Well I am doing it again. Upgrading my tank, this time for the last time (unless I move into a bigger apartment where I can dedicate a whole wall to a larger tank. LOL).

I had the opportunity to get my hands on a 55g tank for $60 (Canadian). I have the feeling this tank is not a 55g but a 57g. The dimensions it was sold to me are 36l x 18w x 22h. Which makes it the same as Oceanics illuminata, but with a rim. Either way, for now I am going to treat this as a 55g. Just in case.

I will be moving everything in my current 29g into the new tank.

the final stock list and hardware I would like to include will be the following:

Hardware:

- 57g tank (old style oceanic w/trim)
- 36" 234w 6x39w Tek T5HO light
- 40lb pacific black live sand
- 65lbs live rock fully cured.
- Aquaclear 70 HOB Filter (200gph)
- Vortech MP 20 (1500gph max)
- Vortech MP 10 (1500gph max)
- Koralia 3 (860gph)
- AquaC Remora Skimmer w/ 1200+Drain
- 300w heater

Livestock:[

- 1 x SA Onyx Clownfish (Ordering an extra in case of issues. once paired. the 3rd will have a new home in my sisters' tank so it doesn't get picked on my the other two)
- 1x Picasso Clownfish
- 1 x Blue Devil Damsel (If overly aggressive it will have a new home elsewhere)
- 2 x Bengaii Cardinal.. (0xMIA)
- 1x Starry Blenny
- 1x McCosker's Flasher Wrasse


- 7 hermit crabs
- 20+ nassarius snails (7 large, 10+ small, 8 babies)
- 2 trochus snails
- 5 cerith snails
- 1 Turbo snails

- Pulsing Xenia on rocks beginning to really go nuts now.. time for frags.
- Aussie Duncan 24heads + New duncan frag now at 16 heads
- Candy Canes Green 8 heads and growing
- Zoanathids: Peach Eye and Radioactive dragoneye and Orange rimmed, Red blue centres, Yellow Centre Orange rimmed.
- Green Star Polyps covered over three rocks and sand.
- various SPS x 9 (MontiCaps, Digis, Bottlebrush, Tenuis, TriColor, purple haze encrusting, rainbow encrusting, pocillipora, green unknown acro, green porites)
- Dendrophyllia
- Toadstool leather
- Sebae (Heterachtis Crispa) Anemone
- Orange Green with tiny purple tipped (rainbow) Bubble Tipped Anemone
- Green ring Acan
- Pink and Teal Acan
- Bright red Acan
- Black Cherry Acan
- Lavendar Acan
- Olive Forest Acan
- Christmas Favia
- Green mouthed Yumas on a rock
- Assorted mushroom rock being held for a friend.
- 4 feather dusters

- Purple Octodes (Macroalgae).. little bits here and there but being eaten by turbo snail.

So please let me know what you think about my plans and stocking list.

When I set up the live rock I plan on making ridges to separate the LPS and soft corals.

Once it is set up I will add lots of pics.

Bump for the afternoon members to comment if they would like.

Thanks for the info it really helps.

Yes, I have the AC70 half moded into a fuge right now and it is working great. I think I am going to add an AC mini to put polyfill in to filter the water.

I have been watching the blue damsel. He only bugged the current gobies for a day when they were first added, but now he doesnt bother them at all. But I am highly considering getting rid of him when I do the upgrade. It's a shame, as I like his blue colour.

Yes, the Acropora will be added last after it is well established. I want to ensure the others are doing fine first.

I wasnt sure about adding another Koralia or not. since I will have other water movement items from the K1, Mj1200, AC70, ACmini and skimmer. Totally over 600gph of water movement. I am definately going to look into this. Thanks.

600 gph for a tank is not good enough. 20-30X turn over is recommended for a LPS softy tank. 50X+ for SPS. I run 71X and my corals are all happy.

Well yestarday I took down the other tank and set up the 55g. I ended up getting what I needed in the mail. I am just waiting for the T5 lights which should arrive in the mail sometime around 10:30am.

Here are some pics of my progress of setting it up.

This is the empty tank sitting on the stand. Yes. I managed to get it up there all by myself. It was really heavy, but I was able to manipulate it by getting the end up first and then raising the rest up.
For leveling I put two boards underneath. This also ensures that the front and back rims of the tank are securely supported as otherwise it would not have fit. Thankfully I had those boards laying around from an old tv stand I used to have.


