8.5" will be more than enough. 40 degree optics cover a 16" area at 80% intensity levels at 27" distance.



You can use it turned all the way up, but you can't use it to dim.



Not sure what you are trying to do here. Could you explain what you are trying to set up?

Best way to power the fans is to get a seperate 12v power supply just for the fans.

" 40 degree optics cover a 16" area at 80% intensity levels at 27" distance."

Thank you. I'm sure you are planning on putting data like that in your write-up. That is VERY useful to those of us with no hands on experience yet.

Evil what I am doing is making basically 6 separate fixtures that will all be running and mounted at the same time and powered from the same PS if possible. Right now I have 2 corals that I want to get more light and one for the clam bed area. So for now I am basically going to supplement the lighting in my tank and I may only use 3 of the fixtures in the beginning. If I have a lot of cooling issues this summer I may use them all if that will let me keep the MH off.

Eventually, hopefully no to far away, I will build a complete lighting replacement with 60 or so LEDs for my 40b. This project will be learning for that one. Thanks, all of my electrical experience if with 480 three phase and 4160. This low voltage stuff is new to me.

Hi Evil/everyone,
I've read through most of this post, but after 15 or so pages, I'm starting to get crosseyed. I'm also still a little confused. I was planning on getting a 250w mh for my tank, but after exploring this thread, I think LEDs are the way to go. I have a 65g tank, which measures 36l x 18w x 24h. Can you provide a suggested array of LEDs, as well as a complete part list and quantites of what would be needed. I was looking at the Luxeon K2 stars. I actually work in the Hobby industry, and have access to power supplies and heatsinks that I can use. Would a 15v, 10 amp switching power supply work at all in this application? Thanks again for any help.

Tim

Hey evil, I read the thread trying to find where to find uv leds I found one spot where you said you can get them from kai, I went to there site but there is nothing(even searched all leds related items) Do you happen to have the link bookmarked

edit: Also looking at doing a bc29
8.5" x 18" heatsink
20 cw's
20 rb's
2 uv's
40 deg opt.'s
1 24v 6.5 amp ps
sound about right to you

For a tank like that, an array of 62 LEDs (16,15,16,15 arrangement with ~2" spacing) on a 36"x8.5" heatsink from HeatsinkUSA and 60 or 40 degree optics would work out well. You can use the K2s, but Crees tend to have a little more output and can be found a little cheaper. A 15v power supply isn't going to be enough. You will need a 24v power supply if you are going to run Buckpucks as drivers.




http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=1690

No need for that many LEDs in a BC29, and certainly no need for 40 degree optics unless you want to give your fish a tan (not really, but it's a lot of light). 24-28 LEDs (UV included) with 60 degree optics will be plenty in that tank.

Hey Evil,

Sorry to bother you, but i am about to start my bc 14 LED project and i want to get this right.
I've read so many threads that the info is all kind of swimming.
Here's the list:

(2)3023-D-E-1000P Wired BuckPuck, 1000mA Output, DC Powered w/ Pot --- from LEDSupply
(6) Cool White
(6) Royal Blue
8.5" x 5" Heatsink from HeatsinkUSA (unless a bigger one will fit; anybody tried it?
(2) 24V 2.2+ amp Power Supplies
silenx 80mmx15mm fan to cool the heatsink
A power supply for the fan(s)

Sound about right? Am I overlooking anything?

Would adding an 80 deg. optic to one of the LEDs to spotlight a show coral/clam be obtrusively bright in that one area?

Thankyou so much for all your help. This board is the stool.

d.

List looks good. Check out Waterproofs thread if you haven't already. Documents all the steps of him putting basically the same setup in his BC14.

I don't think you will need the lense for the clam. You will have over 200 PAR at the sandbed, and that should be adequate for almost any clam.

wow, you are really fast. thanks for the reply.

d.

[quote name='evilc66' date='May 13 2009, 08:11 AM' post='2250560']
For a tank like that, an array of 62 LEDs (16,15,16,15 arrangement with ~2" spacing) on a 36"x8.5" heatsink from HeatsinkUSA and 60 or 40 degree optics would work out well. You can use the K2s, but Crees tend to have a little more output and can be found a little cheaper. A 15v power supply isn't going to be enough. You will need a 24v power supply if you are going to run Buckpucks as drivers.




