lemonyx
Oct 26 2009, 01:23 AM
hcsceo/Firewolf4
PCB's - I would imagine that we can order a bare PCB and just assembly it ourselves. Will you provide a pdf or jpg of the top and bottom (bottom wrong side up) so we can do the "toner transfer" PCB if some of us want to make our own boards?
Ronyx
Oct 26 2009, 01:49 AM
QUOTE (neanderthalman @ Sep 28 2009, 10:35 PM)

...and I don't care for your holier-than-thou elitism and dismissive attitude.
...Pointing out a ridiculous situation that could create a hazard only points out the ridiculousness of the point you're making. If you have to try in order to make it dangerous - then it isn't really dangerous, now is it?
....You've been spouting bullshiat ...none of your inflated ego and nonsense. ...you came out with the most dismissive, insulting, and egotistical response you could have possibly come up with.
I think you're doing great work with this controller - but NR doesn't need the attitude - alright?
Exactly who has attitude now? Chill dude ...
NeveSSL
Oct 26 2009, 01:57 AM
QUOTE (lemonyx @ Oct 26 2009, 01:23 AM)

hcsceo/Firewolf4
PCB's - I would imagine that we can order a bare PCB and just assembly it ourselves. Will you provide a pdf or jpg of the top and bottom (bottom wrong side up) so we can do the "toner transfer" PCB if some of us want to make our own boards?
Gotta love Press 'n Peel Blue.

But I would imagine it would be in their best interests to provide a PCB seeing as how you get major discounts at higher quantities.
Just a thought, though. I could be totally wrong!
Brandon
lemonyx
Oct 26 2009, 02:21 AM
Brandon
I'm sure you're right about the 'bulk' buy and the PCB are cheaper, but just in case...
Oh I don't use that expensive Press N' Peal Blue. I use this iron on stuff that you get from the fabric shop. You can see both sides and match-up the pads better and after you run it thru the laminator, toss it in the water and it's gone. But best of all, it's waaaay cheaper (less expensive) than the blue.
lovingHDTV
Oct 26 2009, 07:11 AM
QUOTE (lemonyx @ Oct 26 2009, 01:23 AM)

hcsceo/Firewolf4
PCB's - I would imagine that we can order a bare PCB and just assembly it ourselves. Will you provide a pdf or jpg of the top and bottom (bottom wrong side up) so we can do the "toner transfer" PCB if some of us want to make our own boards?
He already stated above that he will be providing the PDF files if you'd like to etch your own board.
dave
Milamber
Oct 26 2009, 08:08 AM
QUOTE (Ronyx @ Oct 26 2009, 01:49 AM)

Exactly who has attitude now? Chill dude ...
Wow! I just went through a time warp...
Your reply was one month too late.
Let's try to stay on topic and keep the discussion open.
evilc66
Oct 26 2009, 09:44 AM
QUOTE (lemonyx @ Oct 26 2009, 03:21 AM)

Brandon
I'm sure you're right about the 'bulk' buy and the PCB are cheaper, but just in case...
Oh I don't use that expensive Press N' Peal Blue. I use this iron on stuff that you get from the fabric shop. You can see both sides and match-up the pads better and after you run it thru the laminator, toss it in the water and it's gone. But best of all, it's waaaay cheaper (less expensive) than the blue.
Care to share the details on what you use?
WildWillie
Oct 26 2009, 03:47 PM
QUOTE
Oh I don't use that expensive Press N' Peal Blue. I use this iron on stuff that you get from the fabric shop. You can see both sides and match-up the pads better and after you run it thru the laminator, toss it in the water and it's gone. But best of all, it's waaaay cheaper (less expensive) than the blue.
QUOTE ( @ Oct 26 2009, 08:44 AM)

Care to share the details on what you use?
I'd be interested, too. It'd work great for my do-it-yourself xmas light electronics!
hcsceo
Oct 26 2009, 03:48 PM
QUOTE (evilc66 @ Oct 26 2009, 09:44 AM)

Care to share the details on what you use?
Yea would like to know to. Press and Peel Blue with the laminator looks real good but it is expensive.
Yes you will be able to buy a completed board made from a manufacture or buy the complete kit.
Everyone is healthy again. Work continues.
Steve
theatrus
Oct 26 2009, 05:14 PM
Glad to hear it

