You rock dude.

I appreciate it. Time to start ordering

EVILc66:
I just ordered two Meanwell ELN-60-48D dimmable drivers, will dim using profilux II controller which has 0-10v out for dimming....

I will be placing on 3 heatsinks 7.29 inch wide by 18 inches long.

How many Cree Whites and Blues would you recommend and how should i wire them assuming whites on one driver and blues on the other?

Thanks in advance

Need a tank size. If you only have two drivers, you will be limited to 26 LEDs, which doesn't sound like nearly enough if you are going to be using three 7.3"x18" heatsinks.

+1

My one 7"x20" heatsink has 26 LEDs on it.

tank is elos 70, 55 gal, 30 inches long, 22 inches deep.
Here is link to my aqua illumination led set up i have right now, i want to sell them and build my own.



I wanted the 3 heatsings to resemble my current layout. i would like to use 24 whites and 24 blues. How would you set that up given i have the 2 EL-60 48 D drivers.

48 LEDs isn't going to cover that tank. It's only 60% of the number of LEDs that you already have? Other than the want to build it, why would you do this over the AI setup?

Hey, one more question if you don't mind....

Whats the best layout for an 8.5x5 heatsink with 6 RB's and 6CW's? As in terms of light blending and so forth?

Yeah I know i have a great set up now. But the beams are too narrow and i want better spread. Looks like I will need 96 LEDs and two other drivers to compensate. So back to the question... what is the best way to connect these in series/parallel?

Four drivers for 96 LEDs? Not with ELN-60-48D drivers. 13 LEDs max in series per driver. You could put ~24 LEDs per heatsink, with two drivers per heatsink.

or run 4 rows of 6 LEDs in parallel with current mirror. Your each LED will see just under 700mA. This will let you run 24 LEDs from one ELN-60-48P or D version.

can you describe the set up with 4 rows of 6 leds and a current mirror?

1) The driver is 48v so one row of six = 6 x 3.3 = 19.8v, then

2) the driver has 1.3Amps sp 4 rows in parallel = (1.3/2) = .65 / 2 = .325 /2 = .1625 amps, isnt this too low since amps divide is parallel?

3) does a current mirror compensate for this?

Hey Evil,
I've run into somewhat of a dilemma, and mayber yo can help. I finished my set up, which is a 4 x 16 with 32 CW, 32 RB and 2 UV's in the center. I have 6 buckpucks running the 32 CW + 2 UVs and 2 RB's, and on a separate PS I have 5 buckpucks running the rest of the 30 RBs. I decided to add 6 more LEDs ( 3 CW and 3 RB) to the front of the heat sink with a wider optic to get more light/spread towards the front of the tank. I added a 6th buckpuck to the PS for the RB's to run the 6 new LEDs. The problem is, that when the 6 new LEDs are plugged in, 3 or 4 LEDs on another circuit will go out. It effects one circuit only, and always the same circuit, no matter which buckpuck either circuit is plugged into. When I decided to switch them up and run the 6 new ones on the other PS with the CWs, now 3 LEDs go out in one of those circuits. The 6 new LEDs will light fine, and all of the other LEDs light fine when the 6 new ones aren't plugged in. As soon as you plug in the new string, a few go out in another circuit. Any ideas?

Thanks.
Tim

What power supply are you using?

I'm using 2 potrans 24V 6.5A

Just wanted to make sure you didn't have too small of a power supply.

Sounds like you have a grounding issue with some of your LEDs. Check every screw to make sure they are not touching any pads or solder. Check with a multimeter (continuity) to know for sure. Eyeballs can make mistakes.

Thanks a lot for this guide evilc66. i have been on and off these forums for a while and it seems that the LED scene has picked up a lot. I have to downsize my 40B so i decided to make the plunge into LEDs.

