Really impressed, I like what you've done. You've captured some some really cool images. Did you know that the turbans' shells are sometimes heavily worn like that because they often live over a hundred years? Makes you kind of want to take good care of them, huh? Don't harsh snailfish too much, I had one long ago, and while it was initially shy (so much so that I didn't even realize I still had it for a while), it became so tame that it begged for food quite unashamedly whenever I approached the tank. Why haven't you tried Metridium yet (they are awesome)? Or have you? Looking forward to the orange-stripe pics!

I dont think there are many others with coldwater systems but I have not really looked. I know Steve Weast has an awesome one. Do you only have the coldwater or do you have a reef tank as well?
Nice new pics!

Cool. Can't wait to see your tank!



That's really cool about the turbans! I had no idea. Kind of ridiculous for a snail to live so long - I'll make sure to give them extra good care. It also makes me think that they could be depleted really easily if more people get into collecting for their tanks. If they live that long they probably don't grow very quickly or reproduce very often. Interesting.

I'm glad the snailfish worked out for you. I see them pretty often, but I've never taken one after that first time. Maybe I'll try one out again - they are really cool!

I have a couple metridiums in the top tank, but they've never been happy. It's not like they're dying, but they always just stay sort of half opened up. They don't look at all like they're supposed to. I'm not sure what species they are. They were pretty big when I got them, so I think they're M. fimbriatum, but they've never opened up in my tank like they were when I collected them. I don't know what it is - Too much flow? not enough flow? Food too big? (I feed them mysis) They do eat (I think, I mean, I think they'd be dead by now if they didn't). They survive in polluted bays, occasional brackish water, they're pretty tough in the wild, you'd think they'd be the perfect candidates for a fishtank.

I'll get some pics of the orange stripes soon. They're really pretty, and look like they'll make it. They've all shown at least a little tentacle, so they should still be able to eat, and they look like they're healing up, so I'm confident they'll recover.



Steve actually sold/donated his tank to someone else, who keeps it at a fishstore in SE portland, so I got to go see it in person! It was really cool (strawberry anemones everywhere!). Unfortunately, since it's not actually the store's tank, they couldn't sell me anything out of it. I'll have to find strawberries elsewhere. :sigh:

-Jamie

Edit: Oh, and I have had a tropical tank for a couple years, but I'm in the process of taking it down. Just going to focus on coldwater for a while. I may set up a tropical pico in the future though.

Jamie, the one Metridium I had acted the same way, always looking sad and frumpy. The more I fed it (and the smaller the food) the happier it was. The get a near-constant barage of food in the wild; when I started feeding cyclopeeze and frozen mini-krill every day, it started to open up more. Then I went on vacation and it died, so who knows.

Interesting. yeah, I've read they don't have a great track record in aquariums. I just need to get a live zooplankton drip going! lol. Maybe if I had a tank culturing phytoplankton that would drip into a tank culturing zooplankton (phyto would be food for the zoo) that would drip into the main tank, it would work. That would be hard to keep going!

wow while its not as colorful as a regular reef tank, i am fascinated by your tank because it is truly amazing. and it mimics the wild environment. afterall it looks SO REAL... love it


keep up the good work.. imma subscribe to this and come back to check up on you..

surprise us wt more pics

I'd like some pictures of the snailfish, if you have any.

Sorry, the snailfish was in one of the very first renditions of my coldwater tank, before I was any good at photography. I only have maybe three pictures of that tank, none of which are of the snailfish, and all of which are on my other computer, which is currently broken. If I do get another though, believe me, you will get lots of pics. This is sort of what the one I had looked like, but mine was a more gray color: http://week.divebums.com/2007/Dec17-2007/s...tracy-clark.jpg
(hopefully that link will work)

-Jamie

it didnt.

hmmm. Well, here's the website, just scroll down, it's second from the bottom.

http://week.divebums.com/2007/Dec17-2007/index.html

That work?

Wow! Almost every pic is amazing! That website was truly a treat, thanks.

