Yeah, I've been watching NatGeo channel and Discovery channel a bunch and have been wondering if it's at all possible to make a pressurized tank to simulate deep water environments. Is it possible? If so, would it need to be totally sealed? If it does, will water evap not exist since there's no place for the water to go?
How can you pressurize the tank? What wiil it need to be made of? These are just a few questions running through my head. I'm going to ask my biology teacher tomorrow also. Thanks!
Also, I'm going to bed, so I'll reply to any questions tomorrow noonish. Thanks!
Full Version: Quick couple questions about deep water...
I would say that's a no-go.
even if you found a way around it, how would you get livestock to it, without exposing them to signifigant pressure changes?
even if you found a way around it, how would you get livestock to it, without exposing them to signifigant pressure changes?
not even that, feeding would seem to be a chore
water changes?
Pressurizer?
Glass thickness?
Metal Bracing?
noooot for me.
Pressurizer?
Glass thickness?
Metal Bracing?
noooot for me.
+1 to abs-to-go above me...
of course, this would be in reference to creatures from the lower disphotic to the aphotic zone - past 3-400 ft deep.
you will be facing several different problems in your search to maintain deep water fish in captivity. one huge problem is how you would acquire specimens without killing them. i have personally viewed animals coming up from only 100 ft and without being extremely extremely careful, decompression would kill them within minutes. even if you had access to a vessel that had the capability of reaching these creatures, you have to realize that many of these animals are rare to even scientific researchers! thus, many of the animals have special needs or captive care requirements that are unknown - perhaps unique behaviors or feeding methods that must be catered to. dissolved oxygen levels must also be studied to determine what the optimal level is, and circulation must be achieved without strong currents.
another problem is pressure in the captive enclosure, as you have mentioned. off the top of my head, i believe that monterey aquarium has kept some deep water animals alive as short lived displays, but the animals they chose were definately not from the aphotic zone, and thus did not require pressurized water containers.
the last issue, which is the simplest, is temperature - deep water habitats are characterized by around 40 degree F or less water temperatures, which will require a very large chiller.
again, this is all in reference to some of the more rare species of deep water fish, and due to your reference to pressure, i am assuming that was what your post was inquiring about. however, if your curiousity lies in biolumiscence, there are some occasionally available species of fish in the aquarium trade that you might want to look into with less stringent requirements - members of the family Anamolopidae, or flashlight fish and Monocentrus japonicus, or the pinecone fish both have biolumiscent organs that can be viewed quite easily in captivity. although i have never personally seen it in the aquarium industry, i have encountered lantern fish (family Myctophidae) closer to the water surface during the night when they undergo rhythmic vertical migrations and where capturing them without worrying about decompression would be possible.
if you happen to follow through with this project, please keep us updated. if you are on the west coast, and need to contact any deep sea researchers, i may be able to help. good luck!
of course, this would be in reference to creatures from the lower disphotic to the aphotic zone - past 3-400 ft deep.
you will be facing several different problems in your search to maintain deep water fish in captivity. one huge problem is how you would acquire specimens without killing them. i have personally viewed animals coming up from only 100 ft and without being extremely extremely careful, decompression would kill them within minutes. even if you had access to a vessel that had the capability of reaching these creatures, you have to realize that many of these animals are rare to even scientific researchers! thus, many of the animals have special needs or captive care requirements that are unknown - perhaps unique behaviors or feeding methods that must be catered to. dissolved oxygen levels must also be studied to determine what the optimal level is, and circulation must be achieved without strong currents.
another problem is pressure in the captive enclosure, as you have mentioned. off the top of my head, i believe that monterey aquarium has kept some deep water animals alive as short lived displays, but the animals they chose were definately not from the aphotic zone, and thus did not require pressurized water containers.
the last issue, which is the simplest, is temperature - deep water habitats are characterized by around 40 degree F or less water temperatures, which will require a very large chiller.
again, this is all in reference to some of the more rare species of deep water fish, and due to your reference to pressure, i am assuming that was what your post was inquiring about. however, if your curiousity lies in biolumiscence, there are some occasionally available species of fish in the aquarium trade that you might want to look into with less stringent requirements - members of the family Anamolopidae, or flashlight fish and Monocentrus japonicus, or the pinecone fish both have biolumiscent organs that can be viewed quite easily in captivity. although i have never personally seen it in the aquarium industry, i have encountered lantern fish (family Myctophidae) closer to the water surface during the night when they undergo rhythmic vertical migrations and where capturing them without worrying about decompression would be possible.
if you happen to follow through with this project, please keep us updated. if you are on the west coast, and need to contact any deep sea researchers, i may be able to help. good luck!