I assume you'll release the schematics when you have everything else finalized?
Militant Jurist
Oct 26 2009, 07:20 PM
QUOTE (hcsceo @ Oct 26 2009, 03:48 PM)

Yea would like to know to. Press and Peel Blue with the laminator looks real good but it is expensive.
Yes you will be able to buy a completed board made from a manufacture or buy the complete kit.
Everyone is healthy again. Work continues.
Steve

Can't wait to see more progress!
MentalDragon
Oct 26 2009, 10:24 PM
I like to use the UV Light method using PhotoResist PCBs when etching my own boards. Very clean and you could do really skinny lines with no problems.
Firewolf4
Nov 1 2009, 01:47 AM
QUOTE (MentalDragon @ Oct 26 2009, 09:24 PM)

I like to use the UV Light method using PhotoResist PCBs when etching my own boards. Very clean and you could do really skinny lines with no problems.
To make sure that the traces meet spec for harsh environmental conditions we'll be designing with thicker traces with the exception of a few smaller points that will be designed as fusible traces. I would prefer to overdesign the board and know it's rock solid than to maybe use a thinner than specified trace to have it fail at a later time. We're also looking at making the inputs modular so builders can change up what's being monitored. This may require putting in a few jumper blocks that weren't initially planned. Currently the board design is for an all inclusive board. Once that's completed and proved out, we'll begin a later revision that will start making the input ports modular. The modular ports add a whole new level of complications in circuit design, firmware/software changes and physical size restraints.
Russ
lemonyx
Nov 1 2009, 02:37 AM
This is what I have used for PCB Toner Transfer
http://www.sewingplace.com/index.asp?PageA...amp;ProdID=4522. I make sure that there is a fresh HP toner cartridge in the printer, print the art work and then use the Laminator.
This stuff dissolves in water but not 100% - just take a tooth brush and lightly scrub and it's clean.
Here's a sample of something that I've made - just an extra artwork. (don't mind the bad trace, it happened when I split this apart for pix) Double-sided no via's (feedthru's)
Vancouver Reefer
Nov 1 2009, 03:48 PM
You mean you then feed this through the laminator with the pcb in between and use the laminator heat to transfer the toner??/ Then wash off the excess toner and then etch the board???
lemonyx
Nov 1 2009, 04:17 PM
Exactly - I dunk the board into water to take off the "carrier" after it's ran thru the laminator 3 times - I use a Muratic Acid and Peroxide mix as the echant it's a 2/1 ratio if i remember right 2 peroxide to 1 acid- forgot the chemical name something like copper sulfate or ???
ls7corvete
Nov 3 2009, 05:23 PM
theatrus
Nov 3 2009, 06:01 PM
There is also the Uzebox/Fuzebox device - a full 8 bit video game console with TV output, at a fraction of the actual cost of consoles from those days.
evilc66
Nov 3 2009, 06:17 PM
Nice.
hcsceo
Nov 4 2009, 12:44 PM
Wow that is awesome. I think the move to the bigger processor was a good choice.
Quick update. One of the main reasons I wanted to be done by Sept. is that I'm an avid hunter and love astronomy and this is the time of the year I'm outdoors as much as possible with my wife and kids. When I'm not hunting I'm camping and looking at stars all night. It probably isn't the most exciting life but it keeps me out of the bars I used to love so much. So things have moved a bit slower but Firewolf is working hard on finishing the PCB design. He finds little errors as he goes along and I correct them and send them back and he continues on. Like the most recent lapse of brain power showed through as I completely forgot to include a battery for the clock chip, duh. So thanks for everyone's patience as we are still working hard to finish.
Steve
theatrus
Nov 4 2009, 01:45 PM
Don't worry, half of the errors show up when you get around to actually building the thing

Looking forward to seeing a release of the design.
Firewolf4
Nov 4 2009, 03:08 PM
QUOTE (theatrus @ Nov 4 2009, 12:45 PM)

Don't worry, half of the errors show up when you get around to actually building the thing

Looking forward to seeing a release of the design.
< Makes Note> add choice of expletives in manual for why this bleeping part wont fit where they say it's supposed to.
rbrusletto
Nov 10 2009, 12:22 AM
Ahh man!! This is such an awesome project.
When it does get to the web server/interface portion, I'd be more than happy to help out w/ the interface design, I've been doing web developement for ~15 years in perl, php, ruby, and a few obscure languages, and I deal with networking and linux stuff all the time. Definitely keeping up to date w/ this.
ladyamanda
Nov 10 2009, 12:26 AM
QUOTE (rbrusletto @ Nov 9 2009, 09:22 PM)