If I may say so, I've had some success with Metridium. They do close up. Several times a day, in fact. You will see it if you observe them long enough in the wild. But, if they are not open and feeding at least half of the time, they are either irritated or "waiting out" a prolonged absence of food (like most anemones and corals, it is taking an unnecessary risk to expand and expose themselves more fully to their surroundings without some payoff). Food or the scent of food isn't always required to induce feeding behavior, just conditions that present the likelihood of a coming feeding (i.e. the right type of current). I'm not sure why, but they really like waterflow produced by airstones (but not being in the path of the bubbles), particularly if they are hanging at the surface getting hit by the surface water as it is pushed away by the vertical column of rising bubbles (hope that made sense). Another trick I know of won't always open them up, but will keep them open longer-- keep a small bucket on hand, and every day or so use it to dump water into random (especially more stagnant) areas to kind of mess things up a bit (especially the detritus, if not the microfauna associated with it). Maybe they think the tides are coming back in?

Orange-stripe pics?

If you liked that site, I bet you'll like this one too. Tons of excellent coldwater pics (and a few tropical ones too). If you click the "images by subject" bar on the left, and click the link for california hydrocoral, there are some fantastic "reef-scape" pictures.

I got some oyster eggs, so we'll see if that gets them to open up fully. It's not like they're entirely closed, their tentacles are still out, they just stay shrunken down all the time. I'll get some pics so you can see what I mean. Maybe they just haven't settled in, this tank hasn't been up for very long yet, maybe they'll get happier as time goes on. If they like the random "bucket flow" you described, I wonder if maybe they'd be happier in the surge part of the system. If the oyster eggs don't help, maybe I'll move them down there. It does have some lower flow areas that are still turbulent. If that still doesn't work, I'll try the airstone.

Orange stripe pics soon! Hopefully tomorrow, but no guarantees.

-Jamie

Edit: oops, forgot to link the site, hehe. Here it is: http://www.coldwaterimages.com/

Orange stripe pics! Finally!

Before oyster eggs:


After oyster eggs:


If you're getting tired of these urchin macros let me know:


Anemone (another possible contest entry, though I'm too stupid to figure out how to empty my photos folder, and can't upload anything new ) :


The turbans have been doing a fantastic job cleaning up all the unattractive hair algae, and now you can see the pretty red ones! coralline on the left and an unidentified macro on the right:


I tried squirting oyster eggs directly onto the metridiums, and I think the liked that, the both opened a little more than usual. I also reduced the light a lot, which I think they might also like. I'll find out soon enough!

-Jamie

Yesterday I decided to move the metridiums down to the surge tank, and they already look a lot better. They are both located in areas of pretty low, but still random, flow. I was a little worried about they nudibranchs munching them in the top tank, and thought maybe the surge would help them. It looks like it has!

I also changed the lighting somewhat. the old lights were just in place till I built hoods for the lights I had in mind. I just took my tropical tank down, and the refugium light happened to be the perfect size for the bottom coldwater tank. I just screwed in a couple wooden "bars" on either side for it to rest on. I might make a thin wood casing around it, just for aesthetic reasons, but I'm a little worried about the fire hazard, and it doesn't look to bad now, so I don't know. I'll post a pic and see what you guys think. The lighting for the top tank will be two or three fluorescent "under the cabinet" lights. I found them at home depot, and since spectrum doesn't matter, I thought they'd work great. I haven't built the hood for the top part yet, but hopefully I'll get around to doing that within the next few days.


I'll be back with photos soon!

-Jamie

Well, now that photobucket finally decided to let me upload some photos, here is the full system "shot." In an effort to give a sense of what it actually looks like, I'm putting the fts of the top tank above the fts of the bottom tank. We'll see if that works.




And, i found a new anemone to be obsessed with! Meet Anthopleura artemisia (this link better work):

http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_quer...leura+artemisia

I've actually seen these before, but never the orange kind, I didn't know they even came in anything but gray-green till I found that website. And so the search begins for A. artemisia.

-Jamie

New tank is very nice!!

Looks great Jamie! And that Anthopleura artemisia is purdy - hope you find some!

Thanks dshnarw. Is your CW tank still going?

Jeremai - Those pics are all from California, and I also read that Corynactis californica grows intertidally in California! I have to go tidepooling there! Too bad you can't really take anything.

-Jamie

yep...still going, pretty much unchanged.

Meh, as long as you're not on a nature preserve it's not really an issue for F&G. They don't wander around patrolling every tidepool in California, especially north of Monterey. I mean, don't go every weekend and take a hundred anemones, but a couple won't get you arrested.

