I think Evil was saying that you will get higher Par number with water in the tank.

You will. Those are numbers I would expect though.

Add some optics to that bad boy and watch your PAR soar.

Your array does look like it's missing a middle array, are you planning on adding a third one down the line?

I'm not adding another section. At least, that's not in the plan.

I am trying not to add optics as I don't want the focused light. I'm hoping to have a decent amount of output without them. After all, I'm going from 260 watts of PCs so this will be a major upgrade as it is.

I apologize, evil, for what has turned into a hijacking.

This thread is about the discussion and implementation of LEDs. I see no hijacking here

I would make a few changes to your plan.

First, 4 LEDs isn't going to be able to cover a 2.5g tank very well. You will need to at least double the number to get good coverage. I use 10 LEDs over a similar sized tank, and the coverage is adequate. This should still fit in the Aqualight Mini, but it will be tight.

If you decide to stick to 4 LEDs, the power supply you picked is too small. 16v is as low as you should go for 4 LEDs in series.

How do you determine how many LED's you need for a certain tank? I would like to set-up a 5.5 gallon that can hold a mixture of Soft and SPS corals.

Like I mentioned in the first post, The quantity of LEDs doesn't determine intensity. It is used for coverage. Basically you can think of it as a single LED lighting a small area. To cover a larger area you need more LEDs. To increase the brightness you need to increase the wattage/output of the LED, or add optics to concentrate the light to raise PAR. Consider that any size array will produce peak PAR levels similar to a 70W MH. What changes in the size of the array is how broad that peak PAR area is. The more LEDs you place in the array, the more consistent the PAR levels can be.

You can get light distribution like a PC or T5 setup with the right configuration, but with MH shimmer and PAR levels.



The number of LEDs needed is influenced by the light levels required. The more light, the tighter the spacing required by the optics used, and as a result will require more LEDs.

On a 5.5g, you can keep sps under an array without optics (approx. 70W equivalent) if you want. It will require the fewest number of LEDs. 16 LEDs (8x2)should do the trick on something like that, with a 50/50 mix of white and royal blue.

Evil this is amazing thank you. I was wondering what I would need if I wanted to replace the current lighting in my aquapod 12g to something that could handle higher end anemones or maybe a clam and some sps. How many LED's and how would you position them?

You can make a 150W equivalent array with 60 degree optics. You want to keep the spacing for each LED to about 2". I'm not sure how big the available area in the Aquapod hood is to suggest the number of LEDs, but I would expect something like 18 LEDs (6x3) with a 50/50 mix of cool white and royal blue.

Would these LEDs be place within the the covered area that the PC lights are enclosed in? I too am interested in doing something for my animals in my AP 12. They deserve the best, not that what they have is not the best that they deserve better .

Yup. It's an easy way to protect them.

This is totally a hijack, but it's been a long time since I've came back to these threads. I started w/ the LED nano projects years ago. I need LED nerds in Reefkeeping to talk with and here you are. I am dissapointed in the low PAR of your project... don't be discouraged, so was I. I'm on revision 5 and planning revision 6.


The new rebel's are the way to go. You can fit 3 on a single star and get an optic to focus them. Cost is HIGH though. But for a nano, it's affordable. ($5-8/LED depending on bin, $2/star, $4 for a driver to run 10+ LEDs and then a good 36Vdc supply will be over $25-75 depending on the watts you need)


PS. you need optics or you will have drastically lower PAR

stcs1 LED driver, $4 at digikey (runs 10 leds)- here's the RIGHT way to run a high powered LED cheap as possible. They are dimmable by a seperate pulse width modulator, so you could put one PWM to control ALL blues, and one to do all whites whites instead of one per power puck.

*The trick to this project, is that you need to buy a hot air rework gun to solder these surface mount chips. I have not been willing to pony up $175 for a real man's soldering/hot air station.



I would love to set someone on the right path. My 240G SPS has overwhelmed my reefing life and I have no interest in nano reefs now. It's far to expensive to light a big tank still. I also

My old revision 5 LED hood




This properly designed luxeon 3 unit (750mA) medium beam optics only gives me 100-200 PAR at 12" depth from my apogee PAR meter. I am very dissapointed, especially since it was $300, but a new Rebel LED based unit w/ more LEDs and better bins, should easily bust the 500 PAR barrier and finally beat out MH/T5 levels I get in my full reef.

