yep...exactly. I'm quickly running out of parts I can accomplish at home though (which is why I'm on here while working...)

It says they do "educational kits" for college classes...and we do have an intro geol lab that discusses coral reefs. But I was really gonna go with "Hi, I teach a couple of labs, I was interested in setting up a strawberry tank" and let them make their own assumptions as to what I taught and where the tank would go (I sure hope none of their workers randomly checks websites like NR...)

It's doubtful - if they knew these threads existed here they'd be more willing to set up some aquaculturing, lol.

It's kind of surprising they don't actually. I mean, they've got all the animals, it seems like there is a reasonable demand, why aren't they selling to hobbiests? Strange.

looks like the company owner is a fairly serious researcher, with a thing for education. He owns several companies - the aquafarm and a marine geophysics!!! (thats geology!!) research lab. Unfavorable opinion of hobbyists maybe?

That's possible. It's too bad, whatever reason he has. It sounds like they have a lot of great stuff. I've read that C. californica is often used in labs because it has really big nematocysts, I wonder if you could get it through something like Carolina biological supply or something. I'll have to look that up.

I got a couple decent nudi pictures, still nothing I'm really happy with, but I'll post what I've got for now.





In the second photo, it is climbing over some branching coralline algae. Interestingly, the gunnel made that little piece of algae into a little tent. He'll hide in it and peek out, or just wrap himself around it. Very fun to watch. Haven't gotten any pics of that behavior yet - he's really hard to photograph!

-Jamie

¡Mas!







-Jamie

He may be legally prohibited, as well - who knows?

Oh, and those nudis are PURDY!!

I know, I think they're my favorite (aesthetically, at least) thing in the tank. Unfortunately, they're evil. I think one tried to eat the other (I've read they may cannibalize). The "victim" is sort of unhappy/shrunken looking, and seems to have lost some of it's cerata, and one rhinophore. There has also been lots of egg laying, but I've read that there is a 30 day pelagic stage, so I'm hoping all the babies get chopped up in the pumps before they can settle, cause I don't want a whole bunch more of these. They also seem to eat absolutely everything, which is annoying. One even tried do eat my stickleback (or at least crawl onto it), but the fish did not approve, and promptly left the area.

I think they'll try to eat the strawberry/proliferating anemone, so I think I'll get rid of them before the goodies get here. Anyone want 'em?

Hey jamie, you know anything about lemonpeel nudibranchs? I saw them at the seaside aquarium last week, it looks like they are successfully keeping them, they were egg spirals on the tank walls. When I was there I didn't even think of asking them what they fed them(d'oh!).

They're sponge feeders. And this is a guess, but i imagine you'd need a lot of sponge for them to eat. This is one of the many unfortunate cases of "easy nudi, difficult food source." Unless you could collect fresh sponges for them every day or something.

I think A. artemisia? Exciting! Actually, I don't know about that ID, there are no verrucae on the column, and I think A. artemisia has verrucae. There also appear to be babies sprouting from the column of some of the larger anemones. They are certainly surrounded by lots of tiny anemones, I think that I see some actually poking out through the column. They're not Epiactis prolifera or E. lisbethae, but maybe related?

And another random pic, kind of dark, but oh well.



-Jamie

wow Jamie! this is one of the coolest tanks ever! can you post an FTS???

Thanks! I don't have a recent one on hand right now, and the lights are off for the night, but I'll see about getting one tomorrow.

Well, I finally remembered I was supposed to be getting an fts, so I took, like, twenty different pics, and they were all terrible, so, no fts yet. I did get some other pics though.

For these I took very similar pics during the day and at night for comparison. Obviously, the night ones are better because you can't see the ugly algae everywhere (the snails have been slacking), but it's interesting to see what the dark is hiding.

The new anemones:
first a top down (day)


day


night


Standard elegant (day)


night




Now I must introduce my newest fish. I had to set up a new tank for these guys, due to their unique requirements, but it's definitely worth it.