Tank shot showing the live sand.


Close up of the live sand. Pacific Black Reef.


Foggy tank shot. Thankfully it is clearing up bit by bit.


Tank shot tonight. Water is getting clearer. Once I get more rock in there tomorrow I will update with more pics. For now though all my fish are happy with the new room they have, especially my clownfish.

awwwwwwww.. ALMOST another 4 foot beast clan member.


Tank is nice.. I like the size

Thanks Kraylen.

I am really glad I got this size because any longer and it would not have fit in my apartment. LOL. I will have to move for the next upgrade or permanently sit on the floor.

Here is a quick update with the new lights and 30lbs of live rock added in.



Closer front tank shot


View slightly from the right side showing the added caves.


Left hand side of the tank showing the space I left back there for the more shy fish to hang out.

Everything is progressing very nicely in this tank. I took some more pics tonight especially since I was feeding my sun coral.


Under the atcinics:

Blastos


Candycanes, Zoas and Suncoral


Cleaner Shrimp and GSP frags


Duncans


Frogspawn frag


Front Tank Shot



Suncoral Feeding Time:

Before


Using the top half of a 2Litre pop bottle to protect the coral and food during spot feeding. I use a mix of all frozen saltwater medly, brine shrimp and baby brine shrimp for the new baby heads appearing.


This Nassarius snail was adament he was gonna get something to eat.


He succeeded at it too!


After feeding


Suncoral looking much nicer and happy now!


and finally one of the scissortail gobies poking it's head out of one of the small caves on the left side of the tank.

Here is a quick update:

New $10 sps frags. I don't know what they names of them are. I do know the bottom one glows a bright flourescent green when just the atcinics are on.


Zoa Garden


Octo Frogspawn


Mr. Urchin


2 baby Onyx clownfish bred by Erik of ChristoClowns. These guys are so cute. I totally fell in love with them.


Atcinic shot the babies. Wish I had a better camera for macro shots.


Metallic Green BTA 3" in diameter.

Here are some pics, mostly of the acropora I got in from frag-a-lot. Gotta love $10 frag sales.

These pics I will put in succession from today showing the different colours the same acros give off under different lighting and different angles. If you know what the generic names of these acros are please tell me. I would greatly appreciate it.

Front shot


Back shot


Back shot with flash. The one on the left is definately showing more green and purple tip each day. I think it is the Acro Tenius. Not sure though. I am still trying to figure out the common names for all my acros.
The acro on the right has a much paler green to it which my camera has a hard time picking up. When all lights are on, it has a dark pink/red colouration. The same with the polyps.


Back shot atcinic. Sadly my camera takes poor atcinic shots. They are just too washed out. I am gonna have to work on that.


Here is the acro I have had since the AP24. It never did really well from the beginning and before it went into this tank it got RTN from the high salinity issue I had.
Thankfully, I was lucky and I didn't loose the whole frag. The encrusted base has stayed and all the polyps have actually come out. It is really beginning to colour up now and under the atcinics it has a nice pale lime green colour around the polyps.


One of the 8 brittle stars living in my live rock.


Here is a better pic of my baby onyx clownfish. They are doing awsome. I put the BTA in with them for security, but they didnt want anything to do with it so it is now in the main tank.
These little guys have so much personality. When I open the screen top of the tank they immediately come up to the surface. They both like to headbutt my finger when I put it on the water surface.


BTA when put in the tank. Of course it didnt stay there for long, but has spent the last 24hrs chasing my Big clown back and forth between it's two sleeping spots on the top right corners of the tank. I can only hope it picks one and stays there.

Ever wonder why people would want an urchin?

Here is the answer;


And after he was done that spot. All nice and clean:


Once the other powerhead is done, it is on to this one next. Oh and you can just make out my BTA in the back right corner there. Happily sitting in his favourite spot away from the T5 lighting.


Feather Caulerpa growing nicely in the sectioned off back left area of the tank.


Couple close ups of one of my SPS I am thinking may be a tortusa.






Acro SP.


This Acro is starting to encrust back over itsself.




Zoa Garden again


Octo Frogspawn doing very well now. It likes the spot it is in.





Pods have significantly increased and there is no where I look where there aren't any. If things continue that way, I may consider a red mandarin goby.