Ahh man!! This is such an awesome project.
When it does get to the web server/interface portion, I'd be more than happy to help out w/ the interface design, I've been doing web developement for ~15 years in perl, php, ruby, and a few obscure languages, and I deal with networking and linux stuff all the time. Definitely keeping up to date w/ this.
This is probalby well beyond my abilities, as I'm only starting to play with electronics, (Make Magazine bit me hard - I'd love to pick one up and try my hand at this project!
eswong
Nov 15 2009, 03:20 PM
Why wouldn't you just buy a Reef Keeper lite? They are $99!
neanderthalman
Nov 15 2009, 04:54 PM
QUOTE (eswong @ Nov 15 2009, 03:20 PM)

Why wouldn't you just buy a Reef Keeper lite? They are $99!
Sometimes, that's not the point. Some of us
like to DIY.
Plus, this looks to be better than a reefkeeper,
ls7corvete
Nov 15 2009, 05:46 PM
Can incorporate it into other projects and reprogram as you like.
Milamber
Nov 15 2009, 05:51 PM
I'm not quite sold on the looks yet. The RKL looks very polished and the base unit price is pretty sweet.
I think where this has huge potential is that if memory serves, it will be open source and hopefully heavily supported by other DIY'ers. I just hope that they can pump these out while there is still a big interest and people are available to offer help.
Reggie
Nov 15 2009, 06:14 PM
Just saw this thread - wow!
Anyway, whenever there's time, I had an idea I suggested over at the neptune forum at RC. It's basically support for Twitter. I know that there's a twitter library floating around for arduino. Anyway, here are my suggestions:
Add support for Twitter.
I can see several adavantages to this:
1. An outlet or event can tweet it's status. An outlet can tweet that it is on, or a tweet can be sent if say Temp > 83.
2. Send commands easily. Just say: @mycontroller PUMP_1 OFF
3. No need for DynDNS since it just connects to your local network waiting for tweet commands. If it receives one, it sends back the answer.
4. No special software needed. As long as you have access to a browser or Twitter client (computer or phone), you can 'talk' to your controller.
5. Connect devices easily. If other devices have Twitter support too, they can be programmed to do something based on a tweet from another device. Maybe someday an Twitter enabled window opener will activate when pH is 7.8. . This is just an example but am just showing how creative you can become.
Of course, there should be some security built in like it can only accept commands from twitter accounts it follows, etc.
jewbilee
Nov 15 2009, 09:16 PM
The twitter aspect is definitely worth looking into and something I've been thinking about. Should be very cool to program which is what I'm looking forward to most!
Militant Jurist
Nov 16 2009, 06:15 PM
I like the twitter idea. I hate twitter, but I like that it would provide a way of monitoring and controlling your tank while away!
Warehouse41Ant
Nov 16 2009, 06:28 PM
QUOTE (Militant Jurist @ Nov 16 2009, 05:15 PM)

I like the twitter idea. I hate twitter, but I like that it would provide a way of monitoring and controlling your tank while away!
+1. If this had Twitter support I'd definitely buy one.
ls7corvete
Nov 16 2009, 08:30 PM
any kind of internet uplink would be cool. You guys could start now with programming the code for it. You already know the chipest
jewbilee
Nov 17 2009, 12:12 AM
The nice thing about twitter is that as long as the controller could access the internet, it could easily use twitter. And controlling via twitter be just as simple.
Firewolf4
Nov 17 2009, 03:03 AM
Guys,
Let me get the 1st revision board done before delusions of grandeur. It's great ot hear all sorts of future refinements and enhancements, but lets get the 1st units out. I can only do so much while holding a real job.
Militant Jurist
Nov 18 2009, 12:05 PM
QUOTE (Firewolf4 @ Nov 17 2009, 03:03 AM)

Guys,
Let me get the 1st revision board done before delusions of grandeur. It's great ot hear all sorts of future refinements and enhancements, but lets get the 1st units out. I can only do so much while holding a real job.

I think we're just tossing out ideas in case they are the type of ideas you guys would later say "we wish we knew that when we were building it!"