A hot air rework station is only usefull in "reworking" SMT components, as in taking them off the board once they are already soldered, you cant solder with hot air (well ok, you can, but its REALLY difficult). To do it right, without damaging the LED device with excessive heat, all you really need is a variable temp soldering iron. Flux helps too, but thats more chemicals that could get in the tank.

oh yeah, if somebody wants to give me $200 for a rework gun, I can send you links to all the parts that must be bought and I'll build one! =)

My real goal here, is to get someone else to do this right as I don't have time. The new design will do everything the PFO solaris v2 does, but will be 3 times stronger. (the new PFO solaris only uses one rebel per star, and they are lower bins, this design is basically just adding one or two more per star to increase PAR in a small area).

One other use I've found for high powered LEDs is to add a shimmer effect to T5 only lighting setups. I am in process of going forward with that project for my pure 240G SPS T5 setup.

Well if someone knows how to solder these tiny rebels to a blank star, please do tell. It's not easy to solder something that is surface mount. I was not aware there was even a way to do it w/ a soldering iron? I though just tinning the surface, then laying the rebels onto the spot and blasting w/ hot air for 10 seconds while they suck into place was the way to go.

these things are tiny tiny, but the strongest and cheapest LED you can get at the moment, bins readily available up to 180 lumens / 3 Watts!


Can you solder something smaller then the tip of a pencil w/ not solder terms?

hey evil..

1st off, GREAT THREAD! A lot of very good information. I have a tank 36"Lx16"Wx11"H....what sort of LED array would I need to achieve the same PAR as a 150watt MH and a 250watt MH? Any information will be appreciated.

Thanks
Bradly

Zactos, good seeing you around here again. I know wee keep bumping into each other on CPF and MR. Shame you won't be able to get your array done any time soon. I may be able to help if you need some assistance on soldering and the like seeing as you are somewhat local.

If you want to try soldering these, there is a fairly easy way to do it. Do a search for "reflow skillet". Basic principle is that you use a non-stick skillet/frying pan set on low heat and place the tinned and fluxed (very important) assembly on the skillet and let it melt the solder. It's not ideal like a true reflow oven/toaster, but it gets the job done on the cheap.

Bradly88, for a 150W system, you would need 48 LEDs (16x3, ~2" spacing) with 60 degree optics. For a 250W array, something like 78 LEDs (20, 19, 20, 19, ~1.5" spacing) with 40 degree optics.

Ok, first things first, you don't need an expensive hot air rework station. There are three methods to do this

1:Butane Torch. Effective, ($15 @ lowes) very, but difficult to regulate heat, actually caused delamination in a star
2: Butane Hot Air attachment... much better to regulate heat, takes a little while to warm the board up.
3: Skillet method, see #1

In my soldering of Rebel LEDs (and I've done quite a few) I have found that while the torch tip will heat the star up fast, it could be bad because its stupid easy to get it too hot for the board. The hot air attachment is much much better, gets the board at a more 750 (just takes longer) without it actually going over it too fast. I've never used the skillet method, but it could also cause the same issues as with the torch.

There are a company on Iceland wich is a reseller for a swedish company, that sells the Luxeon brand of LEDs and they also sells the BuckPuck 3021 driver. You can find them on http://ihlutir.is/a and http://www.elfa.se

Hi guys
Not to high jack this thread,
I need to make a light for my new 5g tank. I am searching through the forum and I have made 2 plans below
I need your opinions. Which one do you prefer (without optics)

1 cool white surrounding with 3 royal blues like in this thread http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...80447&st=40

1 x constant current power supply 12.90€ (couldn't find a dimmable power supply in europe stores )
http://www.led-tech.de/en/LED-Controlling/...82_118_119.html
6 x Royal blue 495mW 5.79x6 34.74€
http://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Power-LEDs-...1013_49_85.html
2 x cool white CREE MC-E 752 lumen 24.9x2 49.80€
http://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Power-LEDs-...02_120_133.html

Total 97.44€

or

2 string like

WBWBWB
BWBWBW

2 x constant current power supply the same 12.90x2 24.80€
6 x Royal blue luxeon rebel 495mW the same 5.79x6 34.74€
6 x cool white luxeon rebel 180 lumen 6.99x6 41.94€
http://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Power-LEDs-...1411_49_85.html

Total 102.48€

Or any other suggestions for 5g setup. I don't need a lot of light "low light corals".