The damsel is still being submissive to the other fish and has began to pick at the algae growing rather than eating the fish flakes. He remains to be fat and happy. He has a new territory around the skimmer intake and outtake (which the later I need to develop some s piping to reduce microbubble issues).

The baby Onyx are doing very well. It is a pain in the derier though to keep cleaning the breeding net. I am going to get one of those plastic critter keepers and drill small holes in it. I think with a little cleaning magnet it will help and the clowns will be big enough then not to slip through.

Of new hitchhikers I have with this tank there are 8 brittle stars, spaghetti worms. I have also been following along with the baby tubo snails I have had. There are still 2 of them in there and they have continued to grow steadily.

The sun coral has a bunch of new mouths growing on it. One of them is orange which was an awsome suprise. I would like to get a black sun coral eventually.

My Metallic Green BTA is happy in his spot on the top right corner. It doesn't seem to mind the water changes, when the water level goes down and then back up. So as long as it is happy, so am I.

Future plans for the tank:
- Red Mushrooms - only 1-2 to start they can do their thing on their own.
- Torch Coral frag
- Hammer coral frag
- SPS frags, for which I will hold out for an Oregon Tort.
- Black sun coral
- Firefish Goby
- Mandarin Goby (big maybe)

Today I had the chance to upgrade the baby onyx clowns' home. The breeding net was getting too dirty too fast and after 24 hours you couldn't see through it, so while I was at Walmart they had a goldfish/betta bowl for $11 so I got it. Not only is it larger than the breeder net, it is made of plastic and easier to clean.

When I got home with it, I immediately took my rotary tool and drilled small holes in the side and bottom to allow the water to flow through more in addition to the flow in the top. This has actually allowed the water to cycle from top, to bottom and back to top in the unit and lets the extra food the babies don't eat in a few minutes to escape into the rest of the tank where the other fish have nicely taken advantage of it.

Going with the clear plastic also allows the established fish to see the babies and vice versa in the hopes when they are of adequate size to release freely in the tank, there won't many if any issues.



The big clownfish taking a quick glance at both of the little ones. Sad thing is she is not really interested in them, but the largest of the little ones is definately interested in her.


Close up of the two of them. The largest in the forefront.


Showing the smaller one a little clearer. It is finally developing some black on the pectoral fins.


Closer shot of the larger baby showing the black rim coming in around the white headstripe. Woo Hoo.

omg, they are cuuuute. nice upgrade

Thanks.

Nice tank! Its really cool watching those baby clowns develop. Mine seem like they just started a growth spurt.

Nice Tank

best-o-luck

Update for mid-June

Suncorals doing awsome and out in the light.


Zoas happy as usual


Big Momma keeps trying to host these little mushrooms.


Update on my litte Onyx Clowns. They are growing and changing according to schedule. I spent some time tracking growth on some other members' pages and marked growth, bar development and colour changes based on number of days.

Here is the growth schedule I determined, give or take a week.
Received mine May 20th.
DAY. 45.

June 7th = 18 days – work on getting larger and start to develop some black at head strip.
June 16th = 9 days – continue to grow bigger. Thicker mid bar.
June 25th = 8 days – mid bar develops to thicker and a bit longer
July 10th = 15 days – smaller clown should start to develop white mid bar, should look like larger white dot or more.
July 26th = 16 days – smaller clown should start getting bigger
August 5th = 10 days – thicker white bar develop on larger and black should be starting on body btwn 1st and mid stripe.
August 18th = 13 days – Larger fish should have almost full white bar on at least one side. Smaller should have larger bar. Tail bar start. Little black starting on smaller clown at head stripe.
Sept 27th = 40 days – Black should be developed from 1st to mid bar on larger fish, about half down. Noticeable. Tail bar thicker.
Oct 24th = 27 days – smaller clown has more black to mid bar, mid bar starting from bottom and thick tail bar. Larger clown starting black after mid bar. Full tail bar, full black btwn head and mid bar.


When I first got my clowns, the larger one was about 0.68 of an inch. It is now 0.98 of an inch.
the smaller clown was 0.46 of an inch and is now 0.65 of an inch. (I used photoshop to be able to do measurements.)

Here is a recent pick of the little clowns and big clown. They are definatey looking a bit bigger.


Here is the larger of the babies. The white bar here is thicker and a little lower down.