QUOTE (supraeli @ Oct 3 2008, 12:33 AM) 
+1 to abs-to-go above me...
of course, this would be in reference to creatures from the lower disphotic to the aphotic zone - past 3-400 ft deep.
you will be facing several different problems in your search to maintain deep water fish in captivity. one huge problem is how you would acquire specimens without killing them. i have personally viewed animals coming up from only 100 ft and without being extremely extremely careful, decompression would kill them within minutes. even if you had access to a vessel that had the capability of reaching these creatures, you have to realize that many of these animals are rare to even scientific researchers! thus, many of the animals have special needs or captive care requirements that are unknown - perhaps unique behaviors or feeding methods that must be catered to. dissolved oxygen levels must also be studied to determine what the optimal level is, and circulation must be achieved without strong currents.
another problem is pressure in the captive enclosure, as you have mentioned. off the top of my head, i believe that monterey aquarium has kept some deep water animals alive as short lived displays, but the animals they chose were definately not from the aphotic zone, and thus did not require pressurized water containers.
the last issue, which is the simplest, is temperature - deep water habitats are characterized by around 40 degree F or less water temperatures, which will require a very large chiller.
again, this is all in reference to some of the more rare species of deep water fish, and due to your reference to pressure, i am assuming that was what your post was inquiring about. however, if your curiousity lies in biolumiscence, there are some occasionally available species of fish in the aquarium trade that you might want to look into with less stringent requirements - members of the family Anamolopidae, or flashlight fish and Monocentrus japonicus, or the pinecone fish both have biolumiscent organs that can be viewed quite easily in captivity. although i have never personally seen it in the aquarium industry, i have encountered lantern fish (family Myctophidae) closer to the water surface during the night when they undergo rhythmic vertical migrations and where capturing them without worrying about decompression would be possible.
if you happen to follow through with this project, please keep us updated. if you are on the west coast, and need to contact any deep sea researchers, i may be able to help. good luck!
of course, this would be in reference to creatures from the lower disphotic to the aphotic zone - past 3-400 ft deep.
you will be facing several different problems in your search to maintain deep water fish in captivity. one huge problem is how you would acquire specimens without killing them. i have personally viewed animals coming up from only 100 ft and without being extremely extremely careful, decompression would kill them within minutes. even if you had access to a vessel that had the capability of reaching these creatures, you have to realize that many of these animals are rare to even scientific researchers! thus, many of the animals have special needs or captive care requirements that are unknown - perhaps unique behaviors or feeding methods that must be catered to. dissolved oxygen levels must also be studied to determine what the optimal level is, and circulation must be achieved without strong currents.
another problem is pressure in the captive enclosure, as you have mentioned. off the top of my head, i believe that monterey aquarium has kept some deep water animals alive as short lived displays, but the animals they chose were definately not from the aphotic zone, and thus did not require pressurized water containers.
the last issue, which is the simplest, is temperature - deep water habitats are characterized by around 40 degree F or less water temperatures, which will require a very large chiller.
again, this is all in reference to some of the more rare species of deep water fish, and due to your reference to pressure, i am assuming that was what your post was inquiring about. however, if your curiousity lies in biolumiscence, there are some occasionally available species of fish in the aquarium trade that you might want to look into with less stringent requirements - members of the family Anamolopidae, or flashlight fish and Monocentrus japonicus, or the pinecone fish both have biolumiscent organs that can be viewed quite easily in captivity. although i have never personally seen it in the aquarium industry, i have encountered lantern fish (family Myctophidae) closer to the water surface during the night when they undergo rhythmic vertical migrations and where capturing them without worrying about decompression would be possible.
if you happen to follow through with this project, please keep us updated. if you are on the west coast, and need to contact any deep sea researchers, i may be able to help. good luck!
Wow, thanks for all the info! I'm going to save that to MS Word! lol And most of that made me lose all hope in this project except for the bioluminescence part. I wasn't wondering about fish, but what about very small inverts kinda like jelly fish, but different. Pretty much, what about ctenophores? Do you think it's possible to keep them in captivity in a small tank like a 54g corner? I've seen them on the surface in the bay when they come in sometimes, so I don't think they'd need to be pressurized, but kept cool is a must. If possible, keep a few small ctenophores in a 54g corner with 1/4 hp chiller and a fan on top, no normal lighting except moon lighting or actinics or combo of the 2, mud/sand substrate, coral[s] maybe but probably not, and live plankton? I'd like to do this as a cool/learning project so i can hopefully get into the HSU marine biology course next year. Maybe like recommendation??? Anyhoo, thanks for the info stuff and I'll be looking around for a 1/4 hp chiller for cheap, maybe refurbished, and a 54g corner.