Update you're thread then! Or at least post a pic here. I need to drool over your pretty red anemones (trade?)




Yeah, I've found that out here, too. I've broken the occasional law while tidepooling. :cough: invasive tunicate :cough:
I definitely need to go to California. Hmmm, I wonder if they'll let me take anemones on the airplane. I took a couple shrimp and hermits home from north carolina a couple years ago. That was exciting. C. californica would be much cooler though, as long as they didn't melt. But it's only like a 2 hr flight at most. I definitely have to do that. Actually, I might go to college in Calif. I could just collect then and have a little dorm room coldwater tank! Exciting.

Anyways... back on topic (kind of. Not really actually) My Opalescent nudibranchs have eaten everything in the top tank so far, aside from the Urchin and the snails. They even ate the gooseneck barnacles! What's interesting though, is that they ate the invasive tunicate. If you could get them to eat it in the wild it would would excellent, because apparently it's quite problematic in nature. Next years science research project perhaps?

Oh also, last time I was tidepooling at Manzanita I saw a couple Chinese mitten crabs. I didn't immediately recognize them, but after looking at pics on the internet, that's definitely what I saw. Just like green shore crabs, but with furry claws. I bring it up because they are a really destructive invasive species. They drill into cliffs and make them collapse, and they eat/out compete all sorts of native species. Next time I go back I'm going to try to catch one, or at least get pictures so I have "evidence," because you're supposed to report things like this when you find them. :sigh:

-Jamie

lol, I think taking the anemones on the airplane would be smuggling - probably not a good thing if you get caught. If.

With the nudibranchs, they don't appreciably effect the tunicate population in the wild for a couple reasons: there is tastier fare out there, and the reproduction rate for the tunicates far exceeds that of the nudibranchs. They help, but not enough unfortunately.

Definitely try and catch one of the crabs next time you're out, the Powers that Be would be interested for sure. Invasive species ftl.

So which store has Steves cold water set-up? I would like to check it out. The tank looks sick by the way, where do you go collecting?

Well, I wouldn't want to be smuggling anything. I guess I'll just have to wait for you to buy me one!

Too bad the nudi's can't help that much, and yeah, I'm gonna try to go back asap. unfortunately, i have a busy end of the summer ahead of me, the next big low is the very end of July/beginning of August. I get back from my service trip in mexico the 27th, and I'll get down as soon as i can after that. Rather than just trying to hand-catch one, I might make some sort of trap - that might be a lot easier.




Steve's tank is at a store called Saltwater Fanta-Seas. It's on Sandy Blvd, over near the airport. I've collected a lot of places on the Oregon coast - Netarts bay, Newport, Barview, Manzanita, Short Sands Beach, Arch Cape, and Ecola State Park, are all I can think of right now, but there may be a few others.

-Jamie

I'll see what I can do - they open up at weird times.

You find some strawberries and then we trade

Actually, I might be getting a Strawberry. They have some at foreshores.net, but there is a 250 dollar minimum. Somebody I know (coughjeremaicough) is buying from them though, and might get one for me, if I pay them back of course. I guess I could buy 250 dollars worth of strawberries, but that might be a last resort.

If that works and it reproduces a lot, I may eventually have some to trade. I also, possibly, could get some sooner, but I'm not sure about that. I asked the fishstore, and the guy there said to ask the Oregon Coast Aquarium, because, and i quote, "They have them growing like Aiptasia's." So, we'll see if that works out, but I somehow think a large aquarium would be hesitant to donate anemones to a random teenager who lives three hours away. I might try to contact Steve Weast too. It's not his tank anymore, but I'm sure he could pull some strings. maybe...

And, this is really random, but I had the best dream last night. It was the perfect tidepooling experience, I found a whole bunch of those A. artemisia, a really cool Urticina (that doesn't actually exist) and my favorite anemone of all time - Cribrinopsis olegi. It was amazing. That's kind of depressing, that a dream about finding anemones was the best dream of my life, but, still, it was amazing. Too bad it didn't actually happen. I woke up and I was like, "Aww, I don't actually have any of that stuff."