You may notice a few differences between these and typical fish. First, they like it very, very hot.


They also aren't great with water. Dry sand is their preferred medium.

And they're actually lizards.

I give you Sandfish!!! Scincus scincus!!!

camouflaged


uncamouflaged (sorry about the giant black line - thermometer cord)


These are a really cool kind of skink. They get their name from their ability to swim through sand, like a fish through water. I saw them at the pet store, and I was like, "WANT!!!" So I researched them, and they don't sound very difficult so I was like, "REALLY WANT!!!" And I asked my parents, and amazingly, they were like, "umm, okay." So now I have sandfish! I'm pretty excited, if you can't tell.

-Jamie

The anemones, not the skink.

The new ones you mean? I like them too. They also have lots of babies all around them, and you know what that means.

Woo hoo! Yeah, the new ones. That night shot is great.

Thanks! I'm going to the beach tomorrow, and will be there all week, so hopefully I'll find some good stuff. I'm also getting rid of a few things. The larger xantho has not been happy. I think it didn't get enough food early on, and doesn't intend to recover, at least in my tank. I have determined that mysis are not good food for many cw animals, xanthos one of them. I just started feeding chopped shrimp, and everything is already much happier. Mysis wasn't doing it for the fish either, especilly the greenling. He's fattening up on shrimp now though.

I'm also getting rid of the nudi's, even though they're pretty, they're a real pain, since they eat anemones and tunicates and such.

I need some shrimp or small crabs for the lower tank, because the greenling is the only thing big enough not to get sucked over the edge, and I need more stuff besides anemones. The top tank is still empty aside from fish, so I am really looking forward to the strawberries.

That reminds me, have you (jeremai) told foreshores we're not ordering till september?

I'm really excited for my camp in the San Juans, I'm getting picked up early (school starts the 26th!) so I'll be with my parents, and that means get to go collecting! exciting... only two weeks away!

-Jamie

Jamie,

Where do you collect from? I linked over here from PNWMAS and your post on the tank. Am thinking of puting a cold water together so am surfing around here reading a few things. Anyway just wondering where most of your stuff comes form. And as for Randy not sure if he would part with anything from his tank. I know Steve wanted to buy the fish back and he said no. He is thinking of puting a bigger tank togehter for the cold water stuff but not sure if it is going to happen. Also not sure if you know this but you can view the tank at SWF on Sandy BLVD in Portland.

I've collected from a lot of different places on the northern Oregon coast, but the top three are Ecola St Park, Barview (north Jetty on Tillamook bay), and Netarts bay. Pretty much anywhere you can find with a rocky shore will have decent tide pools, but those three are the best I have found. Netarts is a little different, it's all eelgrass flats. There are lots of interesting animals there that you wouldn't find in the typical Oregon coast environment. And, yep, I've seen the tank at swf, very nice, though I wish randy would sell me some strawberries!

As far as this tank goes, I have some bad news. We are having our floors redone, and the floor peopl told us that anything alive in the house had to be out, or it would die. That meant the coldwater tank had to be moved. Rather than try to transport the tank as a whole unit, I took everything out, put it in buckets, and brought it to he beach house, where we're staying until the floors are done (next Sunday). This would all be fine, except for one problem. I had intended to bring the chiller, but my dad convinced me I wouldn't need it, since our basement at the beach is always 55-60 degrees. I agreed, and we left it at home. What I didn't realize was that I had also not packed my aerator, in anticipation of using the chiller's pump for oxygenation. So here I am at the beach with several buckets full of coldwater livestock (5 fish, plus all my inverts), and no way to oxygenate the water. I can't do anything about it right now, since it's night time. I've been splashing the water in the buckets to try to keep it oxygenated, but it's going to have to get through the night on it's own. There are no pet stores near here that I know of, but tomorrow I'm breaking out the phonebook to see where the nearest store that can sell me an air pump is. If I can't find one, I might have to let the fish, and maybe some of the other stuff go. There's no way I can keep it all alive for a week without air. please, if anyone has any suggestions, let me know.