-Kenny
QUOTE (Mynameskenny19 @ Oct 3 2008, 10:26 PM)
Wow, thanks for all the info! I'm going to save that to MS Word! lol And most of that made me lose all hope in this project except for the bioluminescence part. I wasn't wondering about fish, but what about very small inverts kinda like jelly fish, but different. Pretty much, what about ctenophores? Do you think it's possible to keep them in captivity in a small tank like a 54g corner? I've seen them on the surface in the bay when they come in sometimes, so I don't think they'd need to be pressurized, but kept cool is a must. If possible, keep a few small ctenophores in a 54g corner with 1/4 hp chiller and a fan on top, no normal lighting except moon lighting or actinics or combo of the 2, mud/sand substrate, coral[s] maybe but probably not, and live plankton? I'd like to do this as a cool/learning project so i can hopefully get into the HSU marine biology course next year. Maybe like recommendation??? Anyhoo, thanks for the info stuff and I'll be looking around for a 1/4 hp chiller for cheap, maybe refurbished, and a 54g corner.
-Kenny
-Kenny
hi kenny,
ah yes, i actually thought about the ctenophores when i mentioned monterey aquarium. they had a beautiful ctenophore display a few years ago, so it is very possible to maintain them in captivity. in my opinion, pressure is not going to be an issue at all when considering the captive management of any gelatinous plankton, but instead the manner in which to preserve their delicate bodies. After all, pressure is only an issue when gaseous cavities are found in an organisms body, and ctenophores as well as cnidarians lack such structures.
again, capture of the specimens may prove to be difficult. if you are going to be collecting from water surfaces, you will probably have a much easier time than trying to obtain deep water species. nets, of course, will be out of the question, and trolling with a collection cup will also reduce any captured ctenophores to jelly-o.
this comes to the larger question of keeping the ctenophores from being destroyed by circulation and filtration pumps. the cheapest and easiest way that comes to my mind is sponge filter, but the biggest thing you are going to want is to maintain the ctenophores in the water column without having them impact against the substrate or tank walls. you could research a method to copy monterey aquarium's kreisel method of flow and im sure something could be created with some innovative thinking.
do a search on jellyfish in captivity and you will come up with many methods that you can integrate into your system! again, good luck, and remember to post pics!
So, I've been looking around and studying the bay and have found out that Bolinopsis vitrea lives in the bay and can bioluminesce which I think would be pretty cool. The max size on this lil guy is around 3 - 4 cm and they eat mainly copepods and other types of zooplankton. A minimum tank requirement is around 5 gallons, so I'm thinking about switching my FW 20g long into a 10g since I barely have anything in it right now and use that as the tank instead of buying a 54g corner. A Koralia Nano is enough water movement for the ctenophore and for filtration, I would need another small HOB with a sponge on the intake so that the lil guy won't get sucked up into the intake tube. If that were to happen, all would be fine as they can regenerate 75% of their body very rapidly including their vital organs. Feeding would be easy, just get a cup or 2 of bay water and pour it into the tank once every 4 days or so. Lighting doesn't really apply to this tank, but you can use a UV light to stimulate them to luminesce if you wanted to. Supposed to be kept in a species only tank and can be kept with others. A report from earlier this year said that divers in the UK have found around 600 individuals in a cubic meter of water!!! That's a LOT!!! Anyhow, here's how I'm going to setup the tank:
20g long with 12" UV light on timer for 4 hours a day
2 inch sand bed
3 Bolinopsis vitrea
20g of bay water
1 Koralia Nano
10g HOB filter with sponge on intake tube
1 measuring cup for feeding
Let me know what you think. I'll post pics in about 2 weeks when I get all the stuff I need.
Then I'll collect sand and water and let sit till cycling is done and params are good.
-Kenny
20g long with 12" UV light on timer for 4 hours a day
2 inch sand bed
3 Bolinopsis vitrea
20g of bay water
1 Koralia Nano
10g HOB filter with sponge on intake tube
1 measuring cup for feeding
Let me know what you think. I'll post pics in about 2 weeks when I get all the stuff I need.
Then I'll collect sand and water and let sit till cycling is done and params are good.
-Kenny
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