-Jamie

Haha I know what those dreams are like, I had a dream I was culturing nudibranchs. I just looked up Cribrinopsis olegi, and WOW what a beautiful anemone. Good luck finding one of those. An anemone shrimp to go with it would be cool too.

well, if you get some and they split enough to trade out, lmk. meanwhile, I'll be attempting to talk the lil lady into a $250 present to myself

I know, they're amazing, unfortunately, I think they only live in Russia and maybe Alaska. If I ever am in Alaska though, I'll see if I can find any!



I emailed Steve, unfortunately, since it's not his tank anymore, he couldn't help me, but he gave me the name of the current owner, and I'm going to pm him on PNWMAS sometime soon. If this doesn't work, I guess I'll ask the aquarium. And Steve also told me that the only place he's found them in the US was a deep and difficult dive in extreme northern Washington. So even once I get certified, I don't think I'll be getting any that way.

Would you (or anyone else) be interested in a group buy from foreshores? That way we could get over the minimum without everyone spending so much money.

-Jamie

well, I'll have my fingers crossed that one of the cheaper possibilities comes through for you

but yeah, I'd definitely be interested in a group buy.

Oooh! I think I found another coldwater livestock supplier! Yay!!!

http://m-rep.com/index.htm

Quotes from the site:

"Marine Research and Educational Products' mission statement is to provide quality maricultured and natural marine stock organisms to educational, research, and consulting organizations for the advancement of higher learning, new drug discoveries, and environmental monitoring activities."

"We have the capabilities to provide almost any southern California marine species [like strawberries!!!] that you might want to fulfill your needs. "

I don't know if they'd sell to hobbiests, since it says they provide to educational organizations and such. I don't see why they wouldn't, it doesn't say anything about it on their website. I'm definitely looking into this. Exciting!

-Jamie

Good find. ^

I was thinking of contacting Fore Shores about a group buy, but the logistics of shipping are foreign to me, as I've never participated in a group buy before. Would we be asking them to ship individually, or would they ship everything to one of us who would then distribute further?

I'm a little hesitant to do any shipping to or from Las Vegas for the next couple months, that's why I've waitied on my order.

I've never done one either, so I don't know, but I doubt they'd want to ship individually; we'd probably have to send it to one person, who would then ship everything out. Unfortunately, that would make shipping costs a lot more. They say shipping is free, but they really just add it to the price of the animals. Another problem is that there is a limit on the strawberries (three per order), if the three of us ordered together, we would only get one each. If anyone else wants in, somebody wouldn't get a berry at all. I'm fine with only getting one, but I don't know about you guys, they're supposed to reproduce quickly, at least. I'm good with waiting a little while, I'm not going to be around much until September starts, when does it start cooling of in Las Vegas?

-Jamie

EDIT: I take back what I just said about the limit of three per order. It used to say that under the description of the anemones, but they must have changed it. I'm assuming that since it doesn't say that anymore, there is no longer a limit.

EDIT: DANG IT!!! AMBER KEEPS LOGGING IN ON ME!!! ---DANIEL

If m-rep turns out to be worthwhile, but only works with educational institutions, I can always try the "scientist at U of Maryland" approach.

re foreshores, never hurts to ask about individual shipping - if they add on the price of overnight USPS to everyone, makes it easier. If it comes down to a 1 strawberry each limit, I'm cool with that. Just means I'll be feeding extra September seems like a good time for me as well, DC can get awfully hot and muggy through August.


WOOHOO STRAWBERRIES!

Ok, I'll email foreshores.net tomorrow and get the skinny, then start a new thread so we don't keep muddying up Jamie's.

hey, it's not like anyone else is posting here. But sure, I'm up for a new thread. I'm looking forward to seeing what foreshores says, I hope there isn't a limit, I'd at least like to get a couple.

Random, but, one of my dad's patients (he's a surgeon) is a commercial fisherman, and they offered to take us out on a commercial Hake fishing trip. Apparently they just drag nets around for the fish. I'm not too interested in seeing a bajillion dead hake, but I think the bycatch could be really cool. Maybe I'll even get to take something for my tank! Not getting my hopes up for that, but I'm still excited. I saw a website where people just dragged nets along the bottom and pulled up all sorts of ridiculous and awesome stuff. They even got a rock covered in strawberries! But they pulled up all sorts of cool shrimp, little fish, shrimp, sponges, anemones - stuff you really wouldn't expect to find in a net. I don't know if the trawler will be dragging along the bottom or in open water, and I'm really not expecting to get anything good, but I still can't help getting a little excitied.