My goal is to have ~12 x 10 x 12 viewing area and I bought 6x xr-e q5, and 6x rb xr-e, and i was going to go with a 4 x 3 array like ive seen in a few biocube 14 mods. i got a 10" x 7.5" heatsink. i probably should not have bought all this stuff without asking on the board..... but too late i was drunk

first is the cover going to be adequate? I really did not want to go over 12 led b/c i would need at least 2 more buckpucks to be able to color control. I was thinking about getting the meanwell led driver, but I had to set this up relatively soon (within the next month), so i can have it up and ready to go when i move. I do have lower light zoas and stuff i can put on the edges if there is some fall off

in terms of lighting, currently I have a 250w MH over my tank and some of the sps are ~ 10" directly below it and really enjoy/benefit the intense light. Would I need optics for this tank in order to keep this type of sps?

I saw if you need optics the spacing is 2.25-2.5" and 1.5" for 60 degree and 40 degree optics. What is the spacing with no optics (3"?)?

i bought 2 buckpucks to drive these. I was looking into the powersupplies and was slightly confused. I know it is ~3.7V per LED so i need a 24V power supply. Does it matter what the current rating is as long as it is over the # of buckpucks x 20%? Is there a maximum current input the buckpucks should see?

So if i got 1 power supply for 2x buckpucks, would it be wrong to choose a 24V 4.5A power supply (for cost and in case of upgrading)? Would the power supply always be drawing in 4.5A no matter if you are only using 2A? In terms of saving costs for lighting (one of the reasons to run LED right?!)would it make more sense to choose a 24v, 2.4A supply?

If i got 2 power supplies to have the lights come on a different times, a 2x 24V 1.2A supply would suffice?

thanks a lot for your help. i'll try to put up pictures of the construction and all that but it seems almost redundant now!

Sounds like you hit the nail on the head. For a tank that size, 4x3 is exactly what I would do. You have pretty much answered your questions already too. If all you will have on a single power supply is one Buckpuck, then a 1.2A 24v power supply will be more than adequate.

When you order your LEDs, add in some 60 degree optics. Your tank isn't really deep enough to warrant optics, but considering that you sps is under high lighting conditions, a little extra light might help. You don't need to use them on all LEDs, but maybe only on the back row where your sps will most likely be. Make sure you get Cree optics, as they are easy to remove and change. If you get 12 LEDs and 12 lenses, you should be able to hit the minimum order at ETG (talk to Anna Lopez). 2.5" spacing will be fine for everything you need to do for this setup.

Recently I have completed the upgrade to LED's for my BC29 and am more than pleased. Unfortunately it has left me jealous looking at how plain my 180 looks compariteively. Currently the 180 has 3 x 250 MH with actinics. So the question is how many LED's would I need and which optics to use. The fixture would be ceiling mounted so height above the tank can be adjusted as necessary. Thanks!!

wo0o woo! guess i did my hw (ive been reading so many LED threads).

Where is a good place to buy the optics separately in USA? I'm having trouble finding them online. i should have asked before i purchased anything, otherwise I would have bought everything from ETG ( i didnt realize their minimum order was... well minimal).

im a little worried that the Dealxtreme LEDs will take a long time to get here....

Thats going to be a lot of LEDs, especially if you are going to mount the fixture high off the water. It will require tight lenses, and tight spacing. What's the size of the tank?



There is a place called rapidled.com that has recently popped up, but I don't know if they carry anything but 40 degree lenses. Those are far too tight for what you need. Your next best option is Cutter Electronics in Australia. Their shipping rates and times are pretty reasonable considering where they are.

The tank is 6'x2'x2. I know it is going to be a lot of LED's but the cost of replacement bulbs and heat in the tank is killing me. Thanks Evil.

72x24x24 is a lot to light. How high do you think you will mount the fixture above the tank?

As just a rough guess without modeling everything up, you are going to need somewhere in the order of 320 LEDs. This will be on two 8.5"x62" heatsinks with 40x4 arrays on each with 1.5" spacing between the LEDs. All LEDs will have 40 degree lenses to raise the PAR. If the fixture was closer to the water, you could widen the spacing a little and reduce the number of LEDs per row by a few.