Evil,
Thanks for the info. Which Crees would you recommend? Part numbers or item numbers sure would help. The heatsink and power supply are easy enough to pick out, not so easy on the actual LEDs and optics. Thanks again for the help and fast reply.

Tim

you would want the Q5's and the royal blues. for that amount of LEDs, you meet the minimum order for ETG TECH. they seem to be cheaper ($5 to$6) and they also carry the optics too for $1 ea.
etg tech 1-310-202-6400. contact is Anna Lopez

^^^ This is a good place to go, and where I get all my stuff. Anna is the best. Make sure you specify XR-E series LEDs. The Q5 (this is the brightness bin) is XR-E only, but if you just specify royal blue, there are a bunch of different option. Get the Cree lenses. They fit the easiest, and are the cheapest.

hey evil i'm thinking about making my current tank 4" smaller, so the dims would be 24"x16"x12"
my idea might be to use LEDs as the main light( i use a 250w MH right now, might be too much on such a small hieght), but supplement with T-5HO actinics. I was thinking on using a 20"x8" heat sink, and about 15 white Cree XR-Es. Would this be enough light to support clams/sps/ect? I'm still a noob to leds, i'm reading though...
also a quick guess at costs would be great!
Thanks!

On a tank like that, you could run about 27 LEDs (9x3 at 2" spacing) for good coverage once you factor in optics. You could run without optics, but you would need to keep the fixture closer to the tank to keep performance up. With 60 degree optics, you could raise the fixture up to about 4-6" off the surface and still get good performance. You would be equivalent to a high end 150W MH at that point. If you wanted to go higher, and make it comparable to a 250W setup, you could go to 40 degree optics. With 30 LEDs, you can keep the spacing tight enough that you can go anywhere from no optics to 40 degree without changing anything. This will give you a lot of room to experiment with the different angles to see what fits best for the tank and it's inhabitants.

If you buy from ETG, you are looking at $162 for LEDs, and then $1 each for optics. For this setup, you would need 6 Buckpucks at $20 each, and then a power supply is another $14. You could pare things back a little if you didn't want the option of such high light levels. This would be a sweet setup though. Trimming things back to 24 LEDs (8x3) will take the drivers down to 4, but the spacing you would need for coverage wouldn't work too well for 40 degree optics.

hey evil,
have you heard any new news on the buckpucks. i'm still a little discouraged from my last experience with them. i have been testing my setup for the 37 gal and everything works fine as long as i do not put them in a project box. once i close the project box up, i lose a puck. i have switched the puck on different LED strings and its a different string every time. the buckpucks short out the PS. once the bad one is removed, the PS works again and the remaining pucks work with no problems as long as they are out of the box. anyways, i'm back down to 5 buckpucks out of 8 (not including the other 4 i already replaced) and i'm just waiting on the meanwells to come in from your group buy. i have concluded that heat does effect the buckpucks. do you think this is a new issue or has there always been a 50% chance of failure due to heat. i know WP has his in a project box and some others have as well with no problems but i see that they are only one to two buckpucks per box. i had 8. i should have just got a bigger box and slapped a couple fans on them. sorry for ranting, it still hurt my pocket (7 bad buckpucks)

Hi just a general question. When people state led spacing in inches does it refer the length from the light emitting diode to diode or edge of pcb to pcb?

I have not heard anything more about this situation. It's strange that Luxdrive claims no need for additional cooling, but yours fails in higher ambient temperatures (ie. in a box).



Diode center to diode center.

Thanks a ton!

thanks evil. the price is a little to steep for me as i'm just a teen without a job.

That tends to put a damper on things. Time to start saving those pennies!

Hi Evil/Deep,
Thanks again for the help. You recommended 62 LED's. I'm assuming that the rows of 16 would be the bright whites, and the rows of 15 would be the royal blues. How many buckpucks would I need for this arrangement? How many LED's does each drive? Is it right that I would use the 1000mAh ones for the whites, and the 700's for the blues?
If I went through ETG, are these already mounted on stars? Will this array of LED's be equal to a 250w MH?

Sorry for all of the questions, I'm trying to figure out everything I'm going to need before I start buying stuff. Thanks again for the help.