Here is the smaller of the babies has continued to grow mosty and the black is still coming in on the pectoral fins.


New front tank shot from today

Here are some more pic updates from today.

The red mushies are nice and happy now. They finally attached themselves to a rock.


The acro is doing great.


This big hermit likes bugging my candycanes.


Blasto is finally developing babies.


My MGBTA has finally (i hope) selected a permanent home.


Here is a sequence of pix showing me feeding my MGBTA silversides.NOM NOM NOM NOM....





And finally I got the set of blue LEDs in the mail today that I won on ebay. They make perfect moonlights and only cost me $35 Canadian, shipping included. They are made up of 4 connections of 3-led beam bulbs each and are waterproof.

The Metallic Green BTA


Frogspawn and Duncans


The front tank shot. In person the leds do not look that bright, but the camera setting I use lets more light in. I had a closer up shot of the red mushies under the Leds, but it was too blurry, but the red really pops out under these too!!


Let me know what u think.

bump for afternoon.

Does this tank suck or do people like it?

I like it so far, but there is still plenty of room for more corals, haha.

You might want to prune the macro algae around your sps frags, they could get irritated by it.

Nice rockwor, btw, planty of caves/tunnels and lots of places for corals, and very cute baby clowns, haha.

Daniel

Yeah, I plan on adding more corals just after the summer when I have saved up enough to buy more.
I am planning on 5 more Acro frags, Hammer colony, Torch coral frags, and once I nip the aptaisia in the butt, I am going to add more on those rocks too. I haven't selected which other corals I want to add.
In addition to the corals, I will also be adding 2 firefish gobies.

The macroalgae in the front is driving me nuts. I proon it back once a week and it grows back in like it is now in no time. That stuff got carried in on a frag I purchased from fragalot.ca. It already killed my green acro frag so I am trying to keep it away from my other SPS. I will take bryopsis over this stuff any day!

I'm glad you like the baby clownfish. I love these little guys and they are growing at a pretty good pace. I love watching the weekly changes in them.

The onyx clowns are coming along nicely. Check out my 9G to see the latest pics of mine...

Me like.

--bubbles

Thanks Bubbles, I am glad you like my tank.

Star, I am always checking out your thread for updates to your pix, LOL. I have you saved in my favourites.

On a good note, my larger baby onyx is now developing the mid-bar from the bottom, evenly on both sides. Right now the white there is the size of a pinhead.

Well since the site had its' oopsie and lost posts for the last two weeks, I am just gonna repost my pics and let them speak for themselves.

You have a pair of scissortails? I rarely see them, and I've only seen 1 lol. Its been at a crappy LFS for around 5 months

Yes, I have a pair of scissortails. When I went to my Seller, the person he buys from had only sent him 1 firefish and it went missing through his system and we couldn't find it, but I had seen these guys in the one tank and they were always trying to hide behind and under rocks and he gave me a good deal on them. $22 for the pair, so I couldn't say no.

They have such a great personality and once they get used to your system they barely hide. The two are always hanging out together and I had noticed in the beginning, when the smaller one was feeling well and hiding a lot, the larger one would go to it and encourage it to come out and eat.

Also, now that I have new bulbs for my T5, and upped to 3 Aquablue + 22000k, I can see where they actually radiate a nice blue sheen on their grey areas.

They also get along and like to play with my clown and damsel.

Ahhh nice thats like my blenny, I just put him in my breeder and he is hiding so I have to target feed him, but the little clowns go up to him just to piss him off lol

edit: those clowns look mor elike picassos too!!!

Yeah some fish stress out more than others. I find it is the hyper ones that have the hardest time. But now they both are out and swim the whole tank and only go into their burrow to sleep at night.

The yellowy orange clown is a picasso. I got him for $100... Canadian money... In just the week I have had him in my tank he had started to develop black on him now.

The bright red one below it is my larger baby onyx clown named Omen.
I didn't bother taking a pic of the smaller baby onyx as there was no change in him, but I will in a couple of days as he is finally starting to develop his mid-bar. It is the size of a pin prick right now. LOL.

Hey Neb....Are the clowns still in protection mode?

Yep, the baby onyx are still in protection mode. They will be that way for at least another month and a half. But they will be upgraded to a larger container in a couple of weeks. It is rather funny though, because my larger baby onyx Omen wants keeps on wanting to chase the picasso away from the my female Big Momma and away from my smaller baby clown any time it approaches the container.