You would need 26 Meanwell ELN-60-48 drivers or 54 Buckpucks to drive the whole deal.

Be prepared to drop close to $4000 on this.

I figured it would be pricey. I may just stick with the MH and gut the actinics and replace with LED instead. What are your thoughts on keeping the MH, removing the actinics, getting some custom heatsinks to fit in the actinic housing?

Thats an option. One problem is spread. If the actinics are out towards the edges, the center of the tank doesn't get as much LED love.

Good point. My fixture has some removable sections dividing the halide fixures. Maybe some smaller heatsinks placed in between the halides and fabricate a cover to replace the dividers?

Providing you can cool the heatsinks well. MH heat in a fixture can get pretty high.

is 2.5" spacing side to side or both width and front to back? ? Should i space my leds a little further (3"?) front to back if my heat sink is 7.5" wide and covering 10" all together? Will this effect the coverage/color blend?

i got my heat sink and rb leds and buckpucks all today! just gotta find power supply and then... the long dealextreme wait.

Can i use the royal blue pcb as a template for drilling for the cool whites from dealextreme?

ps. your the best evil

Yes you can...

2.5" side to side and 3" front to back will work out pretty well.

Thanks again Evil....funny thing, they popped on. I'll have to keep an eye on them. I had others that wouldn't light at the begginng of the build, and resoldering/jiggling the wires fixed those, so maybe those were a grounding problem as you mentioned. These ones, I'm not so sure.
One more opinion question for you. What do you think of using the plastic diffuser sheets, like you see in drop ceilings to cover the flourescent bulbs, on top of the tank to help disperse the light? It's sort of like a bunch of tiny prisms.

Thanks again.

It would help with blending the light, but will reduce shimmer and intensity. Experiment with it, but I'd use it as a last resort.

Evil,

Did you ever get a chance to test the UV leds with your par meter ?

Cheers.

Evil,
Thanks again for the response. The clear plastic was just a thought.
Another problem I'm running into, is that I've had 3 buckbucks go bad on me so far. Do you think it could be the grounding problem, maybe intermitent, you mentioned before that could cause them to go bad prematurely? I have yet to test this.

Thanks again.

Tim

Can't use the PAR meter on these, but did briefly get the UV meter on it. The results were very low, but it's more likely because they are right on the borderline of UV and visible light, where the meter isn't as sensitive. Any number I get right now means nothing until I can effectively compare it to a MH setup or similar.


Could be. There have been issues with them dying on supposedly good setups for no real reason. Some problems come from heat issues (putting the drivers in an enclosed area). Shorting and grounding issues I'm sure will create problems. I would give Luxdrive a call and see if they have any insight.

Evil--awesome post, I joined just to be able to learn more by asking questions.

I've been trying to wrap my brain around how many led I would need for a 50 gal (36lx18dx19t)--and have clams/sps happy on the sand if needed.

These are the led I would like to use: Luxeon Rebel 3 star, 540 lumen cool white
combined with these at a 1.5:1 or 2:1 since I enjoy a 14-15k color: luxeon rebel 3 star blue or something like these:Luxeon 3 single emitter royal blue

The problems I seem to have is figuring how many I need, and how many/how large of power supplies to run them? I presume that puckbucks would be the way to go on these especially since I would like the ability to dim them. Also, would those be the most cost effective, or would you recommend going with single emitter stars instead?

Once again--awesome thread, I actually read all 40 pages of it and learned quite a bit.

Hmmm. Triple Rebels. Not usually the first choice, but not a bad one if set up right. They have a purpose, and it's usually for very high light applications. Just because you use more LEDs in the same area doesn't get away from the need for many stars for coverage. Thats where these get expensive. You can space them out a little more than an equivalent Cree setup with lenses for the same amount of light, but you will ultimately spend more.