Tim

hope you can pick this up too. know your in demand... Noticed you have a 40 gallon breeder and Im planning when I get the cash to put together an led set for one. Can you provide a generic plan for a mix of soft and hard coral tank ? I've looked at several and cant firgure out equivalent lighting levels LED vs mH

Any help would be great ...

the rows would actually be alternating white with blues i.e.:
W b w b w b w b w b w b w b w b
b w b w b w b w b w b w b w b
w b w b w b w b w........
you get the idea. buckpucks can only handle a maximum of 6 LEDs and you could run both (whites and blues) at 1000 mA. you will need 11 buckpucks or 5 of the meanwell drivers. ETG will mount the leds for you on starbaords. you will need 2 power supplies. potrans 24v 6.5a will be just fine and only run $15 bucks ea at www.mpja.com. if you go with the meanwells, you dont need powersupplies for them as they run straight off the wall outlet (mains power/ ac power) but are more expensive. you might want to read up on the meanswells first as they take a little work to make them dimmable and Evil can tell you whick ones you need if you want to go with them (there are various versions). i don't know if this would equal 250 mh, Evil will jump in soon enough but i think you will need 40 degree optics (65gal right?). you are also going to need artic silver 5, a soldering iron (40watts or higher), 40/60 solder with a rosin core (not acid) wire 18 -20 gauge stranded not solid. you will also need size 4-40 screws with size 4 nylon washers for insulation. a 4-40 drill tap set to tap out the holes for the leds to screw them down to the heat sink. tools that you'll need Drill press, wire strippers, size #1 phillips screwdriver. that all i can really think off the top of my head, others will jump in. you could also go and read up Waterproof's thread as he listed everything too. enjoy and have fun doing it.

I wouldn't ever dream of putting buckpucks inside a box - they get warm when outside one, so inside one they'd fry! I basically just drilled a hole in my project box, put all the wires in but let the buckpucks stay on the outside.

Hi,

To get a better feeling about how the tank illumination would actually like in subject to number of led, gab to surface etc. i put together a small flash app which can be found here:
http://www.trashboard.de/wp-content/uploads/illumination.swf

Just play arround with the settings and get first idea about how it could look like.

Note: The app does not take into accout light lose over distance yet. I need to wrap my head arround a proper visualisation/calculation of light lose. I does not matter what units (inch,cm) you use since the calculation is relative. Just make sure that you don't mix units .

If you would like to see additional features,need help, find a bug feel free to contact me.
PS: sorry about my english, it has become pretty rusty during the years .

Hope this helps,
Nikolas

Awesome stuff - Also came in handy when I needed to calculate how many UV LEDs I need for my photosensitive PCB oven

Timdog, deepdvnarq has it pretty close. You could use 40 degree optics to get well into the 250W MH range, but you could also use 60 degrees if you wanted the sandbed to be lower light for some more sensitive corals.



44-47 LEDs should do it for that size tank, with no tighter than 60 degree optics. It will put you at a good 150W MH level.



It's starting to look more and more like these Buckpucks aren't that heat tollerant, even though they claim that no additional cooling is required.



Neat little app. One thing I would like to see is a top down view.

You guys or gals are awsome thanks for the help. I off to tinker toy land ... I'll provide pics when I get it going.

Please do

The tank was a forty gallon breeder 36"L x 18" W x 16" H , and the buck puck add says they drive Drive up to 18 1W LEDs & up to 6 3W LEDs. for 48 bulbs can I just buy 3-4 bucks or is there something I’m missing. I'll admit it ..I’m a novice with electronics...



http://www.ledsupply.com/03021-d-e-1000.php
3021-D-E-1000mA, BuckPuck Features:
Max Output Current: 1000mA
Max Input Voltage: 32VDC
Min Input Voltage: 5VDC
Simple 7-pin SIP connection, through-hole PCB mounted
Optional wire harness
Optional externally mounted pot. intensity control (0-100%)
External analog/digital intensity control (TTL compat.)
Drive up to 18 1W LEDs & up to 6 3W LEDs
Output short circuit protection up to 15 seconds
Output open circuit protection
Small form factor .78"x.78"x.43", 8.1grams
Built in regulated 5V reference/output to power local logic circuitry/µProcessor

I have a 6 gallon Eclipse and wanted to modify the hood. I was wondering why everyone uses blue and white leds. In physics lights primary colors are red green and blue. when mixing the same amount of red green and blue you get white. so if you use half blue and half white you would have mostly blue and the same amount of red and green. The reason the ocean is mostly blue light is because blue light can travel the furthest through water. Followed by green then red. So there is more green than red in the oceans spectrum. Why not use mostly blue then more green than red.