-Jamie

Okay, I have some bad news and some good bad news. The bad news is that the sculpins, sadly, did not make it through the night. The good bad news is that the other fish survived the night (that was the good) so I could let them go today (the bad). So I am now fishless, but I still have the anemones, urchins, shrimp, crab, etc. I think all of that stuff will be fine without aeration fr at least a coupe days. My sister is going back to Portland wednesday to pick up her boyfriend and bring him down, so she's going to bring the chiller/pump/etc. so if everyting can make it two more days it'll be fine.

I also have some good news - I found a new critter today. It's some kind of hydroid, maybe Tubularia crocea: http://dnr.metrokc.gov/Wlr/waterres/marine...s/jellyfish.htm
I'll get pictures when I get home for better ID. I think it'll be fine till the chiller comes, as the intertidal cnidarians here seem to be able to take quite a beating.

-Jamie

I told Kenneth from foreshores.net that we wouldn't be ordering till September in the first email I sent him. Apparently all his strawberries are aquacultured, so I guess we'll be at the mercy of his availability when we're ready to order.

Hopefully he'll still have them then!

oh, so thats what biotopes are... i thought it was a some aquarium name like nano cube. lol

Hey Jamie! I just wanted to say, I've been following this thread and I am really impressed by it! I'm going off to college soon and I'm taking my 1 gal pico, you've tempted me to try a coldwater pico...though I'll have to figure out how to cool the water without a chiller.... Oh well, I really envy the tank though . But to put it short you have inspired me haha

Haha, thanks. I'm sure you can find some way to do it. Do you have a minifridge a college? With some pretty easy modification it could become a chiller. Or you could just put it in the fridge and have a VERY coldwater tank.

I went snorkeling at Manzanita today. It was cold and wavy, but the water was surprisingly clear. I couldn't keep my face in the water very long, since it was going numb, and my wetsuit is so floaty I couldn't dive, so it wasn't great, but an interesting experience. I saw one large dungeoness crab, but that was it for life other than algae. I'm hoping to go at the jetties, because it's much less wavy, and without any surf, the water should be really clear. I'm still convincing my parents that i won't get hit by a boat while I'm out there though.

-Jamie

haha yeah I do have a minifridge, but the thing is I need it as a fridge! haha I'm trying a few things with ice in buckets etc, I'm sure I'll figure something out.

Man, that must be freezing, but even in summer its still that cold? Wow.

I think the water was around 55-57 degrees. The seasons don't affect it much, but I think it's a little colder in the winter. I got to go again today, this time at the nehalem jetty. I was outside to south jetty, so the NW swell was partially blocked, but it was still pretty difficult. It was a way better experience than yesterday. I found a huge field of A. elegantissima that was so pink and fluffy and beautiful I thought it was C. californica. I managed to snag two of those anemones before a wave carried me away. I also caught two replacement sculpins, very nice colors, though they can change they're coloration so they'll probably be poop brown in my tank. I also caught, but did not keep, a small kelp crab, because it looked very threatening in a slow-motion, kelpish sort of way. I saw a few tasty looking dungeoness crabs, but didn't attempt to catch them for fear of finger injuries.

The chiller is on it's way, should be here in an hour or so, so everything should be happier, and I can start trying to find new fish for my tank! Unfortunately there are no big low tides coming up, so I might have to get creative. I'm thinking of making some sort of funnel-trap I can just drag along the bottom, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

-Jamie

The chiller is installed and running, current temp, 55 degrees. Without the hiller it as 61, which was fine, but the tank needed the water movement. I also caught a ton of live mysis and amphipods in the surf, so hopefully that will keep everything happy.

WEEE!!!





