We took your advice on the base rock, and have gotten great reviews and it is starting to really move, we appreciate it, and Sallie Mae does too.

So we are thinking of taking the next logical step and grow seed for the base rock. We will use smaller rubble fragments to make up the package. 100% aquaculture, and pest free, We are coming up with a list on what to seed the rock with. So far we got:

stomatellas
dwarf ceriths
colonistas
mini stars
asterinas
microfauna from established tank
feather dusters
purple, pink, and green coralline
some corals - or is this a bad idea because it limits other coral selections people can make? Let me know....
maybe some sponges
tunicates? not sure on that one
possibly some plating coralline spread throughout the mix

what would you like to see? Any particular species one of the ones we listed?

Wow John, if you do that then I am most definitely buying rock from you the next time I set up a tank. I would love to see those inverts on Live Rock. As far as corals, maybe some different colored porites (I know Reef Goddess has several on her site) like yellows and purples, mushrooms, random zoanthids, different colored sponges and some tunicates definitely sound cool.

I think they all sound good and will def help to start a tank and cycle.

Sounds like a good idea!

well they won't be available for some time. We have some already growing with 3 different species of coralline and two species of dusters, but it has a while to go. Would like 1k gallons of grow out room, so quantities would be limited and small batch - just enough to seed.

Cool idea!!!



These dusters should spread on the rocks and they are Caribbean too.

got em, i do like them, I am pairing them with some white ones right now.

if i wernt getting free rock i would buy that

anybody want to see something in particular on a rock I didn't mention? How about a certain species I did mention?

I think that sounds like a really, really good idea, I totally support it.
I think it would be cook if you could do what GARF has done and try to get as many different species of coralline from around the world as possible and seed your growout rock with it.
Not totally sure, but I think you grind up the coralline and just sprinkle it in the system to have it seed all over.
It would be really cool if you could some of the more unique and unusual forms of coralline, like some of the blue colors, etc. I think a lot of ppl would be really interested in something like that.
Perhaps you could start a contest or promotion with the people here on NR and have ppl send small pcs of unusual growths or coralline from their systems for you to seed yours.
Have a contest for most unusual coralline, or give a discount to someone who sends something you don't already have.
It would be a fun way to get the whole community involved.

Maybe I'm missing something but why not just get regular LR?

If you can find some branching and/or yellow and blue coralline, that would be unique. Some livestock suggestions:

the "DIBS Turbo" (Turbo argyrostoma)
reef-safe bristle worms
columbellid snails
Trochus and Tectus snails
mysid shrimp?

Also, someone was reporting their lettuce nudibranchs breeding. I'm not sure how well they would do.



Because you get things like aiptasia and hydroids, and john's location will allow less hardy, yet beneficial, things to survive shipping.

You would be hard pressed to find rock like this ^^^, intentionally seeded with all of the above.
All the benefits of "wild" LR without the risks involved ( all of the possible unwanted hitchhikers ).

Plus its aquacultured, with all the extra "desirable" hitchers possibly finding its way to you. Cool stuff.

Sounds like an awesome idea John.

Ah gotcha! That's what I thought...

I know you like them, but I hate em. No rational reason why, I just don't like worms. I am not squeamish, just don't like em.

the "DIBS Turbo" (Turbo argyrostoma)

+1


I want to get a bunch of reproducing CUC members if possible. I don't think any out compete the dwarf cerith though, wonder how it will go.

I will probably add a ton of seed from the top guys around the industry, a shortcut I know but why not? I just won't name them, don't want any trademark problems.

I like the idea of collecting some of the better coralline over the net. I am looking into whether or not an aquaculture license allows me to take small brood samples from the ocean, if so there are some things I know where to find that are nice, and not in the hobby that I know of. I would want to do it 100% aquaculture, but I could live with small pieces of wild coralline. If not, I may ask a MLE diver to do it. Hobbyist samples would be cool, not sure how that would work though. I have the worst luck with shipments this time of year because it is almost 80 here and 20 where I am getting it from and the heat pack tends to burn up the product when it arrives. At 90 coralline goes south fast.


On a different product line, what about a macro algae rock seed? Super refugium rock?...

I have some yellow coraline growing out in my tank. It's just in small patches curently , but I am waiting to see if it really spreads. Should be interesting.

Oh and I remember reading on another thread no to long ago that you are not a big fan of yellow , Lakshwadeep? That was you right?

I hope it turns out to be primo, and spreads well. If that is the case, it might have an edge on a particular live rock. Don't get me wrong though, I like maricultured rock because it is wild looking, but this is a no pest no fuss sort of thing, and hopefull the product comes out nice. I think I might have to have separate systems to keep on of the coralline species from becoming dominate until I have enough of each coralline. As you can see I am still planning, but have the tanks, and the rock I got now is coloring up.

No, it was not me about not liking yellow coralline. I actually have yellow and blue (the blue may be something else) coralline, and I like it. I did take most of the coralline from my tanks former back wall when I moved it to view from three sides.

+1 to a macroalgae rock. I was going to suggest macros, but they might get eaten by all your snails.

yellow is sweet. How would one go about setting up a coralline contest? 2 categories one for plating and one for encrusting?

What about sponges?