Here is my design for the hood mod.
(BG) (BR) (BG) (BR) (BG) (BRG)
(BRG) (BG) (BR) (BG) (BR) (BG)
I am planing on using a mean well LPV-35-36 Link with these leds.
Any suggestion on wiring or thoughts on changing to just blue and white would help thanks. Also would it be ok to use a heat sink out of an old laptop for this.

RGB LEDs would work perfectly in theory, you could dial in exactly the color temperature you wanted. Only issue is that most of the R&D money is currently going to high power white LEDs, and therefore the efficiency and output of white leds is years (light years? lol) ahead of most of the red/green emitters on the market. You would most likely need 1.5-2x as many of these as you would using a white/blue combination.

If you look at the spectrum output of a cool white LED, it will have a huge peak centered in the blue region and a much smaller, broader bump in the yellow-red region. Turns out this is pretty much exactly what coral and other marine photosynthetic organisms want, and if you make your own array of colored LEDs this will be the spectrum you will want to emulate anyways.

If all that is cool with you though I say go for it, however, I would recommend running all sections of all the LEDs and just dialing back the current of the green and red strings instead of selectively choosing which sections to have on and off. You will have less spotlighting and most likely higher overall efficiency that way.

hey land shark,
you have to be really careful using red in your arrays for coral. it can bleach them out. cptbjorn is right on the spectrum on the white LEDs. in the ocean, the deeper you go, the less spectrum of light you have. red, orange, and yellows are phased out pretty quickly. now red would be excellent for macro algea growth. that's why we aim for the higher Kelvins (10k+) in our lighting to benifit the corals and dampen algea growth. 6500 k is about noon day lighting.

If you want to run these LEDs at 1000mA (which you do), you can only run a max of 6 LEDs per driver. With 48 LEDs, you will need 8 drivers. There aren't too many ways around that. Running LEDs in parallel leads to all kinds of headaches that honestly, you want to avoid.

You guys are great...thanks again for your continued help. I'm getting married next week, so most of my loot is going towards that. After that, I definitely starting to stock up for the project. If anyone has any ideas on how to mount everything inside a wood canopy, I'm open to suggestions.

Ya i thought of doing that but my cousin ,who is an electrical engineer, says that leds are set to run at a certain current and that if you lowered the current the led wouldnt last nearly as long. I dont know if high power leds are different from your average led and can be set to different currents. btw would 12 of those leds be enough for six gallons or should i consider buying more? is that a good power supply/regulator for this set up? I think i am going to stick with the RGB leds. I like the thought of being able to create any spectrum of light i want.

i haven't started my thread yet mainly because i'm lazy! lol been busy with both jobs and have yet to upload the pics. i made a custom wood canopy for the led array and i'll put it up soon. yu could also pm me with your email address and i can send you the phots that i got.

Your cousin needs to hit the books again. ANY, and I mean any device, especially solid state devices, will last longer when not pushed to their limits. All devices have internal resistance, and that generates heat. As the current goes up, so does the heat. Heat is the enemy of any semiconductor. Any device can have a long and happy life if the heat is managed correctly, and the current passed through the device doesn't reach the breakdown limit.

Short story, any device will live longer if you pass less than the maximum current through it. With the heatsinks we use for these setups, we can easily manage the heat generated when run at 1A. Running at less current will result in considerably reduced light output, and penetration capability.

12 LEDs over 6 gallons will be more than enough, provided the dimensions of the tank aren't that strange. Ditch the idea of RGB LEDs. They just don't have the output to be effective, and the color spectrum that you percieve, won't be a lot of good to the corals. It's far more beneficial to use cool white LEDs that are heavy in blue (important for photosynthesis in corals), with a little red, and almost no green (useless for photosynthesis), with royal blue LEDs.

evilc66,

may i seek ur advice on LED? I have 18LEDs (half white half blue with 60degress optics) running in my modified NC 24gal hood. The guy who did the modification had them running at 750ma to be on the safer side of heat issues.. When measured with par meter device, the par is slightly over a hundred at 6inches off surface and only about 40 at the tank bottom(14 inches).
Few questions:
1) My hot pink digitata seems to be coloring up from a brown out frag within 2 weeks. Am i unduly concerned with the par reading or should i be aiming to drive the LED at maybe between 850-900ma if i am keen in keeping mostly monti digitata and capricornis ? My understanding is that sps does well in range of 200nm.
2)I went through 24 pages of your thread and have not seen low par reading like mine at 14inches off water surface even for other who are running at 750ma. May i know what is the potential problem and how i can get around this?