That funnel trap is an intriguing idea. I thought the temps were colder up there - the water is 55 in winter in San Diego and 60-65 in the summer, that's a lot further south than you but not too far off temperature-wise. Interesting. Damn that Alaskan current.

Sea surface temps for Oregon and Washington!

http://www.osdpd.noaa.gov/PSB/EPS/SST/data/washngtn.cf.gif

For those not familiar with our geography, Oregon starts where the Colombia river enters the ocean, just above 46 degrees. I'm about 40 miles south of there. California starts at the 42 degree mark. So as you can see, where I am the water is around 15 - 16 celsius, which translates to 59 - 61 Fahrenheit. Right off shore isn't shown on the map, but it's generally a little colder.

The anemones are opening, hopefully they can catch some mysis for themselves, because I forgot their frozen food at home. The sculpins are chowing down too, which is excellent. I think I'll build the funnel trap tomorrow; we're going out in the fishing boat on friday, so I'll see what I can dredge up. It's three foot swell and one foot windwaves, which is rediculously small for here. I've never been in the ocean when it was this calm, so I'm very excited.

-Jamie

so I was looking at my hydroid colony close up, and all of a sudden it was like, "SPIDER!" So yeah, I have a hydroid eating sea spider now, we'll see how this goes. I'm not getting rid of it yet, I want to see how fast it eats the hydroids. If they can reproduce faster than it eats them, then it stays. If it's the other way around, it goes. It is a pretty cool critter, even though I'm a total wuss when it comes to spiders. It's about a centimeter wide/long. I forgot my ID book, but I know it's in there, because I remember the picture. I haven't found it on the internet yet, but I'm still looking.

-Jamie

Like a Pycnogonid?

i love your anemones

Hahah oh no not a hydroid! Well I guess sea spiders won't be problematic, right? haha. So I've been testing a few things Jamie and I'm thinking about setting up a 2.5 coldwater (though I live in PA haha) and just somehow insulate the tank (using loose styrofoam right now and its been about 63 all day from 11 AM to 9 PM), and then constantly add/switch in and out frozen water bottles in a compartment or something... I'm really just experimenting for fun now haha, I'll figure something out I hope, but anyway your tank is something to be admired!

Yep.



Thanks!



Well, it's the good kind of hydroid, so I don't really want them eating it! But we'll see how it goes. So it's been 63 without any chilling? Or are you doing that with ice? Are you going to get up every two hours at night to change out the water bottles? Cause they're not gonna last all night. Personally I'd think of something else. I think that could be a *little* difficult. If it's running 63 without chilling though, you could keep all of the stuff I have in my tank with no problems. Seriously though, minifridge, do it. Who needs food when you have a coldwater tank?

-Jamie

hahah yeah who needs food . I was looking up the mini fridge DIY and I heard its really impractical and doesn't lower it too much. What I did though was put cool water in this morning and put 2 bags of ice in this morning and let them basically sit there (they can't last long, the cubes I mean) and I put styrofoam on the bottom and the sides/back. Right now its at around 63 degrees...I actually think if I put styrofoam tightly around it or some kind of insulation, then I'd be set (maybe, minus the livestock pricing too). Like I said I'm just experimenting with it (Its fun and its summer, why not?), but if I set it up this wouldn't be long term, I'd get one of those Ranco temp controllers. I'll let you know how it goes though, for the sake of fun/boredom haha.

you could always try one of those peltier chillers the make for nano cubes. I think they're only like, 100 dollars. But experimenting is always fun. Who knows, maybe you'll stumble onto something awesome! Keep us updated on how it goes.

Yeah, if I was crazy serious about doing it I'd buy one of those no question, but I'm a poor college kid so . I'll def. keep you updated, I mean if I have to put a little frozen thing in the filter or something every so often, why not right? Oh well, I'll see how it goes.

Actually, a lot of coldwater things can be kept at room temp. The Anthopleura anemones I have would be fine, and waratah anemones that you might find in an lfs would also do well. Catalina gobies too. And those are all things you have reasonably easy access to.