I need your help.
Thanks Guys.

Didn't know they had buckpucks in stock, I might call them up and see what they have.. It's probably going to be ALOT cheaper for me to order online tho.. They are usually 5-10x above online price on *everything*

Plan 2. MC-Es are a little impractical for a tank like that.

Thanks Evilc66. You're the best.

Hey I'm still quite lost at what things to get : \

For LEDs:
Do I go with the XR-E?

For Drivers:
I have no idea which one to pick from. I checked here http://www.ledsupply.com/buckpuck.php ,but there are so many to choose from.
I'm supposed to get the 1000mA ones right?
How do I tell how many LEDs each of those drivers can run at once?
What's AC and DC powered?

For Power Supply:
Where can I get these? Not sure what I would be looking for.
It depends on my driver right?

For Heatsink:
Is it better to have one big heatsink or multiple?
Do these work by having the LED's touching the heatsink?

And finally, would it be possible to make something so that you can move the LED's around if you don't like how you placed them? I really don't know how to explain, but I'm thinking of the heat sink cut into thin pieces that hold like 2 LEDs front and back and place something on the front and back of the heatsink so it could slide in a fixture?

Sorry I'm asking so many questions, but I'm pretty confused. If you don't get what I mean about the last question then just disregard it lol.

Thanks

Holy...

I got PAR numbers!

At 12" dry, 460

at 24" dry, 150

Siiiiiiiiiiick

When's that write-up coming?

Can I use Leds for actinic supplementation, I have a sunpod and want a very blue tank and still want the shimmer. So I was thinking about 6 royal blues to go with my sunpod on my 24 gallon aquapod.

Why not use a bluer bulb in the SunPod?

You could get away with 2 of them on a 24.

I posted the entire write up on RC but this is the final product with PAR readings.





Also, I KNOW that optics will increase the output. I'm not using them.

Looks good. Feel free to make a thread for your build here as well.

Hello great right up evil I have also been looking into led setups for numerous applications. I am mainly interested in taking advantage of the rebel leds. After reading through the posts I noticed no one mentioned http://www.asiansignals.com/Products/LED-Circuit-Boards.aspx Sorry If that doesn't post as link I am new to some of this. The company sells the pcb to mount 1 rebel alone or 1, 2, or 3 on a single pcb square. What makes them different than a star is the ease of connected the separate squares. They are connected in series very easily with a small bridge wire with only a soldering iron. This would make very concentrated arrays possible. The mounting of the rebel itself to the square is quite a bit more complicated. I found a post somewhere if I remember correctly said that the hot plate method for connecting the led to the square doesn't work that well because the squares use copper and gold i.e. they absorb heat differently than aluminum. I will try to locate again and post back. I am new to all of this so any help or corrections will be appreciated.
To give an example of a possible lighting configuration. The company sells a sheet consisting of 48 squares 6 across and 8 down if you broke them into strips of 6 squares something a buckpuck could power mattering how many volts used and then each individual square could have say a 6 degree lens one each rebel led. This give only 10mm or 20mm between each bulb. Something I would think would give good concentration of light at a great depth in a small package. Several parallel strips could be created with a power supply with enough amps.
Another example would be to use the squares that hold 3 rebel leds on a single square. There are a 100 squares per sheet. You could break off a strip and wire each of the leds in the first position as a single series say of one particular color and all of the leds in the second position on the board as another series and color and so on. Giving the possibility with the right controller of many different light settings.
I hope some of this helps the forum and I am quite honestly trying to figure it out myself.

Umm. why do you insist on trying to sell those over rated highly expensive tubes that won't last long. $200 a bulb, and I would need what, 5? HECK NO. I'll stick my HP LED setup thank you very much.

Asiansignals product have been discussed here before. For shallower tanks looking for a lot of light, it brings another option to the table. The major downfall to them is that lack of optic support. Even for the star based triple Rebels, there is only one lens option.

Looks like exotic aquarium got busted for doing the same crap he did over at RC. Sorry dude, can't sell your products like that.

Did you get this driver yet? Any idea how it performs?