Time for more updated pix:

Finally got my SPS order in today. Not everything I recieved was what I ordered, but at least it looked healthy. If you can name any of these for me that I don't know, please do so.. thanks.



unknown


unknown


Bali tri-color on the left


Neon Suharsonoi


The same acros from the left side near rear of the tank.


My baby onyx clowns. You can barely make out the white mid-bar starting on the smaller one. Yes, I tripled checked to ensure it just wasn't encrusted calcium I was seeing in the pic.


Male picasso darkening up. Him and my female get along now and sleep together half the night.


My poor Octo Frogspawn. It was accidentally dropped (not by me) when I went to pick it up and it resulted in brown jelly disease developing. I spent the last 3 days syphoning away the brown jelly to reduce spreading, and today I don't see anymore. Keeping my fingers crossed.


Coco Worm being happy, was considering this pic for Photo contest, but after seeing Kraylen's macro pix mine don't compare.


Hammer is happy and so is the frogspawn.

Can't help with the identification question but I have another question for you. How do you like those plastic frag plugs?

I personally don't care for the plastic frag plugs because not only do they really stand out, but it is harder to find a decent place to firmly attach the frag to where it will look decent. If I didn't have that one piece of tonga branch in my tank, it would have been hard to find a place to put them where it looked appealing.

your tank is coming along quite nicely yourself! I threw a lawnmower blenny in my tank and he keeps my hair algae in check. tons of personality too!
love the clowns they look great!

Thanks fish...lol... I have some new pics now to add.


This acro is continuing to encrust over the dead portions. I don't know what type it is, but when the actinics or moonlights are on the polyps glow green.


This acro, which I am thinking is a tri-color valida or Cali Tort (other side has green flourescents). It is slowly deepening its' purple colouring.


Right tank shot from today. My BTA is happy, Octo frog extended out again and on the mend. The hammer and branching frogspawn are happy, and the red mushies are doing well. I also moved a set of candy canes over to this side of the tank as there is a little less flow there.


Here is my larger baby clownfish Omen. As you can see his mid-bar is coming in nicely and is surrounded by black. It appears even on both sides and I am hoping it doesn't misbar. Also, the black around the head-bar is thicker.


My smaller baby clown, Runt is slowly developing his mid-bar. As you can see now, it is larger than a pin head and developing on both sides.


Here are all 4 of my clowns so you can see the size difference. Omen is now at the size where I could release him into the main tank if I wanted to, but I'm not..... yet. I am arranging to set up a 25g reef flats tank and will be putting the Picasso and Runt in there.


Finally, my FTS for today.

Just a quick image update here.

My baby onyx clownfish Omen is getting his tail-bar in now. A couple weeks ahead of schedule. Woo Hoo.


Also the color development on my Picasso is coming along nicely. He is getting a lot of his black in now. Too see the colour differentiation scroll back to July 14th's pics of both of them. What a difference.

Your corals look great! The new ones are noice!

Your clowns are looking better and better

Thanks.. there are not many new corals in here anyways because they were dead the next day. I am having issues with fragalot.ca right now not wanting to uphold his own policies despite my notifying him within the required window and also supplying him with pics of everything dead. He already had to do a reorder for me once and the stuff he sent me was dead, rotting and stinking to high heaven when I received it. He was even removed as a sponsor from another forum because he refused to respond to the complaints of other customers who were having the same issue. His business has really gone downhill.

Yes.. I am so glad the clowns are looking better and better. Omen is starting to get his black coming in on the tail and dorsal fins now so I am really happy about that. In another month or so he will get his freedom in this tank and Runt will get her freedom in the 25g.

That tanks cycling is going fine. It has a diatom bloom happening right now with a little algae starting. I figure in another week or so I will steal some hermits and a couple cerith snails from my 55g and drop into it to let them start cleaning. I plan on getting more after Sept.10th. I am also buying some healthy frags from Nematoad.

I am loving the coco worm and will eventually get another one of those.. or a couple more. The dendros are healthy, octo frog colony is still deteriorating though, but the reg frog and hammer frags I have nearby are happy as heck so not sure why the colony isn't happy, other than the fact it still is not happy from when the seller accidently dropped it when he took it out of his car to give to me. At least he has promised me good on it.