What about this for an idea:

We get a thread going where people post pictures of successful encrusting sponges and coralline and the like. People here say "yes" or "no" I send out some small pieces of rock rubble to the "yes" people. The yes people put the rubble next to the target, grow it, and then send it back. I QT it, and if it comes out, (word of caution I am a QT Nazi), I send out a refund for the cost to you for shipping the piece. 6 months later I have a flat rate box of seed rock from everybody waiting for you, just pay the return $8.95 for shipping, I buy the rock. How does that sound? You can let it go on if you want for longer - up to you.



those snails are complex macro algae safe. (All macro algae but sprouting filamentous algae). You got to see how many snails I got in my newest macro tank.

Are you doing a green house kind of set up so that you won't need lights for the rock culturing tubs?

I was thinking about it. Right now I have the room to do it in the warehouse. I like that better because I plan to feed a ton of plankton, and I need it near a refrigerator. I am looking at 2 acres farm land for aquaculture, but most for macro algae. The first batch at least will be grown indoors. I think... Free light, and geothermal cooling and heating sound pretty good though.

growing all feather dusters out now, probably later though. I can get you pretty much anything you would want for a tank at some rock bottom prices too, but I kind of want to stay in the niche I am in, and dusters aren't really cleaners, they should be fed.

started a contest- another thread. let me know what you think.

Hey John what size rocks are you talking about sending to people to grow their coralline on? I have some really pretty purple plating coralline algae, but I don't have room for a ginormous chunk of rock in there. I assume you mean around golf ball size rock? I would be open to seeding some rock for you.


Oh and +1 to the Super Refugium Rock, that sounds sooo sweet!!! John, you think up the coolest ideas!

Thanks DDR! - golf ball is what I am thinking, breaking out the hammer now. (Rubble to our supplier is nano tank sized pieces, this would be smaller).

Ok good, I just posted a pic in your thread.

so do you think that we should keep a macro line and a encrusting/coralline things line, or mix in some macro with the liverock? (Or have 3 which is my guess where this will go)

Live Rock, Macro Refugium Rock, Mixed Rock. 3 Lines like ya said

better go buy a farm

Maybe you could have varying levels of encrustation, since people will want those pieces to be at the top of any rock structures.

I'm back from Christmas, kind of. Sounds like a good idea but consider what would get damaged in shipping with the weight of the rocks. Some of the suggestions don't sound like something that would ship well on LR unless it was rubble.

Honestly for me, nice coraline on rock would be a plus above everything else.
If a rock already has something growing on it like sponge/coral it will only limit the end user in terms on how it can be placed (someone wouldnt want to place a rock with coral upside down, then the coral would die and defeat the whole purpose).

I think really nice coraline covered rocks, bare would be best. If you want to get more advanced and give the buyer options, you can offerpackages to add sponges/turnicates/what ever and send them these things individually for manual placement in the same shippment. All they'll need to do is use some glue and stick them on the rock before placement. Also survival will be higher.

yeah it would be small batch rubble pieces. Individually packaged. Some of the sponges for sure would have problems, but coralline and macro would make it. Maybe sponges are a bad idea, good point Sue. I was going to be super strict though about hardiness of the sponges. I have worked with a few species that wouldn't die easily. Since the rock will be premium, and we want it to stay that way we are going to pad it with water bags on all sides maybe. I don't think this will be a hurdle that can't be overcome, I have seen some ownderful rock shipped around.



Good points, Sue had similar concerns. I agree. Dusters stay in though! They are tough enough. The rocks would be smaller and have reproducing organisms to seed and then move around the tank spreading the life on the rock. Because of the size of these rocks, (baseball-softball), not sure if they would be a part of the aquascape to any real degree, except for in a pico-reef.

How about a refugium pack also. rubble with stuff growing on it, some live sand, chaeto or ulva algae. an little cuc critters included.

I honestly think this is a great plan. I bought some live rock that looks preety much the way you want it to, and it's great. I have purple and red ecrusting coralline, very prolific purple plateing coralline, possibly even little batches of black coralline (I thought it was a sponge, but looking again...) I think you could make a killing with stuff like this. Having different "lines" of live ricj would also be sweet, I could use something for a refugium I'm planning...

John bought the farm?

Oh noes, sowwy to hear this......

Please send Macro ILO flowers.

whats up with this, it sounds awesome, have you collected a lot of specimens? any worms on the list, maybe spaghetti or blood worms, how many varieties of pods have you gathered so far?

Yes. Yes yes yes.

I acutally just bought some rock from an online source that aquacultures and the rocks have TONS of life - macros, porites, hitchers, etc. The rocks are going in my fuge. If you could come up with some good fuge rock with a good mix of algaes (ulva/chaeto) I think it would be a great idea! Diversity is key.

Time to start brushing off the soft cycle manual.

mariculture or aquaculture? Bit different, mariculture is something we are also looking into for long term plans, but the aquaculture project never gathered any steam. Only 2 people interested in it. In my tanks I have quite a bunch of different pods, I think like 8 or 9 at least but haven't counted. I like the feather dusters too, I am locatiing samples right now to grow out some rock in my tank, just something fun. Located like 14 different species of coralline I like, teal, yellow, red, pink, green, purple etc.. Will start growing it all at some time. I have a few sponges that work too, my sponge tank was a mild success, I did get to find some that work, but most didn't. 4 tunicates too I think, the aquacultured rock is will be all hand selected animals, but I would like my hand at some mariculture too in the future.