Just showed up yesterday, although I'm not sure they sent me the right one. Still investigating.

Anyone try the endor rebel tri rgb emitter?They seem to be a good choice for getting all the colors
that make up white light.Also are the power requirements for one tri rgb considered as one LED or the
individual LEDs that make up the tri?Lastly , how would you go about wiring , I mean do you have to wire up
all the + and - on a single tri to a power supply to light the LED?
Yes I know , I am a total LED newb

Probably not powerful enough, and no real advantage.. RGB LEDs usually have a common cathode or anode, and then you need 3 extra wires to power up individual colors.

http://smgsllc.com/parts.html

Would you recommend using the pre-wired quad board? Instead of wiring each of the LED's in series, this basically does it parallel.

I'm really considering making an LED over my frag tank as a start. I'd like to start with one panel good enough for a 2 ft width. If it works out, make 2 more and mount it over my 180g that's 24" tall.

Evil great post, as the comments get longer and longer I can see there is some great info that would be great for some additions later: or if you could add some notes in the original post...

For example:



I only point this one out because I spent 30 minutes searching for it

That being said I was curious and I think I already know the answer but would love a second opinion.

I am planning on doing a 250W equivalent setup therefore I am going to use 40 degree optics, however I am going to set this up on a brand new tank as I want to look at growth rates...in two years i'll let everyone know LOL.

Since it will be a new tank I am going to add a dimmer to the setup to bring down the PAR levels for acclimation. I just wanted to know your opinion on spotlighting if a dimmer is brought in? I a pretty sure at a distance of 1.5" I shouldn't have a problem but let me know what you think.

Also just curious but do you typically build 10 light strings as you posted earlier made up of 4 white/5 blue/1 UV ?

Cheers and thanks again for a great post!

The RGB setup isn't of any use. High levels of red have been found to quickly bleach corals and can lead to algae issues, and green is just reflected off the coral and provides no photosynthetic benefit.

White and royal blue are the way to go.

Yep, and if you want to use Rebels, but find soldering difficult, hold on for a day or two, I'm about to release a vid on youtube showing how to do it with a simple $15 iron.

Never quite liked the icy blue look of some tanks I've seen.Thought maybe I could get more color variation
with the rgb tri.Wouldn't the mix bring about other colors like yellows for instance since the rgb forms white
light?I do know that reds will get filtered out at certain depths , but my tank is shallow and I recall while searching the web that green plants ( caulerpa? ) could benifit from it.I like the fact that the rebel stars are three LEDs in one which to me will be good for color blending.Reading the LED guide has proven very useful
though I am still confused about power requirements and whatnot.I want to do more of a warmer tone to a
DIY LED fixture , like how natural sun light has that yellow look to it.Found that I could solder my own rebel
and thought about a cool white , warm white and royal blue blend.The warm white could bring out the reds
and yellows and maybe help the green plants to grow without overpowering with reds and useless greens
in the rgb tri.Want to get this right before I take the plunge $$$

I believe I know the DIY iron your talking about.Can't wait for the vid.The iron I know of will really help a lot
with those rebels if one is inclined to solder your own.It is the poor mans reflow station
http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/07/how-to-...soldering-iron/

Evil, you give me hope that someday LEDs will be the standard for the majority of lighting applications. I've actually been reading through your guide in an attempt to find a more efficient way to light the house... nerdy much? Hahah.

Actually no, you can buy it at the local Lowes store all ready to be used. http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-19132-Mi...4722&sr=8-4 . You use the hot air attachment to actually heat up the star, melt the solder at the top of the board, and the LEDs will seat and your done.

Believe it or not, its pretty easy to maintain a pretty good temp if you use the hot air attachment, dunno about the quality of the tool, but its what was available to me, better quality exists if your aiming to to alot of soldering.

Hot air attachment aye.When I saw torch I immediately thought , fire and burnt LEDs.Need to hone my soldering skills , where's the vid

Those boards only run 4 rebels at a time, you would need some 8-9 boards depending on how many LEDs you wanted to put over the tank. For a 24" tank I'd probably recommend at least 30 LEDs probably closer to 34-36. That would be a lot of pre-wired boards just to get parallel circuits. Save yourself $200 and just run it in series, if a LED does go bad you can just replace it, you'd have to with the other boards anyways.