Thank you in advance!

Your PAR readings are really low for that kind of setup. At 6", you should be seeing 500-600 PAR at least. Time to start checking out the current from the drivers, and the voltage applied.

Thanks for the advice it really helped. My cousin knows what he is talking about. I probably just miss understood him. I want to order the stuff tonight. I'm having alot of trouble finding a good supplier for the leds. Here is a cree star I found. I'm not even sure if it's cool white. I couldn't find any good royal blues for around $6. I am trying too keep the price under $100. I want to order 6 royal blue and 6 cool white but i don't really know where to look for them. I think this is the power supply/regulater i want but i don't know if it will work for what i am trying to do. Sorry for all the trouble and I appreciate all the assistance.

Thank you for replying to my queries. I am not familiar with electrical stuff but i guess i will just have to get back to my friend who did the modification and let him know about this potential problem. At least now i have an indicative par number that i can bring forth for discussion.

cheers!

Talk to Anna Lopez at ETG Tech. She should be able to get you a good price on mounted Cree LEDs that will be much better quality than what you will find out of China. You will also be able to get the royal blues from there.

For flexibility, I would stick with Buckpucks to drive what you want. Get two (LED Supply is a good source), with a 24v power supply from MPJA. It will give you dimming control, and they are small. The unit you linked to is a constant voltage power supply, and not well suited for this application.



What PAR meter did you use to get the readings?

Thanks for the offer...PM sent. My Father and I built my canopy, so modifying mine if needed should be easy.

hi evilc66,

I am not sure about the brand of Par meter. It belongs to the chap who did the mod for me. However, he uses it for taking measurements of his other LED projects and mine seems to be the only one that is performing so poorly. He will investigate and see if he can get to the root of the problem and make the necessary rectifications.

thanks once again. I will update as soon as the problem is discovered and resolved.

hey evil,

i am looking to upgrade my aquapod 24 this summer, and this thread has struck my interest! i am still really confused even after reading 25 pages of info, so a little help would be appreciated.

i am looking to put an led setup inside the dimensions of the splashguard of an aquapod, to keep the factory looks. what parts and tools do i need for the upgrade? how many leds would i need for good coverage and intensity( lookibng to keep montis, birdsnest, crocea, maybe an acro)? i currently have a mixed lps/sps reef.

also, does anyone know of a good build thread for an pseudo instruction manual for the construction process? i am a complete noob to this, and if i am going to tackle the project, i will need a good guide to look at.

the thread looks great, wish i knew a little more about how to deal with led circuts, etc

any idea on the cost of this upgrade also? i would either do this ( if i can figure out the wiring and technical information ) or a 4x36 watt pc upgrade from nanocustoms. also noticed that nanocustoms sells what seems to be products for diy led systems (here is the link: ) and was wondering if these would be adequate. i did pick up that a uv led or two might not be a bad idea in terms of flourescence, so i would add that to the mix. i dont get the whole thing with the buckpucks, drivers, 700 or 1000 ma, and how to get the led wired properly . like i said i am totally new to thi concept

nanotuners link: http://www.nanotuners.com/index.php?cPath=...998dae7aa5be684

Take a look around at some of the threads in this forum. There are a couple of active BC29 and NC24 threads going on that will give you a good idea what to use.

The items that Nanotuners has right now isn't really adequate. UV is not used for fluorescence. It's used as a suppliment to the spectral output for sps and clam health. They arent' powerful enough by themselves to be seen with the main lights on.

sounds like 24 ish leds is the way to go on 2 meanwell drivers. i still need to take measurements of the area under my ap24 splashguard, but i would assume they are very similar to a bc29. what do you mount all of these leds to? what is a good heatsink? do you just wire the stars and screw them into the heatsink?

i will keep searching for a build thread, havent seen a thread yet, only users who are doing it with no thread post.

Best place for heatsinks: http://www.heatsinkusa.com