I will eventually show pics when I can get to a regular PC again and away from my crappy old Mac.

Your tank is looking great. Sorry to hear about all the troubles with fragalot. I was thinking about placing an order from him alittle while back (the $10 frags are tempting) but thankfully nematoad provided me with some links that helped me steer clear from him. I'm sure you will be happy with your frags from nematoad everything I recieved was great.

I'm not sure if I just read over it or not but where did you pick your clowns up? Im looking to add my first fish in a few weeks and i love the looks of onyx clowns.

Sorry about fragalot, hopefully you get that fixed.

Your clowns really are looking awesome, I can't wait to see them in their new home. I am sure they will like it.
I think its kind of odd how difficult it seems to be to get corals in Canada. I have always liked coco worms, I will be watching to see how yours does!

Well good luck with everything as always, hopefully you get your new PC soon, I want new pics haha.

Hi Brian,

Yes I did get my baby onyx actually. If you go through all the pics from May 20th to today you will see their growth pics. Omen and Runt are the baby onyx. By next month they should be getting the deeper black coloration on them. By Nov they should be half covered in their black.

I picked up my clowns from Jim in Gananoque, fortyfathoms.net. He ordered then in from Erik, aka Christosclowns and had them shipped to someone he knows in the states and then he picked them up there on delivery day and brought them up into Canada. That is the only way we Canadians can get em.

Nemotoad must have directed you to canreef then. That is the site where most of us are complaining about Burc. I will never deal with him again.

Unfortunately, it is not so much it being hard to get corals in Canada, as it is with Burc having a nice $10 special and sending dead stuff, or stuff that is not what you ordered and not wanting to honor it and then not responding to complaints.

There are a few other websites I can order from, but now I think I will deal with other hobbyists and with Jim in Gananoque because I know his stuff is good and his colony prices cannot be beat, they also included taxes in the prices.

Actually my coco worm does awsome! he gets moved all the time by the hermit crabs, but he doesn't mind, he will go into his tube for a little while and come out again. His tube is also developing nicely and has grown about an inch since I got him last month. He filters a lot out of the system too and well, poops a lot too.

Wow I really think I want to get one (coco worm)!

I can see how that 10$ deal sound nice, but with what happened its obviously not worth it. I forgot about all the taxes up there, but working with locals is always cheaper. I don't have many locals who have the corals I want which is a bummer.

That I know what you mean. Jim isn't local to me, but he is worth giving my stepmother $30 in gas to drive me up and back every 6 months or so when he has a bunch of what I would like to buy up there.

Haha sounds like a good plan, a couple big orders a year.

I wish I lived in Cali, everyone there seems to have aquariums lol.

Yeah no kidding.

I almost have everything I want. I am still looking to get 2 firefish goby, and I need to get another scissortail dartfish, because one went carpet surfing. The other I managed to save when it tried the same thing about a week ago. Not sure how it got passed the eggcrate.. so I will get another 2 of those. They like being in groups.

I am not sure if I will add a small goby to the 25g tank. I will need to think on that.

In terms of corals.. I have the sps noted down from nemotoad..

so, then I would like to get an orange sun coral, black sun coral. (All the sun coral will be moved into the 25g eventually. It has 130w PC Lighting so I don't have to worry about lighting requirements for them since they are non-photosynthetic.
Elegance coral, torch coral and an open brain, all for the larger tank.

Now one thing I am searching for and is hard to find is a good variety of macroalgae. We can get grape caulerpa, knife caulerpa, ulva and chaeto easily, but the nice red stuff, like fire fern etc is not readily available.

I think someone was selling some of the fire algae a while back (mnherper sorry if thats spelled wrong) but he is located in the US. I would check out reef cleaners if you haven't already, john has some cool macros and your LFS that helps you get stuff across the border might work for getting that.

For a goby, get a yasha and pistol shrimp pair. They are awesome.

Yeah I looked at reefcleaner.org, but again it is an american company so they cannot ship to canada. They have some nice stuff there. I would make a huge order from them if I could get it across the border.

I was sort of thinking of a yasha and pistol mix.. that would be interesting and different and I have the perfect cave area for them already. hmm. good call.

So you can't do orders where they ship to your LFS if its from another company?

Ya I am thinking about getting a pair too, can't decide between my cramped 5.5g or my 24g where I would never see them.