if the issue is legitimate. When they decide to take action, they will and will have a program in place to replace magnets. Anyway, if they give you new magnets now, they will just have the same defect.

I'll check mine tonight. If it's rusty I'll be sure to post/email/call with my serial number for Hydor's research.

That's just wrong on so many levels.

Let me reiterate that out of the TENS OF THOUSANDs of nano magnets out there, I have only seen pictures of 2 sets of rusty magnets and only a handful of people have even claimed they have had rusty magnets. Statistically speaking you have a better chance of getting in a car accident today and dieing than having an issue with your nano magnet.

All nano magnets are sealed in a non reactive, corrosion resistant epoxy which prevents saltwater from coming into contact with the magnets. The only way for saltwater to get to the magnet is if the epoxy coating is damaged.

If you have an issue with your Nano, its magnets or any other Hydor product feel free to contact us.

SCAPEGOAT indeed. Now everyone who has a Koralia in their tank is going to blame the magnet for their tank issues...awesome.

do you guys have any suggestions on a materal or coating that the diyer could use to ensure that his magnet does not rust due to chipped or faulty coating? could we just shoot it with spraypaint or some silicone to keep the water off if it? I just recently picked up my first nano (not my first hydor) and noticed the mounting system was different.

It will be funny when we find out (just a guess) that only a few do this and it has no adverse affects. Well time will tell...

I used scapegoat and now everyone is, I feel special...

or anything else thats going on in their life -- lost your job? getting a divorce? DAMN THAT KORALIA NANO!!!

You could use something like this. Dont know which is safe but have seen it used before. You can find in at HD.
http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip Just super glue fishing line to magnet and dip. I did this for magnets I use for frag racks. Hope this points you in right direction.

I was afraid this was going to happen. Before I go any further, I would like to point out that a couple of years ago the Hydor Koralia was the best thing since canned beer in the reefing world, particularly here on NR. It was considered (and should still be) a cost effective alternative to the Tunze and many also considered it to be more aesthetically pleasing as well. This company also brought you the Flo and the Theo heaters which many of us continue to use today. This potential issue is small in the grand scheme of things and under no circumstances did I intend for this to be a rant against Hydor or a thread to try to discourage someone from buying their product.

Also, Thanks to Bonsai for talking the point and contacting Hydor on behalf of the community. Stevie, Evil and the rest of the cooler heads out there thanks as well.

Again, this was posted for informational purposes. Along that vein my magnet was wet (with salt water) when it was removed. The S/N for my Nano is P19501 with a 729 off to the right. I cannot detect a protective coating on either the wet or dry side. Mr. Hydorman, I am providing this information to help you see if you have a potential issue with a particular batch/lot of Nano's. Anyone who has confirmed a rusted magnet should do the same if for no other reason than to help Hydor out with identifying the problem. I am not concerned with and do not seek recompense, replacement or compensation from Hydor. The course of action others chose to take is up to them.

I intend to fix mine and continue to use it. I plan to do this with full knowledge that any warranty I may have left will probably be voided. I will post my fix and procedures for any who wish to use it, at their own risk. Look for that this weekend.

Finally, while I freely admit that my evidence that my tanks issues was caused by the rusting magnet is anecdotal at best, I do take offense at those who claim no adverse effect is possible, including Hydorman's statement. Until it is known what the composition of the magnet is, we do not know what is leaching into our tanks. Most heavy metals only cause adverse effect cumulatively over long periods of time (lead, arsenic, etc). In a closed system this would only be worse in my opinion and is consistent with my situation.

Hydorman, thanking you for taking the time to check in on this. I am looking forward to further inputs.

Let's keep our sanity here guys! Happy Reefing!

-Prof

I need to amend my above statement. Under magnification it does appear a protective coating is present in my magnet, however it has been compromised and allowed water intrusion under it.

-Prof

For informational purposes, here is a pic of my rusted magnet under 10X magnification.



You can clearly see where the protective coating is starting to bubble underneath (whitish areas) the okay areas (gray) and the lower left hand side where there is full on corrosive action. This portion protrudes ~ 3/16" of an inch above the level of the magnets surface.

-Prof

A modded tunze 6025 gets around 1100 gph for the price of two koralia 1s. No rust issue. Ok, let's worry about something else like global warming or what's for dinner.

i have had wonderful experiences with hydor koralia pumps as well. i have one koralia 4 that i was running for maybe a year before i tore down that tank. the pump still works fine and i use it to mix water change batches. i have one koralia 1 thats been working great for a few months. i have three koralia nanos. and i have had no problems with them. however, i did inspect my pumps magnets earlier today and although there was no rust, some of the magnets had gouges in the protective epoxy coating.
according to the rep at hydor there are two coatings over the rare-earth magnet -- one of zinc, and one of epoxy on top of the zinc. according to the tech i spoke to, the magnets from my pumps were all from the "same batch" (he asked for the serial #'s on the back of the nano). even with the scratch on the epoxy, the zinc coat protects the magnet from exposure to saltwater (but i wouldnt want ZINC leaching into my water either!!! )
either way, they said that this is an isolated incident and they are sending me new magnets. i trust that this shouldnt cause any problems, as my tanks have been doing WONDERFUL and i have a non in each of them
either way, i agree no need to panic
i am glad that prof brought this issue to everyones attention -- even if its not causing any problem its good to be aware of things that can rust or "go bad" in ones hardware...


haha! global warming is a good issue to start worrying about...
maybe if everyone on nano reef started biking to work/school wed make up for all the hydrocarbons our tanks are burning (or better yet we should all go solar (i was thinking pv panels, but it just ocured to me -- sun-lit reefs )

Thank you for contributing nothing of value.



Glad you have a resolution that makes you happy. I am a bit concerned about the Zinc coating. I intend to contact Hydor later this evening to get some more particulars on the magnet and it's manufacture to scratch my own itch and statisfy my curiosity. I will post anything I find out.

-Prof

-

I believe it is actually nickle plated not zinc.

I have my MP20 now, but I am using the koralia in my sump for extra flow, guess i'll be checking it.