Anyways, carry on. We just want to see the first model!
doktorstick
Nov 19 2009, 03:32 PM
What is the new ETA?
hcsceo
Nov 22 2009, 12:17 PM
Well currently the ETA is ASAP. We haven't set a date at this point as my first date was too aggressive and I didn't want to miss a second date. As soon as firewolf is done with the PCB design I'll cut it on my CNC and build three for testing (Firewolf, the programmer, and myself will get one). Since the testing was done on all the circuits when I built them originally I don't imagine we'll need more than a month to verify the PCB design is good. All three of us working on the project have demanding full time jobs and families to deal with. I get up at 6am to start my day and don't get to work on this project till nearly 10pm at night. I am very excited to release the designs to everyone and see what other ideas can be added to this. The reefbuddy.com website will be the place to put all the ideas into motion and add features and code requests for the official releases.
As far as reefkeeper lite goes. I in no way want to compete with any production product on the market. At $99 the reefkeeper lite is an exceptional value. To be honest I have a reefkeeper and am very happy with it. The one big thing reefbuddy will get you is Salinity right out of the box and hopefully a community of people designing many other plugins and software code. Our R&D team will become the community with the reefbuddy website serving as the hub of information for it. The big picture behind the open source is that it can be made to do sooo much more. This is a start of a product that can do home water testing, pool controls, pond controls, FW aquariums, christmas light controls, home automation, etc. The list is really endless. I choose reef controls as the basis of the project only cause I love reeftanks. However, anything that needs water testing, power controls, or switch controls can use this product. Also, with I2c you can make it do so much more. This project gets many people a basic box, keypad, screen and open source arduino compatible processor to do any project they see fit. The exciting part of this project is not how it will look when we release it but how it will look in two years or so once it is refined with options and features that the community comes up with.
Have a happy thanksgiving.
Steve
jewbilee
Nov 22 2009, 07:09 PM
I'm really looking forward to developing some great software addons for this. Definitely a great way to put my CS degree progress to good use!
doktorstick
Nov 22 2009, 08:05 PM
Thanks Steve. I asked because I finished my LED build and started searching for DIY controller ideas since that is my next project, but seeing the direction you are heading, I want to use it at as base provided it didn't fall into vaporware.

It looks like then the time is first gated by Firewolfe and then about +1 month... so conservatively February.
thewire
Nov 24 2009, 04:37 PM
very nice project...thank you for the work!
Are we able to purchase from you or DIY ourselves?
Firewolf4
Nov 28 2009, 05:52 PM
Guys,
thank you all for your patience. I'm jamming away on the board as time permits however for my RL job, this is when they expect everything to be done yesterday. It's having me work 13 on 1 off, 12-16 hour days. They expect this to last only a few more weeks. The PCB layout is progressing with the new MPU and we've been clearing up some small issues. I'll give more updates as soon as I can,
Russ
gwenhastings
Nov 29 2009, 12:56 AM
Hi All,
count me if for 2 kits, will solder thru hoie quite happily(am in 50s and ill,so hands not steady enough and eyes not sharp enough for SMD anymore, thanks for thinking about thru hole for folks like moi(just did a sanguino breakout board in 1 hour)). And I wont be using it for aquarium/reef control but will be using it for Hydroponic flood table management and nutrient mixing via dosing pumps instead.
really neat solution for many hobbies.
kind regards and thanx for all your efforts
gwen
ps is your software guy aware of DuinOS? FreeRtos.org on the arduino platforms.. current alpha version supports I2C(and runs on the 644P also).. 1wire not working but in a few weeks hopefully.(ie not threadsafe) and as soon as your software releases, I will be attempting to make a DuinOS version of same and rewritten for Hydroponics Management and control.(check the duinos postings in the forums for the 644P support instructions).
RTOS makes things like Hydroponics/Mushroom culture/Artificial Reef Management(?) and other timer/probe data reading dependent tasks conceptually a LOT easier to deal with architectually in software.
hcsceo
Nov 30 2009, 11:34 AM
Thanks gwen for the information on your project idea. I think this controller will fit your bill perfectly. I'll talk to the programmer about the DuinOS. 1wire is a huge part of our project and the current build of Arduino is working fine for us at the moment. The 644p hasn't been a challenge in the existing software and all our old code has moved over without issue (we did have to make a few pin assignment changes).
Looks like Firewolf has updated everyone on his progress. Can't wait to see the PCB!!
Steve
QUOTE (gwenhastings @ Nov 28 2009, 11:56 PM)