-Jamie

I got some more night-time pics!

First, the nudi's. These pics aren't great - the acrylic has some algae on it that won't come off, and it's just hard to manually focus on a moving subject while holding a flashlight!







And a couple anemone pics

something funky has been going on with the ISO (like, it keeps changing and making ugly pictures) and you can kind of see it in this pic. I think it does it more with the longer exposure pics, but I'll have to do more experimenting.



Anemone on the acrylic



I also finally got around fixing the "overflowing fish" problem. All the small fish kept overflowing into the sump, due to the lack of screening over the overflow, and I finally added screening! Unfortunately, It only worked for the top tank, when I tried it on the bottom it caused the water level to rise more during the surges, and the tank would overflow. Not over the sides of the main tank, but in the sump. The level of the acrylic drops when you go into the sump, and if the water level is too high it will pour over the edge there.

I apologize if that didn't make much sense, it's pretty late, and I'm tired, but I wanted to get these pics up.

Oh, and since only the top tank has screening over the overflow, all the small fish had to go up there, so it now has four fish in it. The tidepool still has the greenling, since he's too big to go over the overflow (there is eggcrate over it, just not screening). A few days ago I asked the fishstore to order a couple of Catalina gobies for me, so now I'm going to have six fish (though they are tiny) in the top tank, a volume of about 2.5 gallons. So needless to say, I need to get rid of some fish. I think Jeremai is buying a sculpin, or maybe both (???). The problem is, the sculpins are really cool, and I still want at least one, so I'm going to have to get more after I sell the ones I have. I have to keep the gunnel, because it is amazing, but maybe once it gets bigger it can go in the lower tank. The stickleback is kind of ugly, so I might just let it go, but it's one of the only (maybe the only) "water column swimming" fish I know of that stays small, and I'd like to have something to fill that niche. That's still four or five fish, but they are all under an inch long, other than the gunnel, and the stickleback is around 1.5, but I don't know if I'll be keeping him. I don't know, I guess I'll see how is getting along before any big changes.

-Jamie

Maybe you should start checking who is signed in like I do before you start posting.

Jamie- I love your tank design its so different. Might have to borrow a few ideas for the evolution of my tank. And I think that whether or not you do the group buy I still see strawberries in Daniels future. I wonder how long it will take him to see this. Sorry for the hijack.

Thanks! Sounds like someone might be getting a little present!

more like a trade agreement I get coldwater livestock, she gets new clothes


those night shots are great. good way to highlight just the subject

Perfect! A win-win situation. That's what it's like with me and my mom / sister. "Okay, I'll go to the mall with you for an hour if we get to go to the fishstore afterwards."

yeah, this kind of photography is fun, especially because a lot of the time there isn't a very pretty backround in my tank. I need to get a tripod for my flashlight or something though. The tank is too low for the camera to be on a tripod, so it's on a stack of textbooks. I hold the flashlight in my left hand, and focus with the right (auto-focus doesn't work with my lens extender). Unfortunately, since the camera isn't on a tripod, I can't adjust it's position very much, so a lot of he shots aren't framed very well. It works okay, but there could definitely be some improvements.

-Jamie

I just emailed m-rep, we'll see what they say!

-Jamie

^ same with foreshores.

Well, m-rep can't supply to hobbiests. I asked him if he knew of anywhere that would, but I think that probably won't work out. I guess I'll try the current owner of Steve Weast's tank next.

-Jamie

lol, time for Daniel to step in with his scientist from U of M approach.

DO IT!!! I'm emailing randy (Steve's tanks new owner) as we speak, too. I hope that works out.

-Jamie

Well kids, PM me with what and how much you'd like and we'll go from there as soon as I figure out where to post the new thread, lol.

hehe, I'm so excited.
ygpm.

I'll have to work on that Monday...I think I may have to write a paper on a bunch of articles I haven't read (or found) and don't understand by tomorrow afternoon?

Hooray for unwritten papers with deadlines in less than 24 hours!

Do you really think you'll be able to convince them that a geologist needs strawberries for a research project? lol, this could be fun. Can't wait to see if it works out.

I tried to get some good nudibranch pics this afternoon, I think I got a couple, but they're still on the camera. I'll probably upload them later tonight.

-Jamie