The triple Rebel setups also work better in a mixed setup that isn't available from Luxeon Star. Using 2 white and 1 royal per star (12K) or 2 royals and 1 white (20K) gives you the absolute best color blending of any setup. You can't buy these though, but you can build them yourself, or have someone do it for you (like me).

For your size tank, I would do an array of 40 triple Rebel stars (10x4) with the LEDs on 3" centers. This is only for the custom color setup I listed above.

For a Cree array (probably easier), I would use an array of 60 LEDs (15x4) with 60 degree optics. Spacing would be 2" on center for LEDs in each row and 3" between rows.

For those of you that did retro-fits on biocubes, how long did you have to have the hood off your tank to make the mods? I've been trying to find an empty BC14 hood so that I didn't have to risk the amount of time the light is off my tank.....

here ya go

http://www.nanotuners.com/product_info.php?products_id=491

make the array first, there is plenty of info where you can just order the parts and do it. what i mean by do it is get the LEDs,, drill and tap the heat sink, install the LEds and solder them. after it should only be a couple of hours of work to four hours depending on skill level. even if you dont prep the work, you can do it entirely in one day. drilling and tapping is what takes the longest.

Cool Thanks for the link!

Evil,

Thanks for the fast reply, I'll probably just go with cree's--but I've now changed directions a little and picked up a 29 gal bc today for a good deal. I'll probably end up following the directions found here: CJerome dual led retro

However, I still have an interest in the triple rebel and found this website that sells them and parts--Triple Rebel parts and would like your opinion on how the boards vs buckpucks compare. Mind you I'm still leaning toward the previously linked set up.

Thanks again for the awesome info and willingness to help.

Quick question, I was looking at a wiring diagram here I don't understand why there are four sites to wire each LED. Picture looks dated, but helpful. I'm going to be building a setup similar to Cjerome's BC29g project. The only thing I want to do differently so far is to utilize the switches built into the top.

Evil,

I've been to Lowe's, HD and Ace, but the highest guage stranded wire i've seen is 24. At HD the highest they had was 16. Are these too thin? Any other commercial locations that sell 26 guage stranded?

The lower the wire gauge number the thicker the wire. I.E. 16 gauge is thicker and able to handle more current than the 24 gauge.

The stars are identicle to the ones on the Luxeon Star page, but they charge a lot more. The drivers are basic. It's the same design trasistor based linear driver that I have used in the past. Not super efficient, but gets the job done I guess. No dimming though.


The four pads are a pair of positive and a pair of negative. They are just there to make soldering a little easier in certain situations.



Right. For the short distance and the relatively low current used, 24AWG is plenty. I wouldn't use anything bigger than 18AWG as it's just a little too cumbersome to work with. Not to say you can't use it, but it's harder.

how many of the kaidomain UV leds would you recommend in a 16*10 area? (12" deep)

3 or 4 to start. I'm still trying to sit down and figure out what we truely need. 4 of those LEDs of that tank might not even be remotely close, or even the right wavelength.

yeah, i think i'm gonna pass on those for the time being. i can always add them later on w/ a seperate buckpuck since my main power supply will have more than enough amperage to accomodate them later

First off thanks evil for all the info you have provided us with, it is greatlly appreciated!
I just got done reading the entire thread and I think I'm set on what I want to do but I have a few questions. Here is my thoughts so far any advice will be appreciated:
tank is 48"x24"x24". 120 gallon but has a 4" euro brace around entire tank so opening is 40"x16"
plan is 140 xr-e 70 white 70 rb
drivers 13 meanwells eln 60 48 not sure if I need d or p model I plan to hook up to rkl unit to dim?
40 degree optics on most if not all LEDs to get enough light to sand for clams
questions are on my spacing of the lights I know you have said 2" side to side and 3" front to back but if I chosse to put optics on only certian LEDs is this still ok?
Heatsinks? I plan to get 2 8.5"x40" but do I leave a space between them
or bolt them together to create one heatsink?

You think this will work for my tank? Thanks

What was your plan for the LED layout?