Hi All,
count me if for 2 kits, will solder thru hoie quite happily(am in 50s and ill,so hands not steady enough and eyes not sharp enough for SMD anymore, thanks for thinking about thru hole for folks like moi(just did a sanguino breakout board in 1 hour)). And I wont be using it for aquarium/reef control but will be using it for Hydroponic flood table management and nutrient mixing via dosing pumps instead.
really neat solution for many hobbies.
kind regards and thanx for all your efforts
gwen
ps is your software guy aware of DuinOS? FreeRtos.org on the arduino platforms.. current alpha version supports I2C(and runs on the 644P also).. 1wire not working but in a few weeks hopefully.(ie not threadsafe) and as soon as your software releases, I will be attempting to make a DuinOS version of same and rewritten for Hydroponics Management and control.(check the duinos postings in the forums for the 644P support instructions).
RTOS makes things like Hydroponics/Mushroom culture/Artificial Reef Management(?) and other timer/probe data reading dependent tasks conceptually a LOT easier to deal with architectually in software.
Whacked
Dec 1 2009, 02:00 AM
QUOTE (jewbilee @ Nov 16 2009, 09:12 PM)

The nice thing about twitter is that as long as the controller could access the internet, it could easily use twitter. And controlling via twitter be just as simple.
Ohboy! Just what I need, a appliance that can access the internet.
"Honest honey! I have no idea how the lesbian midget circus sex video got on the computer. It must have been my reef tank!"
Seriously tho, this board sounds simply awesome. My soldering skill are non-existant but if its going to be more than a RKL,... I gotta look into this more
gwenhastings
Dec 1 2009, 03:49 PM
Hi Firewolf,
patience hell....

I am sitting on pins and needles.
BTW what program are you using for PCB creation? Eagle? Freeware? and how many layers is the board winding up to be? I was hoping to get the board layouts even before the kits available so I can get expresspcb.com running on this(or olimex.com) so I can get a couple up quickly.
warm regards
gwen
ps any board BOM available yet so I can start accumulating parts? ie for my app I dont need a keyboard LCD as I am hooking all controllers to a reloaded Linksys NSLU2(with debian 5.03) and loading my own firmware.
QUOTE (Firewolf4 @ Nov 28 2009, 02:52 PM)

Guys,
thank you all for your patience. I'm jamming away on the board as time permits however for my RL job, this is when they expect everything to be done yesterday. It's having me work 13 on 1 off, 12-16 hour days. They expect this to last only a few more weeks. The PCB layout is progressing with the new MPU and we've been clearing up some small issues. I'll give more updates as soon as I can,
Russ
Austinsminireef
Dec 1 2009, 08:24 PM
This is a super exciting thread to read and I can hardly wait to see what your final product will look like. Congratz on all your hard work guys! Im looking forward to putting one of these together.
gwenhastings
Dec 3 2009, 05:14 PM
Hi Steve,
are you going to support 2 EC probes or one(I noticed you are supporting 2 ph probes) 2 ec probbes would make it possible to have one controller do it all in my application(why I want to order 2 reefbuddys as I had 2 EC monitoring points in my application.(I still want 2 boards/kits however

gwen
gwenhastings
Dec 4 2009, 12:01 AM
Firewolf4
Dec 4 2009, 08:04 PM
QUOTE (gwenhastings @ Dec 1 2009, 02:49 PM)

Hi Firewolf,
patience hell....

I am sitting on pins and needles.
BTW what program are you using for PCB creation? Eagle? Freeware? and how many layers is the board winding up to be? I was hoping to get the board layouts even before the kits available so I can get expresspcb.com running on this(or olimex.com) so I can get a couple up quickly.
warm regards
gwen
ps any board BOM available yet so I can start accumulating parts? ie for my app I dont need a keyboard LCD as I am hooking all controllers to a reloaded Linksys NSLU2(with debian 5.03) and loading my own firmware.
The program being used is Diptrace. I hope to have a partial BOM ready by Monday ( pins and needles not included) The board will be a 2 layer board as this gives simplicity of manufacturing and I hate hidden traces, blind vias, etc.
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