If the cold from the ice lasted all day, you might be able to pull it off, but it would be difficult, and if you forgot just once you could be screwed. So maybe do able, but pretty dangerous.

Eek, that's a dangerous thing to say - could you put a disclaimer on that?

Well, assuming your house is 70 degrees or less at room temp, but I guess pumps and stuff would heat it up too. Still, A. elegantissima is found as far south as mexico, and A xanthogrammica gets all the way down to panama - I think it's pretty warm there. I know people have been keeping waratah's at warmer temps. And Catalina's get pretty far south. I would say 70 is the upper limit for them, but people do keep them in warmer tanks. Anything like C. californica or the Urticina's needs a chiller though, imo.

I got to go to Barview again today, and it was amazing, even though it wasn't really low tide. I figured out that the orange striped anemones have really good camouflage, but they're practically everywhere, so basically any rock you pick up will have them on it. Using this technique, I picked only rocks that were very small, and still got lots of anemones, maybe 10 - 15. I also got a few A. elegantissima that were on tiny rocks too. It's really nice not having to peel anything off, I think this way is much less stressful.

-Jamie

yeah, day 3 for my tank, it was about 69 degrees (a bit high) all day and went down to around 67 in the evening (with the windows open). I was thinking about adding a cheap wal mart fan or something and letting that do its thing, maybe even form fitting the styrofoam to the tank (its just loosely on there). I'm sure most coldwater species inhabit fluctuating temps, but I want it as stable as possible, which is hard how I am doing it. Maybe I'll pick a fan up tonight or find one around the house, I'll keep you updated!

-Pat

well I'm going to try to get some kind of insulation tomorrow for the tank (maybe a new tank, I don't trust this one for some reason) and put it on all 3 sides or something. Right now (10:19 PM) its about 63.3 degrees w/o lights or a powerhead. It seems to fluctuate like I said, hotter during the day and cooler at night, which is to be expected. I'm really actually optimistic about this, the lights I'm looking at have a spot to install fans easily which would be a great help for the tank. I still have to find livestock, though once I got it up and running I might be interested in that group buy or Gulf Of Maine!

Fans will definitely help, be ready to top off a lot though, especially in that small of a tank. If you do get in on the group buy, I could through in a few little things from my tank that wouldn't mind temperature swings. The orange lined anemones (Diadumene lineata) are not very sensitive to temperature. Apparently they're an invasive species in hawaii, which is not exactly chilly, so I'm sure they'd be fine. And like I said, A elegantissima tolerate warmer temperatures too.

-Jamie

yeah, I'm not worried about topping off to be honest, I figure I can keep the top off water in the fridge or something to keep it cool enough. I just woke up (10:30 AM EST) and its around 67 degrees. Jamie, that'd be great if you could do that! Maybe some Oregon rock too? I'm not sure what would look best (like your rock) in this little tank, maybe some river rocks or something?

Oh and did you cycle the tank at all? I'm concerned that because it is cooler that it will take a lot longer to produce bacteria colonies, plus the rock is real dense. Any ideas?

-Pat

I kept my rock underwater the whole trip home, and it was kept in various other tanks before this one, so there was very little die-off, meaning not much of a cycle. If you cycle your tank at warmer temperatures, then cool it down once the bacterial colonies are established, you can have a much quicker cycle.

I'm going to try to replace the rock in my tank with just one big "boulder" right in the center, I don't really like the jumbled together look I have right now, so I'd be happy to send a rock or two from my current set up.

-Jamie

Oh nice! It is very kind of you to help me out! I plan on finding some nice insulation at home depot tomorrow, the styrofoam only works so well (its about 68 right now 6:30 PM EST), but it goes down at night. Maybe we can set some sort of shipping deal up! Let me know!

-Pat

Its like 115 here.

depending on the size of the rock, drill it out with a rock drill. works good for weight reduction and gives critters some homes.